Topic: Recycling - Council Meeting

[Muggins]

Ref. Freecycle, I'd love to get on that site, have tried several times but can't for some reason.  Tried again a few weeks ago, could not even find a place to join.

As to the Reclamation Yard idea, Andy, they should make money. i.e. Council picks stuff up - and SELLS it on.  So even with cost of staff, there should be a profit - now they should like that!!

[sbc voice]

Hi Muggins

You join here http://www.freecycle.org/group/UK/South%20West/Swindon - It's slightly longwinded as you have to join the local 'Yahoo' Groups who seem to host the site - but works well once you've joined.

[Jenni Miles]

I agree that more needs to be done about reducing the about of packaging we buy in the first place. It must be reduce, reuse, restore, recycle - in that order! Of course, at lot of this packaging is required because the things we buy travel from so far away, that also needs to be addressed - more stuff, particularly food, grown/produced, sold and used locally. This is something that is difficult for SBC to do alone though, as Justin said, this has to be a matter for government policy. I'm glad Justin and I agree strongly on this (and so can team up on Anne at debates !) .

The swap day is a good idea - this is done twice a year in Germany. After stuff has been collected I would like to see one/some of the empty shops we have in Swindon being used for this purpose. I'm sure the owners would give up the space for free if they didn't have to pay their taxes on them. This could mean the stuff gets moved around a bit though so a more permanent base would be good too.

As for the recycling centre, it's of constant annoyance to me that everytime my hubby walks there with stuff  (we don't own a car and he couldn't drive one anyway - his too blind) he's told he can't bring it in without a car ! He's told to go home and order a cab or ask a friend to take him back up . This generally results in an argument and them finally saying they will take it around themselves. You should be able to walk round. Needing a car to recycle is just plain daft . If you build a new one, please consider this.

Also, can you start recycling Tetra Pak cartons please. At present, I either walk them down to tescos (where I certainly don't shop) or send them back with my mum to Dorset when she visits . Batteries and EE light bulbs also - as these are often binned instead of being disposed of properly.

Finally, can we please stop sending our plastic waste to China  - there are places in the Uk and we should be using them and providing/supporting jobs. It also gives recycling a bad name.

I'll try to pop along to the meeting to bother/annoy help/support you 

[Richard Shaw]

Quote from Jennni Miles

'Also, can you start recycling Tetra Pak cartons please. At present, I either walk them down to tescos (where I certainly don't shop) or send them back with my mum to Dorset when she visits . Batteries and EE light bulbs also - as these are often binned instead of being disposed of properly.'

Jenni,

You can do this at Purton at Hills Recycling.

If they can do it there how come we can't do it in Swindon?  A case for out with SCS and give the job to an organisation that does the business.  Mind you I don't know what we would with all our very bespoke recycling wagons?

And as listed above why can't SCS Waterside match Hills recycling figure of 79%?

[Richard Shaw]

Justin,

Todays two additional questions for your meeting, I hope you are making a note of them all because we do expect answers now that you are engaging with us.

1.  Why does the Council sort at the kerbside and not at the depot?  Does this not prevent the maximisation of recycling by taking in sub contract-work?

2.  Why is the Council still collecting Black Bags from some parts of the town and where is this being carried out?

[Jenni Miles]

Quote from Jennni Miles

You can do this at Purton at Hills Recycling.

If they can do it there how come we can't do it in Swindon?  A case for out with SCS and give the job to an organisation that does the business.  Mind you I don't know what we would with all our very bespoke recycling wagons?

And as listed above why can't SCS Waterside match Hills recycling figure of 79%?

Yes I know, but that's even further away and, like you, I want to know why it's not being done here. I understand that most councils started with glass/metal collections shortly followed by paper and card because the amount councils send to landfill is measured by weight so they went for the heavy stuff first. Now, however, we are on plastics, which are lighter yet bulkier than Tetra Packs, so it would be nice to see them feature on the kerbside list.

People like me will always find a way but this needs to be made easier otherwise other people will not. I also think the stuff should be recycled in the UK as this will provide jobs here (and be greener) and thus will inspire people to participate more. Keep it as easy and local as possible is what I say!

[moley]

Yes I know, but that's even further away and, like you, I want to know why it's not being done here. I understand that most councils started with glass/metal collections shortly followed by paper and card because the amount councils send to landfill is measured by weight so they went for the heavy stuff first. Now, however, we are on plastics, which are lighter yet bulkier than Tetra Packs, so it would be nice to see them feature on the kerbside list.

People like me will always find a way but this needs to be made easier otherwise other people will not. I also think the stuff should be recycled in the UK as this will provide jobs here (and be greener) and thus will inspire people to participate more. Keep it as easy and local as possible is what I say!

May depend... a relative of my father set up an early recycling business, and he made use of the fact that a lot of delivery lorries are empty on their return journeys in his business model.  So although the material his business collected and sent for recycling was shipped quite a long way to actually get recycled, the additional transport costs were quite small..

[Justin Tomlinson]

 I hope you are making a note of them all

Yes, this is why I started this topic. 

I am conscious at the vast majority of Council meetings the public don't generally turn up, which is a shame where we have such an interesting subject, so I thought I would try something different.  I am delighted that we have losts of questions - it is appreciated and I am sure it make for a more productive meeting as there are some excellent questions - that said, you are all still welcome to come along on the night.

What I will do is prior to the meeting I will copy all the questions into a document, so that they can all be answered.  I will get written answers where possible so I can copy and paste them back.

[Justin Tomlinson]

I'll try to pop along to the meeting to bother/annoy help/support you 

That would be great 

[Muggins]

Good on you Justin - taking notice of my 'motto' - start were people are (TS) not where you want them to be (at council meetings)

[Justin Tomlinson]

Right thank you everyone    I really do appreciate this as I think your questions will help add an extra perspective to the meeting as you have all said it as you see it.  This will probably the last time I can check this prior to the meeting.

I have copied and pasted all the questions into a word document which I will now forward to Cllr Foley and the relevant officers ahead of the meeting.  I will be asking for answers to all the questions, and will be handing them to the Cllr's at the meeting to consider whilst they ask questions etc.

I will also report back with all the answers.

Again I do extend the invitation for any of you to come along and attend. 

[Robert Buckland]

Mrs RB here, would second comments as to why no tetrapak recycling> Also why do residents have to pay for plastic bags to put their plastic recycling in - why can:t we use one of the orange boxes and put that out fortnightly. Other councils ask residents to separate their recycling into different carrier bags/bin bags and collect them at zero cost to residents.  Why not ask residents to segregate their own recyclables and use the moneynsaved to provide bags or boxes for this purpose ?

[Richard Shaw]

Robert,

Well said but, other Councils also have one wheelie bin for all recycling which is collected as per the normal rubbish and sorted elsewhere.  This is a far more efficient method than messing about on the roadside with all the inconvenience to other road users.

It is a shame you did not give us a cut off date Justin because I also wanted to ask what Guarantees your Committee can give to the people of Swindon that sufficient organisation is in place to deal with the requirements of an additional 32,000 homes to be built in the next twenty years when the present arrangements are woefully inadequate?

Perhaps it is not too late to add that one?

[komadori]

I though that Tetrapaks, being wax or plastic impregnated paper, are not very easy to recycle. So the economics of recycling them are particularly poor.

[moley]

I though that Tetrapaks, being wax or plastic impregnated paper, are not very easy to recycle. So the economics of recycling them are particularly poor.

Maybe time to take Tetrapak at their word - or challenge them if the economics don't work....

http://www.tetrapakrecycling.co.uk/recyclable.asp

(At the end of the day getting stuff out of landfill is IMO good).

[komadori]

Quoting from the tetrapak website:

The Smith Anderson mill in Fife used to be able to recycle all cartons collected in the UK, but it had to close in 2006 when energy prices made its main paper recycling business uneconomic. This is not uncommon within the paper industry, particularly as waste is a global market. Many materials collected in the UK market are in fact sent overseas to places like India and China as they offer highly competitive prices for the materials.

And the description of the process:

• Baled cartons are dropped into a pulper, similar to a giant domestic food mixer,
• filled with water, and
• pulped for around 20 minutes.
• This breaks down the packaging to produce a grey-brown mixture.
• The aluminium foil and polyethylene are separated from the fibre,
• The fibre is recovered to make new paper products.
• The remaining mix of plastic and aluminium can then be used in furniture, to generate energy or even separated out into pure aluminium and paraffin.

It's the separating out the foil and polyethylene that mires the process economically.

Provided you harness the energy, it's probably more sensible to incinerate them than to recycle.

[Richard Shaw]

At Purton Hills have a special section for recycing the likes of tetrapak, shame SBC can't or won't keep up with the times.

It would appear they prefer to pay the landfill charges

So why is the recycling rate 59% at Water watsit and 79% at Purton.  If I were Mark Edwards I would want to know why?

[Bobby Bingo]

Edwards saving money?
No he takes it from the aged and infirm.

[Piston Broke]

Edwards saving money?
No he takes it from the aged and infirm.

Never a truer word spoken in jest.

[moley]

Quoting from the tetrapak website:

The Smith Anderson mill in Fife used to be able to recycle all cartons collected in the UK, but it had to close in 2006 when energy prices made its main paper recycling business uneconomic. This is not uncommon within the paper industry, particularly as waste is a global market. Many materials collected in the UK market are in fact sent overseas to places like India and China as they offer highly competitive prices for the materials.

And the description of the process:

• Baled cartons are dropped into a pulper, similar to a giant domestic food mixer,
• filled with water, and
• pulped for around 20 minutes.
• This breaks down the packaging to produce a grey-brown mixture.
• The aluminium foil and polyethylene are separated from the fibre,
• The fibre is recovered to make new paper products.
• The remaining mix of plastic and aluminium can then be used in furniture, to generate energy or even separated out into pure aluminium and paraffin.

It's the separating out the foil and polyethylene that mires the process economically.

Provided you harness the energy, it's probably more sensible to incinerate them than to recycle.

So if the council incinerator scheme goes ahead, they should start collecting tetrapaks for that purpose??

The one I would most like to be collected in the boxes which isn't at the moment (as far as I know) is batteries.... when you look at the toxic scum that used to form in the pools around the old Shaw landfill I'm sure that batteries were one of the contributors...

I've heard that some shops will have to start recycling but haven't seen any evidence??