Talkswindon

Politics: Swindon & Westminster => Political News & Debate => Robert Buckland MP - Swindon South => Topic started by: Richard Symonds on June 05, 2013, 04:53:00 PM

Title: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Richard Symonds on June 05, 2013, 04:53:00 PM
Today I received the following email from 38 degrees

Dear Richard,

It’s bad news. Yesterday MPs voted against including a clean energy target in the Energy Bill. [1]

The vote was painfully close - if just 12 MPs had voted differently, we would have won. [2] It was edge-of-the-seat stuff. Yesterday, it felt too close to call. But ultimately, we just didn’t have enough votes.

It’s sad when we lose. Especially when it’s on something as important as protecting our planet. But we fought valiantly and gave it our all, and today we can be proud as well as disappointed.

A year ago, the prospect of so many MPs voting for a clean energy target was inconceivable. Our work, alongside our friends at Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, changed that.

Together we sent tens of thousands of emails and tweets, and made hundreds of phone calls to our MPs. We also ramped up the pressure on wavering MPs with adverts in local newspapers, thousands of leaflets through doors and many face-to-face meetings. It’s thanks to all we did together that so many MPs switched their votes, and turned out yesterday in support.

This is not where we wanted to be today. But there’s still hope that we’ll secure the target we need. The Energy Bill will now go to the House of Lords to be debated again. They have the power to include a clean energy target. They are much more likely to do so because it was such a close vote in the House of Commons.

Sadly, your MP, Robert Buckland, didn’t vote the right way. Whether it was because he voted with his political party, or he wanted to back dirty fossil fuels or for some other reason, he backed George Osborne at the expense of the environment and against the wishes of his voters.

It’s important that we let those who voted against the clean energy target know that we’re disappointed in them. It will show that we’re watching them, so in the future they’ll know there are consequences for their actions. And next time there’s a big climate vote, they’ll be under no doubt from the outset where their voters stand.

Could you email Robert Buckland now? Click here to him know that you’re disappointed in how he voted.
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/mp-voted-against (https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/mp-voted-against)

So, overall, a disappointing result. Sometimes it can be tempting at moments like this to feel like giving up. But we know we did our best. And we know that if we keep working together, there will be chances in the future to turn it around. So let’s take a moment to give ourselves a pat on the back. We'll keep going, because we know it's the right thing to do. And because we know that together we can make a difference.


Thanks for everything you do,

Susannah, Becky, James and the 38 Degrees team

PS. Campaigns like this one don’t cost the earth, but they cost something. 38 Degrees relies entirely on donations from members like you, giving one-off donations or small regular sums of £2 or £3 per week.

Would you consider making a donation? Just 2 or 3 pounds a week makes a massive difference. It only takes a few minutes to set up, and it means that we can pull together massive campaigns like this over the days, weeks, months and years to come. Please click here to get started:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/start-a-direct-debit/?ref=ebillmpagainst (https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/start-a-direct-debit/?ref=ebillmpagainst)

NOTES
[1] BBC: Energy Bill: Government sees off rebellion over 2030 target: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22764955 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22764955)
[2] The Public Whip: Energy Bill - clause 1 - decarbonisation: http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2013-06-04&number=18 (http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2013-06-04&number=18)
 
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Follow 38 Degrees on Facebook and Twitter.

Unsubscribe: If you no longer wish to be part of our movement and receive our emails you can unsubscribe here.

This email was sent to richard@rns.ndo.co.uk.

38 DEGREES Registered Company No. 6642193
 
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Spunkymonkey on June 05, 2013, 05:38:48 PM
Quote
Sadly, your MP, Robert Buckland, didn’t vote the right way. Whether it was because he voted with his political party, or he wanted to back dirty fossil fuels or for some other reason, he backed George Osborne at the expense of the environment and against the wishes of his voters.

How do 38 Degrees know that this was against the wishes of his voters?
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: the gorgon on June 05, 2013, 07:02:35 PM
Well, Swindon is considered to be the average British town and a survey last year said the 9 out of 10 people want more green energy.  So I'd imagine a similar proportion of people in South Swindon would agree.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/23/people-want-more-renewable-energy (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/23/people-want-more-renewable-energy)
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Des Morgan on June 05, 2013, 07:23:21 PM
Quote
Sadly, your MP, Robert Buckland, didn’t vote the right way

How dare he not vote the 'right way' by which I presume you mean your way!! I am delighted Robert voted the way he did.

Quote
It’s important that we let those who voted against the clean energy target know that we’re disappointed in them. It will show that we’re watching them, so in the future they’ll know there are consequences for their actions.

Wow - threats as well. I wonder what the consequences for their actions will be - please do tell all. Are you going to stoop to the same tactics as anti vivisectionists and the supposed animal welfare 'supporters'?

Quote
because we know it's the right thing to do.

Oh that's okay then
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Spunkymonkey on June 05, 2013, 07:50:57 PM
Well, Swindon is considered to be the average British town and a survey last year said the 9 out of 10 people want more green energy.  So I'd imagine a similar proportion of people in South Swindon would agree.

[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/23/people-want-more-renewable-energy[/url] ([url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/23/people-want-more-renewable-energy[/url])


A survey sponsored by Friends of the Earth and Scottish Renewables is similar to research by Whiskas claiming that 9/10 cats prefer Whiskas.

The figures reported in the article don't stack up and if the comments section is representative, it would imply that 9/10 is a huge exaggeration.

The first line of the article states that 9/10 people prefer clean domestic energy compared to expensive imported gas. That isn't quite the same as saying 9/10 want more green energy. If a survey asks a leading question it usually results in the answer required by the sponsor.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Mart on June 05, 2013, 08:26:26 PM
A survey sponsored by Friends of the Earth and Scottish Renewables is similar to research by Whiskas claiming that 9/10 cats prefer Whiskas.

Actually it's 8 out of 10. The other 2 prefer Lesley Judd.

http://www.maxilyrics.com/half-man-half-biscuit-99%25-of-gargoyles-look-like-bob-todd-lyrics-a1c8.html (http://www.maxilyrics.com/half-man-half-biscuit-99%25-of-gargoyles-look-like-bob-todd-lyrics-a1c8.html)

I like Green Energy, I like cheap energy more. That's because I have to pay for the energy I use and I have a finite income, whereas, the energy companies have unlimited options for raising bills.

I do have a nice green supplier, which is as far as I can go.

My issue with the green buggers is that they is far too trendy and right on. I'd embrace it more if it was being peddled by geezers smoking disreputable roll-ups and gunge under their finger nails.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Spunkymonkey on June 05, 2013, 09:11:00 PM
What exactly is clean energy? This article suggests that solar panels aren't so green after all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-grayson/eco-etiquette-how-green-a_b_554717.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-grayson/eco-etiquette-how-green-a_b_554717.html)

Take away the subsidises that we all pay for through taxes and they aren't so cheap either. We will end up going down the nuclear route eventually.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Mart on June 05, 2013, 09:21:59 PM
We will end up going down the nuclear route eventually.

Bit extreme, can't we just compare prices at Moneysupermarket?

Worked for me.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Spunkymonkey on June 05, 2013, 09:24:34 PM
Bit extreme, can't we just compare prices at Moneysupermarket?

Or wear a sweater.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Simon on June 05, 2013, 09:44:30 PM
My issue with the green buggers is that they is far too trendy and right on. I'd embrace it more if it was being peddled by geezers smoking disreputable roll-ups and gunge under their finger nails.

I smoke rollups. Not sure how I'd need to roll them in order to make them suitably disreputable though  :o

Take away the subsidises that we all pay for through taxes and they aren't so cheap either. We will end up going down the nuclear route eventually.

Take away the subsidies that nuclear needs in order to be financially viable and it's not so cheap either. And the fuel is still going to run out eventually. And we (and our descendents for longer than there has been homo sapiens) still have yet to work out what to do with the waste products

Quote
It’s important that we let those who voted against the clean energy target know that we’re disappointed in them. It will show that we’re watching them, so in the future they’ll know there are consequences for their actions.

Wow - threats as well. I wonder what the consequences for their actions will be - please do tell all. Are you going to stoop to the same tactics as anti vivisectionists and the supposed animal welfare 'supporters'?

Des, you do yourself no favours by saying things like that. You seem like a very rational and intelligent person most of the time. But this is not one of those times.

I intend to carry out acts of "domestic terrorism" such as
* Telling my MP that I'm not happy with the way he voted, and that he won't get my vote in the next general unless he bucks his ideas up
* Telling anyone who'll listen that I'm not happy with the way my MP has represented me, and that they should think hard about whether to re-elect him when the time comes.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: I Could Do That on June 06, 2013, 03:21:32 AM
I'll be joining the same malicia group as Simon and carrying out identical acts of terrorism
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Geoff Reid on June 06, 2013, 04:40:08 AM

I didn't get involved with this particular action by 38 Degrees because I lacked sufficient knowledge of the bill to justify my asking Robert to go one way or the other.

As far as the campaign rhetoric goes I don't see it as being any better/worse than that pumped out by any of the political parties and I'd support 38 Degrees right to campaign/lobby in any legal way they see fit.

As we've already noted, each of us is free to support, or not, each of their actions as and when we see fit.  This time I chose not to, although that doesn't neccessarily mean that I wouldn't have supported if I'd had more time and better knowledge of the subject.


**************************************************
Posted from Galaxy Note using Tapatalk 2 App.

Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Muggins on June 06, 2013, 08:52:42 AM
I joined in, not because I know the techno bits, but because it's logical, that Nuclear is NOT the way to go, seeing as how we don't know what to do with what's left over and have anywhere really safe to store it until we do. 

Many are agreeing with the solar way and I know this simply because a lot more are being installed on roofs - can't hide your thinking once you've done that.  I predict that it won't be long before people will expect to have a panel or ten on their newly built homes. 

I predict that it won't be too long before Councils find the funds to install them on their housing stock. Not long after they get their thinking caps on.

I predict wind turbines will become less intrusive on the landscape and also more efficient for home or estate instalment.

This must be viable or businesses would not be springing up all over the place. 

Why would anyone be scared of this progress? 

And now the news that they are going to store nuclear waster at Hinkley point - that's updown wind from here, direct. Anything that goes off there, comes this way!
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Alex on June 06, 2013, 01:24:47 PM
I had this response form Robert as I had also asked him to vote for the amendment. I am disappointed that he didn't .

Dear .........
               
Many thanks for your email about the Energy Bill and Tim Yeo MP’s amendment for a 2030 decarbonisation target.
 
As you may be aware, I have paid a close interest in this Bill. I sat on the Public Bill Committee for the Energy Bill, I have met organisations like Friends of the Earth to hear their concerns and I joined a delegation of Conservative MPs to meet the Prime Minister earlier this year to press the case for a low-carbon economy and the huge investment potential it bodes. It is vital that we continue to reduce our carbon emissions in the UK, in line with our international commitments, and I support the spread of renewable technology. I am also proud that Swindon plays host to a number of renewable energy companies and welcome projects like the solar farm in Wroughton.
 
However, I voted against Tim Yeo MP’s amendment on Tuesday 4th June. I wholeheartedly support the aspiration behind his amendment, for a decarbonisation target range to be set. Nevertheless, the details behind Mr Yeo’s amendment were sadly lacking.
 
There were no details as to how we could get from 2013 to 2030 and achieve such a target with current technologies. For instance, the future of new nuclear in the UK is highly uncertain and I am not confident that we can rely on it for our future energy needs. In other areas, highly promising renewable technologies like offshore wind unfortunately remain too expensive for widespread deployment. New solutions like Carbon Capture and Storage are interesting and may radically reduce the carbon emissions of fossil fuels like coal and gas but they are not yet commercially viable. In summary, it is not clear how we would go about meeting this decarbonisation target range with the current energy mix and technologies. No responsible Government would commit industries and consumers to this target without knowing how to achieve it.
 
Nonetheless, I still wholeheartedly support the principles behind a decarbonisation target range. I want the UK to transition to a low-carbon economy, both because of the environmental imperatives of climate change and because of the potential boons of a new industrial renaissance. That is why I was pleased that the Government has still committed to setting a decarbonisation target and has laid its own amendment to the Energy Bill to enable a legally binding decarbonisation target for the electricity sector to be set in 2016. It has been decided to set the target in 2016, once the Climate Change Committee has provided advice in line with the fifth Carbon Budget which covers the corresponding period. This will provide the Climate Change Committee with the time to methodically analyse how exactly we can go about decarbonising our economy to meet the target.
 
It was my intention to speak in the debate on Tuesday 4th June to seek the Minister’s reassurance that the Government remains fully committed to setting the decarbonisation target in 2016, but I am afraid that the debate was well attended and I did not get the chance to do so. Notwithstanding this, I have already discussed the matter with Ministers at length and have been reassured before that a target range will be set in place. I will continue to keep a watchful eye on this Bill as it goes to the House of Lords.
 
While I do appreciate that my vote on this amendment may have come as a disappointment to you, I hope that I have explained why I did so and reassured you that I remain committed to a low-carbon future.
 
Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.
 
Yours sincerely,
Robert Buckland MP
 
 
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Geoff Reid on June 06, 2013, 03:05:52 PM

Thanks Alex :)

Did any North Swindon members/readers contact & receive a response from Justin Tomlinson?
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: the gorgon on June 06, 2013, 06:21:01 PM
Having read the response I must say his decision, on the face of it, seems logical in the current economic climate.   
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Mart on June 06, 2013, 06:53:31 PM
I treated his response the same way as my correspondence is treated, it's in my in-tray and I'll get someone to send out a standard acknowledgment, ooh, any day now.

Energy is good stuff but no matter what it's costing anyone, anywhere and anytime I can only afford what I can afford.

Hardly inspiring as a planet saving mantra, but dems de facts.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Simon on June 06, 2013, 07:51:32 PM
Quote from: Robert Buckland, MP for South Swindon (Con)
However, I voted against Tim Yeo MP’s amendment on Tuesday 4th June. I wholeheartedly support the aspiration behind his amendment, for a decarbonisation target range to be set. Nevertheless, the details behind Mr Yeo’s amendment were sadly lacking.
 
There were no details as to how we could get from 2013 to 2030 and achieve such a target with current technologies.


 :bash: Zero Carbon Britain 2030 report (http://www.zcb2030.org/). I sent him a link to it ages ago, and he responded (http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/topic,6525.msg44043.html#msg44043) so I guess he must have read at least some of it. Or has he since forgotten reading it?
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Des Morgan on June 07, 2013, 08:47:28 AM
Quote
because it's logical, that Nuclear is NOT the way to go, seeing as how we don't know what to do with what's left over and have anywhere really safe to store it until we do


Actually it is logical to 'go nuclear' if we want future energy to be widely and readily available.

Quote
I predict that it won't be too long before Councils find the funds to install them on their housing stock. Not long after they get their thinking caps on.


Muggins - they have already started on other Council owned buildings and allegeldy are in receipt of substantial sums by way of the Feed In Tariff.

Quote
I predict wind turbines will become less intrusive on the landscape and also more efficient for home or estate instalment.

Let's wait and see if 'Mystic muggins' predictions come true lol :coolsmiley:



Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Muggins on June 07, 2013, 08:56:01 AM
Des "Let's wait and see if 'Mystic muggins' predictions come true lol :coolsmiley:"

Ye may mock, mystic I am not, but told that I have more than my fair share of perception and intuition.
I'm surprised you did not have anything to say about these two points.

"Why would anyone be scared of this progress? 

And now the news that they are going to store nuclear waster at Hinkley point - that's updown wind from here, direct. Anything that goes off there, comes this way!"
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Des Morgan on June 07, 2013, 09:30:39 AM
Quote
I have more than my fair share of perception and intuition

Can't argue with these insights
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: boothill on June 07, 2013, 02:06:12 PM
                                                    Des "Let's wait and see if 'Mystic muggins' predictions come true lol "


                                                                     'ere Mystic...any chance of tomorrow's lottery numbers gal ?
Title: Re: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Geoff Reid on June 07, 2013, 03:39:16 PM
                                                    Des "Let's wait and see if 'Mystic muggins' predictions come true lol "


                                                                     'ere Mystic...any chance of tomorrow's lottery numbers gal ?

Mystic Geoff says:

"There will be six of them.......


**************************************************
Posted from Galaxy Note using Tapatalk 2 App.

Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Mart on June 07, 2013, 08:30:08 PM
There will be six of them.......

That's helpful.

Don't blame me if you wake up with gills and an appetite for flies tomorrow.

The smart move would to be to have a long hard look at nuclear waste, something that lairy must have a practical use if someone is just clever enough to work it out. It's so sort of, well, opinionated, there must be something you can do with it apart from bloody bury it. It ain't cat poo.

I suggest they start experimenting a long way away, like Slough f'rinstance.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: DavidPayne on June 07, 2013, 08:41:08 PM
Today I received the following email from 38 degrees

Dear Richard,

It’s bad news. Yesterday MPs voted against including a clean energy target in the Energy Bill. [1]

Sadly, your MP, Robert Buckland, didn’t vote the right way. Whether it was because he voted with his political party, or he wanted to back dirty fossil fuels or for some other reason, he backed George Osborne at the expense of the environment and against the wishes of his voters.

I have no hesitation in stating publicly that I believe Robert Buckland is not a man to be relied upon by his constituents, knowing that his team may well trawl this site and being fully prepared to meet him on any platform if he feels sufficiently aggrieved at the suggestion. Like Anne Snelgrove, he appears a Party apparatchik and this is of course, his Achilles heel since he cannot both fulfill his personal ambitions through slavish adherence to the Party perspective and represent the community who gave him Office.

After a frustrating two years of future-less exchange, I challenged him to advise me on how I should present a formal complaint against him - I hope it will come as sobering shock to most of you that no such provision exists in our political system. At the very first hurdle, that most elemental of relationships with The State, our feeble democracy falls, leaving any who are rightly aggrieved with no avenue of redress save for the protestations of our Free(ish) Press.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Jarvis on June 08, 2013, 06:49:14 AM
I have no hesitation in stating publicly that I believe Robert Buckland is not a man to be relied upon by his constituents, knowing that his team may well trawl this site and being fully prepared to meet him on any platform if he feels sufficiently aggrieved at the suggestion. Like Anne Snelgrove, he appears a Party apparatchik and this is of course, his Achilles heel since he cannot both fulfill his personal ambitions through slavish adherence to the Party perspective and represent the community who gave him Office

But I bet he ends up wearing the robes of a top judge and sitting in the house of lords.  :fish:
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Spunkymonkey on June 08, 2013, 11:22:43 AM
After a frustrating two years of future-less exchange, I challenged him to advise me on how I should present a formal complaint against him - I hope it will come as sobering shock to most of you that no such provision exists in our political system.

Why is this a sobering shock? If the electorate could complain every time that their MP didn't vote the way they liked, we might as well have a referendum on every topic and do away with MPs altogether.

Robert Buckland is not in Parliament to represent you, he is there to represent us. How can you (or he) know how the electorate wanted him to vote on this occasion?

With regards to complaints procedure. If your MP does something illegal then report him to the police. If he simply does something that you don't agree with or doesn't reply to your letters, then don't vote for him next time.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: DavidPayne on June 08, 2013, 11:41:50 AM
After a frustrating two years of future-less exchange, I challenged him to advise me on how I should present a formal complaint against him - I hope it will come as sobering shock to most of you that no such provision exists in our political system.

Why is this a sobering shock? If the electorate could complain every time that their MP didn't vote the way they liked, we might as well have a referendum on every topic and do away with MPs altogether.

Robert Buckland is not in Parliament to represent you, he is there to represent us. How can you (or he) know how the electorate wanted him to vote on this occasion?

With regards to complaints procedure. If your MP does something illegal then report him to the police. If he simply does something that you don't agree with or doesn't reply to your letters, then don't vote for him next time.

Of course, nowhere in my post did I claim that my complaint against him was to do with the way he votes.

Had you taken the slightest care to assimilate with what I actually wrote, you wouldn't litter this site with irrelevant rant.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Spunkymonkey on June 08, 2013, 12:06:00 PM
Of course, nowhere in my post did I claim that my complaint against him was to do with the way he votes.

Had you taken the slightest care to assimilate with what I actually wrote, you wouldn't litter this site with irrelevant rant.

As you have not stated what your complaint with Robert Buckland is, the most irrelevant post on this thread is surely yours.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Muggins on June 08, 2013, 04:09:23 PM
DavidP: After a frustrating two years of future-less exchange, I challenged him to advise me on how I should present a formal complaint against him - I hope it will come as sobering shock to most of you that no such provision exists in our political system.

Oh I bet there is, but never ask the person you are going to complain about where you should go to do it! Before the electorate elected them, his party selected them. Try there.

And if it's that bad you can't vote for him, don't,  if you really are offended, make sure you let others know so they know what they are voting for.

The imp on my shoulder is saying, tell the opposition so they can use it against them.  Light blue touch paper and stand well back.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: DavidPayne on June 08, 2013, 04:44:26 PM
DavidP: After a frustrating two years of future-less exchange, I challenged him to advise me on how I should present a formal complaint against him - I hope it will come as sobering shock to most of you that no such provision exists in our political system.

Oh I bet there is, but never ask the person you are going to complain about where you should go to do it! Before the electorate elected them, his party selected them. Try there.

Yes I thought of that but it's not an official complaints channel and grumbling to his Party Office, well 'pissing up a rope' came to mind.

Quote
And if it's that bad you can't vote for him, don't,  if you really are offended, make sure you let others know so they know what they are voting for.

I do

Quote
The imp on my shoulder is saying, tell the opposition so they can use it against them.  Light blue touch paper and stand well back.

Now that's on the button! Thanks.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Des Morgan on June 08, 2013, 07:04:11 PM
Quote
If the electorate could complain every time that their MP didn't vote the way they liked, we might as well have a referendum on every topic and do away with MPs altogether.


Mmm - isn't that what David cameron promised the elctorate and confirmed in the Co-alition agreement. This was the promise made by the Conservatives in 2010.

Quote
Our People Power manifesto, will give local people the direct power to recall MPs found guilty of wrongdoing without having to wait for a General Election.

Conservatives will empower local people to cast a vote of no confidence in their elected representative and bring an end to the concept of the ‘safe seat’.

This proposal will make MPs directly answerable to their constituents over the whole of a Parliament – not just every five years.

How the Right to Recall process will work:

The recall process will begin with the filing of a notice-of-intent-to-recall petition, to be signed by at least 100 constituents and submitted to the local returning officer

Once registered, a recall petition can be circulated within the constituency, petitions for the recall of MPs must accumulate signatures equal to 10 per cent of the local electorate

Any petition that crosses the signature threshold within 90 days would trigger a by-election

Shadow Leader of the House Sir George Young said:

“The last five years has been disastrous for Parliament and trust in politics has reached an all-time low. People want change and politicians must become more directly accountable for their actions.

“We have proposed a power of recall that will allow constituents to remove their MP mid-term without having to wait for a general election. Giving local people the power to cast a vote of no confidence in their elected representative will bring an end to the concept of the 'safe seat' and make MPs directly answerable to their constituents over the whole of a Parliament, not just every five years.

“Recall will be triggered by a completely restructured Committee on Standards and Privileges that, for the first time in Parliament’s history, will contain non-parliamentary members – as I recommended to the Committee on Standards in Public Life last July.

“Our proposals will help to rebuild trust in Parliament and put more power where it belongs – in the hands of the people”.
[/color]

But of course no such system has been set up despite David Cameron's promise - this is so typical of the Prime Minister and represents the worst of all politicians  - where BROKEN PROMISES are simply the order of the day

Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Gordon Smith on January 05, 2014, 04:51:21 PM
I think Mr Buckland also voted against the Recall act. That Cameron promised.

We know why don't we

Mr Buckland when presenting hinself for a candidate for Swindon was FOR a referendum on EU membership. Remember Cameron promised us the referendum.

Cameron changed his mind when somehow got to be P.M. Mr Buckland then  also changed his mind and was seen on the steps of Westminster saying we do not need a referendum, then later was interveiwed on TV and was firmly against a referendum.   

Cameron, after being frightened by UKIP, then said again we will have a referendum IF I GET RE ELECTED ( fat chance). I think we have yet to here Mr B;s official current change of position.

I also remember Mr Blair continually changed his stance on everything. 

But RELUCTANTLY I WILL have to accept the propsed 11% pay rise is what the man said.  Head in the clouds and still not listening is youg Robert.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Terry Reynolds on January 05, 2014, 08:33:51 PM
to be fair to Cameron, he has put the vote in motion, but it is being stopped by the other two parties who are against it. we know how they stand on the issue, they wont even let their voters have a say in the matter..
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Spunkymonkey on July 20, 2014, 11:36:40 AM
Robert Buckland is in the news again for the wrong reasons:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2698664/New-law-chief-guilty-misconduct-race-hate-trial-didn-t-tell-PM-Professional-misconduct-illicitly-getting-case-notes-involving-school-governor.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2698664/New-law-chief-guilty-misconduct-race-hate-trial-didn-t-tell-PM-Professional-misconduct-illicitly-getting-case-notes-involving-school-governor.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Tobes on July 20, 2014, 01:02:10 PM
I rather think this is a mixture of something being 'mailed' out of all proportion.

Quote
Mr Buckland’s school investigation never concluded because Mrs Webster launched a civil action against the school for failing to protect her son. She later lost. Last night Mr Buckland, a married father of twins, confessed to The Mail on Sunday that he had failed to notify the Cabinet Office of the misdemeanour. He said: ‘It’s a matter of public record. It’s been recorded by the Bar Standards Board. It happened three years ago.

‘It was a genuine attempt by me to establish facts at the school. This is the only time I have had any issue with the Bar Standards Board. I genuinely thought I was taking the right action for the school. I regret it ended up in the position it did.’
Mr Buckland tried to say the matter was ‘spent’ because more than two years had passed but last night the Bar Standards Board said disciplinary findings stay on a barrister’s disciplinary record indefinitely.

Mr Shellard did not return calls made by The Mail on Sunday.
Last night, a spokesman for the Solicitor General’s office said: ‘This finding was removed from the Bar records after two years and therefore Mr Buckland was not required to declare it upon appointment as Solicitor General.”

A technical infringement which doesn;t seem to have prevented justice being done - and a slap on the wrist which hasn't impinged upon his career in any other way. Minor stuff.

A misjudgement no doubt, but hardly earth shattering - otherwise the sanctions at the time would have been much greater.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Geoff Reid on July 20, 2014, 04:44:13 PM
Old news, but if the Daily Fail is dredging I'll get my spade out as well...

Didn't Harriet Wossname use the 'Technical Infringement' excuse for driving the wrong way down a one-way street and the then Home Secretary Jacqui Wosserface use the same for something or other and, as if the first two weren't good enough examples, I seem to recall a Labour peer using the same defence for employing an illegal immigrant.

I dislike the term 'Technical Infringement'.  An act is lawful or unlawful and ignorance, as we are oft sternly reminded, is no excuse.  In Bob's case he could hardly cite ignorance as mitigation :)
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Spunkymonkey on July 20, 2014, 05:52:29 PM
Quote
Mr Buckland tried to say the matter was ‘spent’ because more than two years had passed but last night the Bar Standards Board said disciplinary findings stay on a barrister’s disciplinary record indefinitely.

Last night, a spokesman for the Solicitor General’s office said: ‘This finding was removed from the Bar records after two years and therefore Mr Buckland was not required to declare it upon appointment as Solicitor General.”

A bit worrying that the Bar Standards Board and the Solicitor General's office contradict each other on this matter.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Tobes on July 20, 2014, 06:55:19 PM
Do they?

There are things which would stay on your record permanently if you had broken the law in some way - but after they were 'spent' you would not necessarily be obliged to declare them, would you?

Smacks more of our old friend confirmation bias to me. If people are already disposed to think he's some kind of evil tory mastermind, I guess this proves something to them. For me, whilst he's proven capable of making a mistake, I'm not exactly worried that it effects his ability to perform his role. In fact, if anything, I would have thought it made him more likely to be scrupulous in applying himself with even greater care. Yes, he's made an error - and one serious enough to involve verbal and written sanction, but not one judged by his peers to have seriously effected his career (and believe you me, the Law Soc and bar Standards absolutely throw the book at people if they've made a serious transgression).

It appears the info he was looking at was acquired for genuine purposes, even if not according to the proper procedure. That it has been, as Geoff put it 'dredged' out now seems more like political opportunism than a revelation inspiring serious public concern. Afterall, this has all been on the public record anyway...

Nah, can't get too excited about this.Its a bit like finding out that the Minister for Transport had once been fined for speeding or the President of the USA had smoked a Jazz Cigarette. If they were unapologetic or had actively tried to deny what they'd done, fair dos, THAT would be the issue. But I doubt there's anyone performing any complicated job who doesn't make the ocassional cock-up. The question is how serious it was and what their attitude is to it, THATS the important insight by which we ought to judge them in my view...
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Spunkymonkey on July 20, 2014, 08:45:10 PM
Smacks more of our old friend confirmation bias to me. If people are already disposed to think he's some kind of evil tory mastermind, I guess this proves something to them.

C'mon, you can't just play the confirmation bias card every time someone voices a different opinion to yours. My post was intended to bring the Daily Mail article to people's attention. I didn't pass judgement and certainly wasn't influenced by confirmation bias as I tend to agree with you that this is not a big deal.

However, given that confirmation bias plays a huge part in electing our MP's why shouldn't it play a part in judging their performance in office. Isn't that what party politics is? Bigging up your friends and smearing the opposition. Since when has the truth mattered in politics. Electing an MP is a popularity contest based entirely on confirmation bias.

Quote
That it has been, as Geoff put it 'dredged' out now seems more like political opportunism than a revelation inspiring serious public concern. Afterall, this has all been on the public record anyway...

Of course it's political opportunism in the same way that virtually every word that leaves a politician's mouth is. I don't think it is wrong of the Daily Mail to 'dredge' it up now though. It might be old news, but until last week Robert Buckland was pretty much unknown outside of Swindon. He has just been promoted to the cabinet, so his past performance (good and bad) is relevant to the here and now. 

Quote
It appears the info he was looking at was acquired for genuine purposes, even if not according to the proper procedure.

Were his motives genuine or was he seeking an advantage? Was he seeking the truth, justice or protecting the school for which he was a governor? Was he helping the victim or seeking to protect the school? Was it an innocent breach or a conflict of interest? I will let your confirmation bias decide. Personally, I am prepared to give him the benefit of doubt.

Quote
The question is how serious it was and what their attitude is to it, THATS the important insight by which we ought to judge them in my view...

It was potentially extremely serious given that the mother of the victim tried to sue the school. Interfering in an attempted murder (can hitting someone over the head in a premeditated attack be anything else) isn't serious? Covering up racism isn't serious?

I am not suggesting that he did either of these things, but it is fair for the electorate to make up their own minds and decide whether he is fit to represent them.

Personally, I would probably vote for him on the basis that no one is perfect and I don't see the opposition putting forward a better candidate. Does that make me a fair person or a tory lover suffering from confirmation bias? Does it matter?
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Richard Symonds on July 20, 2014, 09:43:02 PM
Surely the reason question must be how can the Solicitor General impose standards and rules if he has broken them himself, however innocently?
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Tobes on July 20, 2014, 11:39:08 PM
Like I said, we would then have to preclude a Minister for Transport for having had a speeding ticket...

I think its a question of degree, intent and honesty. As well as being historical rather than contemporary.

This was not a huge indiscretion - though it was recognised at the time (three years ago!), reported, he was admonished, his intentions at the time seemed legitimate if misguided, he got caught, it was reported on the public record at the time, he's been frank about it.

Don't see the problem, tbh.  :-\

I don't expect my politicians to be perfect or beyond reproach, as long as they don't try to hide or deny their failings - and most important of all, they learn from them.

To quote Shakespeare;

The jury, passing on the prisoner's life,
May in the sworn twelve have a thief or two
Guiltier than him they try.


The canker at the heart of politics is hidden misdemeanour's and dishonesty, not human failing.

Robert may have made a mistake, but it's not one I see which would prevent him from doing his job. In fact, it might actually make him better at doing it if he has the perspective and the humility which it ought have taught him.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Phil Chitty on July 21, 2014, 12:33:02 PM
Don't see the problem, tbh.  :-\

I don't expect my politicians to be perfect or beyond reproach, as long as they don't try to hide or deny their failings - and most important of all, they learn from them.

Totally agree Tobes.

Buckland's motives in doing what he did appear to be totally honourable - trying as a school governor to get to the bottom of what was a terrible situation.

I note Opportunity Annie sounding off about it in the Adver today - is there no bandwagon she won't jump on.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Muggins on July 21, 2014, 01:15:29 PM
I'm inclined to agree with Tobes, we all make mistakes or rather not follow  through, but its what we learn from that mistake - sometimes it takes that to keep people really on their toes.

None the less, the family of the boy concerned seems very upset about his appointment, the question is, was it them that stood up first or opposition politicians?

No doubt they were the first people the press called for a quote.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Smiler on July 21, 2014, 02:43:02 PM
Buckland's motives in doing what he did appear to be totally honourable - trying as a school governor to get to the bottom of what was a terrible situation.

I note Opportunity Annie sounding off about it in the Adver today - is there no bandwagon she won't jump on.

So did the Bar Standards Council get it wrong then?

Good on Anne for scrutinising Swindon politicians' behaviour...someone has to do it. 



Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Terry Reynolds on July 21, 2014, 03:58:33 PM
when mandleson had to resign twice from the gov, over fraud deals etc, he was then given the uk top job in the EU, did Annie make any noises about that??
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Tobes on July 21, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
... and as one of the commentards on the Adver site has pointed out (accurately, for once!) what Robert did was transcend a professional rule, NOT the law.

That important detail is something which a lot of people seem to be missing...  :-\

Quote
Good on Anne for scrutinising Swindon politicians' behaviour...someone has to do it.

Nothing wrong with that - but oh sweet irony - as Terry has just pointed out, a moral stance is something which is applied evenly, NOT according to who's your friend or your political opponent.

I wonder what she makes of old buddy Tony Blair being Middle Eastern 'Peace Envoy' despite his record on Iraq? Is that role more or less important that Solicitor General? Is his credibility in that role more or less likely to be influenced by his past mistakes?

You tell me Anne  :angel:

Hypocrisy is far worse than making a mistake, in my book. Anne and her supporters would be well minded to remember that.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Des Morgan on July 21, 2014, 06:21:28 PM
Quote
Surely the reason question must be how can the Solicitor General impose standards and rules if he has broken them himself, however innocently?

mmm, interesting how when a policeman 'broke the rules of PACE' - rules designed to protect individuals from improper behaviour by the police, the man was almost canonised. Robert Buckland breaks a rule - a rule made by his professional body as opposed to Parliament and some people want his head.

Robert Buckland broke the rules and he was admonished for doing so - I don't recollect Mrs Webster raising the roof when Robert Buckland was nominated as the Conservative Candidate or when he was elected to Parliament. Both occasions presented her with an opportunity to 'make her case' - I appreciate her anger but not her timing.

As for whether Mr Buckland can impose standards and rules - yes he can
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Phil Chitty on July 21, 2014, 06:22:25 PM

Hypocrisy is far worse than making a mistake, in my book. Anne and her supporters would be well minded to remember that.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Tobes on July 21, 2014, 06:46:39 PM
Quote
C'mon, you can't just play the confirmation bias card every time someone voices a different opinion to yours. My post was intended to bring the Daily Mail article to people's attention. I didn't pass judgement and certainly wasn't influenced by confirmation bias as I tend to agree with you that this is not a big deal.

I wasn't basing that observation on your comments - more the churning wheels of the political bandwaggon and the comments made by the likes of Snelgrove et al.  :wink:

... and I try to use the term only when a group alight on an issue and use it to 'prove' something or besmirch someone in an overtly non-objective way. Again, I think some of the commentary from certain corners hasn't looked at the issue 'in the round'. TS is actually proving to be one of the few places in which the debate is proving to be very much more open - despite it supposedly being a hot-bed of lefties  ::)

Quote
I don't recollect Mrs Webster raising the roof when Robert Buckland was nominated as the Conservative Candidate or when he was elected to Parliament. Both occasions presented her with an opportunity to 'make her case' - I appreciate her anger but not her timing.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: the gorgon on July 21, 2014, 07:12:27 PM
Surely the reason question must be how can the Solicitor General impose standards and rules if he has broken them himself, however innocently?

If he was considered to be still fit to act as a solicitor and part-time judge and wasn't fined or suspended you can say that this equivalent to or even less serious than points on a driving license for speeding (or maybe a police caution). 

Much like a points on a driving license (expire after 4 years) this "conviction" was spent after 2 years or in other words in 2013. According to BBC Points West it has now been removed from the Inns of Court website so I guess it was still listed there due to human error.  Because of this he was under no obligation to inform the PM and if he was asked about it he could truthfully he has no "conviction".
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Geoff Reid on July 23, 2014, 01:08:24 AM

I'm not smelling any scandal here - Bob did what he did and has already taken his professional lumps for it and, as has already been pointed out, the experience might make him fitter for his new role.

I obviously don't know the motives behind his actions,  but I am interested in knowing how this past misdemeanor has been exhumed and reanimated.

Who is grinding axes and pumping the bellows?
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Tobes on July 23, 2014, 07:17:14 AM
Quote
Who is grinding axes and pumping the bellows?

I suspect its a combination of factors.

Some of the Adver comments have claimed that the victim's mother lost a civil case against the school claiming compensation (I am not aware of the details of that). Its certainly obvious that she's been has been extensively quoted in many if not all the articles I've read criticising his appointment.

Of course, its possible that Labour have kept this issue up their sleeves for a while, but frankly I don't think they've the intelligence such deviousness would have required to have resisted playing the card when he was first elected as an MP. In their case it looks like discredited politics as usual; attack when you can by any means possible whenever you are presented the opportunity (whilst accusing the other side of smear tactics, of course).

Its all a rather tawdry affair to see this being played out now, simply because he's been given a prominent role. At the end of the day, the perpetrators of a horrible crime have or are still doing time, the victim has recovered and appears to be doing well enough to have gone off to University and everyone involved has no doubt learned a lot of lessons.

To continue to justify attacking Robert seems to me to require a belief he acted either in a grossly incompetent or deliberately manipulative and malign way. Knowing a bit about the man, I simply don't see either. 
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Muggins on July 23, 2014, 09:15:55 AM
I'd suggest that this is how it panned out. Robert was appointed - apart from them up in Westminster the next people to know would be the press via a Press release etc.

It gets picked up on his home turf, straight away of course.  Adver reporters remember the highly controversial school story - School supposedly one of the best in Swindon - lad very badly injured by racist/bullying???? Wasn't it in the school playground after hours?? Can't remember the actual story, but it ran for some time on and off and was thoroughly unpleasant, so I can see it would stick in the mind of reporters/editors.  Adver decides to run story.  Starts phoning people. Phones lads parents (probably still living with the consequences), friends, maybe even the school, then, having found their contact list, probably Anne Snelgrove as an opposition spokesperson.

Being chased to give a comment can be a very unpleasant thing and if the press think there is an exciting headline in it, they are persistent.

Robert probably didn't have to tell the PM even if her remembered the incident, because although it might seem very unpleasant to us, it's probably all in a days work for an MP - but its just as well it's out now, then he can get on with the job.  I'd worry abut him getting that post, but not for these reasons.  Let's see how he does!



I lay good money down that none of those went to the press first.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Tobes on July 23, 2014, 06:14:06 PM
Quote
I lay good money down that none of those went to the press first.


... but given that the whole story doesn't lie in the Webster/'Asian Invasion incident but in Roberts otherwise unreported censure by the Inns of Court after Mrs Websters failed civil action, I'd lay equally good money that this wasn't lead by an adver reporter.

I'm pretty sure this has blown up after someone with both an axe to grind and a detailed eye to Robert's history put together an 'interesting package', one th Adver couldn't ignore (nor the national press, for that matter).

I guess we're unlikely to ever know for sure, but the speed of Snelgrove's involvement and the readiness of Mrs Webster to quote in detail makes me wonder quite how 'spontaneous' and unplanned the reaction really was.

Again, I suggest this based on my years as a PR...

The story about his appointment broke on the 15th of July.

It wasn't until the 21st that we had a sniff of outspoken criticism - and this was extensively made by Mrs Webster.

If the Adver were the driving force behind linking his appointment to a 'scandal', they would clearly have done it either the same day or immediately after, in my opinion.

Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Spunkymonkey on July 23, 2014, 08:45:16 PM
The story about his appointment broke on the 15th of July.

It wasn't until the 21st that we had a sniff of outspoken criticism - and this was extensively made by Mrs Webster.

If the Adver were the driving force behind linking his appointment to a 'scandal', they would clearly have done it either the same day or immediately after, in my opinion.

According to the original news article, it was Mrs Webster who took the original complaint to Bar Standards 3 years ago. My guess is that Mrs Webster went to the Adver and not the other way round, but we will probably never know for sure.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Spunkymonkey on July 23, 2014, 09:01:16 PM
I haven't heard much about this in the national press since the story first broke suggesting that it is going to go away.

I know this is a different situation, but I can't help drawing comparisons with the former Mayor Martin's experience.

It seems that people are able to taken into account Robert Buckland's previous good character and have accepted this as a minor one-off mistake. His willingness to admit to his mistake has made the opposition and the press lose interest.

In contrast, Nick Martin's extensive denials kept his story in the press and ultimately made his position untenable. Would a prompt and sincere
apology have saved him?

Is there a lesson to be learnt here?
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: the gorgon on July 24, 2014, 04:27:51 PM
Goes to show the difference that dealing with something promptly and properly does.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Gordon Smith on July 27, 2014, 07:09:47 PM
What a surprise!  Mr Buckland has voted for the party requirements on all but one time which was against Gay marriage.

In fact I, with several others, have emails from Mr Buckland saying that he is not in office to support the people of Swindon but simply to support the Tory party.

I notice that Mr Buckland's favourite rag The Link, has pictures of him doing various things like prospecting at the Ridgeway Farm disaster and also of him  saying he is proud to be given the post of Solicitor Beneral and IT WILL NOT AFFECT the support he gives to Swindon people. Of course it won't because Mr Buckland has stated that he is not in office to support us only the Tory party.

So S.Swindon does not have an elected representative in parliament.

I thought Snelgrove was bad as she would only respond with extracts from Blair's propaganda, but Buckland is just a typical politician, out for Buckland and no one else.

Well I will do my best to ensure he serves just one term supporting the Tory party in London.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Phil Chitty on July 27, 2014, 08:01:34 PM

In fact I, with several others, have emails from Mr Buckland saying that he is not in office to support the people of Swindon but simply to support the Tory party.



Time to put up or shut up.

Somehow I don't think you can prove that!
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Terry Reynolds on July 27, 2014, 09:54:19 PM
Gordon, the time to get worried, is when he claims for 25p carrier bags.. along with all the rest that annie claimed for..
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Geoff Reid on July 28, 2014, 03:50:53 PM

In fact I, with several others, have emails from Mr Buckland saying that he is not in office to support the people of Swindon but simply to support the Tory party.



Time to put up or shut up.

Somehow I don't think you can prove that!

I, too, would like to see and read those emails :)

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Tobes on July 28, 2014, 06:20:56 PM
Quote
In fact I, with several others, have emails from Mr Buckland saying that he is not in office to support the people of Swindon but simply to support the Tory party.

I bet others would love to see them too - indeed, anyone with legal qualifications and an appreciation of libel would be simply fascinated.

Come on Gordon, chop chop!  :coolsmiley:
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: moley on July 28, 2014, 08:04:37 PM
I'd start this by saying I'm not a Tory and I've never voted for the Conservative Party and almost certainly won't at the next election either.

My wife and I have however written to him on a couple of matters, and he has (as far as I'm concerned) dealt with them in the way I'd like my MP to do.

As indeed did his immediate predecessors when we wrote to them as well.....

(And the matter I flagged did seem to get toned down between the bill concerned first being published and him voting in parliament).

Moley
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Terry Reynolds on July 28, 2014, 10:40:49 PM
Moley, your not going to vote for that Ed the Red, who walks around, with Len's arm, up his backside... :2funny:
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: moley on July 28, 2014, 11:04:15 PM
I most likely am Terry..... as IMO the best of a bad bunch.

I'm totally opposed to UKIP, and with the Conservatives trying to become UKIP-Lite, plus a LibDem vote in Swindon being wasted I don't see much choice left...

(As someone who works for a European company I'm far from convinced that the UK's future is best suited outside the EU, and I certainly don't think mine is..)

Moley
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Terry Reynolds on July 29, 2014, 12:06:15 AM
Ill be voting with UKIP, may be a wasted vote, but cant see any future in hapless Cameron or ed the red, both out of their league.. and the EU is going nowhere, and we are getting stuffed every day with immigrants, whether your told they are good for the country or not, we cant take any more, and things like that stunt in preston, makes it even more real..
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: the gorgon on July 29, 2014, 07:31:58 AM
Well according to this Daily Mail article (so it must be true) Britain needs 7 million more immigrants just to cope with the ageing population (so just getting the unemployed working won't be enough).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2366934/Britain-needs-7million-MORE-immigrants-50-years-meet-cost-ageing-population.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2366934/Britain-needs-7million-MORE-immigrants-50-years-meet-cost-ageing-population.html)

That population needing care will be partially Generation X (30-50 year olds), and somewhat ironically the so-called baby boomers (50-70 year olds) who just so happen to be in the age band the most likely to vote UKIP  http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/03/05/analysis-ukip-voters/ (http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/03/05/analysis-ukip-voters/)

Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Muggins on July 29, 2014, 09:07:10 AM
well by the time I need care, I'll be in that band most likely to be voting UK - do not despair - I will not be - voting UKIP.

I'm with Moley on this one - albeit the best of a bad bunch, but still the party most likely to be guided by it's members and constituents. 

If something new, vibrant and honest comes along, I might give them the time of day.

As far as I can see the Adver letters page, (I do not judge the whole paper by the letters page and whether they print my letters or not)  seems to be pretty balanced in the two and froing of their very few contributors. In fact I now glance down at who wrote the letter, can usually tell what they have written - because it's all much the same and read it if it's someone new. 
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Terry Reynolds on July 29, 2014, 09:42:56 AM





 

Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it

« Reply #68 on: Today at 09:07:10 AM »


Quote

 

well by the time I need care, I'll be in that band most likely to be voting UK - do not despair - I will not be - voting UKIP.

I'm with Moley on this one - albeit the best of a bad bunch, but still the party most likely to be guided by it's members and constituents. 
Mugs, don't you mean, what Len and others tell them what to do.. :2funny:
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Muggins on July 29, 2014, 03:46:49 PM
Better than doing what big business and banks tell them to do.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Terry Reynolds on July 29, 2014, 09:41:10 PM
Read the papers today Mugs, the banks back in 2008-09, were rigging the bank rate, and have just been found out, meanwhile, Gordon was giving away knighthoods to them for services to banking. you couldn't make it up..
as for better than banks etc, depends on if you want the infamous Len running this country, and we saw how ed rolled over when the challenge of Falkirk came up..
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Muggins on July 30, 2014, 10:01:08 AM
Quote:  "Read the papers today Mugs, the banks back in 2008-09, were rigging the bank rate"


There you go Terry, you have just given an example of the Banks and why I don't want them running the country.


Quote "and have just been found out"   --- and sneaky with it!

 
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Richard Symonds on July 30, 2014, 01:53:10 PM
Quote:  "Read the papers today Mugs, the banks back in 2008-09, were rigging the bank rate"


There you go Terry, you have just given an example of the Banks and why I don't want them running the country.


Quote "and have just been found out"   --- and sneaky with it!

Hey M I think what Terry was saying was it was Gordon Brown, a Labour Prime Minister, who knighted Fred the Shred aka the Boss of RBS, so why did he do that if he did not condone his behaviour?
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Muggins on July 31, 2014, 09:20:09 AM
Because Gordon didn't know, probably no one did at the time - Terry's quote "Only just been found out".

That's what I mean - sneaky, and clever, if he managed to do it without anyone knowing or you could add nasty if he was intimidating people not to tell, and it took several years to find out.
Title: Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
Post by: Terry Reynolds on July 31, 2014, 09:41:46 AM
You cant ell me that brown and his cohorts, didn't know about the bank cash flow problems on the day, after all they were making big time with he tax from the bonus payments the bankers were getting. same as the phone tapping, that started back in 2006, but never kicked off until the last few years,
Brown set up the FSA within months of them taking power, so what were they doing during this pass the bank roll days, nothing, they were looking the other way as well....
if you look the other way, you wont notice.. pity that back door is open though.. :2funny: