Talkswindon

Town Planning, Housing Developments, Transport & Education => Mouldon Hill Country Park => Topic started by: I Could Do That on February 10, 2013, 10:31:24 PM

Title: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: I Could Do That on February 10, 2013, 10:31:24 PM
The Adver' has published an article which suggests residents of North Swindon will have a big influence on the best location for a school


http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10218851.Call_for_community_to_decide_school_site/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10218851.Call_for_community_to_decide_school_site/)

The irony is that readers' comments have not been enabled.
Surely that would be an obvious source for resident feedback
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Richard Symonds on February 11, 2013, 10:14:48 AM
I think you will find that the Cabinet has already decided to build this on Moulden Hill irrespective of cost and the feedback from the public.  I stand to be corrected if I am wrong.

Now if you want to influence them, ask them how they can cut everything in their budget and at the same time 'indulge' in the building of a new school without having the first idea how much it is going to cost them?

David Renard is alleged to have said in Council that if they decide to do it they will find the money. 

How else but by borrowing more money?

Have they learnt anything from the Croft experience, I suggest not.

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Rochelle on February 11, 2013, 11:54:41 AM
The view has been expressed by someone in the know that the more the Mouldon Hill site is looked at, the more problems it presents.
One of those problems may prove insurmountable.
There also seems to be more of a leaning towards a previously suggested site which was originally dismissed, at least in some quarters.
I have stated that I will challenge the consultation which is currently underway as it is flawed unless significant changes are made.
This is far from over...
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Spunkymonkey on February 11, 2013, 12:20:45 PM
I have heard that the proposed extension of Swindon & Cricklade Railway will pose problems, but not sure if they are insurmountable.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Rochelle on February 11, 2013, 12:41:59 PM
I suppose few things are insurmountable if you have endless time and money to spend, the borough is hardly in that position though!
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on February 11, 2013, 01:00:37 PM
The Residents of Swindon cannot afford a Council which makes decisions without the benefit of supporting evidence.

SBC does not have an open cheque book.

Time to act like grown ups and make decisions based on sound and supportable data.

Which we can afford....
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: I Could Do That on February 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM
Wish I'd started the thread with a shorter title.

Ground Farce pretty much sums it up
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on February 24, 2013, 11:40:27 PM
Currently being delivered, (and recently added to the TS Political Leaflet Library (http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/board,238.0.html): A leaflet from Conservative Cllr's Emma Faramarzi, Toby Elliot & Mark Edwards in association with Justin Tomlinson MP

Click thumbnail for pdf


(http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive_2013/2013-02-20-priory-vale-conservatives%5Bwebthumbnail%5D.jpg) (http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive_2013/2013-02-20-priory-vale-conservatives%5Bweb%5D.pdf)

Readers might remember that Cllrs Faramarzi & Elliot 'U' Turned on their 2012 pre-election campaign pledges to 'Oppose Innapropriate Development like Tadpole Lane', then betrayed the same residents they'd conned by becoming avid supporters of the Tadpole lane development shortly after being elected.  Cllr Elliot, then newly appointed to the planning Committee by Rod Bluh, (himself both council leader and chairman of the pork barrelappointments committee), was the planning committee proposer that the development should be approved. I've heard more than one resident refer to him as the Judas Goat.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on February 25, 2013, 07:26:49 AM
Currently being delivered, (and recently added to the TS Political Leaflet Library ([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/board,238.0.html[/url]): A leaflet from Conservative Cllr's Emma Faramarzi, Toby Elliot & Mark Edwards in association with Justin Tomlinson MP

Click thumbnail for pdf


([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive_2013/2013-02-20-priory-vale-conservatives%5Bwebthumbnail%5D.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive_2013/2013-02-20-priory-vale-conservatives%5Bweb%5D.pdf[/url])

Readers might remember that Cllrs Faramarzi & Elliot 'U' Turned on their 2012 pre-election campaign pledges to 'Oppose Innapropriate Development like Tadpole Lane', then betrayed the same residents they'd conned by becoming avid supporters of the Tadpole lane development shortly after being elected.  Cllr Elliot, then newly appointed to the planning Committee by Rod Bluh, (himself both council leader and chairman of the pork barrelappointments committee), was the planning committee proposer that the development should be approved. I've heard more than one resident refer to him as the Judas Goat.


Oh my ... What a lot of waffle from the powers that would be .. No time to comment in detail at the mo... Will look back at sbc's very own records for a more info and post later today.

Kareen
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on February 25, 2013, 11:03:36 AM
RedHouse Rob (http://www.talkswindon.org/lamplighters/lamplighters.htm) notes the following comments from Cllrs Elliot & Faramarzi published on the 19th Feb 2013 by the link magazine: (My bold emphasis)

Quote
Oakhurst councillor Toby Elliott said: “It’s a very difficult decision. North Swindon has been so densely developed that there is very little land available close to where a school is needed. But the important thing is to provide the places by September 2014.

Fellow Oakhurst councillor Emma Faramazi added: “My concern is that parents and children have access to a school that suits their needs. Mouldon Hill looks as if it’s the only realistic place. But I’d like to know if part of the Site of Special Scientific Interest in the middle of Oakhurst could be used.”

Paul Exell, chair of Oakhurst Residents’ Association, is concerned about building in the park. “I think it’s a dangerous move to build in a public open space; it will set a precedent which developers will exploit in other places.

“The council has known for several years about the demand for more school places in North Swindon from live birth information provided by the PCT. It’s really disappointing that there is now a rush to make decisions to provide them.


Cllr Elliot ought to be well aware that £6.x million pounds was given to SBC by the government several years ago, specifically to address the shortage of school places in North Swindon.  The Conservative council administration took that money and instead spent it in South Swindon on an un-needed and unwanted school at Croft.

Looks to be like Cllr's Faramarzi & Elliot are determined to plough through and dig up anything they see as being in the way of doing their masters bidding.

What do you make of Cllr Faramarzi's comment about the Oakhurst SSSI Muggins?

Also See: http://www.swindonlink.com/news/green-space-could-be-sacrificed-to-provide-new-school-in-north-swindon (http://www.swindonlink.com/news/green-space-could-be-sacrificed-to-provide-new-school-in-north-swindon)
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on February 25, 2013, 02:41:02 PM
Some background to where the money went and who agreed to this. A few North Swindon Councillors it would appear... 


 
Wednesday, 18th November, 2009 6.15 p.m., Cabinet

Meeting Attendance
Attendee   Role   Attendance   
Councillor Roderick Bluh Chair   Present   
Councillor Fionuala Foley Vice-Chair   Present   
Councillor Mark Edwards Member   Present   
Councillor Peter Greenhalgh Member   Present   
Councillor Colin Lovell Member   Apologies   
Councillor Brian Mattock Member   Present   
Councillor David Renard Member   Present   
Councillor Garry Perkins Member   Present   
Councillor Keith Williams Member   Present   
Councillor Philip Young Member   Apologies   
Councillor Nick Martin Member Speaker   In attendance
   
Recommendation, Cabinet is requested to agree

that the Group Director, Children be authorised to undertake a statutory
consultation on a proposal to bring forward the date of the opening of East Wichel
Primary School from September 2011 to September 2010, with the provision from
that earlier date of two classes for Reception-aged pupils on a temporary site
adjacent to Croft Sports Centre, with the permanent East Wichel Primary School
building on the East Wichel site subsequently providing 420 places across all
Primary Year groups from September 2011, as currently scheduled;

that, following the above consultation, the Group Director, Children be authorised
to submit an application to the Schools Adjudicator for approval to the above
proposed change.

Note; there was no consultation, residents were told this was happening ( at the same meeting that a certain female WC , also on cabinet, assured residents there were no plans for a permanent school on the Croft)  at a meeting in April 2010, by which time 3 places had already been offered to the Temp EW school.  

Wednesday, 9th December, 2009 6.15 p.m., CabinetMeeting Attendance
Attendee   Role   Attendance   
Councillor Roderick Bluh Chair   Present   
Councillor Fionuala Foley  Vice-Chair   Present   
Councillor Mark Edwards Member   Apologies   
Councillor Peter Greenhalgh Member   Present   
Councillor Colin Lovell Member   Present   
Councillor Brian Mattock Member   Present   
Councillor Garry Perkins Member   Present   
Councillor David Renard Member   Present   
Councillor Keith Williams Member   Present   
Councillor Philip Young Member   Present   
Councillor Derique Montaut Member Speaker   In attendance   

8. Draft Capital Programme: Proposed bids for 2010/11 for consultation (DFCE)
(CM: ME) (Pages 71 - 82)
68.   PROPOSALS "LONGLIST" 2010/11 TO 2013/14
•   
Childrens Provision of a 2FE school on the Croft site - £6,500,000
temporary provision already funded £6 ,500,000
Additional pupil places to meet demand. Figures reflect notification of £6.374m grant on 30/11/09 toward primary place planning in 10/11

Note: there was no consultation on the need for or location of this school. The £6,374,000 was in response to needs of 295 in North Swindon, 173 in the Town Centre and 13 in Old Town. Every penny went to Old Town.  


More to come..
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on February 25, 2013, 02:51:34 PM

Cabinet Dec 9th 2009...  
https://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=27577

https://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=27614

Childrens Feasibility studies - North Swindon non-PFI sites £10,000 -
Due to pressure on primary school places in the North Swindon area a review of the existing
feasibility study (non PFI sites) is required to allow for detailed planning of primary school place
provision until 2015.This will include possible sites, expansions of current schools and SEN
provision based on pupil projections.

Quite the thing these feasibility studies... £3,500 for Old Town and the Town Centre in Oct 2009 ... and now £10,000 for North Swindon in December 2009. Has anyone seen the output of this 'feasibility study'... is it public? 

So... in 2009 Cabinet knew they needed extra spaces in North Swindon, in 2009 Cabinet got the money for North Swindon, and in 2009 Cabinet knew they had to look for other sites in and for North Swindon....
 

Oh dear....

Now about those 'additional school places'...
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on February 25, 2013, 03:00:25 PM
Wrote a longer post than this then Jennyb cut me up at the posting.

Shorter one  Ref. SSSI, I'd like to see her try, she obvioulsy doesn't  know what a SSSI is.

SBC did have numbers projection and this can only be wrong, due to them changing the density numbers when they started Priory Vale - going from 8/14 per acre to 25 per acre, although the difference was made up of mostly flats, so some people must be lively in not ideal accommodation. I bet they didn;t update the school figures.
Or the birth rate in general has shot up. Or they left space for another school which has subsequently been built on.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on February 25, 2013, 03:59:51 PM

Ref. SSSI, I'd like to see her try, she obvioulsy doesn't  know what a SSSI is.

The SSSI comment is either a distraction threat or ignorant comment - Cllr Faramarzi either hopes to distract residents of Oakhurst into applying themselves to deal with an empty threat against the Oakhurst SSSI instead of pushing for the new school to be built on the intended site of the |Vera Tomlinson Memorial Hall, or has yet again publicised her woeful lack of knowledge and interest in Oakhurst..

SBC did have numbers projection and this can only be wrong, due to them changing the density numbers when they started Priory Vale - going from 8/14 per acre to 25 per acre, although the difference was made up of mostly flats, so some people must be lively in not ideal accommodation. I bet they didn;t update the school figures.
Or the birth rate in general has shot up. Or they left space for another school which has subsequently been built on.

Kareen Boyd has the relevent figures. I'm not sure that they support that theory.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on February 25, 2013, 04:36:09 PM
Well let's put it another way, The whole of Abbey Meads was going to be 8/14 houses per acre at that point they were building 2 and three bed houses, not many fours if I remember rightly, but could have been if you chucked in the box room.

Assuming that all bedrooms were occupied!

Then when they got to Priory Vale the ratio shot up to 25 to the acre, this was made up by putting in all sorts, like  them coach houses thingys (which are flats with a garage underneath etc) blocks of flats, and normal two and three bed and those taller 3 bed houses. So even more houses were shoe horned in along with the flats.   Logical if you ask me. 

The housing density was not 25 per acre at the start of building Abbey Meads, it was some change of policy from the government that made it shoot up. I've said before I can take you to the field where it happened, one half is built like it should ahve been the other half the field at the higher ratio.  Shame the trees are between me and it, I could do a pretty good roof shot for you.

I've just remembered too, that Groundwell (this side of Thamsdown Drive was not going to be housing development, that was going to be the halls of residence fo one of the university bids.

Then that changed and the higher density housing was put in there too.  There is a bit of mix of housing up there, with Social Housing chucked in because another change in  policy on having 30% came in about then, as it did too in Redhouse. 

When the schools were boing planned there, the schools were supposed to be in the middle of their catchment, but in reality the heads were allowed to decide and it seemed to me that Abbey Meads school did not want Groundwell kids. Some of them ended up in Penhill schools.  So Abbey Meads school was at the extreme end of it's catchment, as is Catherine Waite. If that is the same at the others maybe that's why they are short over the other end!  I don't know what the situation is now, whether that's been shuffled around or not.

But it makes sense that if you are planning  a development of 10,000 house sand there ends up being say 15,000 and you haven't replanned, then services are going to be stretched!

And wal la - so they are! 
 
 
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on February 25, 2013, 05:16:09 PM
Muggins,

The head of children's and adult services is paid £138,000 per annum. This department appears to have more managers than you can shake a stick at.

Any and all developments create the need for schools.

These bods know where and when houses are going to be built, how big these houses are and where the children live from nigh on the day they are born.

They know where the schools are, where they plan to build more ( even if they don't tell the plebs) and how much capacity exists.

North Swindon need is not a surprise... they have been caught out in their inept management of the jobs they are paid handsomely to do.

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on February 25, 2013, 06:15:29 PM
I think that's what I've said! 

Plan a  development, change the plan, but not the plan for the change to services.  I didn't do it, you didn't do it - they did.  And that was when they had plenty of staff to do it.

It's no surprise to us, but it is to them!

I bet even as we write they are cocking up even more plans.   

One of the reasons they do that, is because they don't follow plans.

They just write them then bin them. 

 

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on February 25, 2013, 07:15:30 PM
I think that's what I've said! 

Plan a  development, change the plan, but not the plan for the change to services.  I didn't do it, you didn't do it - they did.  And that was when they had plenty of staff to do it.

It's no surprise to us, but it is to them!

I bet even as we write they are cocking up even more plans.   

One of the reasons they do that, is because they don't follow plans.

They just write them then bin them.

Oh I would speculate that there is a plan somewhere and it has been followed.... but that plan has not been about school place planning.. and it sure as hell has not been discussed or minuted at any council meetings.. 

Why else would SBC knowingly build a school in Old Town in the full knowledge that it was not and never had been needed?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on February 25, 2013, 07:17:27 PM

I bet even as we write they are cocking up even more plans.   

One of the reasons they do that, is because they don't follow plans.

They just write them then bin them.

Plans are proposed, consulted on, agreed and then completely ignored when it suits politicians to do so.

In this case the need for School places in North Swindon was ignored because the money for those needed school places was plundered by legacy and vision obsessed politicians determined to deliver a school in the wrong place, at the wrong time for political purposes rather than a genuine educational need which Swindon Borough Councils own figures clearly demonstrate did not exist then, and does not exist now.

The £6,000,000+ diverted from North Swindon on political whim is just the latest figure to bob to the surface as residents realise that North Swindon* has been systematically and politically plundered of education and community cash over the last 6 or 7 years....

.....but the day has now arrived when the plunderers have to deliver the right number of school places, at the time and in the right places, and have to do so in the full knowledge that Daddy has already gambled the mortgage money away on another pRodject on the wrong side of town.

Justin Tomlinson (MP) also has his dabs all over this from his years as one of Bluhs cabinet corporals so I'm not surprised that he'll want this to vanish from his radar as quickly as possible, hence his obvious and predictable support for building on Mouldon Hill Country Park - and he'd like it done quickly.  In his eyes, better a country park or two is paved over and built on than him suffering any reputational damage caused by an in-depth look at his time at SBC.  I'm interested to see what Cllr Woods 'independent' investigation will have to say about the closure of Northview Primary School and then Cllr Tomlinsons role in that closure.

Quote
Why else would SBC knowingly build a school in Old Town in the full knowledge that it was not and never had been needed?

Because the Town has been, and is, being blighted by a council leadership which thinks it knows better than experts, knows it can get away with ignoring facts, has got away with plundering many millions of pounds from one part of the town and wasting it other parts.   When time began running out for our incompetent incumbents they even tried to flog off 10,000 council houses to nett just £40,000,000 (this is a knock-down fire-sale value of just £4,000 per house), so they could use the money to Bluhnder onwards and try to keep the 'orrible truth hidden from the 'orrible oiks and perhaps pull a rabbit out of George Osbournes back pocket.

There are no rabbits and they've wasted the money.

* And not just North Swindon.

   
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on February 25, 2013, 07:21:47 PM
The Adver' has published an article which suggests residents of North Swindon will have a big influence on the best location for a school


[url]http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10218851.Call_for_community_to_decide_school_site/[/url] ([url]http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10218851.Call_for_community_to_decide_school_site/[/url])

The irony is that readers' comments have not been enabled.
Surely that would be an obvious source for resident feedback


Let me give some feedback here....

The officer in the article ( funny that there are no councillors to be seen) is the same officer who told around 200 Old Town residents on September 23rd 2010 that there were no plans for a school on Croft ( there were no councillors at that one either).

His officer manager had accepted the feasibility study that said there would be a school on Croft in October 2009.

Trust is a precious thing is it not....
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on February 25, 2013, 07:25:32 PM
I'm interested to see what Cllr Woods 'independent' investigation will have to say about the closure of Northview Primary School and then Cllr Tomlinsons role in that closure.

 

I believe that Cllr Wood's 'independent review' is due out by the end of February 2013 .. some 6 weeks late.

I look forward to it with interest.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Weebleman on February 27, 2013, 09:06:50 AM
Psssst..... I think it might have started!

When going around Mouldon for my first dog walk of the day I noticed that SCS had the car park coned off in the area where the new "proposed" access road will join. One operative was removing the metal guards from around a couple well established saplings (spade on the ground ready for action!) another was scanning the area with one of those pipe/cable detector thingies.
It might all be a coincidence of course  :-\

As Jim Royle would say: "Consultation?.......... my arse!"
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on February 27, 2013, 09:55:26 AM
Perhpas TSers and friends should be takign regular dog wlks there, and befriending the regular dog walkers, I can recomend this - nothing like dog walker for keeping an eye on things and reporting back.  i know one, will get in touch with her and tell her what's going on!

If SBC won't discuss it, we'll just have to do the detective work ourselves.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Steve Wakefield on February 27, 2013, 09:59:11 AM
Muggins

Prey tell will you be taking your motorised surveillance car  down on a mission? If you do then don't for get your toothbrush camera. :wink:
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on February 27, 2013, 11:56:45 AM
That's the difference between me and the blokes, Steve, I don't do morotised, well not in the way you mean.

My contrubition (or mission) should I choose to take time out from what I am already up to my neck in! (Nothing to do with the Orchard) would be one of human resources.

I would already have that to hand if I walked a dog there.  I don't have a dog neither can I get over there easily, so how to contact the people we need?

I've made a start.  A network is what we need and a facebook page.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Weebleman on February 27, 2013, 02:42:06 PM

I would already have that to hand if I walked a dog there.  I don't have a dog neither can I get over there easily, so how to contact the people we need?

I've made a start.  A network is what we need and a facebook page.

I've got a dog Muggins...... can I join your network miss? Can I? Can I? :2funny:

I've just been over there again for the afternoon walkies and can report that the metal guards have been removed from ALL the trees/saplings in the car park central reservation. However the task was obviously too much for a spade to cope with so they've now brought in a small mechanical digger..... photo to follow!

I say again, this could all be a coincidence so I'm keeping a 20% open mind ATM.
But just in case; can you remind me again when the consultation period is/was due to end? And how long would it take them to make a decision following such a consultation period?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on February 27, 2013, 03:07:05 PM
I'm going to be nice  :angel: And think the best of SBC.

Could the work going on be anything to do with the railway?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on February 27, 2013, 04:17:56 PM
I'm going to be nice  :angel: And think the best of SBC.



It may be wise to hope for the best but plan for the worst...
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Weebleman on February 27, 2013, 04:53:49 PM
I'm going to be nice  :angel: And think the best of SBC.

Could the work going on be anything to do with the railway?
Hope you're right JayJay. But the plans I last saw showed the rail track skirting around the periphery of the current car park to a temporary station in the field adjacent to it, so can't really see what impact it would have to necessitate the current work...... but we live in hope!
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on February 27, 2013, 05:54:27 PM

I would already have that to hand if I walked a dog there.  I don't have a dog neither can I get over there easily, so how to contact the people we need?

I've made a start.  A network is what we need and a facebook page.

I've got a dog Muggins...... can I join your network miss? Can I? Can I? :2funny:

I've just been over there again for the afternoon walkies and can report that the metal guards have been removed from ALL the trees/saplings in the car park central reservation. However the task was obviously too much for a spade to cope with so they've now brought in a small mechanical digger..... photo to follow!

I say again, this could all be a coincidence so I'm keeping a 20% open mind ATM.
But just in case; can you remind me again when the consultation period is/was due to end? And how long would it take them to make a decision following such a consultation period?

Of course you can Weebs - a founder member!  Shall we put up a facebook page? If we do are you up for handing out leaflets to other dog walkers etc. to get them to join? All we need is to keep the information flowing then hopefully things iwll start to happen.

I'm going to be nice  :angel: And think the best of SBC.

Could the work going on be anything to do with the railway?

That way goes the devil!   Agree with Jennyb - hope for the best prepare for the worst.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on February 27, 2013, 05:57:44 PM

Can anyone supply a precise map so we can see exactly where we're walking and what we're observing?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on February 27, 2013, 06:13:51 PM
Perhaps it would be easier to Google Earth it.

Find the car park - And each time you go, walk in a different direction. I think that's possible at Mouldon Hill, because there are parts I know we haven't explored. Take photos - no need to publish them here, just keep them so you know what it looked like at any given time.  Then when things start to happen take comparable photo's.

If anything happens I fancy it will be in the vicinity of the car park and not further up by the lake. things shouldn't really be happening near that car park, its not long since that was all put in.

I was never scared to go up and ask workmen what they were doing, whatever they are doing you
are paying for it somewhere along the line (no pun intended) Definitely do this if said workers are carry clipboards and have hard hats!  If they can't answer that then ask for the name of a person who can, of course I have the advantage of looking like a slightly dotty old dear, so no one ever didn't give me a few clues as to what was going on.

If your dog is likely to jump at them it makes them edgy enough to want to get rid of you quickly with an answer.  My last dog was a cracker for the jumping up covered in mud, especially if I didn't bring him to heel like he was trained to do.   

This is a long haul, but easy to do, task. Just walk your dog - observe - photo - report.

At the same time paperwork needs to be poured over to find pout what's what and moles need to be found. 

Just call me 'M'
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on February 27, 2013, 07:31:10 PM
Google earth will help people to find Mouldon Hill Country Park.....

....but it's not going to highlight the area(s) under threat of development.  People want to know what they're looking for on the ground.

I'll ask again: Has anyone got a plan which shows the area(s) under threat?


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Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on February 28, 2013, 06:57:49 AM
I haven't got one, but I have seen one somewhere - on here I thought, but can't find it. 
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on February 28, 2013, 07:54:40 AM
these are the consultation maps:-
site 1
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20Option.pdf (http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20Option.pdf)
site 2
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20-%20Option%202.pdf (http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20-%20Option%202.pdf)

hope these are sufficent
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on February 28, 2013, 07:56:03 AM
Google earth will help people to find Mouldon Hill Country Park.....

....but it's not going to highlight the area(s) under threat of development.  People want to know what they're looking for on the ground.

I'll ask again: Has anyone got a plan which shows the area(s) under threat?


**************************************************
Posted from Galaxy Note using Tapatalk 2 App.

 
 
   

North Swindon School Consultation
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Pages/cd-consultation-primaryschoolplacesnorthswindon.aspx (http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Pages/cd-consultation-primaryschoolplacesnorthswindon.aspx)

Proposed site

http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20Option.pdf (http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20Option.pdf)
 
option 2 on Mouldon Hill

http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20-%20Option%202.pdf (http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20-%20Option%202.pdf)

Full map of Mouldon Hill Country Park from SBC... the proposed school site is in the top right hand ( north east) corner. I believe that the 2 options relate to differing access rather than differing locations.

http://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=14838&J=1 (http://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=14838&J=1)
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Weebleman on February 28, 2013, 11:27:30 AM
Happy to report that yesterday's alert was a false alarm. Looks like all they were doing was removing the metal guards and replacing them with very large wooden stakes. Although why they needed to call upon a mini digger to do this seems a bit of an overkill..... maybe they were just probing Muggins' doggie-walking intelligentsia :coolsmiley:. Yesterday they managed to complete four saplings, so I reckon they'll be around for a week or so yet!

On a happier note, I noticed this morning that someone* has made great inroads into the community forest planting between the old railway track and river Ray, on  the opposite side of Purton road -- so at least some good stuff is happening. Don't know how this will affect the Iffley road link (or whatever it's called now) but it's going to narrow the available corridor quite a bit. Were there plans published not long ago showing the proposed route?

*The planting down along Akers Way was carried out last December by a group of young school children which was quite heart-warming to see them getting involved.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Weebleman on February 28, 2013, 01:36:12 PM
If your dog is likely to jump at them it makes them edgy enough to want to get rid of you quickly with an answer.  My last dog was a cracker for the jumping up covered in mud, especially if I didn't bring him to heel like he was trained to do.   

Muggins I don't my soppy old Springer would make anyone edgy.......... unless of course they made the mistake of trying to eat a sandwich within 50 yards upwind of his nose, which would make it a whole different ballgame  :embarassed:
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on February 28, 2013, 01:42:46 PM
Carry Tesco meatballs with you and lob one in their direction, that should solve that problem.

Springer aye!  I like Springers. 
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on February 28, 2013, 02:23:32 PM
Google earth will help people to find Mouldon Hill Country Park.....

....but it's not going to highlight the area(s) under threat of development.  People want to know what they're looking for on the ground.

I'll ask again: Has anyone got a plan which shows the area(s) under threat?


**************************************************
Posted from Galaxy Note using Tapatalk 2 App.

 
 
   

North Swindon School Consultation
[url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Pages/cd-consultation-primaryschoolplacesnorthswindon.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Pages/cd-consultation-primaryschoolplacesnorthswindon.aspx[/url])

Proposed site

[url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20Option.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20Option.pdf[/url])
 
option 2 on Mouldon Hill

[url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20-%20Option%202.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20-%20Option%202.pdf[/url])

Full map of Mouldon Hill Country Park from SBC... the proposed school site is in the top right hand ( north east) corner. I believe that the 2 options relate to differing access rather than differing locations.

[url]http://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=14838&J=1[/url] ([url]http://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=14838&J=1[/url])


Jenny B,

There are two seperate proposal for the park - either a school at the entrance opposite the Tawny Owl, or a school North East part of the park between the railway and the river.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on February 28, 2013, 04:11:55 PM
Is there any legal requirement for SBC to post flyers/notices/leaflets in the country park to inform the users - who may not be local residents - that the park is being considered for building on?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on February 28, 2013, 05:53:12 PM
these are the consultation maps:-
site 1
[url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20Option.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20Option.pdf[/url])
site 2
[url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20-%20Option%202.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20-%20Option%202.pdf[/url])

hope these are sufficent



Those are exactly what I was hoping for - thank you :)
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on February 28, 2013, 06:20:23 PM
Those are quite detailed 'options'. 


My next question is: Does anyone have the similarly detailed plans which-I'm-sure-SBC-will-have-also-prepared for the three other sites up for consultation?


I'm betting that plans for the other sites don't exist because there is no official 'other option' than Mouldon Hill Country Park.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Weebleman on February 28, 2013, 07:57:38 PM
Geoff,

Redhouse:
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Redhouse%20Pub%20Site%20(2%20storey).pdf (http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Redhouse%20Pub%20Site%20(2%20storey).pdf)

Clary Road:
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Clary%20Road.pdf (http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Clary%20Road.pdf)

Preferred Mouldon site:
The plans displayed at the Tawny Owl a few weeks ago showed the access road coming off the end of the existing Mouldon car park with a level crossing to get across the rail track, with a further option sketched in for direct access off the dual carriageway and going under the rail track.
At the time, the direct access route was described as being a very expensive option and one that they were unlikely to be able to afford.  So it's interesting to see that the latest scheme shows only the direct access (expensive) route, with no mention of the link to the car park. Does anyone know what exactly is on the cards? It seems to me that the goal posts are changing while the consultation is taking place which IMHO makes the whole thing a bit pointless -- it certainly voids many of my comments!
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on February 28, 2013, 08:24:09 PM
Geoff,

Redhouse:
[url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Redhouse%20Pub%20Site%20(2%20storey).pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Redhouse%20Pub%20Site%20(2%20storey).pdf)[/url]

Clary Road:
[url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Clary%20Road.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Clary%20Road.pdf[/url])


Preferred Mouldon site:
The plans displayed at the Tawny Owl a few weeks ago showed the access road coming off the end of the existing Mouldon car park with a level crossing to get across the rail track, with a further option sketched in for direct access off the dual carriageway and going under the rail track.
At the time, the direct access route was described as being a very expensive option and one that they were unlikely to be able to afford.  So it's interesting to see that the latest scheme shows only the direct access (expensive) route, with no mention of the link to the car park. Does anyone know what exactly is on the cards? It seems to me that the goal posts are changing while the consultation is taking place which IMHO makes the whole thing a bit pointless -- it certainly voids many of my comments!


The links I posted earlier are the sbc web site so I assume are the most up to date - I can't really tell whether they were the ones displayed at the Tawny Owl.

These plans for Clary Rd/Redhouse seem less detailed, almost after thoughts :-\

Alot of time seems to have gone into the Mouldon Country Park plans.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Spunkymonkey on February 28, 2013, 08:39:50 PM
I have heard that the proposed extension of Swindon & Cricklade Railway will pose problems, but not sure if they are insurmountable.

I am sure that the Railway Inspectorate would object to a level crossing even it is only a hobby railway. If the direct access route is prohibitely expensive, then perhaps this the insurmountable problem referred to in earlier posts.
Title: Re: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on February 28, 2013, 11:05:16 PM

These plans for Clary Rd/Redhouse seem less detailed, almost after thoughts :-

Alot of time seems to have gone into the Mouldon Country Park plans.

Exactly. I know what conclusion I draw from that. :(


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Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on March 01, 2013, 08:11:29 AM
Lest we forget...

The Mouldon Hill Proposal is based on the development of a Class Solutions design... the flagship for which was supposed to be the Croft.

The Croft has not behaved as Cllr Bluh wished... it is not complete in 2/3 of the time and it sure as heck does not look to be 2/3 cost of a normal school. To date we have not seen any Cllrs up to have a photo shoot at what Cllr Bluh states is a finished product... 

Mouldon Hill is a green field site.. which might serve to minimise the awful scale of this set of sheds and its 19 roofs. Might ( haha) look better than the Croft in pictures??

It will be of interest to see whether the next leader is hell bent on pursuing this unapproved and unscrutinised business venture and gobbling up green and open public space to do so.

It is a matter of record (  I have the recording ) that Cllr Foley (... there will be no permanent school on the Croft).. liked and endorsed the Class Solutions design.

The lady is none too keen on uppity residents who dare to question and gets more than a little huffy when they do .. stamps her feet and then runs away...

Or perhaps when Elvis has left the building Class Solutions will join him?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on March 01, 2013, 08:21:09 AM
Forgot to mention...

The North Swindon MP has shown an interest in pop up schools... and met with the Class Solutions SBC Architect and Cllr Perkins ( then lead member for schools) ... way back in (I think) Mar 2011 .. to discuss.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on March 01, 2013, 08:45:12 AM
Seeing as how Class Solutions appears to have put up such a poor show at Croft, how long do you think it will reamin viable as a business?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Weebleman on March 01, 2013, 09:49:42 AM
Lest we forget...

The Mouldon Hill Proposal is based on the development of a Class Solutions design... the flagship for which was supposed to be the Croft.

The Croft has not behaved as Cllr Bluh wished... it is not complete in 2/3 of the time and it sure as heck does not look to be 2/3 cost of a normal school. To date we have not seen any Cllrs up to have a photo shoot at what Cllr Bluh states is a finished product... 

Mouldon Hill is a green field site.. which might serve to minimise the awful scale of this set of sheds and its 19 roofs. Might ( haha) look better than the Croft in pictures??

It will be of interest to see whether the next leader is hell bent on pursuing this unapproved and unscrutinised business venture and gobbling up green and open public space to do so.

It is a matter of record (  I have the recording ) that Cllr Foley (... there will be no permanent school on the Croft).. liked and endorsed the Class Solutions design.

The lady is none too keen on uppity residents who dare to question and gets more than a little huffy when they do .. stamps her feet and then runs away...

Or perhaps when Elvis has left the building Class Solutions will join him?
Mouldon may be a greenfield site but parts of what they're taking over is little better than a swamp at some times of the year. Coupled with the cost of access under/over the rail track (if that's really what they intend to do) and having to move some pretty heavy overhead power gantry will not (in my view) make this either a cheap, easy or quick option. Interesting to note that no one has yet come up with even a wet-finger-in-the-air estimate of how much this lot is going to cost. I wonder how much expenditure it takes to wake-up the silent CT payer!

They may not have the same degree of hassle from residents' objections to contend with as they did with Croft, but that doesn't mean this is going to be a straight forward project.

One other thing that I might slip in to the thread at this point. While I was talking to the schools planning chappie at the Tawny Owl, I asked the question that if the need for these new entry classes are so urgent NOW, what's going to to happen when these kids get to the age of 11 and need to go to a senior school?......... The answer I was given was that this hadn't even been thought about yet and they'd look at finding somewhere nearer the time after the infant school was up and running  :o
So..... are we looking at the Mouldon site as potentially the site for the worlds first pop-up Academy in the long term? After all, plenty of room for expansion! Maybe the current installation is to set a precendent for later on.... more similarities to Croft than one might at first imagine.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on March 01, 2013, 10:07:20 AM
Geoff,

Redhouse:
[url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Redhouse%20Pub%20Site%20(2%20storey).pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Redhouse%20Pub%20Site%20(2%20storey).pdf)[/url]

Clary Road:
[url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Clary%20Road.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Clary%20Road.pdf[/url])

Preferred Mouldon site:
The plans displayed at the Tawny Owl a few weeks ago showed the access road coming off the end of the existing Mouldon car park with a level crossing to get across the rail track, with a further option sketched in for direct access off the dual carriageway and going under the rail track.
At the time, the direct access route was described as being a very expensive option and one that they were unlikely to be able to afford.  So it's interesting to see that the latest scheme shows only the direct access (expensive) route, with no mention of the link to the car park. Does anyone know what exactly is on the cards? It seems to me that the goal posts are changing while the consultation is taking place which IMHO makes the whole thing a bit pointless -- it certainly voids many of my comments!


It should be noted that there is no plan at all for Tadpole Farm!

The issue of school places was raised during the Crest Nicholson consultation, and formed part of the planning application (I think), and WCs had that extra window of consultation between the planning meeting in July 2012 & granting approval 3 months later, surely in all that time soemone would have delevoped a rough idea of a future Tadpole Farm school site/layout?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on March 01, 2013, 02:15:27 PM
Seeing as how Class Solutions appears to have put up such a poor show at Croft, how long do you think it will reamin viable as a business?

In order to remain viable there 1st has to be substantive evidence that it is viable.

As SBC/SCS have stated to the press that they won't know how much the Croft has cost until all of the invoices are in ... there is no evidence that Class Solutions is 2/3 of the cost of a normal school.. or can be built in 2/3 of the time.

Whether Class Solutions is cheaper to run and maintain ...who knows?

Interesting.. I don't believe that St Joseph's is pursuing Class Solutions...

It will be interesting to note if the new leader tries to convince them otherwise..
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on March 01, 2013, 02:32:23 PM
Lest we forget...

The Mouldon Hill Proposal is based on the development of a Class Solutions design... the flagship for which was supposed to be the Croft.

The Croft has not behaved as Cllr Bluh wished... it is not complete in 2/3 of the time and it sure as heck does not look to be 2/3 cost of a normal school. To date we have not seen any Cllrs up to have a photo shoot at what Cllr Bluh states is a finished product... 

Mouldon Hill is a green field site.. which might serve to minimise the awful scale of this set of sheds and its 19 roofs. Might ( haha) look better than the Croft in pictures??

It will be of interest to see whether the next leader is hell bent on pursuing this unapproved and unscrutinised business venture and gobbling up green and open public space to do so.

It is a matter of record (  I have the recording ) that Cllr Foley (... there will be no permanent school on the Croft).. liked and endorsed the Class Solutions design.

The lady is none too keen on uppity residents who dare to question and gets more than a little huffy when they do .. stamps her feet and then runs away...

Or perhaps when Elvis has left the building Class Solutions will join him?
Mouldon may be a greenfield site but parts of what they're taking over is little better than a swamp at some times of the year. Coupled with the cost of access under/over the rail track (if that's really what they intend to do) and having to move some pretty heavy overhead power gantry will not (in my view) make this either a cheap, easy or quick option. Interesting to note that no one has yet come up with even a wet-finger-in-the-air estimate of how much this lot is going to cost. I wonder how much expenditure it takes to wake-up the silent CT payer!

They may not have the same degree of hassle from residents' objections to contend with as they did with Croft, but that doesn't mean this is going to be a straight forward project.

One other thing that I might slip in to the thread at this point. While I was talking to the schools planning chappie at the Tawny Owl, I asked the question that if the need for these new entry classes are so urgent NOW, what's going to to happen when these kids get to the age of 11 and need to go to a senior school?......... The answer I was given was that this hadn't even been thought about yet and they'd look at finding somewhere nearer the time after the infant school was up and running  :o
So..... are we looking at the Mouldon site as potentially the site for the worlds first pop-up Academy in the long term? After all, plenty of room for expansion! Maybe the current installation is to set a precendent for later on.... more similarities to Croft than one might at first imagine.

It is interesting to compare North Swindon school need with East Wichel.

The planning chappie and his buddies will tell you that a new development generates the need for reception places and then the school will open for each successive year group.

North Swindon primary places are already under strain. The planning chappie has known about this since at least 2009.

Tadpole Farm was approved with no primary provision until 564 homes are built.

East Wichel has planning permission for 838 homes.

East Wichel got a temporary school on the Croft in 2010 for 60 pupils.. but opened with 3 and closed with 15 in July 2011.

East Wichel got a 420 pupil school in July 2011 which opened to all year groups.

East Wichel currently has 560ish homes. 

The planning chappie knows that East Wichel has oodles of spare places.  So does Cllr Renard.

The lack of consistency in approach is of great concern. Low pupil numbers have to be subsided, paucity of provision incurs cost and upheaval as children are taken here there and everywhere.

The Croft process has let the cat out of the bag.

It is time for an open, honest, no holds barred discussion about the true state of school place provision and planning across primary and secondary schools.

Let's see if SBC will get a leader with the backbone to do this.

Time for something better... 
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: oldtowner on March 03, 2013, 01:42:06 PM

It made me chuckle when I read the Pros/Cons for the Redhouse Pub Site
Quote
Pros:Difficult to see any as this piece is very small and would be a a very tight fit for even the smallest school

I would remind people that Croft School - 420 pupil school - is built on .59hectare site. So if the Redhouse site is bigger than .59hectare it can accomodate a school.

Quote
Cons:
(a) It would add to the existing traffic and parking problems on these already busy residential roads

The area around the Croft School was already busy residential roads with traffic and parking problems yet that school went ahead. The council also saw fit to set aside circa £500,000 for traffic mitigation work (Cllrs Bawden, Foley and Mattock wanted £700,000 - so they told residents).

The Croft School also had a teachers car park built but despite the school being open the school car park is not used and the access gates to that car park reamain locked and the car park unused.

So if the councillors in North Swindon put their minds to it the school could be built at Redhouse. Where there's a will there's a way...

Its also worth pointing out that the money for the Croft School in South Swindon was in fact money diverted from North Swindon which was to have been used to build a school in North Swindon to address the demand for school place in that area.

The North Swindon residents need to be having some serious discussions with their local councillors and find out why their much needed school is not already in situ while in South Swindon there are two newly built and under utilised schools.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on March 03, 2013, 05:52:06 PM
JennyB Quote "So if the councillors in North Swindon put their minds to it the school could be built at Redhouse. Where there's a will there's a way...2

This site may be similar to the Bluynsdon Arms site, acorss the road and slightly to the right of the Northern Prbital, where a littel land was lef tfor the pub and a Mc Donalds - or some such.  But instead of getting that build and in first, they built the houses first, inevitably there was outcry from the  residents about the Mc Donalds outlet going in. they had already become used to the peace and quiet. I beleive Justin Tomlinson fought that battle for them  and found another site for McD's across the road in the NO car park.

The original site still stand idle - until now when there is planning in for a shelter housing old folks home type development. 

it strikes me that there are similarities with the Croft site, that if a councillor had wanted to, could have used to fight off further development there.

Back to the Redhouse pub, I wonder if, the housing around that site now having been built, will change the use of the site.  Because of the protest, but would a pub site including car parking etc, be big enough for a school?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Richard Symonds on March 05, 2013, 11:16:57 AM
Some observations that may be relevant!

1.  David Renard said that if they decide to proceed the money will be available.

2.  How well does a shed last on damp or flooded foundations?  Do they intend to replicate the Croft Piles?

My guess is that Moulden Hill will be found to be the most appropriate site and that one day work will commence very soon.  When it will be concluded is another matter.

And all at a time when cuts are being made to everything considered important to Swindon Council Tax Payers.

The public are aware and are taking note.

But then at least Spender Rod is no longer part of the problem, so at least there is a possibility that common sense could prevail.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Mart on March 05, 2013, 07:30:33 PM
This is novel, two posts in the same day, just saying ......

But then at least Spender Rod is no longer part of the problem, so at least there is a possibility that common sense could prevail.

http://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0S00xp7RzZRlT0AFwN2BQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBrc3VyamVwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQD?p=the+who+won+t+get+fooled+again&vid=e9ef4b6286ffdb26e8eff3986441975a&l=8%3A33&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.4529078309028284%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSHhrZgojY1Q&tit=The+Who+-+Won%26%2339%3Bt+Get+Fooled+Again&c=1&sigr=11atik5em&fr=yfp-t-702-s (http://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0S00xp7RzZRlT0AFwN2BQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBrc3VyamVwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQD?p=the+who+won+t+get+fooled+again&vid=e9ef4b6286ffdb26e8eff3986441975a&l=8%3A33&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.4529078309028284%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSHhrZgojY1Q&tit=The+Who+-+Won%26%2339%3Bt+Get+Fooled+Again&c=1&sigr=11atik5em&fr=yfp-t-702-s)

Blimey, hope that works.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Simon on March 05, 2013, 08:55:06 PM
This is novel, two posts in the same day, just saying ......

But then at least Spender Rod is no longer part of the problem, so at least there is a possibility that common sense could prevail.

[url]http://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0S00xp7RzZRlT0AFwN2BQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBrc3VyamVwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQD?p=the+who+won+t+get+fooled+again&vid=e9ef4b6286ffdb26e8eff3986441975a&l=8%3A33&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.4529078309028284%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSHhrZgojY1Q&tit=The+Who+-+Won%26%2339%3Bt+Get+Fooled+Again&c=1&sigr=11atik5em&fr=yfp-t-702-s[/url] ([url]http://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0S00xp7RzZRlT0AFwN2BQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBrc3VyamVwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQD?p=the+who+won+t+get+fooled+again&vid=e9ef4b6286ffdb26e8eff3986441975a&l=8%3A33&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.4529078309028284%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSHhrZgojY1Q&tit=The+Who+-+Won%26%2339%3Bt+Get+Fooled+Again&c=1&sigr=11atik5em&fr=yfp-t-702-s[/url])

Blimey, hope that works.


Sort of... is this what you meant?

http://www.youtube.com/v/SHhrZgojY1Q
Title: Re: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on March 05, 2013, 09:58:51 PM
This is novel, two posts in the same day, just saying ....

Be glad that I wan't using a rifle when I hit the wrong target :) :) :)


**************************************************
Posted from Galaxy Note using Tapatalk 2 App.

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Mart on March 06, 2013, 07:21:10 PM
Be glad that I wan't using a rifle when I hit the wrong target

I was very accurate up to 300 french metres with the giant firestick.

I actually tried to recall what I had posted in case I had kicked the arse out of it at some point AND I was being given a hint.  (If I was I clearly haven't taken it)

My butt number  for the rifle that could hit the moon was 378 and it was wooden and short even though I'm gangly with a hint of chubby, I liked to snuggle in. Probably in the hands of a Syrian freedom fighter now.

Sorry, I'm maudlin about the withdrawal of BAOR, it's 1980 all over again at the moment.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on March 08, 2013, 10:53:27 AM
Currently being delivered, (and recently added to the TS Political Leaflet Library ([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/board,238.0.html[/url]): A leaflet from Conservative Cllr's Emma Faramarzi, Toby Elliot & Mark Edwards in association with Justin Tomlinson MP

Click thumbnail for pdf


([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive_2013/2013-02-20-priory-vale-conservatives%5Bwebthumbnail%5D.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive_2013/2013-02-20-priory-vale-conservatives%5Bweb%5D.pdf[/url])

Readers might remember that Cllrs Faramarzi & Elliot 'U' Turned on their 2012 pre-election campaign pledges to 'Oppose Innapropriate Development like Tadpole Lane', then betrayed the same residents they'd conned by becoming avid supporters of the Tadpole lane development shortly after being elected.  Cllr Elliot, then newly appointed to the planning Committee by Rod Bluh, (himself both council leader and chairman of the pork barrelappointments committee), was the planning committee proposer that the development should be approved. I've heard more than one resident refer to him as the Judas Goat.


Oh my ... What a lot of waffle from the powers that would be .. No time to comment in detail at the mo... Will look back at sbc's very own records for a more info and post later today.

Kareen


Just noticed something.

The Conservative web site is "www.prioryvale.info" -  see the leaflet.


In the Link magazine:

http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/Launch.aspx?EID=2af8be80-a0eb-4007-9162-b46c126b8a40 (http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/Launch.aspx?EID=2af8be80-a0eb-4007-9162-b46c126b8a40)

page 5 "Priory Vale Community website under new management" - Emma Faramarzi


The web site address is "www.prioryvale.net"


Make of it what you will.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Richard Symonds on March 08, 2013, 04:53:39 PM
http://www.oakhurstresidents.blogspot.co.uk/

FRIDAY, 8 MARCH 2013

Redhouse Village Centre Update
ORA have learnt today that planning permission has been granted for 33 houses at Redhouse Village Centre and the permission gives further news on the community centre site.

Residents have been asking us what is happening to the Redhouse school site in light of comments made yesterday in the Adver by Cllr David Renard, who was still driving forward the Mouldon Hill site.

This planning decision signals the end of the cafe culture promised to so many residents who bought their houses in Priory Vale and effectively signals the end of the proposed school site nearby. 

The consultation ends in two days and there will be disappointed residents who were hoping for a site at Redhouse.

It appears that building houses still comes before a doctor's surgery, school places and retail units. 

What's new there?

and look at this as well!!

http://194.73.99.13:8080/WAM/doc/Other-381127.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=381127&location=VOLUME5&contentType=&pageCount=1 (http://194.73.99.13:8080/WAM/doc/Other-381127.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=381127&location=VOLUME5&contentType=&pageCount=1)

Well Well, if you want Moulden Hill David (Renard), why not eliminate the other possibilities before the consultation is complete?

I wonder if Devid Renard will sink with his piles on the Moulden Hill site and take Swindon with it (him) financially?
Title: Class Solutions needs Mouldon Hill
Post by: jennyb on March 09, 2013, 01:34:45 PM
The Mouldon Hill site ( either entrance) comes with the Class Solutions design.

It is fairly obvious that the Croft was set up and the public stitched up to use this as the prototype and brochure for this half baked venture cobbled together in secret.

The Croft school, wonderful though the education may be and I hope is inside ,  is an eyesore. It looks as though all of the money has been spent on shoring up the ground and assembing MFI like sheds and roofs. All the other stuff necessary for a school.. like playgrounds and fences and entrances etc., look as though they came from the back garage at SCS . All a bit Blue Peter'ish.

A recent article in the Adver about the Croft featured a head of the White Horse Federation  waxing lyrical about the design and their involvement in it and , if I recall, stated that Class Solutions would be the design for all new schools in Swindon.

Now how on earth could a member of the WHF state or even know this? Do elected members know this? Where has this been minuted? And has anyone told St Joseph's?

Not sure what the representative of the WHF was selling... education or construction... if the latter it is to be wondered what the WHF's interest is. As with all things, this will no doubt come out sooner or later.

To date, not a single elected member has been seen anywhere near the Croft to have the usual photographs taken.. although an unlamented and aged past WC is regularly spotted driving slowly past...all a bit distasteful... obviously lacks the backbone to get out of the car?

In the same Adver article there was a lament that SBC/SCS or WHF? had not yet been able to sell this 'flagship design' to other Councils.

SBC/SCS appear to still believe that Class Solutions is a goer and they need somewhere to 'show it off'.

The Class Solutions design ( the sheer scale of which , rumour has it, shocked even the SCS chappies who had to assemble it) will dwarf nearby homes ... I would suggest it can only be built in wide open spaces far far away for communities.

Class Solutions needs Mouldon Hill.

It will be interesting to see what Cllr Renard puts forward for his report for North Swindon 2014 school places. 

As a result of the Croft , the public can see how the administration works in its use of open and green public space for school place planning. It is not a pretty sight.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: bobwright on March 09, 2013, 08:29:25 PM
St Josephs have their own design.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Mickraker on March 09, 2013, 10:12:15 PM
Is it  a flagship design  :-\
Title: Is Redhouse SBC's version of Schrodinger’s Cat?
Post by: jennyb on March 10, 2013, 10:45:17 AM
Crunch time is coming when the lead member for schools and North Swindon cllr must lay his cards on the table for the site of the 2014 North Swindon School. At the moment, the public have been invited to consider Redhouse as one of the potential sites.

http://www.swindon.gov.uk/northswindonprimary (http://www.swindon.gov.uk/northswindonprimary)

Would this be the same Redhouse for which the planning system shows PA S/12/0711: application for 33 houses and a charge of £240,000 to SBC for the land for a community centre?

http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000 (http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000)

PA S/12/0711 which states it was granted approval on 6/3/2013 by committee but for which no minutes of presentation to or approval by the planning committee exist?  Are elected members no longer necessary in the decision making process?  Or was someone trying to hide this from public view?

Is this SBC’s version of Schrodinger’s Cat? Can Redhouse be both a site for a school and a site for 33 houses/ community centre at the same time? 

Has the lead member been caught like a fox in the henhouse?  ‘Unintentionally’ misleading the public again?

It has been stated that on election of the next leader, it will be back to business as usual.
 
Profligacy?  Arrogance?   Ineptitude?  Deceit?  There are more than a few names which come to mind as fully paid up members of this club.

Business as usual?  God help us all.

In the meantime, what will the lead member offer to the parents and children of North Swindon?
 
The clock is ticking.
Title: Re: Re: Is Redhouse SBC's version of Schrodinger’s Cat?
Post by: komadori on March 10, 2013, 12:23:49 PM
Would this be the same Redhouse for which the planning system shows PA S/12/0711: application for 33 houses and a charge of £240,000 to SBC for the land for a community centre?

[url]http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000[/url] ([url]http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000[/url])

PA S/12/0711 which states it was granted approval on 6/3/2013 by committee but for which no minutes of presentation to or approval by the planning committee exist?  Are elected members no longer necessary in the decision making process?  Or was someone trying to hide this from public view?

Strangely invisible. Submitted in May, validated in June, target date for determination September, but no sign of it in any of the Planning Committee meeting minutes since it was submitted. I notice that the 'actual committee date' is blank on the planning portal too. As this is one of the statutory committees, one would hope that record keeping was rather more accurate.

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: oldtowner on March 10, 2013, 01:59:30 PM
St Josephs have their own design.

Do you know why they chose not to use Class Solutions given the claims made by SBC thats its faster and cheaper to build and cheaper to maintain?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Mickraker on March 10, 2013, 02:01:35 PM
A little Scarlet Pimpleish minutes  here minutes there they seek the minutes everywhere  :-\
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Mart on March 10, 2013, 02:13:54 PM
Do you know why they chose not to use Class Solutions given the claims made by SBC thats its faster and cheaper to build and cheaper to maintain?

Because that claim is fatuous bullshit.

Just guessing mind.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Mickraker on March 10, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
I know you are guessing as there is not a shred of evidence to support what you say where a pope speaks ex cathedra by proclamation of assumptive dogma  :-\
Title: Re: Re: Is Redhouse SBC's version of Schrodinger’s Cat?
Post by: jennyb on March 10, 2013, 02:29:41 PM
Would this be the same Redhouse for which the planning system shows PA S/12/0711: application for 33 houses and a charge of £240,000 to SBC for the land for a community centre?

[url]http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000[/url] ([url]http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000[/url])

PA S/12/0711 which states it was granted approval on 6/3/2013 by committee but for which no minutes of presentation to or approval by the planning committee exist?  Are elected members no longer necessary in the decision making process?  Or was someone trying to hide this from public view?

Strangely invisible. Submitted in May, validated in June, target date for determination September, but no sign of it in any of the Planning Committee meeting minutes since it was submitted. I notice that the 'actual committee date' is blank on the planning portal too. As this is one of the statutory committees, one would hope that record keeping was rather more accurate.


Does this mean if there is no record of the decision and decision makers then the decision itself is open to challenge ?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Richard Symonds on March 10, 2013, 02:34:04 PM
Do I detect a letter in the making to Chairman Lovell Jenny?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Richard Symonds on March 10, 2013, 02:35:15 PM
Or will a letter be directed to Dale 'Reindeer' Heenan instead?

or both?
Title: Re: Re: Is Redhouse SBC's version of Schrodinger’s Cat?
Post by: Geoff Reid on March 10, 2013, 11:44:36 PM
Would this be the same Redhouse for which the planning system shows PA S/12/0711: application for 33 houses and a charge of £240,000 to SBC for the land for a community centre?

[url]http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000[/url] ([url]http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000[/url])

PA S/12/0711 which states it was granted approval on 6/3/2013 by committee but for which no minutes of presentation to or approval by the planning committee exist?  Are elected members no longer necessary in the decision making process?  Or was someone trying to hide this from public view?

Strangely invisible. Submitted in May, validated in June, target date for determination September, but no sign of it in any of the Planning Committee meeting minutes since it was submitted. I notice that the 'actual committee date' is blank on the planning portal too. As this is one of the statutory committees, one would hope that record keeping was rather more accurate.


Unless the record keeping is deliberately inaccurate.  Politically expedient to hide the inconvenient and embarrassing fact that a site which is supposedly being presented to the public as a potential site for a new school has already been purchased by Swindon Borough Council and earmarked as the site of the Cll Vera Tomlinson Community Centre and the final resting place of at least £700,000 which the MP's mother had 'won' from the 106 monies Cllr Peter Stoddart had described as being 'Plundered' by his own colleagues.  Cllr Stoddart has since been erased from the group memory.

If the site isn't available, and Councillors know that it isn't available, then their 'CONsulting' with the public on it is yet another insulting deception, another lie.


Meanwhile, if this site isn't available as a site for a new school, the public might question why SBC is promoting the pretence that that it is.  In fact they might like to ask Justin Tomlinson MP why he has has assisted them in doing so by publishing, promoting and distributing a leaflet which details the pro and cons of siting a school on it.

I find it hard to believe that the North Swindon MP would have forgotten his Mothers long running 'championing' of her own causes or be unaware of her current activities, or that her political colleagues in North Swindon would conspire in aiding, abetting, counselling and procuring him to create and promote a misleading picture of what is really going on in his patch?

I rather thought he'd risen above that sort of thing when he left his SBC cabinet seat behind and parked his buttocks on the Westminster back benches.  Someone should ask him whether he condones deliberately misleading the public during public consultations.  I can't, he's not my MP, but I might ask Robert Buckland whether he condones it. Because they share an office I'm sure they'll have ample opportunity to discuss it and get their stories and positions straight. *

*Edit 11/03/2013 - I'd just remembered I received a copy of the letter signed by Justin Tomlinson (and distributed by the Priory Vale Conservative Crew) and it states that the Redhouse site has planning permission for a pub/eatery and that there will be: "great disappointment if this facility were to be taken away".

So what's the plan?, is it to be Vera Tomlinsons community centre or a pub eatery?, it will almost certainly not be a school which means it, as a consultation 'option' was a fake one.

It's in the Talkswindon Leaflet Library (2013 section (http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/topic,9204.msg90506.html#msg90506))

(http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive_2013/2013-02-20-priory-vale-conservatives%5Bwebthumbnail%5D.jpg) (http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive_2013/2013-02-20-priory-vale-conservatives%5Bweb%5D.pdf)
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on March 11, 2013, 07:54:27 AM
Or will a letter be directed to Dale 'Reindeer' Heenan instead?

or both?

Have asked the legal support to the planning committee for  direction to the minute which records this committee decision.

Should be straightforward to get to the facts.
Title: Re: Re: Is Redhouse SBC's version of Schrodinger’s Cat?
Post by: Jarvis on March 11, 2013, 08:34:43 AM
Meanwhile, if this site isn't available as a site for a new school, the public might question why SBC is promoting the pretence that that it is.  In fact they might like to ask Justin Tomlinson MP why he has has assisted them in doing so by publishing, promoting and distributing a leaflet which details the pro and cons of siting a school on it.

I find it hard to believe that the North Swindon MP would have forgotten his Mothers long running 'championing' of her own causes or be unaware of her current activities, or that her political colleagues in North Swindon would conspire in aiding, abetting, counselling and procuring him to create and promote a misleading picture of what is really going on in his patch?

I rather thought he'd risen above that sort of thing when he left his SBC cabinet seat behind and parked his buttocks on the Westminster back benches.  Someone should ask him whether he condones deliberately misleading the public during public consultations.  I can't, he's not my MP, but I might ask Robert Buckland whether he condones it. Because they share an office I'm sure they'll have ample opportunity to discuss it and get their stories and positions straight. *

*Edit 11/03/2013 - I'd just remembered I received a copy of the letter signed by Justin Tomlinson (and distributed by the Priory Vale Conservative Crew) and it states that the Redhouse site has planning permission for a pub/eatery and that there will be: "great disappointment if this facility were to be taken away".

So what's the plan?, is it to be Vera Tomlinsons community centre or a pub eatery?, it will almost certainly not be a school which means it, as a consultation 'option' was a fake one.

It's in the Talkswindon Leaflet Library (2013 section ([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/topic,9204.msg90506.html#msg90506[/url]))

([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive_2013/2013-02-20-priory-vale-conservatives%5Bwebthumbnail%5D.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive_2013/2013-02-20-priory-vale-conservatives%5Bweb%5D.pdf[/url])



Tee-Hee, so Justin Tomlinson is syaing that people will be disappointed if they don't get the pub they've already been promised and for which planning permission already exists, so what will they think about his Mother building her memorial hall there instead?  Or have I got this wrong?

I'm outside Chez Vile using the vile gentlemans wifi. Wonder if he'll give me some more free tea as he puts me straight over this Redhouse/Moulden Hill business?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Richard Symonds on March 11, 2013, 11:20:24 AM
Is Justin Thomlinson losing his influence or is it that he cannot be trusted on anything he says?

(doing a Mart now)

Just asking!!
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: komadori on March 11, 2013, 07:06:58 PM
I'm not wholely convinced by the argument that, as this site has planning permission for a pub, it won't be used for a school or community centre instead. There's not much demand for new pubs at the moment from the pub chains.

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on March 11, 2013, 09:23:30 PM
I'm not wholely convinced by the argument that, as this site has planning permission for a pub, it won't be used for a school or community centre instead. There's not much demand for new pubs at the moment from the pub chains.


I wish I had a crystal ball, but with JT has been 'championing' the pub for a long time and his Ma, (Vera) similarly, erm, 'championing' her community centre plan I doubt either of them will allow their plans to veer off course, especially as Vera worked so hard to 'win' £700,000 for her project.

Incidentally, we've also been discussing the subject of Councillors meeting with developers and whether it is, or is not appropriate. See: Local Councillors As Planning Consultants? (http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/topic,9244.0.html)

That thread reminded me of something which dropped into the leakline a while back:  Hat-Tip to Lamplighter Tilley (http://www.talkswindon.org/lamplighters/lamplighters.htm):

Quote from: Cllr Vera Tomlinson
“I recently saw a plan of Redhouse I believe I was not meant to see - it showed the Medical Centre removed and the land for the Community Centre reduced. I complained, and these have now reappeared on the latest version of the plan.

I had a meeting with Crest Nicholson recently about Redhouse Village Centre. There were two Crest Nicholson MDs and a lot of other Crest Nicholson people and myself. I asked them to build the Community Centre at their own cost and suggested they donate the land as well - they agreed to this. They have also agreed to put up three signs on the three plots to show that the plots of land are reserved for a Community Centre, a Medical Centre and a Restaurant/Pub. This is really good news for Redhouse.”


Interesting, not least because Cllr Tomlinson (V) had a meeting with no less than two managing Directors of Crest Nicolson, a lot of other Crest people and, (unless her grammar is appalling or she wanted sole credit), just her.  She seemed quite proud about it apparently.

I reckon, having worked so hard to 'secure' these things for the 'excellent' Redhouse residents, neither Cllr or MP Tomlinson will want the area blighted by another Class Solutions non-portable portacabin :)
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on March 12, 2013, 08:31:04 AM
Not impossible Geoff, Me and the chair of the 7F's group had a meeting with an MD over at Abbey Meads, can't remember the name of the developer, but it was the only small family firm that built any houses there. I think he genuinely meant what-ever it was he agreed to at the time - nothing major like community centres but preservation of hedgerows and working cleanly and with care I think, but half way through the site he threw in the trowel, said he bloody hated that site in Swindon and cleared off. His first Sorte out of the South East if I remember rightly. I could show you where his (very nice houses) ended and the other developers (Westbury Homes) started. He'd bought the land right next to Penhill valley  ::) but I don't think it was that that drove him away, because the more he built the further away he got. His very nice houses sold like hot cakes. From the lack of For Sale signs I'd say the people who bought them are pretty happy there. Well who wouldn't be right next to Penhill Copse?

We met with more than one site manager, we used to call in at the sales houses as if we were customers - amazing what you do and don't find out by doing that, holding in mind that the salesperosn only tell you what they've been told and they are not kept very well informed about anything expcept their aprticular site.

One thing we quickly learned was not to brag about what we had achieved via those meetings, becasue the develoeprs invariably didn't keep any promises.

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on March 12, 2013, 10:00:26 AM
I'm not wholely convinced by the argument that, as this site has planning permission for a pub, it won't be used for a school or community centre instead. There's not much demand for new pubs at the moment from the pub chains.


I wish I had a crystal ball, but with JT has been 'championing' the pub for a long time and his Ma, (Vera) similarly, erm, 'championing' her community centre plan I doubt either of them will allow their plans to veer off course, especially as Vera worked so hard to 'win' £700,000 for her project.

Incidentally, we've also been discussing the subject of Councillors meeting with developers and whether it is, or is not appropriate. See: Local Councillors As Planning Consultants? ([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/topic,9244.0.html[/url])

That thread reminded me of something which dropped into the leakline a while back:  Hat-Tip to Lamplighter Tilley ([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/lamplighters/lamplighters.htm[/url]):

Quote from: Cllr Vera Tomlinson
“I recently saw a plan of Redhouse I believe I was not meant to see - it showed the Medical Centre removed and the land for the Community Centre reduced. I complained, and these have now reappeared on the latest version of the plan.

I had a meeting with Crest Nicholson recently about Redhouse Village Centre. There were two Crest Nicholson MDs and a lot of other Crest Nicholson people and myself. I asked them to build the Community Centre at their own cost and suggested they donate the land as well - they agreed to this. They have also agreed to put up three signs on the three plots to show that the plots of land are reserved for a Community Centre, a Medical Centre and a Restaurant/Pub. This is really good news for Redhouse.”


Interesting, not least because Cllr Tomlinson (V) had a meeting with no less than two managing Directors of Crest Nicolson, a lot of other Crest people and, (unless her grammar is appalling or she wanted sole credit), just her.  She seemed quite proud about it apparently.

I reckon, having worked so hard to 'secure' these things for the 'excellent' Redhouse residents, neither Cllr or MP Tomlinson will want the area blighted by another Class Solutions non-portable portacabin :)


[url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/northswindonprimary[/url] ([url]http://www.swindon.gov.uk/northswindonprimary[/url])

Would this be the same Redhouse for which the planning system shows PA S/12/0711: application for 33 houses and a charge of £240,000 to SBC for the land for a community centre?

[url]http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000[/url] ([url]http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000[/url])


If Cllr Tomlinson (V), met with Crest Nicolson and quote from above " I asked them to build the Community Centre at their own cost and suggested they donate the land as well - they agreed to this. "

Why have the council just paid £240K for the land?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on March 12, 2013, 10:11:55 AM
Quote from: Cllr Vera Tomlinson
“I recently saw a plan of Redhouse I believe I was not meant to see - it showed the Medical Centre removed and the land for the Community Centre reduced. I complained, and these have now reappeared on the latest version of the plan.

I had a meeting with Crest Nicholson recently about Redhouse Village Centre. There were two Crest Nicholson MDs and a lot of other Crest Nicholson people and myself. I asked them to build the Community Centre at their own cost and suggested they donate the land as well - they agreed to this. They have also agreed to put up three signs on the three plots to show that the plots of land are reserved for a Community Centre, a Medical Centre and a Restaurant/Pub. This is really good news for Redhouse.”


Interesting, not least because Cllr Tomlinson (V) had a meeting with no less than two managing Directors of Crest Nicolson, a lot of other Crest people and, (unless her grammar is appalling or she wanted sole credit), just her.  She seemed quite proud about it apparently.

I reckon, having worked so hard to 'secure' these things for the 'excellent' Redhouse residents, neither Cllr or MP Tomlinson will want the area blighted by another Class Solutions non-portable portacabin :)


Would this be the same Redhouse for which the planning system shows PA S/12/0711: application for 33 houses and a charge of £240,000 to SBC for the land for a community centre?

[url]http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000[/url] ([url]http://195.89.201.121/PublicAccess77/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=M45QHRPT97000[/url])


If Cllr Vera Tomlinson got Crest Nicholson to donate the land for the community centre - why has SBC just been charged £240K?

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on March 12, 2013, 10:13:34 AM
Sorry I posted the above twice by mistake.
Title: Schrodinger's cat is at it again... Cabinet report is out
Post by: jennyb on March 13, 2013, 08:17:14 AM
https://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=47929

Schrodinger's cat is at it again...

When is a site not a site for North Swindon?

I thought the Croft Inquiry report had reached the silly stage.. but this is a close runner for the gold cup. 

Read 3.19 in this report and have a laugh.

And... people are being paid good money to write this utter tosh!
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Mickraker on March 13, 2013, 08:34:51 AM
I read it and it says the best assessment is not really and it now needs another report to report on the report   :-\
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Outoftowner on March 13, 2013, 09:21:55 AM
In the report it says:

Quote
Open space is at a premium in the north and the restrictive size of the existing school sites and density of the development have made the search for a site very difficult.

If I was a "Planner" I'd plan essential facilities like schools into the original plan BEFORE the "density of the development" prevented it. But there again I'm probably not as clever as a "Planner".

(There are a whole lot of other things that I would plan in too but I don't want to bore anyone.)

P.S. I think that I'd call my plan something like, "Plan"; as opposed to a "Make it Up As I Go Along."
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on March 13, 2013, 11:15:58 AM
Outer, Outer at Northern Development ALL of that WAS planned in. Honestly we followed it very carefully at the start anyway. 

Something went wrong with the last bit at the Taw Hill end, can't think what that was!  somebody else might like to pinpoint the year it changed.  Well taw Hill was ok too, although that was at the extreme end, the development there, more or less works it's way back into the middle, so it  that bit thatt needs dating. 

Again, the housing density increase must have made a difference but the numbers went into smaller houses and higher and not taken inbto consideration.  The Master plan right back from the start contained all the necessaries for a good quality of life, it was only the density that went up, not the land covered.  i.e. so if you took an acre, that was all you took, and you either planted between 8 and 14 houses on or up to 25/35 houses on it. So the land was still there desingated for open open space, village centres, schools, etc. etc.

It could be that people's expectation was of having EVERY facility right to hand, and that was never going to happen.

I doubt that the developer ever promised to pay for a £240,000 community centre, they may well have promised to give the land, in fact that was probably requirement of planning permission.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Outoftowner on March 13, 2013, 12:52:44 PM
I understand a density increase often happens. It is before the higher density building is agreed that the school numbers / facilities need to be re-addressed.

Planners will always try to get 2.273 litres into a 1.1365 litre pot.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: komadori on March 13, 2013, 01:01:34 PM
There were also changes in government rules for minimum housing density that were made while that part of north Swindon was being developed.

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on March 13, 2013, 01:49:50 PM
The government edict on housing density DID happen and happened all at once, not in this case 'every now and then'. 

In other postings I have said that and can show you the first field to go that way in ND.

when ther eis a government edict, it usually take ssome time to seep down, this didn't. It DID almost happen overnight.  I have also said that I guessed it was due to the densities there was more need for schools etc, and acknowledged that someone wasn't keeping their eye on that particular ball.

Another doo-da, due to constant changes at SBC and constant changes in staff.

When people were saying there are too many people working at SBC, perhaps they didn't know what was going on in the inside. You can't keep building houses and talking about school places, when there ain't the blessed staff left that know what's what.  Expect more to come on that one. And when you don't listen to them that do! 

If you were wise and knew you had another town the size of Salisbury tacked on the side of your town, you wouldn't, unless you were a right numpty, vote to do it with less staff than you had been before - you would? Ah, you could get consultants in to do it, but then what would they know! and who holds the historic knowledge?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Spunkymonkey on March 13, 2013, 07:57:09 PM
In the report it says:

Quote
Open space is at a premium in the north and the restrictive size of the existing school sites and density of the development have made the search for a site very difficult.

If I was a "Planner" I'd plan essential facilities like schools into the original plan BEFORE the "density of the development" prevented it. But there again I'm probably not as clever as a "Planner".

(There are a whole lot of other things that I would plan in too but I don't want to bore anyone.)

P.S. I think that I'd call my plan something like, "Plan"; as opposed to a "Make it Up As I Go Along."

If space is at such a premium, why are the council promoting a single storey Class Solution?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on March 13, 2013, 10:54:38 PM
I read it and it says the best assessment is not really and it now needs another report to report on the report   :-\

A bit like an EU referendum... keep voting until you come up with the desired answer....

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on March 14, 2013, 08:03:07 AM
In the report it says:

Quote
Open space is at a premium in the north and the restrictive size of the existing school sites and density of the development have made the search for a site very difficult.

If I was a "Planner" I'd plan essential facilities like schools into the original plan BEFORE the "density of the development" prevented it. But there again I'm probably not as clever as a "Planner".

(There are a whole lot of other things that I would plan in too but I don't want to bore anyone.)

P.S. I think that I'd call my plan something like, "Plan"; as opposed to a "Make it Up As I Go Along."

If space is at such a premium, why are the council promoting a single storey Class Solution?

I'd beleive that the policy is to have single storey schools for primary schools, to doing with access issues and safety. I'm sure we'd all agree that disablity should not stop children going to the same school as their peers.
Title: Re: Schrodinger's cat is at it again... Cabinet report is out
Post by: jayjay on March 14, 2013, 11:52:21 AM
https://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=47929

Schrodinger's cat is at it again...

When is a site not a site for North Swindon?

I thought the Croft Inquiry report had reached the silly stage.. but this is a close runner for the gold cup. 

Read 3.19 in this report and have a laugh.

And... people are being paid good money to write this utter tosh!

Quote
3.19 In conclusion, the site assessment scoring brings the Tadpole Farm site out as
the best option. However, there is not much to separate the five sites as there is
no standout site and due to the complex nature of the options a recommended
option will follow in a supplementary report to this committee subject to further
consideration and negotiation.

There are five sites to choose from

Option 1 Mouldon Park - between the railway line and the river
Option 2 Mouldon Park - near the entrance
Option 3 Redhouse
Option 4 Clary Road
Option 5 Tadpole Farm

I have read various bits in the paper, and I though "Clary Road" was out because it was too far from where the children live, I thought they just passed planning permission for 33 houses/community centre at Redhouse, and Mouldon Park (Option1) had too many difficulties, so how can there be "not much to separate the five sites"?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on March 14, 2013, 05:58:44 PM

Having experienced the shenigans which took place to get Class Solutions on the Croft little of the behaviour of esteemed public servants surprises.

But of course, the Croft was all stitched up 'in camera'. But it will likely all out in the near future.

In the meantime, Mouldon Hill is playing out in the full glare of the spotlight.

Now why is Mouldon Hill so important?

Could it be that it might make Class Solutions look dainty?

Could it be that SCS will be the assemblers?

Could it be that in order to try to sell this to others one has to use it oneself?

Reading the output of our esteemed public servants as they tie themselves in knots to deliver Mouldon Hill for Class Solutions is akin to reading Hans Christian Andersen...

Whatever will happen next?

Who will tell the Emperor or could it be Empress? that they have no clothes ... now where's that child when you need him?

Oh wait, there he is in the distance ... off on a long journey to a school far far away..

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on March 16, 2013, 08:02:36 PM
I was listening the the national radio about the HS2 judgement.  The judge said the consultation process regarding compensation had been handled incorrectly.  During the item the reported refered to some person who had written a "best practice" document for consultation.  Unfortunately I didn't quite hear the name of the author so I've had a search of the web and came up with this link:-

http://www.bristol.gov.uk/page/council-and-democracy/code-good-practice-public-consultation#jump-link-4 (http://www.bristol.gov.uk/page/council-and-democracy/code-good-practice-public-consultation#jump-link-4)

And it identifies 7 key points:

Quote
Our seven consultation principles
 1.Time consultations well and allow sufficient time to respond.
 2.Clearly present relevant information and encourage informed opinion.
 3.Be well targeted and reach out to seldom heard groups.
 4.Offer genuine options and ask objective questions.
 5.Be well planned, managed and co-ordinated.
 6.Be listed on Consultation Finder and be well communicated.
 7.Provide fair, accessible feedback.

Quote
1.Time consultations well and allow sufficient time to respond.
 a.Consultations should be timed to allow the results to influence policy / proposal development.
 b.Wide scale public consultations, such as citywide or large parts of it, should run for a minimum period of six weeks.
 c.The timing of consultations should consider the availability of target groups. Consultations that are primarily focussed on the voluntary and community sector (VCS) should run for a minimum period of 12 weeks, in line with the Bristol Compact, to allow VCS organisations a fair opportunity to canvass the views of their members, service users and volunteers.
Quote
2.Clearly present relevant information and encourage informed opinion.
 a.The consultation should clearly state: the proposal, why we are consulting, and how we will use the findings.
 b.The consultation should provide enough information to enable consultees to give an informed opinion and not simply an instant reaction.
his information should be written in plain English.
Quote
3.Be well targeted and reach out to seldom heard groups.
 a.The views of those people / areas most affected by the proposal should be sought.
 b.Attempts should be made to listen to the views of non-users, especially when service changes are being consulted on.
 c.Attempts should be made to include the views of groups frequently excluded or overlooked.
 d.Consultations should consider the needs of people with impaired sight or hearing or people whose first language is not English.
Quote
4.Offer genuine options and ask objective questions.
 a.Where options are offered, they should be realistic and deliverable.
 b.Surveys and questions should be written in an objective way allowing people to express their views.
Quote
5.Be well planned, managed and coordinated.
 a.The council’s consultation toolkit contains step-by-step instructions to enable managers to effectvely manage consultations and avoid unnecessary duplication.
Quote
6.Be listed on consultation finder and be well communicated.
 a.We will publicise consultations and make attempts to let people know they are happening.
 b.Consultation finder lists all our  consultations in one place on the web.
 c.Major consultations e.g. citywide or affecting a large number of people - will be publicised by press release and we will use our publications such as Our City residents magazine - to publicise them.
Quote
7.Provide fair, accessible feedback.
 a.We will publish the findings of consultations and later how they have been used.
 b.The findings  will be reported in a balanced way.


This is Bristol's document, does Swindon has a similar one?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on March 17, 2013, 08:40:21 AM
The guide to Good practice on Consultation was posted here on TS a couple of years ago, 'cause I posted it.

Or at least the one developed by the Wiltshire Development Forum - Health Commission for Wiltshire and Bath - Wiltshire Social Services

Swindon did have a sort of policy but like like the rest of the policy documents it's no sooner printed and passed than it's holding up a wobbly legged table somewhere.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on March 17, 2013, 09:08:03 AM
Here you go:

http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=6256.30;wap2 (http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=6256.30;wap2)
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jayjay on March 18, 2013, 11:20:49 AM
If SBC know how they should be running consultations then why do they make such a mess of the them?
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on March 18, 2013, 02:49:34 PM
Because they don't come on  here to learn how to do it??
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Geoff Reid on March 20, 2013, 02:50:58 AM

'They' know full well how to consult properly.

'They' choose NOT to consult properly because to do so means they they would, more often than not, be pursuing their 'prefered option' despite their own consultation showing little or no public support for it.

It's considered politically expedient to run shoddy consultations and 'interpret' the results through a political kaleidoscope.


**************************************************
Posted from Galaxy Note using Tapatalk 2 App.

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on March 20, 2013, 07:57:04 AM
I know they SHOULD know how to do it Geoff, and they used to, and even then they used to leave it conventiently late sometimes  most of the time.

They even consulted on how to do consultation (I know because  I was at those meetings(
they were invariably written down and published and launched with much hoohah. Mostly they had to have them as a statutory requirement.

Then when push came to shove (politics and jobs) they forgot all about the policy - in fact I (and others like me) commented on this several times and we felt that as one department or another took up the challenge of not only asking us what we thought, but because we did contribute, embedding in us the idea that we had a right to be consulted.

Back ot that ONE DEPARTMENT doing  the consultation about consulting.  Any policy set was invarialbly consulted upon via one department.  But no one but that department in the borough, even the councillors that passed said policy, ever remembered it and it was not spread across all borough departments. 

We suggested that one day a week became 'training day' like they had in the shops at the time.  i.e. the first half hour - hour was set aside for staff training, keeping up with the latest borough policy. Every worker should read the copy  and then sign to say they would read it.
This was so we didn't embarrass the officers when we challenged it and any project could move ahead at once, rather than them having to catch up!

But since those days - not that long ago, so many staff have been made redundant that I would say MOST of those that are left and new staff do not even realise the importance of it, be aware of its existence, or even know about policies.

As most of them are so clever, why would they think they should ask us lot out here.

Just like the officers who didn't know Rod Bluh and who he was - neither do some of them understand they are public servants, or what working for a local authority means.  It's just a blooming job with a pay packet at the end of it just like everyone elses.
I'm not knocking them for that, some of them do their job well and others don't, just like anywhere else. 

And I bet that the Induction process there is at an all time low.

I beleive that the Borough heirachy do NOT know they should consult, it they do, why they should and do NOT know they have their own policy (well researched and consulted upon) that compels them to do it well.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Rincewind on June 06, 2013, 11:37:06 PM
Is there yet another chapter to be written in the North Swindon school place planning farce?

http://oakhurstresidents.org.uk/blog/2013/06/what-ward-councillor-says-and-what-leader-does (http://oakhurstresidents.org.uk/blog/2013/06/what-ward-councillor-says-and-what-leader-does)
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on June 07, 2013, 09:05:56 AM
It is of interest that Abbey Meads school is advertising places.

Could it be that as the first school built in the Northern Development, I'm trying to figure out how long ago that was - must be at least ten years ago, that a flurry of young families moved in and the children are now growing up and moving on to Secondary level, meaning that there are less children in the area to take up places?

This happens on all new development and is why schools closed at West Swindon. It's why schools are built smaller and have temporary buildings added to take the first flurry, which can be taken away should the population settle.

I can see the dilemma of school planning school provision, but don't know the answer.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on June 07, 2013, 02:24:10 PM
Children's services have what appears to be highly remunerated team in place who have 5 years information on reception place planning based on where children live.

Children's services have knowledge and input into decisions on planning of new developments.

Children's services didn't bother to attend the Tadpole Farm planning application  granted with NO primary provision in place until over 500 of the 1700 homes will be occupied.

Children's services forecast the need for additional North Swindon reception places in 2009 and were awarded £6,374,000 from the government.

Children's services were involved in the decision to give all of this money to the Croft.

Children's services own data showed there was no local need for the Croft and there is still none.

Children's services need to determine whether they are building schools based on where children live or where parents want to apply.

Because it doesn't seem as though there is money to do both or to mix and match.

Personally I can't see any dilemma in officers doing the job they are paid to do.

Based on the evidence, the problems facing North Swindon are a result of the actions taken by Children's services with the helpful hands of the new lead member for this department.

Reap what you sow comes to mind.

Which is scant comfort to North Swindon families.
 

And.. not clear whether Abbey Meads has any reception places going spare..

Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: the gorgon on June 07, 2013, 07:08:53 PM
SBC really ought to know what happens with schools, especially with all the estates (council and private) that have been built here since the war.

Houses are built, young couples buy them, there's a wave of kids going to primary then secondary school. People get older, school pupil numbers drop, people retire/move away.  Then 40-50 years after the houses were first built young families buy them again, pupil numbers increase (but probably never to the original peak).

Good quality temporary classrooms are available http://www.portableoffices.co.uk/content/3-Education-and-Training (http://www.portableoffices.co.uk/content/3-Education-and-Training) and when coupled with changes in school catchment areas some school building can be avoided.

If the catchment areas of East Wichel, Lethbridge and Lawn primaries were tweaked and a few temporary classrooms used Croft School need never have been built.
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Mart on June 07, 2013, 08:24:24 PM
SBC really ought to know what happens with schools, especially with all the estates (council and private) that have been built here since the war.

You'd think they'd have had enough practice, and a number of people are in fact paid wages to get it right. Generally speaking they also get 5 years warning of demand.

Bit like when they get surprised when Christmas turns up.

You can imagine the conversation 'Bugger me, the town is heaving (ish) what the feck is going on?'
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: Muggins on June 08, 2013, 08:53:32 AM
"SBC really ought to know what happens with schools, especially with all the estates (council and private) that have been built here since the war"

That's partially why I can't get my head around what happening now - when they were planning Northern development, they certainly seemed to have a grip on what they needed and what happens has the population of any area settles down.  As it happens, it seems that council estates (we'll call them that for ease of recognition) have enough inning and outing to maintain pretty well level numbers in their schools.  At Abbey Meads school, it stands between ALL private housing and Groundwell which is private and a goodly number of housing association, so you would suppose it would not have much trouble filling places/maintaining numbers.

I've said before that when the school buildings where planned, there was no housing planned for Groundwell, it was going to either halls of residence for the much hoped for Uni. or low rise warehousing. The schools, we were told (must have it here somewhere in writing) would be a the heart of their communities - both physically and mentally. It was intended they would also serve as the community centre. (that was never going to work!!)

I can't remember the logic of starting of the placing of the schools at the far end of their intended catchment areas, but it started with Abbey Meads and worked it's way along the development. 

I suggest this as reason that Abbey Meads has places too: Now that parents have a choice, that they are avoiding putting their children into the same school as council house kids. It wouldn't happen? No? You reckon?

Its an appalling attitude, but, I am afraid, out there.   
Title: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
Post by: jennyb on June 09, 2013, 12:45:42 PM
SBC really ought to know what happens with schools, especially with all the estates (council and private) that have been built here since the war.

Houses are built, young couples buy them, there's a wave of kids going to primary then secondary school. People get older, school pupil numbers drop, people retire/move away.  Then 40-50 years after the houses were first built young families buy them again, pupil numbers increase (but probably never to the original peak).

Good quality temporary classrooms are available [url]http://www.portableoffices.co.uk/content/3-Education-and-Training[/url] ([url]http://www.portableoffices.co.uk/content/3-Education-and-Training[/url]) and when coupled with changes in school catchment areas some school building can be avoided.

If the catchment areas of East Wichel, Lethbridge and Lawn primaries were tweaked and a few temporary classrooms used Croft School need never have been built.


There may have been many reasons that the Croft School was built.

Local need was never one of them. 

Shame on those who allowed this to happen to the detriment of the real need.