Talkswindon

Town Planning, Housing Developments, Transport & Education => Tadpole Farm Development => Topic started by: Ringer on January 10, 2011, 03:00:58 PM

Title: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Ringer on January 10, 2011, 03:00:58 PM
The Oakhurst Residents Association is holding a meeting about the expansion of houses, this is Tadpole Farm. It is interesting to Note Ridgeway Farm is going to impact on North Swindon. The traffic will move through Haydon Wick, Moredon and down through the west to the M4. The Link magazine has been pushing this for about 3 years, it looks like the chickens are coming home to roost. Never mind Freshbrook with 178 houses, there are ten times that  number on their way for one part of one site.
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/8779851.Traffic_fears_over_North__Swindon_homes_plan/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/8779851.Traffic_fears_over_North__Swindon_homes_plan/)

Tadpole Expressway will become a green lane? Can anyone comment on that from the North? New Road and Tunnel under the A419 is another interesting part of the  article.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on January 10, 2011, 08:25:10 PM
I suspect that this is another part of Swindon's countryside that is doomed to go under bricks and water. The emerging Swindon Core Strategy for Tadpole Farm (proposed by Swindon Borough Council) included the land-use policy copied in below.

I understand that the latest version of the Swindon Core Strategy will be going before SBC's cabinet meeting on 19 January as a draft document before it goes out for public consultation.

SSP9: Tadpole Farm

Provision will be made for a mixed-use community of 2,000 homes at Tadpole Farm.
Proposals for development at Tadpole Farm must:
i) Consider the cumulative impact of development with the other 3,000
homes to be provided as smaller scale urban extensions in Wiltshire
ii) Provide at least 35% affordable housing at a tenure mix in accordance
with CP4: Housing
iii) Make appropriate contributions towards the delivery of a new
multi-modal transport link between north and west Swindon and Swindon’s
Central Area
iv) Make appropriate contributions towards the delivery of a new secondary
school to meet demand generated by the cumulative impact of the
smaller scale urban extensions
v) Provide public transport links from the first phase of any new development
vi) Provide the equivalent of 1 new primary school or 2 forms-of-entry
on-site to meet demand with an additional one form-of-entry as
temporary accommodation to manage the temporary peak
vii) Provide around 5 hectares of employment land, this should provide for
smaller businesses and / or be associated with any energy facility
viii) Provide a neighbourhood centre, using a traditional ‘high-street’ model,
including local retail facilities, community facilities and other uses
appropriate to a mixed-use neighbourhood centre
ix) Provide a sustainable travel solution for all modes of transport including
links through Redhouse and Oakhurst
x) Protect and enhance Green Infrastructure links through the site between
Swindon and the countryside and support the objectives for the Cricklade
Country Way Corridor
xi) Provide an appropriate scale and range of formal and informal sport,
leisure and recreation areas in accordance with DMP8: Green
Infrastructure Principles
xii) Provide landscape mitigation measures in the form of tree-planting to the
north and east of the site to reduce the visual impact of development
92
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on March 12, 2011, 08:41:50 AM
So the great public consulation for Tadpole Farm has begun, with spin in full swing.  The plans on display were not really different to the leaked ones from the other year, traffic models seem to have estimated that from an estate or 1760 houses, only 600 cars are expected to leave the estate during a typical working morning, and there is no cosideration for West Swindon in the traffic impact analysis...

According to the Adver today over a hundred residents turned up - that is two or three times more than actually did turn up...

The Development Director from Crest is quoted as saying that "a lot of people will be reacting emotionally but the perception is different to the reality" - I say too right!  The reality for the residents will be very different from the perceptions of the developer!
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on March 12, 2011, 09:51:01 AM
Only 600 cars! On Thursday night after reading a comment from a councillor about the driving times being extended in west Swindon at 5.15/20 I thought I would drive to Morrissons in Haydon Wick. I thought mead Way will be out of the question as it builds up back to great Western Way. I went out the back way past Peatmoor school and noted that Traffic was backed up to Caso Paolo in Washpool waiting to move into Meads. I then wanted to cross over the railway bridge at Swindon & Cricklade Railway Blunsdon station. The traffic was backed up here both ways very badly.

I did not use the roundabout to go down Oakhurst way as traffic was stood at that so went up Tadpole Expressway and out to Thamesdown drive via St Andrews Ridge. I then turned right down Thamesdown drive it was backed up so went through Shepperton drive and came out of the back of ASDA this was a slow drive to Morrisons. I keft Morrisions at 18.15/20 and turned left up towards Akers way traffic was slow and at the roundabout with Akers way it was nose to tail all the way back until I turned off Meads and went through the industrial estate.

Traffic in west Swindon is already diabolical and traffic mangement flows are seriously stymied at rush hour times which is causing rat running.   What a journey just to go shopping at Morrisions to get items that only Morrisons stock/sell.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Chav on March 12, 2011, 10:04:05 AM
Only 600 cars! On Thursday night after reading a comment from a councillor about the driving times being extended in west Swindon at 5.15/20 I thought I would drive to Morrissons in Haydon Wick. I thought mead Way will be out of the question as it builds up back to great Western Way. I went out the back way past Peatmoor school and noted that Traffic was backed up to Caso Paolo in Washpool waiting to move into Meads. I then wanted to cross over the railway bridge at Swindon & Cricklade Railway Blunsdon station. The traffic was backed up here both ways very badly.

I did not use the roundabout to go down Oakhurst way as traffic was stood at that so went up Tadpole Expressway and out to Thamesdown drive via St Andrews Ridge. I then turned right down Thamesdown drive it was backed up so went through Shepperton drive and came out of the back of ASDA this was a slow drive to Morrisons. I keft Morrisions at 18.15/20 and turned left up towards Akers way traffic was slow and at the roundabout with Akers way it was nose to tail all the way back until I turned off Meads and went through the industrial estate.

Traffic in west Swindon is already diabolical and traffic mangement flows are seriously stymied at rush hour times which is causing rat running.   What a journey just to go shopping at Morrisions to get items that only Morrisons stock/sell.

Was it worth it Mr W ?

I mean - did you find any bargains in Morrisons  >:D

Anything to write home about in the 'reduced isle' ?  :angel:

I bet you purchased a 'tiger loaf and a big block of mature cheddar' innit !


Joking aside - Yes the traffic around those areas mentioned is pretty bad at times !

I wonder what it will be liked if/when the Tadpole farm development goes ahead  :-\

Incidently - did anyone attend the meeting re: the Tadpole Farm development at Isambard school last night ?


Chavster  :angel:
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on November 21, 2011, 08:02:31 PM
Evidently a planning application for Tadpole Farm has been submitted to SBC in outline. We learnt this fact at the Coate planning inquiry. No details yet, and obviously SBC hasn't put the paperwork together to inform anyone.

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on November 21, 2011, 10:33:41 PM
Application reference is S/11/1588 - no details as it is just an outline planning application for 1700 houses with access from Tadpole Lane...
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: bobwright on November 21, 2011, 11:05:15 PM
Without a sensible road policy it is difficult to see how any development will improve life for old and new Swindon residents.

It is expected Swindon will continue to expand due to various interests. A local plan should be in place to address future needs and to assist in sensible and desirable development. The absence of such a plan may be regarded as negligence. Development may be regarded as a positive thing but not if it is not controlled or rides on the back of systems that are already overloaded. The North Swindon affect travels all the way to the Town Centre. Steve has illustrated the West Swindon outcome, just try travelling along residential roads in Central Ward which have to bear incoming and departing traffic. We need an intergrated transport plan connecting all means of travel as well as providing suitable roads.

Crucially Fleming Way was designed to fly over the railway and connect with North Star Avenue. This project was put on hold and then stymied by office development. I think this needs reflecting on again as more offices are proposed which will actually get rid of part of Fleming Way as we know it. Over 20 years ago Western Ward councillors sought an alternative to Cheney Manor Road to take a traffic load equal to the population of Salisbury away from existing residential roads. Whilst a roundabout has been put into B & Q we need an actual road. You can't say it can't be done, it has happened in Wichelstowe.
 
 A Cricket pitch whilst 'nice' is hardly a key feature demanded by existing residents sorting out the traffic is.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: the gorgon on November 22, 2011, 08:39:51 AM
Wow Bob never knew that about Fleming Way, makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Richard Beale on November 22, 2011, 05:54:20 PM
A Cricket pitch whilst 'nice' is hardly a key feature demanded by existing residents sorting out the traffic is.

And just who will use the pitch, when Cricket as a local sport is dying off.... There aren't enough teams to sustain the ones we've got

Sad but true.....
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Muggins on November 22, 2011, 06:31:09 PM
What no cricket, I suppose they will turn to ski-ing instead?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 02, 2012, 09:41:58 AM
Some interesting gossip up here.  Councillors at SBC are demonstrating how connected they are to the electorate.  Thousands in North Swindon have spoken against development at Tadpole Farm in the last few months but the Councillors know best.  About 240 houses to be delivered by 2018 - that should solve the five-year housing supply issues!!

Does the Leader really believe that the infrastructure is in place?  What - promises of infrastructure in a few years time.  Yeah, we've heard that before.  The NDA bears testament to the non-delivery of infrastructure.  Also the opposiition leader is still saying that he's for Tadpole Farm.  He should have listened to the electorate and worked out that the infrastructure debate couldn't be solved.  So, it should have been a NO!  Could have been a vote winner up here rather than 85% of voters reluctant to place their X for the Tories.



Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 02, 2012, 10:06:00 AM
The infrastructure that is in place is creaking at the seams and at the recent appeal re the Ridgeway Farm development. Shaw residents gave a report on the impact of traffic in Shaw, Mannington Western. 

http://www.shawresidents.org.uk/index_files/docs/community%20submission.pdf (http://www.shawresidents.org.uk/index_files/docs/community%20submission.pdf)

Summary http://www.shawresidents.org.uk/index_files/docs/sum%20up.pdf (http://www.shawresidents.org.uk/index_files/docs/sum%20up.pdf)

Priory Vale did have a low turn out, but back to infrastructure I heard that there was a traffic survey being undertaken in Oakhurst yesterday. I was surprised at that as I thought at a  time when Tadpole Lane is closed and on a day before Diamond Jubilee weekend it may not be A typical of traffic in that area.

Proof that TS is being read in real time since posting this I have been contacted by email. It is claimed that the traffic count/survey was in Longworth Drive yesterday.
 
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 02, 2012, 10:52:32 AM
So Shaw Residents have done that?  If they can do that then why don't councillors do the same?  I hear that Oakhurst has a residents association who have been leading a campaign driven by residents for residents.  Their ex-councillors and current councillors are perceived to have done very little.  Did any of them appear at the Ridgeway Farm appeal to speak up on behalf of their residents?

The North Swindon MP, who was a councillor for 10 years, is perceived to have contributed to the hurt that Priory Vale residents feel and the general feeling of being let down by the politicians who they voted to represent them.

Cllr Bluh has been to meetings in Oakhurst and given an undertaking to do a traffic survey.  Where is it?  It appears that Conservative councillors say one thing and do the opposite or worse still it is perceived they don't appear to do anything.  The other thing that is very difficult to do is to interact with councillors and others at the Borough who say that is what I said but that is not what I meant or you have interpreted what I said in a different way to me.  It's akin to saying I don't recollect saying that.

And the people round here wonder why they are paying a Parish rate.   The Parish seems to be acquiescing to what the big boys are doing.  Blunsdon Parish and Haydon Wick Parish should be in the vanguard here and not standing in the shadow of SBC.  My mother always said that the best disinfectant is sunlight.  Has this got anything to do with the governance review of the Parish Councils?



Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: George Elliot on June 02, 2012, 03:02:10 PM
Mr Grumpy

Don't be too hard on Parish Councils they do from what I know get involved in a big way with planning applications. I believe Swindon has recognised that and if I recall want to take planning powers or rights from parish councillors.

I am sure if parish councils can exercise so much invective over planning applications for porches, conservatories, signs and garages etc. Then they must be salivating at the mere thought of involvement with such an issue as a big housing development and it's roads, schools etc.

Or do they only deal with signs, porches, conservatories, stables, caravans on agricultural land conversion of properties for holiday let and not forgetting garages? 
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 02, 2012, 05:44:36 PM
I'm afraid what we are seeing with the Tory Council's unstoppable thirst to build more houses in the North of Swindon is part of the fall out from the Tory's plan to win the marginal seats of Swindon at the last general election. North and South Swindon were Tory/Labour marginals at last election and dear Mr Cameron had to win these seats to have any chance of forming a Government. Cameron even came to Greendown School before last election - I was in the audience that day. The Tories had a problem though - East Swindon. The Labour Government's planning framework - Regional Spatial Strategy for South West - called for 30,000+ houses to be built in Swindon, 17,000 of which to be built in East Swindon. Why would that be a problem when a decade's worth of evidence which informed the RSS said development to the East was the most sustainable direction of growth for Swindon? The problem was this was a "very inconvenient truth" to the Tories because East Swindon is full of Tory voters who were understandably very unhappy about the thought of 17,000 new houses in their backyard. So much so that the Tories were afraid that loss of Tory votes in the East of Swindon could scupper their plans to take the marginal seats. What did they do? The Tory council re-wrote the Local Plan scaling back the size of development significantly in the East (by a greater % than anywhere else). The outcome of this was that other "less sustainable locations" in Swindon had to accommodate housing. Tadpole Farm is one of these locations.

Peter Greenhalgh is on record at a public meeting in one of the Eastern villages as saying " we won't repeat the mistakes we made in North Swindon" here in the East. What mistakes might these be? Lack of infrastructure perhaps? For example the Purton-Iffley Road Link in the North - a condition attached to the Haydon 3 agreement. Never transpired. Well guess what? Greenhalgh's admission about mistakes in the North are about to be repeated...in the North again at Tadpole Farm. Probably about as unsustainable location as you can find requring a new Link Road to the A419 to be built, significant investment required to upgrade wastewater network at near-full capacity, inadequate primary and secondary school places. Even Thames Water and the Highways Agency say only 300 of the 1700 houses can be built without the network and highways upgrade. The developers say a link road will be built but not until 2020 after they have built Phase 1 of 300 houses. By that time Crest will have buggered off and sold the land to other developers. Those developers will almost certainly negotiate away the need for an expensive link road with the council - which neither can afford anyway. The Council couldn't get a grant for Purton-Iffley in more prosperous times - how the hell are they going to get one when the Government coffers are empty. They won't.

By this time The Tory council will be gone and the new Labour administration will be picking up the pieces!
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: George Elliot on June 02, 2012, 05:54:47 PM
Quote
By this time The Tory council will be gone and the new Labour administration will be picking up the pieces!


If they do no doubt the Tories will be reminding people it was Labour that voted for it, because the planning committee is representative of all parties.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 02, 2012, 06:22:03 PM
"If they do no doubt the Tories will be reminding people it was Labour that voted for it, because the planning committee is representative of all parties."

Indeed. If they do... they will have fallen into the Tory "trap"!  :spin:
Title: Tadpole Farm Planning Application 12th June 2012
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 02, 2012, 07:55:48 PM
Development and Expansion in North Swindon needs  the Purton Iffley Road Link and a spine road up to the A419. This will alleviate traffic in West Swindon, so I all for it being built. I think I understand GE in respect of parish councils, however the matter of the allocation of North S106 monies has been  a matter, which I believe both Blunsdon  and HW have been pursuing.

Cllr Renard attends the HW meetings I have seen him there and I have no doubt that like some other councillors do with their respective PCs. Cllr Barnet and Cllr Ellis probably have a good working relationship with HW.  Cllr Peter Heaton-Jones until he retired recently from it was a member of the HW parish. I attended a public meeting in Blunsdon about the Tadpole proposal and I belive it had members of the parish in attendance.

It is a case of who will turn up at the planning meeting and speak about the development. I shall be attending and hope to see councillors from wards and parishes who have questions/objections to this development and it's infrastructure implications and requirements.

I have included a link here for a lst of documents to do with the application S/11/1588 http://194.73.99.13:8080/WAM/showCaseFile.do?appType=Planning&appNumber=S/11/1588 (http://194.73.99.13:8080/WAM/showCaseFile.do?appType=Planning&appNumber=S/11/1588)
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 02, 2012, 09:03:19 PM
"Development and Expansion in North Swindon needs  the Purton Iffley Road Link and a spine road up to the A419. This will alleviate traffic in West Swindon, so I all for it being built."

100% agree that further development and expansion in North needs those two roads, but the current administration does not think the former is needed (Purton-Iffley) and seems happy to defer the building of the latter to some time after 2020 - if indeed ever!

Let's get real here. Purton-Iffley is unlikely to be ever built because it costs $100 million quid, The Northern Link road to A419 will cost a tidy penny too and in my opinion will go the same way as Purton-Iffley. There is no planning obligation on it to make its building legally enforceable as part of Crest's Tadpole Farm application only a condition, as was Purton-Iffley. The developers won't pay for them. The council would either have to get a Government grant (unlikely) or some future administration borrow money to pay for them. It ain't gonna happen.

North and West Swindon will be left with more houses and and even greater infrastructure deficit than it has now.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Geoff Reid on June 03, 2012, 02:51:50 AM
Cllr Bluh has been to meetings in Oakhurst and given an undertaking to do a traffic survey.  Where is it?

Anecdotal: I have been told more than once that Councillor Bluh has denied ever making that promise.

Balancing probabilities with my own experience of the 'worth' of his promises, I could easily believe that he did make that promise, and made it unambiguously and in such a manner as to make it undeserving of any other interpretation than the one reached by those to whom he made that promise.

Put bluntly: I don't accept a damn word that politician says as being true until I've verified it really is true.  He's big on lecturing others for what he opportunely perceives as attacks on his 'integrity, but does his political behaviour and dealings with the general public suggest that he is intimately familiar with the meaning of integrity or veracity?

The truth is not open to interpretation. You cannot be 'a little bit pregnant', 'partly catholic' or 'mostly male'. You either are, or you are not, and Cllr Bluh either did, or did not make that promise.  I believe those that said he did make that promise because I cannot see any good reason for them to lie about it.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Smiler on June 03, 2012, 09:29:39 AM
In the main I agree with you Steve but do you really believe that many of the Borough Councillors have a reciprocal relationship with the Parishes?  Are you speaking as a Councillor whose ward is Parished?  I believe that the Parishes are useful if there is something the Borough Councillors want.  Look at the S.106 issue – was there any consultation with the Parishes about how the money was spent?  Which side believes it holds the balance of power in this relationship?
 
I have heard that Cllrs Renard and Barnett paid a visit to Haydon Wick Parish Council on 30th May 2012 for an informal discussion on matters of local importance to them. As I’m sure you already know, the Parishes don’t do informal discussion and they are very strict on governance.  That’s why they employ clerks who are efficient and provide detailed minutes of all Parish proceedings.

I have reason to believe that the discussions were about the construction of a new indoor bowls club, traffic calming on Thames Avenue and the Tadpole Farm planning application.  The Borough Councillors, I hear, mentioned the likely loss on appeal if this application was turned down by the Borough Planning Committee.  I think there has already been a front page article about this subject in the Adver concerning the cost of the Coate appeal.

My understanding is the Parish Councillors will be returning the compliment and attending the Borough Planning Committee on 12th June on matters of local importance to them.  However, will they receive such a friendly reception or be so efficiently minuted?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 03, 2012, 10:20:51 AM
In the main I agree with you Steve but do you really believe that many of the Borough Councillors have a reciprocal relationship with the Parishes?  Are you speaking as a Councillor whose ward is Parished?


No, but if it was parished I would work with them, as parishes appear to provide well run allotments and introduced dog poo bins years before some Unitaries/District council's did. As mentioned on another thread cutting the grass, but not to forget street lighting recreation and playgrounds etc. All are well maintained, I don't know if it is the case, but I was told that Stratton PC used to collect the household refuse in its area.

I believe that the Parishes are useful if there is something the Borough Councillors want.  Look at the S.106 issue – was there any consultation with the Parishes about how the money was spent?  Which side believes it holds the balance of power in this relationship?


I believe the scrutiny of Haydon S106 is still someway off being done and dusted.

I have heard that Cllrs Renard and Barnett paid a visit to Haydon Wick Parish Council on 30th May 2012 for an informal discussion on matters of local importance to them. As I’m sure you already know, the Parishes don’t do informal discussion and they are very strict on governance.  That’s why they employ clerks who are efficient and provide detailed minutes of all Parish proceedings.


I agree parish minutes and records are comprehensive and informative, for example athey are easily found on the Haydonwick website.  :clap:

I have reason to believe that the discussions were about the construction of a new indoor bowls club, 
Do you know if that a parish council provided club? Will the people of Haydonwick be paying for it? Please tell us more have parish councillors voted on the matter? [/quote]

 
traffic calming on Thames Avenue

Labour knocked some doors during the election and people belived the Parish has been poor in including them in this change why do the parish want to change it? BTW if you get a petition up for SBC this may be a multi ward issue as I shop there and visit the community centre, friends and Parish Offices ther, so check it out first, whether it is a single ward issue.

and the Tadpole Farm planning application. The Borough Councillors, I hear, mentioned the likely loss on appeal if this application was turned down by the Borough Planning Committee.  I think there has already been a front page article about this subject in the Adver concerning the cost of the Coate appeal.


Is this what you are talking about? http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/9729672.Coate_battle_cost_council___226_000/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/9729672.Coate_battle_cost_council___226_000/)

My understanding is the Parish Councillors will be returning the compliment and attending the Borough Planning Committee on 12th June on matters of local importance to them.  However, will they receive such a friendly reception or be so efficiently minuted?


I look forward to seeing them as Mannington Western, Shaw will be affected by this development. If they can object to Ridgeway Farm that is only going to be about 25% of the size of Tadpole then more hands to the pump will be welcomed.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 03, 2012, 10:57:04 AM
Geoff, no doubt people have told you what Cllr Rod Bluh said that night as there were over 100 members of the public present.  On the panel with him were Justin Tomlinson MP, Cllrs Tomlinson, Stoddart, Peter Heaton-Jones, Mark Dempsey, Mark Viner (Labour candidate for Abbey Meads) and senior officers from SBC.  The meeting was chaired by Graham Mack from the BBC, who also recorded it, and there were several Borough Councillors (Moffatt, Russell and Wakefield), Chairmen from Blunsdon St Andrew and Haydon Wick Parish Councils and committee members from local Residents' Associations in the audience who contributed to the discussion.  I believe as well that ORA minuted the evening and took a list of attendees.  It was a well organised meeting after which you can assume that ORA almost certainly followed up “the promise”.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: George Elliot on June 03, 2012, 12:30:04 PM
Let me see if I have grasped this Cllr Rod Bluh is in a room with over a hundred people, councillors, an MP and the BBC and he believes he is right and they are wrong?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Mart on June 03, 2012, 12:46:29 PM
Let me see if I have grasped this Cllr Rod Bluh is in a room with over a hundred people, councillors, an MP and the BBC and he believes he is right and they are wrong?

Fervently.

In my limited experience he has a highly individual belief set.

WiFi is good and the catalyst for the latest IT / Comms investment in Swindon.

The College was absolutely going to be demolished years ago.

Mr Reid is a Nazi.

We need a car park with fins on.

All services are being maintained at their previous levels.

Fervently. Oh yes.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Smiler on June 03, 2012, 01:17:55 PM
I am not as expert as some Borough councillors but for your information Steve you can learn a lot from the minutes of Haydon Wick Parish Council.  From what I have read there is a little confusion about whether Cllr Barnett approached the Parish as a Borough councillor, a Haydon Wick Bowls Club member or as a resident as some of the minutes have been confidential.  I think that the Chairman, Cllr Hailstone, is a member of Haydon Wick bowls club as is the Vice-Chairman, Cllr Fuller.  Perhaps someone could tell me who should have declared what interest in this matter?

The ex-Borough indoor bowls facility at the Oasis will not be continued as part of the privately-financed improvements.  One of the biggest reasons appears to have been that it was not cost-effective.  The proposal is to build an extension to the leisure facility in Haydon Wick and let the Parish pay the running costs.  This would mean passing on a potentially loss-making project to the parishioners.

HWPC has put this through all their committees and through Full Council and the answer has been no.  The main reason given is that the indoor bowls facility is a Borough responsibility and should not be transferred to the Parish.  Also the play area is popular and the Parish is seen to have more services for its older parishioners.  The Parish councillors are keen to serve all of their parishioners equally to use the precept wisely.

The Parish has not been consulted about changes to the traffic calming in Thames Avenue either.  This is a Haydon Wick Borough Councillors initiative  (please see 1.1 of 10th April HWPC Policy Committee)

Quote
1.1   Removal of Speed Tables

Haydon Wick Ward Councillors have responded to the comments the Parish Council made about the poll on their website with regard to the proposal to remove the speed tables adjacent to Morrison’s and the Haydon Centre:

"We conduct polls on our web site all year round and this issue has never been raised before.  Is the Parish Council suggesting we should let them have sight of every poll before we put it up? This is ridiculous. We’re not asking residents to make a decision, we’re just asking them whether they think it merits further investigation.

So if we had consulted the Parish Council first and they didn’t like it, is the suggestion that we should have ignored the issue even though residents are raising it with us? Hardly democratic is it?
"


 

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: George Elliot on June 03, 2012, 02:14:49 PM
Declare an interest who the borough councillor or the Chairman  that depend on the meeting surely.

I like the minute you have put up as it gives an impression that to question them is ridiculous unless you agree that their course of action merits further investigation. That is borough councillor democracy in action surely. As they say they are not asking residents to make a decision. Libdems  would not act that way surely.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 03, 2012, 05:25:47 PM
Back on topic, the matter that is causing families personal concern in North Swindon is school places. I have spoken to people who are finding it difficult to have their preferences met. Some are having to take their children on long journeys As they have no transport and public transport is a bit erratic or non existent between the schools offered it is causing anxiety and strain.

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Bobby Bingo on June 03, 2012, 06:42:02 PM
The clerk to Covingham Parish Council is now Mrs. Tomlinson - No not our Vera she is Justins Mum - this Mrs Tomlinson has just become Justins wife.
Will this mean that Covingham Parish Council will now have a direct lead into Parliament?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Muggins on June 03, 2012, 07:24:21 PM
How come Covingham is a Parish all on it's own?

That will be a bit uncomfortable for them, as she is their employee, or to put it another way, they are her employers.

Will that mean that she may have to leave the meetings often, declaring an interest or anything?
 
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: jennyb on June 04, 2012, 07:33:50 AM
Back on topic, the matter that is causing families personal concern in North Swindon is school places. I have spoken to people who are finding it difficult to have their preferences met. Some are having to take their children on long journeys As they have no transport and public transport is a bit erratic or non existent between the schools offered it is causing anxiety and strain.

Tadpole Farm is due to go to planning on June 12th 2012.

Using SBC’s calculations, Tadpole Farm’s 1700 homes will generate 391 Primary Children and 317 Secondary Children who will need to be schooled.

Based on what I have read, The Tadpole Farm traffic assessments assume all primary children will travel to school inside the development but Crest/SBC offer no plan for a primary school on the development.

For the Northern Sector (the closest area to Tadpole Farm), based on Sep 2012 numbers
·         School Capacity of 540  –  PCT of  592  =  52 reception space shortfall .   

Crest state that building the primary school too early could mean it fills up with Children from other areas. As any new school must be an Academy they may draw their own catchment. Officers know this.

The Croft was presented to the Planning Committee with a 1km traffic assessment which the Officers knew was invalidated as the school was to be an Academy.

If SBC could build East Wichel and Croft and fund them to fill up over up to 7 years why is this same logic not applicable for Tadpole Farm?

There is also the small matter of the 2009 DfE primary school funding received based on a need in North( 295) and Central Swindon(173) but allocated to Old Town (13) for the Croft.

If children have to travel to primary school, traffic will increase as a result. This applies to both the Croft and Tadpole Farm. In the case of Tadpole Farm, where would the primary children have to travel to?

A planning application for 1700 homes with no clear education provision and an invalid traffic assessment cannot be viable and should be deferred until the appropriate information can be provided. In the case of schools information, according to Officers, that would mean Sep 2012.

If approval is recommended, in my opinion ,this is a very serious matter.

Cllr Martin , a member of the planning committee, stated in the 16/3/2012 Swindon Link that Tadpole Farm has all the necessary infrastructure in place. Perhaps he has seen other information?

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: George Elliot on June 04, 2012, 08:31:35 AM
Back on topic, the matter that is causing families personal concern in North Swindon is school places. I have spoken to people who are finding it difficult to have their preferences met. Some are having to take their children on long journeys As they have no transport and public transport is a bit erratic or non existent between the schools offered it is causing anxiety and strain.

Tadpole Farm is due to go to planning on June 12th 2012.

Using SBC’s calculations, Tadpole Farm’s 1700 homes will generate 391 Primary Children and 317 Secondary Children who will need to be schooled.

Based on what I have read, The Tadpole Farm traffic assessments assume all primary children will travel to school inside the development but Crest/SBC offer no plan for a primary school on the development.

For the Northern Sector (the closest area to Tadpole Farm), based on Sep 2012 numbers
·         School Capacity of 540  –  PCT of  592  =  52 reception space shortfall .   

Crest state that building the primary school too early could mean it fills up with Children from other areas. As any new school must be an Academy they may draw their own catchment. Officers know this.

The Croft was presented to the Planning Committee with a 1km traffic assessment which the Officers knew was invalidated as the school was to be an Academy.

If SBC could build East Wichel and Croft and fund them to fill up over up to 7 years why is this same logic not applicable for Tadpole Farm?

There is also the small matter of the 2009 DfE primary school funding received based on a need in North( 295) and Central Swindon(173) but allocated to Old Town (13) for the Croft.

If children have to travel to primary school, traffic will increase as a result. This applies to both the Croft and Tadpole Farm. In the case of Tadpole Farm, where would the primary children have to travel to?

A planning application for 1700 homes with no clear education provision and an invalid traffic assessment cannot be viable and should be deferred until the appropriate information can be provided. In the case of schools information, according to Officers, that would mean Sep 2012.

If approval is recommended, in my opinion ,this is a very serious matter.

Cllr Martin , a member of the planning committee, stated in the 16/3/2012 Swindon Link that Tadpole Farm has all the necessary infrastructure in place. Perhaps he has seen other information?

Your post makes a good point about the principle of if it is good for East Whichel and Croft why is it not good enough for Tadpole. Is it anything to do with what has happened in recent years as one of the contributing factors is the local Tory MP Justin Tomlinson was a Tory on SBC in Abeymeads for 10 years. Coincidentialy the period  during which the building of North Swindon was going full speed.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Smiler on June 04, 2012, 09:56:47 AM
Thanks for highlighting the education and highways issues at Tadpole jennyb but I strongly recommend that you read the officers report for Tadpole.  If you think that the situation was dire before then the report makes gruesome reading for the residents up in the NDA.  Have the MP and councillors heard the expression hang your head in shame?

pg. 86 of the report
Quote
Primary Education (unless provided by developer) £5,077,986, Secondary Education (directed to Isambard Community and Highworth Warneford Schools) £2,725,352, Special Education Needs (SEN) £25,000, Leisure £275,000, Combined Transport Package (see transport tables 7 & 8) £2,229,500....Community Facility (to be provided by developer at a cost up to) £275,384, Administrative Fee £75,000

Infrastructure items delivered at additional developer cost

Delivery of two Form of Entry Primary School (if not delivered as a financial payment);


The recommendation at pg. 15 of the report
Quote
that the Head of Planning be authorised to GRANT outline planning permission under delegated authority and approve the reserved matters in respect of the means of access subject to:
i Completion of a legal agreement to secure the planning obligations that are material to the decision; and,
ii The conditions set out this report, with delegated authority to make reasonable amendments to those conditions before issuing formal consent as may be necessary

On a quick glance it looks like the administrative fee is more than the mitigation of one of the local roads which gets £60,000 for two crossings and the benefit of 45% of the traffic from the new development.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Richard Symonds on June 04, 2012, 10:33:01 AM
The College was absolutely going to be demolished years ago.

It may have started but when will it be finished?  A friend commented that it was the slowest demolition he could remember, so now that the elections are over and Rod is re established in Euclid Street and the Liberals are returned in Eastcott will we still be talking about this in two years time?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 04, 2012, 11:01:48 AM
Sticking to the issue of development at Tadpole Farm, it seems that yet again the existing communities are getting a very raw deal.

Effectively no school places, no traffic mitigation and councilors who are happy to hide behind the skirts of officers when there is a decision to be made!
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 04, 2012, 12:12:44 PM
Is it just me but one cannot fail to see the irony in the Officers recommendation that the decision on Tadpole Farm should be taken by delegated authority by the Head of Planning! What is the planning committee's job then? If it's not to make planning decisions then we can quickly identify another public spending cut for Mr Bluh!

The first real test of Localism in the borough on a huge and controversial development and the recommendation of an unelected official is that the decision should not be taken by democratically elected representatives but by another unelected apparatchik (his boss!).

We are not talking about a decision on an extension to Joe Blogg's house here but a huge expansion of housing into the countryside to the north of the town with massive impacts on both the north and west of the town.

This has Rhod Bluh's fingerprints all over it. That man should be working for the EU - they appreciate politicians with his partcular "skill set" there - ability to break promises and ignore democratic process :wakeup:. Quicker he goes the better.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: I Could Do That on June 04, 2012, 01:07:38 PM
The first real test of Localism in the borough on a huge and controversial development

I would say that "honour" went to Coate.

I asked at the Coate planning meeting " if SBC and the planning committee have no authority, what is the point of having a town council? Why are we here?"

Somebody else then made the suggestion  "If you can't stop this development, get out. Get some officers in who can"



Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Techie on June 04, 2012, 01:12:07 PM
Dear Sirs

?
Re: Planning application for Tadpole Farm

There has to be a completely separate road/estate system for the house owners to travel to and from Swindon - Oakhurst is already congested during the rush hour periods.

We already have a style of Milton Keynes in the northern sector - a mass of personality-less’ housing with no heart.

Similarly, any such new estate should be carefully constructed to ensure that existing occasional flooding in Tadpole Lane is not exacerbated.


?
Kindest regards
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: jennyb on June 04, 2012, 02:13:12 PM
In my experience, the public, our opinions and concerns are of no interest whatsoever to those who run Swindon.

Unelected public servants already have too much power vested in them and use these powers in a draconian fashion to push through developments of whatever quality across the length and breadth of Swindon.

All they need to do is to say the magic words 'condition' or 'mitigation money' to the planning committee and they will nod their heads in approval and say that this can be dealt with later.  If later ever comes...

In my experience over the last 2 years the only topics which appear to affect the level of attention shown to momentous decisions which affect large swathes of the population ... is the months of March and April ...or the lack of S106 money.

As to who influences the unelected public servants ..... all you need to know is that it isn't you..

The Swindon we live in and see developing before of us is a result of the quality and consideration shown by those in post to serve us.

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: swindonlinkman on June 04, 2012, 02:25:42 PM
Crest Strategic Planning to give Tadpole Farm land to Wiltshire Wildlife Trust if Swindon Council agree planning application on 12 June

http://www.swindonlink.com/news/north-swindon-could-have-100-acre-nature-park-in-return-for-1700-houses (http://www.swindonlink.com/news/north-swindon-could-have-100-acre-nature-park-in-return-for-1700-houses)

Wiltshire Wildlife Trust accused of accepting land and money at the expense of long term implications for North Swindon residents

http://www.swindonlink.com/news/wilts-wildlife-trust-condemned-for-crest-deal (http://www.swindonlink.com/news/wilts-wildlife-trust-condemned-for-crest-deal)
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: jennyb on June 04, 2012, 04:16:42 PM
From Swindon Borough Council Children's services annals... 

Jan 2009 : East Wichel Primary school was delayed due to the recession.

Nov 2009 : East Wichel Primary school was needed... but the East Wichel site was too dangerous therefore it had to be built on the Croft.

Dec 2009: The Government was told that a temporary 60 pupil school was needed. SBC's own data showed 96 spaces in the schools included in the submission.

Dec 2009: £6.374m primary school provision allocated to SBC based on need of 275 in North Swindon, 173 in Central and 13 in Old Town all allocated to the Croft. 

Feb 2010: 3 Parents were offered places at the Temp School. No residents had been notified of the building and no planning application had been submitted.

Sep 2010 :60 place Temp school opened on Croft to 3 pupils and closed in Jul 2011 with 16.

Jul 2011: East Wichel permanent 2fe/420 pupil school opens for all year groups.

Feb 2012: Temp School finally removed having been empty for around 7 months.

East Wichel has approval for approx 838 houses which = 193 primary school children.

East Wichel catchment only covers East Wichel.

East Wichel is still being built...occupancy is, I believe,  around 500 homes.

East Wichel school has , I believe, less than 150 pupils.

The Croft School is about 1000 yards from East Wichel. Won't bore you with all the details...

Compare and constrast ... Primary place provision for ...East Wichel.. Croft...Northern Sector...Tadpole Farm...

Children's Services is responsible for all of this.

They will advise the planners. The planners will advise the planning committee.

Cllr Martin has already stated his position re Tadpole Farm infrastructure. Perhaps he knows where the children would have to go to school? Or is this as secret as the Primary School Admissions for Sep 2012?


 
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Muggins on June 04, 2012, 04:55:31 PM
"Wiltshire Wildlife Trust accused of accepting land and money at the expense of long term implications for North Swindon residents"

I and others have been disturbed for some time about the survival methods like this.  They don't fight the fight to the end, but get 'the best deal they can' in case they can't make a deal  later in the process. 

I really don't want to think it, but I can't come to any other conclusion, that they now survive to look after their own specialist sites (important though they are) and this all came about when we were told that charities had to be more businesslike (not to be a business) but this is what happens, this is the result - smaller sites get 'sold out'. 

I phoned our local officer a couple of weeks ago, only to find that WWT has retrenched back to Devizes, so no Swindon office.  We're doomed, Wiltshire wildlife can't trust the Wiltshire Wildlife Trust.  Especially if it live in Swindon Borough.

They simply don't have the money and I think now that they don't even have the will to put up a fight.

He who pays the piper calls the tune.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 04, 2012, 07:38:33 PM
"Cllr Martin has already stated his position re Tadpole Farm infrastructure. Perhaps he knows where the children would have to go to school? Or is this as secret as the Primary School Admissions for Sep 2012?"

Taylor Wimpey have got a nice big surprise lined up for Cllr Martin! If he's worried about 700 houses at Ridgeway then I have two words for him...Pry Farm. Watch this space.
 :banana:
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 04, 2012, 08:15:41 PM
I want to now turn to the troublesome issue of "5 year housing land supply". The current administrations figures are based on historical build rates in Swindon. This is how they ended up with their figure of 25,000 houses (reduced from 36,000) being needed to 2026 which comes down to 19,000 after houses already built during period in question.

Does this number really reflect housing demand going forward? Well the answer is no, not really.

The fact is after the 2007/2008 global credit crunch crisis housing starts in this country fell to their  lowest numbers since the 1930s. The recovery from this is predicted to be slow and protracted, but nobody knows when it will recover to pre-crisis levels. The numbers the councils are working to are almost certainly too high.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 04, 2012, 08:49:43 PM
Will "presumption in favour of sustainable development" kick-start the economy?

It is a fallacy to think that building more houses is a solution to our present economic difficulties. When you build houses yes you create work. But that work will not be sustainable if you can't sell those houses so that you need to build more houses and so on.

In fact building houses that nobody wants to buy can cause severe problems for the economy as a whole as oversupply can be just as damaging as undersupply. The housing markets collapsed in both Spain and Ireland due to this very problem of building too many houses. Houses prices collapsed, people were forced into negative equity jamming up the house market.

Why we are being forced to build houses in the north and the west of Swindon when we can't shift houses in the south of Swindon?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 05, 2012, 09:02:36 AM
After a busy day topped and tailed by meetings and a drive coast to coast in between I have just caught up with TS and this thread. Still surprised that in this day and age you cannot get a mobile phone service everywhere!

Back on topic this is the agenda for planning http://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=281&MId=5771&Ver=4&J=3 (http://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=281&MId=5771&Ver=4&J=3) it is worth a read ploughing on through it in bite sized chucks. A mammoth report there must be lots of questions people have. When I have finished scrutinising it I shall comment in more detail.

By any stretch of the imagination it is massive, but if you have a super fast broadband 100 megy thingy it takes no time at all. I don't know if people know this, but the phone mast is already in place on Tadpole Farm is that a first?
Title: Please Note: The Following New Guideline To Speak At Planning.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 05, 2012, 10:14:30 AM
If you want to speak at the meeting please note the following new guidelines:

Quote

WELCOME TO THE PLANNING COMMITTEE
OF SWINDON BOROUGH COUNCIL

NEW GUIDELINES - PLEASE READ

IF YOU HAVE COME TO SPEAK ABOUT AN APPLICATION THAT INTERESTS YOU PLEASE
READ THE FOLLOWING GUIDELINES. THEY EXPLAIN HOW THE COMMITTEE DEALS WITH
EACH ITEM. THESE GUIDELINES ONLY APPLY TO APPLICATIONS LISTED ON THE MAIN
SCHEDULE IN THE AGENDA

1. THE COMMITTEE CHAIR CALLS THE ITEM
2. PLANNING OFFICER PRESENTS THE APPLICATION

3. WARD COUNCILLORS MAY SPEAK

4. APPLICANTS AND/OR AGENT (5 MINUTES MAXIMUM IN TOTAL) WHO HAVE
NOTIFIED THEIR INTENTION TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM TO THE COMMITTEE CLERK
BY 12 NOON THE DAY BEFORE THE MEETING.

5. PUBLIC SPEAKERS (INCLUDING PARISH COUNCIL )- WHO HAVE NOTIFIED THEIR
INTENTION TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM TO THE COMMITTEE CLERK BY 12 NOON THE
DAY BEFORE THE MEETING.

(MAXIMUM 5 MINUTES EACH UP TO 2 SPEAKERS, IF MORE THAN 2 THEN MAXIMUM
10 MINUTES TOTAL SPEAKING TIME FOR ALL SPEAKERS)

6. COUNCILLORS WHO HAVE DECLARED PERSONAL OR PREJUDICIAL INTERESTS
MAY SPEAK

7. MEMBER ONLY DISCUSSION, INCLUDING ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS TO OFFICERS
OR ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS SPOKEN

8. A PLANNING OFFICER WILL CLOSE THE ITEM BY COMMENTING ON ISSUES RAISED
BY MEMBERS
9. VOTE
10. CHAIR BRIEFLY EXPLAINS DECISION IF NECESSARY
11. NEXT BUSINESS

THE 10 MINUTE MAXIMUM PUBLIC SPEAKING PERIOD WILL BE YOUR ONLY OPPORTUNITY
TO SPEAK, UNLESS MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE WISH TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS UNDER
GUIDELINE 7.

SPEAKERS WHO MERELY REPEAT POINTS ALREADY MADE BY OTHERS MAY BE ASKED TO
STAND DOWN.

IF THERE IS MORE THAN ONE PERSON WISHING TO ADDRESS THE COMMITTEE EITHER AS
AN OBJECTOR OR SUPPORTER, THEY ARE EXPECTED TO NOMINATE A REPRESENTATIVE
FROM THE SPEAKERS LISTED TO REPRESENT THEIR COLLECTIVE VIEWS.

THE CHAIR AND THE COMMITTEE HAVE THE DISCRETION TO DEPART FROM THESE
GUIDELINES, BUT WILL IN MOST CASES EXPECT ALL PARTIES TO ABIDE BY THEM.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: I Could Do That on June 05, 2012, 10:34:42 AM
Seems like they're all in a bit of a rush.

Re the phone signal-

Porthcurno.
Birthplace of international telecommunication........
No signal
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 05, 2012, 12:53:32 PM
Quote
5. PUBLIC SPEAKERS (INCLUDING PARISH COUNCIL )- WHO HAVE NOTIFIED THEIR
INTENTION TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM TO THE COMMITTEE CLERK BY 12 NOON THE
DAY BEFORE THE MEETING.

(MAXIMUM 5 MINUTES EACH UP TO 2 SPEAKERS, IF MORE THAN 2 THEN MAXIMUM
10 MINUTES TOTAL SPEAKING TIME FOR ALL SPEAKERS)

There's democracy in action - the public and Parish Councils get a total of just 10 minutes between them to make their views known!

This is a major proposed development of 1,695 houses, not someone trying to add a porch to their house - it deserves proper open, transparent debate and not a ten minute time limit!  The planning committee report runs to well over 100 pages and ten minutes will not allow even a fraction of that to be challenged.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: jennyb on June 05, 2012, 01:34:29 PM
Quote
5. PUBLIC SPEAKERS (INCLUDING PARISH COUNCIL )- WHO HAVE NOTIFIED THEIR
INTENTION TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM TO THE COMMITTEE CLERK BY 12 NOON THE
DAY BEFORE THE MEETING.

(MAXIMUM 5 MINUTES EACH UP TO 2 SPEAKERS, IF MORE THAN 2 THEN MAXIMUM
10 MINUTES TOTAL SPEAKING TIME FOR ALL SPEAKERS)

There's democracy in action - the public and Parish Councils get a total of just 10 minutes between them to make their views known!

This is a major proposed development of 1,695 houses, not someone trying to add a porch to their house - it deserves proper open, transparent debate and not a ten minute time limit!  The planning committee report runs to well over 100 pages and ten minutes will not allow even a fraction of that to be challenged.

Do not be fooled or bullied by this.

Anyone who wishes to speak either for or against a planning application has the democratic right to do so. It is up to the Chairman to manage the meeting agenda and timing and he has no authority to determine that one member of the public has any more or less right to speak than any other.

Look at the Honda Wind Turbines in Oct 2011... over 30 people spoke , on the Croft in Nov 2011 over 20 people spoke.

At the Nov 2011 Croft planning meeting the Chair Cllr Heenan actually suggested that the public take 5 mins to go out and determine who should speak. The public advised him to not waste his or our time and get on with it.  We each had 2 mins to speak.

All you have to do is to write to the Committee Clerk itucker@swindon.gov.uk to register your intent to speak. You do not have to provide your words...but I would advise that you contact him the day before.

The planning committee minutes are pretty limited therefore I would strongly advise that you make your own arrangements.

Interestingly at a recent Council meeting in Wroughton, Cllr Ford stated that there was no issue if anyone wished to record the meeting. A bit of a precedent here?

Kareen 
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Richard Symonds on June 05, 2012, 01:41:45 PM
Taylor Wimpey have got a nice big surprise lined up for Cllr Martin! If he's worried about 700 houses at Ridgeway then I have two words for him...Pry Farm. Watch this space.
 :banana:

Are you sure he is even interested Candidate?

He wasn't interested in the state of his ward when he had responsibility as Lead Member for Street Smart!!
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: jennyb on June 05, 2012, 01:46:37 PM
And ...

'Ward Councillors may speak'.

Using Mr Taylor's logic this application will include the need for school provision and for mitigations to roads which are services there to support people from many wards.

Therefore you are not restricted to your 3 ward councillors in terms of representation.

For reference, at the Croft Planning Committee Cllr Bawden was allowed to speak for over 7mins unchecked by the Chair.



Kareen
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Richard Symonds on June 05, 2012, 01:56:10 PM
For reference, at the Croft Planning Committee Cllr Bawden was allowed to speak for over 7mins unchecked by the Chair.
Kareen

Yes that may be true kareen, but now you have Colin Lovell in the Chair and he is not there without reason.  You and I both witnessed him in action when Steve Rozier was speaking on the Locarno proposals!  I thought his intervention was both rude and unecessary.

People are going to have be very determined, as you have been, to record their disaproval of what is being done in their name and there may well be some blood on the carpet.

Unfortunately, we got the administration we deserve through 'not interested' ruling ok.  Otherwise this lot would be history and we could have avoided all this unecessary and unpleasant nonsense!
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: jennyb on June 05, 2012, 02:35:46 PM
For reference, at the Croft Planning Committee Cllr Bawden was allowed to speak for over 7mins unchecked by the Chair.
Kareen

Yes that may be true kareen, but now you have Colin Lovell in the Chair and he is not there without reason.  You and I both witnessed him in action when Steve Rozier was speaking on the Locarno proposals!  I thought his intervention was both rude and unecessary.

People are going to have be very determined, as you have been, to record their disaproval of what is being done in their name and there may well be some blood on the carpet.

Unfortunately, we got the administration we deserve through 'not interested' ruling ok.  Otherwise this lot would be history and we could have avoided all this unecessary and unpleasant nonsense!

Steve Rosier is not a councillor.

Being rude to the public is fairly common behaviour. It is there to discourage and dishearten. It is a playground tactic and reflects badly on the perpetrator but it is a tactic which is not very effective.

Swindon is where it is and it is up to the public to show all elected members and officers that we now have a fairly good grasp of how the rules work in spirit and in practice.

Kareen

 
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 05, 2012, 03:11:00 PM
This is Great Britain not Soviet Russia... The peoples voice must be heard.

Having now read the Planning Officer's report in detail I can say that there are some terribly biased and frankly untrue assertions in that report.
I came to the conclusion that the Planning Officer is either incompetent or completely content to give up any sense of objective impartiality. I checked varios comments against original source documents and the report is full of spin and special pleading!
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: jennyb on June 05, 2012, 03:35:23 PM
This is Great Britain not Soviet Russia... The peoples voice must be heard.

Having now read the Planning Officer's report in detail I can say that there are some terribly biased and frankly untrue assertions in that report.
I came to the conclusion that the Planning Officer is either incompetent or completely content to give up any sense of objective impartiality. I checked varios comments against original source documents and the report is full of spin and special pleading!

This administration and the officer class who support them have operated as a dictatorship and appear to intend to carry on in this way.

They don't appear to realise that the genie is out of the bottle.. we know what they are up to..

Officers appear to believe that their advice is unassailable.  From what I have seen of a lot of it, it would not last a week in the real world.

As an example.. Officers said the Croft School was desperately needed... they are now being asked to prove it and are stretching the FOI act to the point at which it might just be broken in a ridiculous attempt to avoid coming clean.

If elected members are willing to take Officers at their word and not challenge their recommendations then, in my opinion,  they are being led up the garden path.

Time for elected members to do the job they are elected and paid to do..
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 05, 2012, 07:20:06 PM
Well what do you expect?

Given all of the strong public feeling about Tadpole Farm, how many of our elected representatives actually made representations about the plans?  According to the planning committee report (link in earlier post of this thread) a total of just one....good on you Steve W!

Obviously the Councillors in the Northern wards (Priory Vale, St Andrews etc) did not feel there were any issues with the plans for Tadpole Farm and that all of their residents were happy...or maybe they just don't care what the electorate think?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: jennyb on June 05, 2012, 08:19:40 PM
Well what do you expect?

Given all of the strong public feeling about Tadpole Farm, how many of our elected representatives actually made representations about the plans?  According to the planning committee report (link in earlier post of this thread) a total of just one....good on you Steve W!

Obviously the Councillors in the Northern wards (Priory Vale, St Andrews etc) did not feel there were any issues with the plans for Tadpole Farm and that all of their residents were happy...or maybe they just don't care what the electorate think?

Have been reading the document..what a beast and what an attitude being set out by Officers. Localism is a meglomaniac's dream.... is it not..

In point 113 it states that the primary school will be built in phase 2 when 950 homes have been completed.

This equates to 219 primary children and 177 secondary children.

Where are they supposed to go to school in the interim?

Maybe the North Swindon Councillors who approved the movement of £6,374m DFE primary school funding from North and Central to Old Town would care to explain?

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Smiler on June 05, 2012, 09:14:01 PM
Did someone say meglomaniacs?  Isn't that encouraging self-important people to get a trumped up opinion of themselves?

I don't know who wrote the report or which one of the back room characters felt the need to get involved but you really have to feel a little sorry for this officer.  Talk about trying to hide the bad news.  Have you ever tried to hide your wedding tackle behind a very small figleaf?  It's all hanging out the sides! :spin:
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 06, 2012, 10:07:44 AM
MrG

I will continue to make representations   campaign for a Purton Iffley Road link and mitigate the traffic on Mead Way.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 06, 2012, 10:35:50 AM
"Have been reading the document..what a beast and what an attitude being set out by Officers. Localism is a meglomaniac's dream.... is it not..

In point 113 it states that the primary school will be built in phase 2 when 950 homes have been completed.

This equates to 219 primary children and 177 secondary children.

Where are they supposed to go to school in the interim? "


Kareen, spot on. Before one brick is put on the ground there are already 40 primary school age children in Oakhurst who could not get into Oakhurst Primary School this year and the northern sector is presently 8 forms of entry short of secondary places so there is an acute issue already. This development will compound the issue as these kids will have to go to schools outside of the locality which means more car trips for the schoo runs in the morning and evening.

The new NPPF says that sustainable development must be quality built environments "providing local services that meet the communitys needs"! :'(





Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: jennyb on June 06, 2012, 02:14:44 PM
Children's services refuse to release the detail of the Sep 2012 School admissions which will demonstrate in graphic detail the primary situation across Swindon.

It will prove whether Old Town is overcapacity.

It will prove whether North Swindon is undercapacity.

It will probably show whether there will be a new school in the Town Centre in 2014.

Officers must be able to explain why they state 2 x 420 pupil schools can be built in Old Town in 2 years and sit underutilised for years  but this cannot or does not need to happen in Tadpole Farm.

Could it be that the developers are calling the shots?

Or maybe Officers are nervous that the quality of their planning will be apparent to all?

This planning application should be deferred until Officers do the work they are paid to do.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 06, 2012, 04:26:52 PM
"Could it be that the developers are calling the shots? "

The correspondence I have seen between SKTransport (Crest's consultant on transport for Tadpole Farm) and Swindon Borough Council's Planning Dept leads me to believe that the relationship is closer than it should be.

Basically SK (Crest) said to Swindon Council if you don't take out the Purton-Iffley road link then we cannot build Tadpole Farm. To which the Council obliged.

My fear with this application is the same will happen with the Northern Link road that is in the current application. All three access/egress points into the development, including the Northern LInk road, are down as "unreserved" matters.

This means they are not guaranteed.

If Crest sell on the land after building Phase 1 - as many believe - there will be new developers negotiating with the Council What's to stop them sending a similar letter to the Council as they did with Purton-Iffley road expansion saying we won't build the remaining phases if the new Northern Link road is required?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on June 06, 2012, 06:31:21 PM


My fear with this application is the same will happen with the Northern Link road that is in the current application. All three access/egress points into the development, including the Northern LInk road, are down as "unreserved" matters.

This means they are not guaranteed.


The planning application is in outline. Reserved matters relate to the detail of design - further planning applications need to be submitted for this should outline planning permission be granted.  If outline planning permission is granted, I suspect that the road layout will have full planning permission - that is why they are not "reserved matters".
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 07, 2012, 12:06:12 AM
The more I read the Planning Officers report the more it reads like the developer wrote it!

This is one of many examples of spin I picked up which did not stack up with the original source document referred to by the Planning Officer.

Policy DP10B in Wilts & Structure Plan 2016 calls for 1000 dwellings to be built at the western edge of Swindon. The Planning Officer states that cells G&H were the recommended sites for these - Purton & Lydiards (G) and River Ray (H) from the Swindon Principal Urban Area Study - and on that basis Tadpole Farm is the preferred site for the west of Swindon development. When I looked at the PUA it actually says H should not be taken forward because of impact on Blunsdon and that actually the preferred site was a site straddling cells G & H. Not quite the same thing.

Tadpole Farm is H.

Furthermore the PUA study assumes that the Purton-Iffley Road link happens - which it has not - so much of the comparative analyses of pros and cons between the various sites for urban extension is not valid anyway! :WTF:

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 07, 2012, 12:26:49 AM
Secretary of State's decision on Commonhead Appeal - March 2012.

"8. The Core Strategy and Development Management Policies 2026 Development
Plan document (DPD) is a material consideration. However this is some way from
adoption so it has been afforded limited weight."


Please contrast the above from SOS letter on Commonhead Appeal regarding weight that should be attached to Swindon Draft Core Strategy in planning decisions to what SBC Planning Officer says in Tadpole Farm report on same subject quoting Commonhead Appeal decision as evidence that Draft Core Strategy is at such an advanced stage that it is almost equivalent to an adopted development plan. Who is right the SBC Planning Officer or the Secretary of State?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on June 07, 2012, 07:29:56 AM
Secretary of State's decision on Commonhead Appeal - March 2012.

"8. The Core Strategy and Development Management Policies 2026 Development
Plan document (DPD) is a material consideration. However this is some way from
adoption so it has been afforded limited weight."


Please contrast the above from SOS letter on Commonhead Appeal regarding weight that should be attached to Swindon Draft Core Strategy in planning decisions to what SBC Planning Officer says in Tadpole Farm report on same subject quoting Commonhead Appeal decision as evidence that Draft Core Strategy is at such an advanced stage that it is almost equivalent to an adopted development plan. Who is right the SBC Planning Officer or the Secretary of State?

As it happens, the SOS letter might have said that the draft Swindon Core Strategy should be given little weight in the decision making process, the fact is that "Commonhead" was identified in it way back in SBC's Preferred Options document in 2008 (as was Tadpole Farm) and this meant that we didn't stand a chance at appeal.

At the Lydiard appeal, that was turned down by the SOS, SBC provided evidence that the housing element wasn't needed because "Commonhead" and Tadpole Farm would meet the housing requirement need!!  We were stitched up again...

The Swindon Principal Urban Area Study is a piece of sh*t. It was never subject to public consultation and was completely skewed in favour of the outcome that SBC wanted. I won't take over this thread listing all the faults with the "Commonhead" findings.

   
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: jennyb on June 07, 2012, 07:51:32 AM
I can't find the specific details at the moment... and can't remember the link on TS...and don't have all the technical wording.. but here goes..   

In 2003? the Wichelstowe plan included the Southern Relief road which would have joined Croft Road via Wichelstowe to the M4) .

Part of this has been built and was opened to great fanfare some months ago.I believe that it cost a fortune.

It was I believe planned for completion during the Middle and West Wichel Phases.

On May 24th 2012 in a public meeting, SBC showed 'proposals' that this road would no longer be a 'relief' road because it would be going through the proposed district centre in Middle Wichel.. 'the shops'.

SBC could offer no rational explanation for this change... but actually said... we didn't need to go through this hassle... the existing planning conditions allow us to vary the design.

In my experience ,even when the public pay for expert advice to scrutinise Officers' advice, Officers advise Elected members to ignore it..

Who is accountable for the quality of infrastructure across Swindon and can they be relied upon?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Richard Beale on June 07, 2012, 10:50:40 PM
oh aren't they kind... Crest offer us a park if we let them build at Tadpole Farm

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9748403.Plan_for_new_nature_park/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9748403.Plan_for_new_nature_park/)

but wait a second, isn't Moulden Hill country park just round the corner....

Its all houses and parks in North Swindon and I just love this quote...

Quote
In a letter to members of Wiltshire Wildlife Trust, director Dr Gary Mantle, said: “Having an area of open space so close to where people live will be a good opportunity for residents to simply step outside and be close to nature.


But residents there can do that NOW :bash: :bash: :bash:, Mr Mantle is obviously trying to get WW Trust 'on side'.


And this Gem is just too rich to ignore

Quote
The developer has applied to Swindon Council to build 1,695 homes on the site at Blunsdon St Andrew, as well as other facilities, including a community centre, pub and primary school.


Perhaps that's the same promises that were given in Redhouse then. where years after leaving site the developers have single handedly FAILED to deliver... a pub and a comunity centre. Perhaps Justin Tomlinson MP should have a word with them BEFORE they start building, I know he's very keen on holding developers to their promises.


Quote
During the first round of public consultation, the council received 470 letters of objection or concern, and nine in support.


Will the 470 be heard?
 
Quote
Swindon Council’s planning committee will be asked on Tuesday, June 12 to authorise the planning department to grant outline permission.


 We'll know how effective he and the councillors for the affected wards are on Tuesday then.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 08, 2012, 01:21:27 AM
@Jean

The reason Commonhead appeal was lost was because development at Commonhead was in the Wiltshire + Swindon Structure Plan 2016 and local. Pplan 2011 - both adopted development plans for Swindon. The commonhead appeal was always going to lose because of that fact. Tadpole Farm is not in any adopted plan for Swindon. It only exists in draft core strategy which is not adopted and the SOS has already confirmed only limited weight should be attached to draft core strategy.

In legal planning terms the justifications for Commonhead and Tadpole Farm are quite different.

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 08, 2012, 01:34:44 AM
@Richard Beale

The park Crest is offering is actually the land in the flood plain they can't build on. It was going to be grass and the river ray anyway. All Crest is doing is buying off the some of the consultees on their application by chucking a few grand and calling the grass and river ray a park.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on June 08, 2012, 07:28:55 AM
@Jean

The reason Commonhead appeal was lost was because development at Commonhead was in the Wiltshire + Swindon Structure Plan 2016 and local. Pplan 2011 - both adopted development plans for Swindon. The commonhead appeal was always going to lose because of that fact. Tadpole Farm is not in any adopted plan for Swindon. It only exists in draft core strategy which is not adopted and the SOS has already confirmed only limited weight should be attached to draft core strategy.

In legal planning terms the justifications for Commonhead and Tadpole Farm are quite different.

Agreed - that didn't help! However the Structure and Local Plan requirement was for a university (plus the rest) at Commonhead. The Swindon Principal Urban Area Study was undertaken after the Local Plan and Structure Pan were adopted. It was this document that has been used as justification to promote Commonhead and Tadpole Farm as development areas in the emerging Swindon Core Strategy.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Muggins on June 08, 2012, 09:30:58 AM
@Richard Beale

The park Crest is offering is actually the land in the flood plain they can't build on. It was going to be grass and the river ray anyway. All Crest is doing is buying off the some of the consultees on their application by chucking a few grand and calling the grass and river ray a park.

Much the same as all the new developments then, Northern Development was sold on how much green space it had, but that green space is under pylons or on steep banks, it is indeed pleasant enough but the amount of green space that kids can actually play on is not a lot.   

I wonder if the green space at Witchelstowe is likewise?

I've already said my piece about the WWT and my disappointment at how they are carrying on. They depend on Members though (even if they no longer depend on their money) and there are AGM's!
I would prefer to see a smaller, nearer the ground WWT, that's sticks to it's principal of protecting wildlife, than the business model we have at present. Wonder if it's members realise and uinderstand the actions?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on June 08, 2012, 09:36:35 AM
@Jean

The reason Commonhead appeal was lost was because development at Commonhead was in the Wiltshire + Swindon Structure Plan 2016 and local. Pplan 2011 - both adopted development plans for Swindon. The commonhead appeal was always going to lose because of that fact. Tadpole Farm is not in any adopted plan for Swindon. It only exists in draft core strategy which is not adopted and the SOS has already confirmed only limited weight should be attached to draft core strategy.

In legal planning terms the justifications for Commonhead and Tadpole Farm are quite different.

Agreed - that didn't help! However the Structure and Local Plan requirement was for a university (plus the rest) at Commonhead. The Swindon Principal Urban Area Study was undertaken after the Local Plan and Structure Pan were adopted. It was this document that has been used as justification to promote Commonhead and Tadpole Farm as development areas in the emerging Swindon Core Strategy.

Sorry - I'm mixing up the Swindon Small Scale Extensions Study with the earlier Swindon Principal Urban Extension Study. Both were equally biased in their conclusions.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on June 08, 2012, 10:22:40 AM
@Richard Beale

The park Crest is offering is actually the land in the flood plain they can't build on. It was going to be grass and the river ray anyway. All Crest is doing is buying off the some of the consultees on their application by chucking a few grand and calling the grass and river ray a park.

Much the same as all the new developments then, Northern Development was sold on how much green space it had, but that green space is under pylons or on steep banks, it is indeed pleasant enough but the amount of green space that kids can actually play on is not a lot.   

I wonder if the green space at Witchelstowe is likewise?



The same is definitely true at Coate. The green- spaces protected in the planning application contain significant archaeological finds (and Scheduled Ancient Monuments) ranging from Neolithic to Roman to Medieval whilst Dayhouse Copse (an ancient oak local nature reserve) is "protected" by a 10m strip of green. 
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Muggins on June 08, 2012, 12:04:57 PM
10 metre aye, that will be just right for a 3m wide cycle path tarmac and lit. By the time they cut the grass both sides (as they do) that will be no buffer for the Copse at all. Can show you examples of like-wise done to an Ancient woodland and Ancient Edge and Parish Boundary Hedgerow, and that was planned back in the good old days.

We learned quickly to beware the buffer and what it meant.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 08, 2012, 12:54:56 PM

@Jean
"Sorry - I'm mixing up the Swindon Small Scale Extensions Study with the earlier Swindon Principal Urban Extension Study. Both were equally biased in their conclusions."

Neither of the above documents are adopted development plans. They can inform the development of local plans but that's it.

The fact - unpalatable to SBC as it is - is that Tadpole Farm is not referenced in any current adopted local development plan for Swindon - and under planning law that is what counts. Under the new NPPF if existing local development plans are "silent" on a particular application (e.g. Tadpole Farm) then it comes down to whether the benefits outweight the negatives in terms of impact. This is the "infrastructure" argument.

In the Wilts & Swindon Structure Plan 2016 it refers to Policy DP10B the need to have 1000 dwellings to the west of swindon and it references cells G&H from Swindon Principal Urban Area Study. As mentioned before, Cell H (the River Ray - effectively Tadpole Farm) is not recommended to be taken forward because of impact on Blunsdon. The recommendation of the PUA study was a site straddling cells G & H. This could be Ridgeway or Pry Farm. Reason why SBC does not want those is that they are in Wilts jurisdiction not SBC - thats why SBC wants Tadpole Farm. All about money in the end!
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: swindonlinkman on June 08, 2012, 01:38:17 PM
Oakhurst Residents’ Association chair Paul Exell says report to Swindon Council's planning committee on 12 June covers up too much and decision should be delayed until Ridgeway Farm judgement comes through http://www.swindonlink.com/news/tadpole-farm-plans-just-not-ready-for-consideration (http://www.swindonlink.com/news/tadpole-farm-plans-just-not-ready-for-consideration)
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: swindonlinkman on June 08, 2012, 01:40:33 PM
@RichardBeale - see also:
Crest Strategic Planning to give Tadpole Farm land to Wiltshire Wildlife Trust if Swindon Council agree planning application on 12 June
http://www.swindonlink.com/news/north-swindon-could-have-100-acre-nature-park-in-return-for-1700-houses (http://www.swindonlink.com/news/north-swindon-could-have-100-acre-nature-park-in-return-for-1700-houses)

Wiltshire Wildlife Trust accused of accepting land and money at the expense of long term implications for North Swindon residents
http://www.swindonlink.com/news/wilts-wildlife-trust-condemned-for-crest-deal (http://www.swindonlink.com/news/wilts-wildlife-trust-condemned-for-crest-deal)
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 08, 2012, 02:37:09 PM
@Jean
"Sorry - I'm mixing up the Swindon Small Scale Extensions Study (SSSES) with the earlier Swindon Principal Urban Extension (PUA) Study. Both were equally biased in their conclusions."

To complete the story. The PUA study was carried out to inform the Local Plan 2011 and Wilts & Swindon Structure Plan 2016 which are adopted development plans for Swindon; the SSSES was carried out to inform the Regional Spatial Stragey (RSS) which was looking at finding locations for much higher housing numbers than we are looking for now (36,000 instead of 19,000 we are looking for now). The RSS has subsequently been scrapped by The Localism Bill 2011.

Neither the RSS which is scrapped or the draft core strategy for Swindon carry much weight under the new NPPF.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on June 08, 2012, 04:12:18 PM

Neither the RSS which is scrapped or the draft core strategy for Swindon carry much weight under the new NPPF.

I understood that the final alterations to the Revised Proposed Submission Draft of the Swindon Core Strategy  is due out anytime now (we were told June) and will be submitted to the Sec of State and for public comment, before going to a planning inquiry.   

The Structure Plan and the Local Plan only ran to 2011. The argument will run along the lines that the Core Strategy might now carry more weight.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 08, 2012, 04:45:02 PM
@Jean
"I understood that the final alterations to the Revised Proposed Submission Draft of the Swindon Core Strategy  is due out anytime now (we were told June) and will be submitted to the Sec of State and for public comment, before going to a planning inquiry.   

The Structure Plan and the Local Plan only ran to 2011. The argument will run along the lines that the Core Strategy might now carry more weight."

Apparently not if you read the Secretary of State's letter on Commonhead Appeal published 27th March 2012 - he clearly stated Draft Core Strategy was some way off being adopted and was thereby afforded limited weight in planning decision-making. Nothing has changed between March and now with regard to Draft Core Strategy. My understanding is that due to the unprecedented number of comments on its soundness it will have to go out for public comment again. The QC for Taylor Wimpey at Ridgeway Appeal used the same argument stating Draft Core Strategy was unsound.

The Structure Plan was to 2016. The Local Plan to 2011.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: swindonlinkman on June 08, 2012, 05:10:13 PM
Swindon's Labour Group Leader Jim Grant says planning application for 1,700 houses at Tadpole Farm should be deferred http://www.swindonlink.com/news/call-for-tadpole-farm-decision-to-be-deferred (http://www.swindonlink.com/news/call-for-tadpole-farm-decision-to-be-deferred)
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 08, 2012, 05:16:03 PM
"To quote Old Town campaigner Kareen Boyd: "In 2009 the Department for Education awarded £6,374m to Swindon Borough Council on the basis of need for school places in North Swindon (295), Central Swindon (173) and Old Town (13). The Government proviso was that this money could be reclaimed if this award was not in permanent accomodation by Feb 2012.

"In December 2009 Swindon allocated all of the £6,374m to the school to be built in Old Town/Croft - the second 420 pupil primary school in Old Town in two years."

Am I missing something here? Why the hell are we building schools in Old Town when North Swindon is massively undersupplied? 295 is a much greater number than 13! :WTF:

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 08, 2012, 05:35:13 PM
First the Section 106 money and then the Schools money - Why is North Swindon getting screwed on a regular basis? :surrender:
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Smiler on June 08, 2012, 05:50:19 PM
Not wanting to spoil the blue sky with some very dark clouds BUT there's a touch of a psychedelic Boudicca met-her-Waterloo about yesterday evening.  The blue ship, Boudicca sailed into the locality of the north with a female figurehead ravaged by storms on its prow.  It was ranting and raving and ready to fight the developers after years of peace with the Great-Crested newt expanders from North of the Young Frog Shipping Lane.

All of a sudden two enemy ships appeared named the "Ruddy Runard" and the "London Hairstyle" (previously registered as the "The Big Barnet") fighting the Boudicca and her crew.  We are doomed they cried.  These blue suppporters have joined forces with the Great Crested newts and are repelling us.  They will bring devastation on the seas of the North.  We have had two years to prepare for this war but we were silly to leave it so late to wake ourselves up and arm ourselves against their newt-like tongues!  I know, says the Boudicca, perhaps the crew of this ship can perform a miracle and convince the Northern sea dwellers that we have always been on their side with 4,000 messages-in-bottles through their portholes!

The moral of this sea story is to make sure you make your portholes water tight against the Boudicca-come-latelys gushing litres of bilge water onto your decks.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 08, 2012, 06:08:50 PM
The question also has to be asked about trip rate figures...

For Ridgeway Farm (700 houses) the developer's estimated trip rate from the site down Mead Way is many times higher than the figures claimed by Crest for Tadpole Farm (1700 houses)....

So as a developer is hardly likely to overestimate this figure, this implies that Crest may be being a touch optimistic on their impact on Mead Way...
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 08, 2012, 06:37:02 PM
Could also add that Crest figures are low as they have internalised their trips....  This means they are assuming that Tadpole Farm residents will use the on-site school, shops, leisure facilities and so will not need to use their cars to leave the estate....

But hang on, there is no primary school in the first phase, no secondary school at all and the rest of the community facilities may never be there given Crest's record at Redhouse!

So all of those 'internal' trips will really be cars leaving the site but they have not been counted in the external trip rates....
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Muggins on June 08, 2012, 06:52:24 PM
Just to remind people of that conversation back in the planningstages of Northern Development, when we were pouring over the Master Plan.  A query was raised as to why the Secondary School was placed right out the rim of ND.  Some wit came back with 'It's pretty obvious that at some point the school will be in the middle of development' 

That's Isambard School as is now.  That planning was happening at the same time that they were doing urban fringe wildlife studies, the urban fringe they were studying was of course, Penhill and Haydon Wick.

And the Newts are no joke!  They are a rare species in the world and Swindon has the biggest concentration of them anywhere. Or we did have!  :'(
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Richard Beale on June 08, 2012, 08:53:08 PM
And the Newts are no joke!  They are a rare species in the world and Swindon has the biggest concentration of them anywhere. Or we did have!  :'(

Better be, quite a lot of s106 money spent on their habitat, one of the most fullfilling things I was involved was making sur ethey were protected, North Swindon doesn't know how lucky they are to have such a well protected endangered species. The great crested newt should be THE emblem of Priory Vale / Abbey meads
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Muggins on June 09, 2012, 08:01:48 AM
"The great crested newt should be THE emblem of Priory Vale / Abbey meads2

Or Swindon even!

Although I do wonder if they are being moved out undercover to ponds at Stanton Park............????
Has WWT abandonded them also?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on June 09, 2012, 08:20:08 AM
I don't think that WWT get so excited about Great Crested Newts anymore, albeit that they are still a protected species. There seem to be more of them about than once thought. We've got them in our garden pond

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36164377@N07/3503847746/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36164377@N07/3503847746/#)

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: I Could Do That on June 09, 2012, 08:37:26 AM
Great picture of a humming bird hawk moth on that site.

I see that, after a strange dormant phase, people are now gradually returning to the Adver comments sections.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm_homes/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm_homes/)
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: George Elliot on June 09, 2012, 09:26:24 AM
Though important for Ecology please forget  the Newts they are thriving and please forget the eons of history. Please get real, this is happening locally to you in real time Tadpole is what you see is what you are going to get! Where are the Libdems on this development before  they joined the Tories they were very green! Will Cllr Nicky Sewell on planning speak up for the Libdems in Swindon who live around here?

Come on Libdems and that includes the councillors get off the fence and speak up the Tories need to know that there are Libdems in North Swindon. The politician Libdems  may have joined the Tories and abandoned Libdems principles about environment, which still need to be represented!

What a classic all motherhood and applepie quote from developers Crest Nicholson
Quote
John Terry, managing director of Crest Strategic Projects, said: “The development is designed to meet the expansion needs of Swindon and will reflect the best in attractive sustainable housing. “Tadpole Farm will provide access to high quality schools, shops and community facilities. It will deliver the larger, family housing that Swindon now needs with environmental enhancements along the River Ray. Furthermore it will create much needed construction jobs for the area and a legacy of employment which we believe will in turn support Swindon’s economy.”
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 09, 2012, 10:06:08 AM
The sad thing is that at the Ridgeway Farm appeal SBC said, as part of their evidence, that the SBC Cabinet were recommending approval of the plans for Tadpole Farm and that therefore Ridgeway Farm should not be built on....

So if the Cabinet has recommended approval of the plans, it must be noted that one of the Councillors signing the letter mentioned in the Adver article is on Cabinet - does this mean that at best Cllr Edwards is confused or is he being disingenuous with the people of Priory Vale?

Also, there are members of this same Cabinet that have seats on the Planning Committee that meets on Tuesday next week - can they truly say that they have not already made up their mind having approved Tadpole at Cabinet?  This includes the Cabinet Member for Planning!

Is the deck being stacked?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 09, 2012, 10:40:44 AM
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm)

"The moral of this sea story is to make sure you make your portholes water tight against the Boudicca-come-latelys gushing litres of bilge water onto your decks."

Boudicca and two charioteers seen in vicinity of North on young frog lane. Yet the Northern Sea dwellers were not fooled. For years they had seen Boudicca's alliance with the Crested Newts and her betrayal of the Northern Sea dwellers. They knew they could not trust Boudicca in the defence of their homeland against the Newts and so made their own plans instead.  :fence:
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Muggins on June 09, 2012, 01:36:40 PM
Geroge: "Though important for Ecology please forget  the Newts they are thriving and please forget the eons of history. Please get real, this is happening locally to you in real time Tadpole is what you see is what you are going to get!"

There are good reaons for harping back on the history, if they went to the bother of putting a school on the edge of a large development, so that it could serve as a secondary school for a larger area, it means that there will be more and more dvelopment tagged on to the other side of Tadpole Lane.  i.e. you will fight this one, and but then there will be another and another and another.

The Newts will be important when you give up fighting the development and start fighting for something decent to be left in it. 

Just a reminder that when the Northern Development Action Group was set up, it was fighting 10,000 houses not a few hundred.  My advise would be to build into your fight for the Tadpole Lane Development some sort of fight for the whole of the farmland on the other side. Start now by building up your knowledge of how it works and what it takes or you will be fire-fighting development all along it's length for years and years to come. 

It's not happening to me, it already happened.......
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 09, 2012, 02:21:07 PM
@Mr Grumpy

"The sad thing is that at the Ridgeway Farm appeal SBC said, as part of their evidence, that the SBC Cabinet were recommending approval of the plans for Tadpole Farm and that therefore Ridgeway Farm should not be built on....

So if the Cabinet has recommended approval of the plans, it must be noted that one of the Councillors signing the letter mentioned in the Adver article is on Cabinet - does this mean that at best Cllr Edwards is confused or is he being disingenuous with the people of Priory Vale?

Also, there are members of this same Cabinet that have seats on the Planning Committee that meets on Tuesday next week - can they truly say that they have not already made up their mind having approved Tadpole at Cabinet?  This includes the Cabinet Member for Planning!"

Members of the planning committee that have pre-determined their views should not be allowed to cast a vote.

I can think of a one Cllr Nick Martin that comes into the category. He is on record at Ridgeway Appeal stating his view that Tadpole Farm goes ahead (so that Ridgeway doesn't have to go ahead). Talk about a clear conflict of interest there. He has pre-determined his view clearly.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 09, 2012, 02:53:14 PM
@Mr Grumpy
"The sad thing is that at the Ridgeway Farm appeal SBC said, as part of their evidence, that the SBC Cabinet were recommending approval of the plans for Tadpole Farm and that therefore Ridgeway Farm should not be built on....

Re: Cllr Edwards. That's very interesting....him being on the Cabinet that is recommending Tadpole farm be built etc. That's not what he was saying on the doorstep in Priory Vale prior to the May 3rd elections. Conservative pre-election flyers for Priory Vale attached. Isn't that Cllr Edwards in the photo titled "Fighting inappropriate development"?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Muggins on June 09, 2012, 03:21:09 PM
"Isn't that Cllr Edwards in the photo titled "Fighting inappropriate development"?2

It's the 'inappropriate' that is the key word here, when whatever goes through, they will merely say that it was 'appropriate'.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 09, 2012, 04:26:41 PM
[url]http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm[/url] ([url]http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm[/url])

"The moral of this sea story is to make sure you make your portholes water tight against the Boudicca-come-latelys gushing litres of bilge water onto your decks."

Boudicca and two charioteers seen in vicinity of North on young frog lane. Yet the Northern Sea dwellers were not fooled. For years they had seen Boudicca's alliance with the Crested Newts and her betrayal of the Northern Sea dwellers. They knew they could not trust Boudicca in the defence of their homeland against the Newts and so made their own plans instead.  :fence:



C7

Not sure I understand your Dylan Thomas type prose, but I did visit the pub in North Swindon at lunch time today and the car park. It was an ideal spot for a bit of politico spotting.  :wink:
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: George Elliot on June 09, 2012, 05:05:01 PM
Someone putting leaflets out, but I was disappointed not one Libdem leaflet, don't the Libdems care?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: The Oakhurst Avenger on June 09, 2012, 06:23:25 PM
How the Tories have ignored the evidence base for the future direction of growth for Swindon.

The aims of the Swindon Joint Study 2026, were:

• to establish a long-term, achievable vision to 2026 for the Swindon
Joint Study Area encompassing not only land use planning issues but
also those of health, education, culture and sport.
• to consider how future development in the Swindon Joint Study Area to
2026 can help to achieve the aims and objectives identified for the
area.
• to produce a succinct report/recommendations readily able to be
included in the Regional Spatial Strategy and also in a form which can
be used effectively in the production of Local Development
Frameworks and other planning documents within the boundary of
Swindon Joint Study Area.

Three strategic locations for growth were tested within the Swindon
Joint Study: east of Swindon, north west of Swindon and south west of
Swindon.

The consultation on the Joint Study attracted a significant number of
responses in relation to locations for future growth. Whilst expressing
concern about growth, the public have shown a general preference in the
consultation for development to the east of Swindon, although other
stakeholders did not come to a consensus on this.

Conclusions of the Joint Study were as follows:

The results of the Swindon Joint Study indicate that the area to the east of
Swindon is identified as the generally the most sustainable direction of
growth
for all three growth scenarios. Although the East is constrained by the
A419 / A420, there are more options in this direction to overcome this
challenge than is the case for the challenges facing the North West or South
West. It is also physically closer to several centres of employment than
either of the other sites. It is a large area with no critical landscape features
and few biodiversity constraints.

The results of the Swindon Joint Study indicate that the area to the North
West of Swindon is identified as generally the least sustainable direction for
growth
for all three growth scenarios. The North West is the most remote site
from the key centres of employment and is also remote from major existing
highway infrastructure to which it would require a connection. The area also
has several high quality habitats and is fragmented in landscape terms. In the
North West development would have a major impact on a largely unchanged
historic landscape.

The results of the Swindon Joint Study indicate that the area to the South
West of Swindon in sustainability terms fall between the above two options
.
In landscape terms it is developable in two parts with very few biodiversity
constraints and, in terms of flood risk, has the highest potential for growth.

But look what is happening instead. The graphs attached compare the housing split between the growth directions for Swindon going forward under the old Regional Spatial Strategy (which the Joint Study informed), the Tories Draft Core Strategy (still to be adopted), and also the third scenario which is the Draft Core Strategy plus Ridgeway Farm and Pry Farm (if they go ahead).

Instead of the East being the future direction of growth for Swindon - which was the conclusion of the Joint Study - the direction of growth is actually being steered in the less sustainable directions to the Northwest and South of Swindon. The exact opposite of what the evidence base in the Joint Study said should happen. :wakeup:
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 09, 2012, 07:04:40 PM
The only leaflet I have seen is one being put out by Labour - have not seen hide nor hair of the much publicised Tory one, obviously not delivering my part of North Swindon.

Headline on Labour one is "Residents' fears confirmed - developer free-for-all at Tadpole Farm".
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Bobby Bingo on June 09, 2012, 07:14:14 PM
As the Chair of Planning is our Vera in order when she publicly states she is against the development?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 09, 2012, 07:25:36 PM
Labour leaflet just dropped through my door.

"Resident's fears confirmed - developer free-for-all at Tadpole Farm"

Labour calling for Tadpole Farm planning application to be deferred until some of the infrastructure issues are resolved on the traffic issues, primary school to be built in Phase 1 rather than in Phase 2 (after 2020) - sensible considering woeful current shortage - and improvements to Oakhurst Way which is going to take 45% of traffic fom development but in current application is only going to receive £60k. I like the fact it mentions the Council is spending £600k on a small road on the site of the new Croft School (from the s106 money from the NDA) but Oakhurst Way is only getting £60k for a much larger development. I've mentioned this before but it does seem the NDA is funding the pet-projects (schools, roads) for certain politicians elsewhere in Swindon which is grossly unfair and should be investigated in my view.

I have to say this is a breath of fresh air from Labour. Normally in the North you only get a leaflet at election time from Labour. Hope this is a sign of better engagement from them with the North Swindon community going forward. The Tories have taken North swindon for granted too long and need a kick up the backside.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 09, 2012, 07:35:31 PM
@Bobby Bingo

"As the Chair of Planning is our Vera in order when she publicly states she is against the development?"

According to the agenda I received for next Tuesday Vera is no longer on the planning committee.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 09, 2012, 07:51:43 PM
@Steve Wakefield

"Not sure I understand your Dylan Thomas type prose, but I did visit the pub in North Swindon at lunch time today and the car park. It was an ideal spot for a bit of politico spotting."

My ditty was a follow up to "Smiler". There are only 2 pubs in North Swindon (Tawny Owl and Blunsdon Arms) because Crest failed to deliver the promised one in Redhouse  :( (boom boom). Do you mean the Blunsdon Arms?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 09, 2012, 08:04:55 PM
Candide7

I was with Cllr Moffatt in the car park of the one opposite Orbital.  O0
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Terry Reynolds on June 09, 2012, 08:12:58 PM
Just sent a question to Gavin Jones about this lot and have got a reply back saying he is out of office until 10th April, some wait that eh!!!!!!!!!!! :wink:
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on June 09, 2012, 08:31:27 PM
Just in case you haven't seen it, here's the link to download SBC's 2008 Swindon Small-scale Urban Extension Study that looked at every bit of greenfield land surrounding Swindon:

http://www.swindon.gov.uk/ep/ep-planning/ep-planning-localdev/Documents/final_document_-_report_v2_web_version%5B1%5D.pdf (http://www.swindon.gov.uk/ep/ep-planning/ep-planning-localdev/Documents/final_document_-_report_v2_web_version%5B1%5D.pdf)

This is what it says in summary about Tadpole Farm (Cell G)

Quote
Tadpole Farm emerged as the most sustainable location in the study area to accommodate development and should therefore be the priority site. Tadpole Farm could deliver 1,500 dwellings. There are few environmental constraints at this location and the topography of the ground is flat and low-lying so development here would read as a logical extension to the urban area. The site would also provide good access to new services and facilities at the Northern Development Area and would have minimal impact upon coalescence with any surrounding settlements. Mitigation would still be required to address landscape impacts to the north, transport implications and education shortfall as well as an archaeological survey. There may also be a need to deliver an appropriate level of mixed-use retail development to address the day-to-day local needs of residents.


You will find more in this document

http://www.swindon.gov.uk/ep/ep-planning/ep-planning-localdev/Documents/final_document_-_appendices_v2%5B1%5D.pdf (http://www.swindon.gov.uk/ep/ep-planning/ep-planning-localdev/Documents/final_document_-_appendices_v2%5B1%5D.pdf)

As I said before, the area has been targetted by SBC for 6 years. I'm not saying that it's right but this document played an important role in the Coate appeal inquiry - the planning inspector used it as evidence that Coate was a sustainable place to develop.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: the gorgon on June 09, 2012, 09:04:06 PM
The bit about flat land in Jean's post is very important, it's far cheaper (so in developer speak it is more sustainable) to build houses and infrastructure where land is fairly flat. 

This is why developers want to build at Tadpole Lane and Ridgeway Farm, same reason why they wanted to build at Coate.  Basically they're picking off the easy sites (in between A419 and M4), once they've been built on they'll move elsewhere. Which is why I think they'll want to build between Wroughton and Swindon in the not too distant future.

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: The Oakhurst Avenger on June 09, 2012, 10:28:57 PM
There is a lot of flat land, surplus school places, employment, better road infrastructure in East Swindon. Why hasn't development started there like the Swindon Wilts Joint Study said should happen years ago?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Smiler on June 09, 2012, 10:34:07 PM
Quote
My ditty was a follow up to "Smiler". There are only 2 pubs in North Swindon (Tawny Owl and Blunsdon Arms) because Crest failed to deliver the promised one in Redhouse   (boom boom). Do you mean the Blunsdon Arms?

No message-in-bottles through my porthole today from Boudicca and her crew.  But did I miss the Battle of the Blunsdon Arms?  What happened in the car park?  Was it an Offa's Dyke moment or one like the battle of Londinium?


Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on June 09, 2012, 10:50:51 PM
There is a lot of flat land, surplus school places, employment, better road infrastructure in East Swindon. Why hasn't development started there like the Swindon Wilts Joint Study said should happen years ago?

You don't work for David Wilson Homes, do you? They have been promoting development in East Swindon for donkeys years now. Ask them why the development hasn't started.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: The Oakhurst Avenger on June 09, 2012, 11:19:14 PM
@Jean
"You don't work for David Wilson Homes, do you? They have been promoting development in East Swindon for donkeys years now. Ask them why the development hasn't started."

No Jean just an ordinary citizen by day but the Oakhurst Avenger by night! My mission is to protect the citizens of gotham from the corrupting influences of power in city hall. My latest crusade is to uncover the reasons why this council is promoting development in the northwest and south of Swindon but is doing everything to stop development in the East. The evidence base has always identified the East as the most sustainable direction of growth for Swindon yet no development has occurred there. Don't you find that odd?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: jennyb on June 10, 2012, 04:50:30 AM
I have just read the 9/6/2012 Adver article from Cllr Heaton-Jones and Cllr Tomlnson regarding Tadpole Farm.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm_homes/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm_homes/)

It reeks of hypocrisy.

“Coun Heaton-Jones said: “It’s important people turn up because it’s important that the planning committee understand the strength of feeling in the local community.

The planning committee have in front of them an application from the developers and the report from the planning officer, which is the information on which they will base their decision.

But what they don’t have in front of them at this meeting is anything that indicates the strength of feeling amongst the local community.”


Coun Heaton-Jones said the main concerns were that extra traffic from the site would cause congestion on local roads, and there would not be adequate additional infrastructure and facilities provided.”

Could this be the same Cllr Heaton-Jones who, as our MPs’ assistant, has attended  meetings with Croft residents since early 2011 and heard their concerns over the process, our treatment and the quality of evidence put forward by the LA?

Could this be the same Cllr Heaton-Jones who as a member of the Scrutiny Committee sat and listened to Croft Residents questions and concerns and did nothing? 
 
Cllr Tomlinson , Cllr Heaton-Jones  colleague  on the Scrutiny Committee, also heard the same concerns and questions from Croft Residents and did nothing. 

Could this be the same Cllr Tomlinson who as Vice Chair of the Planning Committee seconded the Croft School application without having asked a single question as she stated that she was satisfied?

The Croft planning committee had everything in front of them, they knew the strength of feeling in the local community and yet they chose to ignore everything other than what the Officers told them to think.  The Officers who stated that the Croft must happen are the same Officers who are currently withholding the evidence of need that residents questioned in the 1st place .They won’t even tell our MP!

The blight that is the Croft can be laid squarely at the door of the November 29th 2011 Planning Committee who had it in their power to demonstrate that Democracy existed in Swindon.  They could have done their duty and held Officers to account.  They failed.

If the Planning Committee had fulfilled their obligations they would at minimum have asked for a deferment until Officers fulfilled their responsibilities. That they did not is a blot on their respective records.

From what I have read the Tadpole Farm application planning report is a shabby and shoddy piece of work.   Perhaps the Planning Committee hearing the Tadpole Farm application may put a bit more effort into scrutinising what the Officers put before them. 

No wonder these Councillors are so concerned about the Tadpole Farm planning application.

Because they know how the system works in Swindon. 

Kareen

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: The Oakhurst Avenger on June 10, 2012, 05:01:39 AM
@Jean
"Just in case you haven't seen it, here's the link to download SBC's 2008 Swindon Small-scale Urban Extension Study that looked at every bit of greenfield land surrounding Swindon:"

Ah but it didn't cover every greenfield site surrounding Swindon. You will find that the area of search starts in North Swindon and then sweeps in an anti-clockwise fashion through west swindon ending in south swindon and commonhead. Notice anything odd...for such an exhaustive search one area is conspicuously missing...   :wink:
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on June 10, 2012, 07:23:05 AM
@Jean
"Just in case you haven't seen it, here's the link to download SBC's 2008 Swindon Small-scale Urban Extension Study that looked at every bit of greenfield land surrounding Swindon:"

Ah but it didn't cover every greenfield site surrounding Swindon. You will find that the area of search starts in North Swindon and then sweeps in an anti-clockwise fashion through west swindon ending in south swindon and commonhead. Notice anything odd...for such an exhaustive search one area is conspicuously missing...   :wink:

The proposed Eastern Development Area is not a small-scale urban extension - it is essentially the basis of creating another town. At the time of the study, the EDA was proposed to accommodate 12,000 new homes. This figure was subsequently reduced in the 2011 draft Core Strategy to 7,500 homes. I have no idea why the site has not come forward yet but I doubt that SBC (for a change) is to blame. 
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 10, 2012, 08:44:04 AM
Quote
I doubt that SBC (for a change) is to blame. 
There are some in Swindon who still do NOT understand who is responsible for SBC's policy.  Could this policy decision have been taken by the councillors?  When did the EDA get scaled back and Tadpole endorsed?  Maybe before the General Election?   When did all the consultations take place for the EDA?  What would you do if you wanted to hold a major office with that kind of opposition?  Who was one of the Covingham councillors at the time?  Who was, and is, a main player in planning?  Who was his mate and had ambition?  Wouldn't you spread the bad news?  Why do you think that people in the north and south feel they are being played?

Perhaps you can answer your own questions now?

It is time for the people of Swindon to stop fighting each other and put the blame where it belongs!
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: George Elliot on June 10, 2012, 08:53:44 AM
Quote
I have no idea why the site has not come forward yet but I doubt that SBC (for a change) is to blame.



I was intrigued by the comment as this has been under discussion in Swindon for years.

If I am not mistaken the  Front Garden Action group and Bloor Homes argued in court that the EDA should go ahead before the SDA in 2001 http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/archive/2001/03/17/Wiltshire+Archive/7385196.Front_Garden_fund_reaches___13_000/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/archive/2001/03/17/Wiltshire+Archive/7385196.Front_Garden_fund_reaches___13_000/)

Fast Forward to 3 years ago http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/4421126.Concern_about_12_000_homes_planned_for_land_east_of_town/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/4421126.Concern_about_12_000_homes_planned_for_land_east_of_town/)
Quote
Ward councillor Dale Heenan, who is also the chairman of Swindon Council’s planning committee, said the EDA would be the biggest development in the south west and would see Swindon dwarf Oxford in size.

He said: “Issues of transport, housing, education and leisure facilities are all being discussed.

“If this debate happens after applications are submitted we could find developers dictating the terms and it will be too late.


But the people of EDA  spoke out http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/4426684.Swindon_development_plan_fiercely_opposed/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/4426684.Swindon_development_plan_fiercely_opposed/)
Quote
But before council planners could even launch the presentation angry residents began shouting about their current housing woes, including the long-suffered issue of flooding.

“It was supposed to be a presentation but it almost turned into a shouting match,” said Pauline Davis from Martinfield, Covingham.

“They couldn’t even explain what the plans meant because people were shouting their piece.”


Rod Bluh Council Leader at the next meeting said (after the chair asked him and Cllr Phil Young to answer yes or No. Note Rid still did not answer No he replied with measured words
Quote
“I don’t want to see any houses built on the EDA”


After this the plan metamorphosed itself to the Eastern Villages Plan of 7500 houses and if you recall Cllr Peter Greenhalgh would not attend the public meeting to discuss it if the Swindon Advertiser attended.  http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/topic,7399.0.html (http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/topic,7399.0.html)

I noted a political leaflet with Justin Tomlinson MP and Cllrs Dale Heenan and Emma Faramazi http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive/2011%2003%2020%20conservative%20Emma%20Faramarzi%20Covingham%20&%20Nythe.pdf (http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/leaflet_archive/2011%2003%2020%20conservative%20Emma%20Faramarzi%20Covingham%20&%20Nythe.pdf)

Now back to
Quote
I have no idea why the site has not come forward yet but I doubt that SBC (for a change) is to blame.


 :popcorn:



Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 10, 2012, 09:10:32 AM
Thanks, George E, for putting some facts into this discussion on the EDA and Tadpole Farm.  Perhaps it is all beginning to make sense why Tadpole Farm is going flat out now...
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Smiler on June 10, 2012, 09:36:47 AM
Thanks, George E, for putting some facts into this discussion on the EDA and Tadpole Farm.  Perhaps it is all beginning to make sense why Tadpole Farm is going flat out now...

Mr Grumpy can I add a quote to the debate from the North Locality meeting on Thursday, 7th June.   Cllr V Tomlinson answering a question about the MP's position on Tadpole Farm.

Quote
The MP who has given his opinion several times is Justin Tomlnson, the North Swindon MP.  He's my son and he has told me his thoughts as well as he's put it in print.  He is against inappropriate development.  Make of that what you like but those are his words.

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Jean on June 10, 2012, 09:46:14 AM
I've participated in all the Structure and Local plan inquiries for this area for nearly 30 years now on behalf of Swindon Friends of the Earth. The Eastern Development Area came forward as a draft planning policy for the Structure Plan before the  Front Garden was proposed. It was actually the Panel at the Examination in Public of the Wilts Structure Plan who told the planning authorities to forget developing east ("Swindon is not expected to grow at rates that characterised previous years" - a quote from Regional Planning Guidance at the time) and to look again. At the time, David Wilson Homes had already submitted a planning application for the so-named "Eastgate" proposal and this included a university campus. It didn't go anywhere once the Panel ruled out development to the east.

After that the Front Garden ended up being adopted as the next expansion area in the Structure Plan. 

The Government then decided that Swindon should grow substantially again - a Principal Urban Area - hence the high forecasts in the discredited draft Regional Spatial Strategy when around 12,000 houses were allocated to the east of Swindon.

So you could blame a Government-appointed planning panel for stopping growth in an eastern direction about 15 years ago.   
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Smiler on June 10, 2012, 09:50:57 AM
Jean I never knew you were so close to the Tories!!
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: George Elliot on June 10, 2012, 10:37:16 AM
The Libdem party sometime referred to as the LibDo nothing party did a lot  in the recent all out election in Ridgeway Cllr Bennatt and his fellow Tories were caught out by LibDem leaflets warning of development in and around Ridgeway.

This is why the Tories are suffering in Wroughton and had a near miss in Wanborough as they are all for the bulldozer anyone making excuses for them is no better. James Boyd done his bit for the people who do not support deal brokering Tories for builders to develop Swindon's open spaces.

Those in the EDA sorry Eastern Villages could possibly have a shock in store for them as the land for 12,000 homes is still there. The devlopment line on it has been contracted to allow only 7,500 houses. There you have it land is always there for the 12,000 homes and as North Swindon has proven a lot more!

Perhaps someone can explain why it was said that the East development at Kingsdown could not go ahead until  the SDA was built up. Then Coate was allowed because the SDA did not have enough supply. Hook could not go ahead because Coate was going ahead so the housing supply was satisfied and Ridgeway Farm is not suitable because  Tadpole is more suitable for housing supply in Swindon.  Union Square is housing supply, but does not count as it is in Central and it is perceived that local councillors think it is a car park!

The is no core strategy except for the 2009 version approved by council yes planning officers perceive there is an emerging one, but omit to point out that is not valid as it has not bee approved by council. 1500 objections to the emerging one, but the people and councillors  have so far not had any chance to discuss it. But as I have said it is perceived by some people that Panning Officers speak of it as if it has been approved.

Tadpole farm if refused will also be lost on appeal do the the council know that?  I say that based on as much evidence that the emerging core strategy has been approved by SBC councillors they are I perceive inter alia.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: the gorgon on June 10, 2012, 11:00:49 AM
@Jean
"You don't work for David Wilson Homes, do you? They have been promoting development in East Swindon for donkeys years now. Ask them why the development hasn't started."

No Jean just an ordinary citizen by day but the Oakhurst Avenger by night! My mission is to protect the citizens of gotham from the corrupting influences of power in city hall. My latest crusade is to uncover the reasons why this council is promoting development in the northwest and south of Swindon but is doing everything to stop development in the East. The evidence base has always identified the East as the most sustainable direction of growth for Swindon yet no development has occurred there. Don't you find that odd?

There is meant to be a saying amongst town planner, that's along the lines of "you don't build outside your bypass".  The reason is because once you do that development becomes unfettered and the very development you oppose now probably becomes even more likely.

I've attached a map of EDA study area from the SBC just to remind people how large an area it covered.

You're doing the right thing in opposing the Tadpole Lane development, but you sound like a NIMBY when promoting wide scale destruction of countryside to the east of Swindon, you can develop but not in my back yard!  I'm sure building in the EDA would have a negative impact on all the people living on or off Oxford Road or Merlin Way and around Edison Road and Dorcan Way (the EDA access points).

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: George Elliot on June 10, 2012, 11:13:19 AM
Gorg

Yep it's a big one! Not I am not a Nimby, but I believe Swindon has had too much development in the North and West. Anyway people in the East are it is percieved in favour of Morrisons and that is a massive store.  It is an out of town store inside Dorcan. What will happen to the shops  at Coleview and the people who want to keep their shopping centre viable? Ask the people of Haydonwick who perceive that Tory councillors dont ask they speak for! If they want to remove speed restrictions to speed up traffic in Thames Avenue.

So that traffic can get past Morrisons quickly.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Smiler on June 10, 2012, 11:31:18 AM
Look, can we get back on thread.  This thread is about Tadpole going before planning on Tuesday.  It belies the fact that development in Swindon is a casino where residents win or lose on the perception of votes.   The approach is dysfunctional at best and political at worse.  Officers appear to have mind in neutral one day and the next day members appear to put them on pedestals as the font of all knowledge. 

The only common thread to this is Justin Tomlinson, MP and Dale Heenan.  Oh and of course Rod Bluh.  Three wise men or three wise monkeys?  It's like playing a fruit machine.  You pull the lever down and you're not sure if you're going get three melons or three lucky stars depending on your location.

If the residents all over north west and north east Swindon worked together then the politicians would be exposed and their decision- making machine would become the dud it is!!

Come on support each other and tell Tomlinson, Heenan and Bluh to stop gambling with Swindon's future.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Muggins on June 10, 2012, 11:43:29 AM
"The is no core strategy except for the 2009 version approved by council yes planning officers perceive there is an emerging one, but omit to point out that is not valid as it has not bee approved by council. 1500 objections to the emerging one, but the people and councillors  have so far not had any chance to discuss it. But as I have said it is perceived by some people that Panning Officers speak of it as if it has been approved"

With any development in which I have been involved, it was as above, "in the next plan", it has never mattered much whether it was passed or not, and this included any legislation/guidance on development or building requirements, if developers wanted it they got it!

I listened VERY carefully and learned from our local Friends of the Earth and The Protection of Rural England, knowing that they are very up with the 'hot topics' and current legislation and jolly well knew how to present a case on all levels.

Here's one thing I learned from experience..........the terminology used. Like 'appropriate'. What we need from our politicians is a straight forward sentence like "I am against development" to believe them.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Smiler on June 10, 2012, 11:59:27 AM
Quote
The Core Strategy & Development Management Policies 2026 DPD is a material consideration.  However, this is some way from adoption so it has been afforded limited weight.

said by the Secretary of State reference the decision to uphold the Coate Appeal (March 2012)

Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: The Oakhurst Avenger on June 10, 2012, 12:01:31 PM
@Jean
"The proposed Eastern Development Area is not a small-scale urban extension - it is essentially the basis of creating another town. At the time of the study, the EDA was proposed to accommodate 12,000 new homes. This figure was subsequently reduced in the 2011 draft Core Strategy to 7,500 homes. I have no idea why the site has not come forward yet but I doubt that SBC (for a change) is to blame."

Tadpole Farm (1700) + Pry Farm (3000) + Ridgeway (800) + ? = 5500 homes+ That is not a small-scale urban extension either. That is minimum half the size of the current NDA added on again. Furthermore, the developers have options on much of the land between North Swindon and Cricklade I understand. The developer's application for Pry Farm is ready to go I believe.

@The Gorgon
"You're doing the right thing in opposing the Tadpole Lane development, but you sound like a NIMBY when promoting wide scale destruction of countryside to the east of Swindon, you can develop but not in my back yard!  I'm sure building in the EDA would have a negative impact on all the people living on or off Oxford Road or Merlin Way and around Edison Road and Dorcan Way (the EDA access points)."

Houses have to be built somewhere to sustain economic growth. The question is where should they be built. That is why we require development decisions to be based upon objective planning advice and evidence, not upon short-term decisions driven by local politics. The objective evidence - not my evidence - said the future direction of growth for Swindon should be to the East into the countryside you mention. All I am doing is pointing out that planning in Swindon is not being driven by facts and sound evidence...but by politics.

@George Elliott
"Those in the EDA sorry Eastern Villages could possibly have a shock in store for them as the land for 12,000 homes is still there. The devlopment line on it has been contracted to allow only 7,500 houses. There you have it land is always there for the 12,000 homes and as North Swindon has proven a lot more!"

I still re-iterate my point. Not a house has been built in the East (whether you are working off the 7,500 plan or the 12,000 plan). If the 7,500 had been started then the decision of where you build the next lot - in the North or South, or again in the East is quite different. This is nothing to do with David Wilson Homes (they would build tomorrow if they were allowed). It is also nothing to do with the Planning Inspector - that is a complete red herring. It is pure and simple to do with back room deals between the SBC and developers. The council decides which developments get built first and which ones they defer to later.




Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 10, 2012, 12:04:36 PM
How the Tories have ignored the evidence base for the future direction of growth for Swindon.

The aims of the Swindon Joint Study 2026, were:

? to establish a long-term, achievable vision to 2026 for the Swindon
Joint Study Area encompassing not only land use planning issues but
also those of health, education, culture and sport.
? to consider how future development in the Swindon Joint Study Area to
2026 can help to achieve the aims and objectives identified for the
area.
? to produce a succinct report/recommendations readily able to be
included in the Regional Spatial Strategy and also in a form which can
be used effectively in the production of Local Development
Frameworks and other planning documents within the boundary of
Swindon Joint Study Area.

Three strategic locations for growth were tested within the Swindon
Joint Study: east of Swindon, north west of Swindon and south west of
Swindon.

The consultation on the Joint Study attracted a significant number of
responses in relation to locations for future growth. Whilst expressing
concern about growth, the public have shown a general preference in the
consultation for development to the east of Swindon, although other
stakeholders did not come to a consensus on this.

Conclusions of the Joint Study were as follows:

The results of the Swindon Joint Study indicate that the area to the east of
Swindon is identified as the generally the most sustainable direction of
growth
for all three growth scenarios. Although the East is constrained by the
A419 / A420, there are more options in this direction to overcome this
challenge than is the case for the challenges facing the North West or South
West. It is also physically closer to several centres of employment than
either of the other sites. It is a large area with no critical landscape features
and few biodiversity constraints.

The results of the Swindon Joint Study indicate that the area to the North
West of Swindon is identified as generally the least sustainable direction for
growth
for all three growth scenarios. The North West is the most remote site
from the key centres of employment and is also remote from major existing
highway infrastructure to which it would require a connection. The area also
has several high quality habitats and is fragmented in landscape terms. In the
North West development would have a major impact on a largely unchanged
historic landscape.

The results of the Swindon Joint Study indicate that the area to the South
West of Swindon in sustainability terms fall between the above two options
.
In landscape terms it is developable in two parts with very few biodiversity
constraints and, in terms of flood risk, has the highest potential for growth.

But look what is happening instead. The graphs attached compare the housing split between the growth directions for Swindon going forward under the old Regional Spatial Strategy (which the Joint Study informed), the Tories Draft Core Strategy (still to be adopted), and also the third scenario which is the Draft Core Strategy plus Ridgeway Farm and Pry Farm (if they go ahead).

Instead of the East being the future direction of growth for Swindon - which was the conclusion of the Joint Study - the direction of growth is actually being steered in the less sustainable directions to the Northwest and South of Swindon. The exact opposite of what the evidence base in the Joint Study said should happen. :wakeup:

Oakhurst Avenger

Thank you for putting this post up, it says quite a lot a picture is worth a 1,000 words they say. Keep contributing to this topic as your information is is a subtle as a developer's brief making a sustainabilty statement on behalf of a developer at a planning appeal.  ;D
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Smiler on June 10, 2012, 12:25:38 PM
So why are the blue court saying that Tadpole can't be defended on Appeal?  Where there's a will, there's a way!  Or is a lot of mis-information being put out by the blue crowd to please the pro-developer wing in the government?  Do they dance to a different piper than the local crowd?  Is it all smoke and mirrors?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 10, 2012, 01:15:34 PM
Looking at the Bypass comment I thought it was more about boundaries? In my Lifetime I have seen many bypasses, around the country become inner distributionroads or just plain relief roads, as building around them was achieved. Hook St on the boundary with Wilts Council comes to mind no bypass in fact there is only Hook Street and in stretches is a single track with passing places. It was not won by the developer on appeal in absence of a bypass. Though Great Western Way is to some viewed as a bypass.

The Ridgeway Farm appeal, was different again the argument for not allowing Ridgeway Farm as I understood it (subject to Inspector's report) and in my opinion around housing supply in Swindon and that Tadpole Farm of 1750 will meet that supply. For information to anyone interested I do not recall any North Swindon Councillors attending the appeal whilst I was there or the North MP. However South Swindon turned up Robert Buckland MP attended and Cllr Nick Martin also made his presence felt by supporting Shaw Residents at the proceedings.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 10, 2012, 01:31:33 PM
@Smiler
"So why are the blue court saying that Tadpole can't be defended on Appeal?  Where there's a will, there's a way!  Or is a lot of mis-information being put out by the blue crowd to please the pro-developer wing in the government?  Do they dance to a different piper than the local crowd?  Is it all smoke and mirrors?"

Actually under the rules of the new NPPF if they are applied correctly Tadpole Farm has a good chance to win an appeal based upon the following facts/evidence:

1. Tadpole Farm is not part of any current adopted development plan for Swindon.
2. The Draft Core Strategy is not an adopted development plan, and thus Tadpole Farms allocation of 1700 houses in it, albeit a material consideration, should be afforded only limited weight compared with point 1 above in accordance with the Secretary of State's decision dated 27th March 2012 on Commonhead.
3. The best location for the 1000 dwellings required by Wilts & Structure Plan 2016 at West of Swindon depends on whether you choose to believe the conclusions of the Principal Urban Area Study (which informed the Structure Plan - an adopted document material in decision-making under the NPPF rules) or the Small-scale Swindon Urban Extensions Study (which informed the Regional Spatial Strategy (now revoked)). The former said Tadpole Farm (River Ray) should not be taken forward, the latter said it should. If I were a QC I would argue that the former carries more weight because its conclusions ended up in an adopted development plan (Structure Plan 2016), whilst the latter did not (the RSS and Draft Core Strategy).
4. The disadvantages of taking current Tadpole Farm application forward in its present state in manys view outweigh the benefits. On the benefits side there is the construction work and the supply of more housing in Swindon (economic arguments, albeit the housing supply argument is more contentious in current housing market in Swindon). On the negative side there are the severe impacts on existing communities because of infrastructure deficits of the application particularly on highways and school places in North. Item 4 is key in this case where the adopted development plan is silent on the Tadpole Farm application.
5. Deliverability - a key consideration of the NPPF when considering applications. The Tadpole Farm application relies on the delivery of a new link road to the A419, the rapid bus transit to work on a long term basis to reduce trips by car as calculated in Crest's Transport Assessment, and an upgrade to the waste water network, amongst other things.  The Council has already acknowledged it does not know where it can get the money from for the necessary highway infrastructure improvements in Swindon required to support development.

As you say if there is a will there is always a way - with the help of a good QC.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Mr Grumble on June 10, 2012, 02:02:39 PM
Hello, may I introduce myself - Mr Grumble.

I've been reading this thread for quite a while now and couldn't hold back my questions any longer.

Why wasn't Justin Tomlinson at the Ridgeway Farm appeal?  Where were the ward councillors?  If they're so against it then why aren't they doing the job they're paid for?

Is this the same Tomlinson who was the ward councillor in Abbey Meads during the house building programme in North Swindon?  If he is then how can he be against inappropriate development?  Didn't he support the concrete jungle he's helped to create or don't councillors have any influence over decisions?  If that's the case then what's the point of electing them?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: the gorgon on June 10, 2012, 03:25:35 PM
Looking at the Bypass comment I thought it was more about boundaries?

You might well be right there Steve, what I quoted is probably 4th or 5th hand information.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 10, 2012, 04:12:35 PM
@ Mr Grumble
"Why wasn't Justin Tomlinson at the Ridgeway Farm appeal?  Where were the ward councillors?  If they're so against it then why aren't they doing the job they're paid for?"

What they say and what they do are two quite different things. Justin Tomlinson and the ward councillors voted to approve the Draft Core Strategy and the 1700 houses at Tadpole Farm therein. This has been the story of the last 2 years and why residents in the North have been so frustrated with their lack of interest in addressing residents concerns with the Crest application.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Steve Wakefield on June 10, 2012, 04:22:35 PM
Gorgon

You are probably right as well in my opinion planning and its outcomes are occaisionally as subjective as they are objective :wink:

Interesting bit on localism etc on this site http://www.wilbrahamassociates.co.uk/Info/Planning-News.aspx (http://www.wilbrahamassociates.co.uk/Info/Planning-News.aspx)
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Candide7 on June 10, 2012, 11:07:05 PM
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm_homes/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm_homes/)

Well the weekend has come and gone and still no sign of any leaflets from our Tory ward councillors. Bit late now if they wanted to get residents out for Tuesday as the Adver article writes.

Sums up the Tories in this ward - at best ineffective and incompetent, at worst not being straight with residents since I doubt there were any leaflets delivered... Just a PR stunt to convince people they were doing something when the opposite is the real truth
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: George Elliot on June 11, 2012, 10:56:59 PM
I was under the impression that thousands were going to be delivered.
Quote
Ward councillors for St Andrews and Priory Vale will deliver 4,000 letters ahead of Swindon Council’s planning committee meeting at 6pm on Tuesday at the Civic Offices.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: I Could Do That on June 11, 2012, 11:07:23 PM
Has anyone got a leaflet yet?  :crazy2:
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Mr Grumble on June 11, 2012, 11:39:55 PM
Why didn't the residents of the Justinian concrete jungle get one?

Has the blue campaign team got smaller?  Someone told me that there was only a handful of juniors in the Blunsdon Arms on Saturday to fight for Boudicca and her friend.
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: MrGrumpy on June 11, 2012, 11:40:57 PM
Not a sniff of the much publicised Tory leaflet in my part of Priory Vale - have yet to hear from anyone who has seen one....was it 4000 leaflets or hen's teeth they were supposed to be delivering?
Title: Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
Post by: Geoff Reid on March 11, 2013, 08:52:10 PM


Administrator Comment Part One of this topic is now locked

Part Two continues here: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2 (http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/topic,9241.0.html)