Talkswindon

Big Local Issues & Enquiries => Swindon Residents Parking Scheme => Topic started by: 20Eyes on November 23, 2010, 12:18:30 PM

Title: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: 20Eyes on November 23, 2010, 12:18:30 PM
So, just got the latest LibDem Focus flyer through the door and they're still banging on about freeing up urgently needed street parking in Old Town by removing what I suspect would be several miles of completely unnecessary single and double yellow lines.

Seriously, I've been hearing about this plan for years now. It's one of the most sensible ideas I've heard in decades and is easily implemented; I'd be happy to buy a can of black paint and do it myself in my own street - zero cost to the council.

Why hasn't it happened yet and why isn't it happening NOW? It can't solely be down to the council worrying about losing  parking ticket revenue, surely?

In fact, can anyone with legal knowledge tell me what happens if a member of the public paints over yellow lines and then somebody else parks on the area that's been painted over? Surely the person who parks there can't be held accountable for parking somewhere they thought was legal?

If so, what's to stop everyone painting over the lines outside their house? They can't put us all in prison. That would be even less likely to happen in a town overseen by Judge Douglas 'Prisons? Hmm, nope. Jails, you say? Not sure what you mean. I'm not aware that either exist... and even if they do I won't be sending convicts there' Field.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Ringer on November 23, 2010, 01:41:05 PM
I read the flyer this morning over coffee and found it was very interesting as it did not attack the Tory council, but attacked Labour, which was really puzzling, as the tories run the council.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Spectre on November 23, 2010, 01:55:58 PM
I read the flyer this morning over coffee and found it was very interesting as it did not attack the Tory council, but attacked Labour, which was really puzzling, as the tories run the council.

Not surprising then is it. Probably written at Lib/Con Party HQ up there at Lunnon. ;)
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Chris Watts on November 23, 2010, 01:56:29 PM
So, just got the latest LibDem Focus flyer through the door and they're still banging on about freeing up urgently needed street parking in Old Town by removing what I suspect would be several miles of completely unnecessary single and double yellow lines.

Seriously, I've been hearing about this plan for years now. It's one of the most sensible ideas I've heard in decades and is easily implemented; I'd be happy to buy a can of black paint and do it myself in my own street - zero cost to the council.

Why hasn't it happened yet and why isn't it happening NOW? It can't solely be down to the council worrying about losing  parking ticket revenue, surely?

In fact, can anyone with legal knowledge tell me what happens if a member of the public paints over yellow lines and then somebody else parks on the area that's been painted over? Surely the person who parks there can't be held accountable for parking somewhere they thought was legal?

If so, what's to stop everyone painting over the lines outside their house? They can't put us all in prison. That would be even less likely to happen in a town overseen by Judge Douglas 'Prisons? Hmm, nope. Jails, you say? Not sure what you mean. I'm not aware that either exist... and even if they do I won't be sending convicts there' Field.


There is a point when you have to stop talking about it in your leaflets and actually show your face in the council chamber and get your voice heard. Something that I have not seen from the Lib Dems. Fair enough, Stan Pajak had two motions at the last council meeting to do with the council supporting us moving to central European time and twinning with a town in Poland. Half the Lib Dem councillors could not be bothered to show up and support him. Going to council meetings is a good stating point in what representing your ward is all about.

I agree entirely with the Libdems who in the flyer do not agree with everything the coalition government do as per the leaflet. I think I read somewhere on TS years ago that Cllr Stan Pajack was on the County Council when the parking thing went in and it was the County transport policy that allowed it? If that is the case he did not comment in the leaflet about that anywhere?

I also notice that they condemn the Tories for not seconding their proposal over the gate on the Regent Circus Development. I also noted that it must have slipped their mind that 25% of the Libdems on the council and 100% of Libdems and 100% of the Tories on the planning committee voted for the Regents Circus development (including not having the so called gate). Whilst the only one who voted against the  development was a Labour councillor.


Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Geoff Reid on November 23, 2010, 03:11:30 PM
 
Anyone got a copy of the leaflet they'd care to send to me?

Blaming Labour for the Regents Place planning approval sounds like Swindons LibDems are already fighting next Mays election campaign because Labours candidate for Eastcott is panicking them into making dubious election statements.

This sounds like one of Councillor Harrisons non-election-election-leaflets to me.  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Spectre on November 23, 2010, 03:32:01 PM
Chris has got one !
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: DaveWood on November 23, 2010, 04:58:46 PM
So, just got the latest LibDem Focus flyer through the door and they're still banging on about freeing up urgently needed street parking in Old Town by removing what I suspect would be several miles of completely unnecessary single and double yellow lines.

Seriously, I've been hearing about this plan for years now. It's one of the most sensible ideas I've heard in decades and is easily implemented; I'd be happy to buy a can of black paint and do it myself in my own street - zero cost to the council.

Why hasn't it happened yet and why isn't it happening NOW? It can't solely be down to the council worrying about losing  parking ticket revenue, surely?

In fact, can anyone with legal knowledge tell me what happens if a member of the public paints over yellow lines and then somebody else parks on the area that's been painted over? Surely the person who parks there can't be held accountable for parking somewhere they thought was legal?

If so, what's to stop everyone painting over the lines outside their house? They can't put us all in prison. That would be even less likely to happen in a town overseen by Judge Douglas 'Prisons? Hmm, nope. Jails, you say? Not sure what you mean. I'm not aware that either exist... and even if they do I won't be sending convicts there' Field.

It feels like it should be a straight forward thing, but somehow it manages to be very complicated with traffic orders to be revoked, (needless to say) consultants to be employed, consultation to do. 

There was a stripping back of yellow lines about 18 months ago which started as a big exercise and ended up just being a dozen or so spaces.

What this really relies on is the Council seeing the need an wanting to do it.  Previously they haven't, but under CPCP, oddly, it's become a big thing and I'm more optimistic about taking up yellow lines than I have been in ages.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: DaveWood on November 23, 2010, 05:04:40 PM
I read the flyer this morning over coffee and found it was very interesting as it did not attack the Tory council, but attacked Labour, which was really puzzling, as the tories run the council.

That's the trouble with politics.  There's an assumption that whoever is in charge - whoever you want 'out' - you should just hammer them relentlessly, and ignore the failings of others.

As it happened in the last month the Council has done a couple of positive things and I think Labour have been sending out the wrong messages.

When someone does something wrong I'll tell it like it is, not just attack the same old people because it's what's 'expected'.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: 20Eyes on November 23, 2010, 05:06:53 PM
Again, what happens if people paint over yellow lines in their road?

What's the point of the council sending someone out to repaint them, they may as well just 'bring forward' the decision to allow people to park freely.

Would save a LOT of money in these dark days of austerity.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: DaveWood on November 23, 2010, 05:13:13 PM
Again, what happens if people paint over yellow lines in their road?

What's the point of the council sending someone out to repaint them, they may as well just 'bring forward' the decision to allow people to park freely.

Would save a LOT of money in these dark days of austerity.

I'm sure it's illegal.  Would you like me to check the penalty?

I think the most practical consequence would be safety.  Some YLs are there for a reason, some are over-zealous.  If they were randomly removed fire engines would not be able to access the streets.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Steve Wakefield on November 23, 2010, 05:15:21 PM
I read the flyer this morning over coffee and found it was very interesting as it did not attack the Tory council, but attacked Labour, which was really puzzling, as the tories run the council.

That's the trouble with politics.  There's an assumption that whoever is in charge - whoever you want 'out' - you should just hammer them relentlessly, and ignore the failings of others.

As it happened in the last month the Council has done a couple of positive things and I think Labour have been sending out the wrong messages.

When someone does something wrong I'll tell it like it is, not just attack the same old people because it's what's 'expected'.

If Labour have been sending out the wrong message a couple of recorded votes taken lately will show that LibDem councillors voted with Labour on budget proposals and LibDems did not support Conservative recast budget.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: DaveWood on November 23, 2010, 05:18:57 PM
I agree entirely with the Libdems who in the flyer do not agree with everything the coalition government do as per the leaflet. I think I read somewhere on TS years ago that Cllr Stan Pajack was on the County Council when the parking thing went in and it was the County transport policy that allowed it? If that is the case he did not comment in the leaflet about that anywhere?

If we were against RP that would be something to say, but we were pro RP then and we still are now.

I also notice that they condemn the Tories for not seconding their proposal over the gate on the Regent Circus Development. I also noted that it must have slipped their mind that 25% of the Libdems on the council and 100% of Libdems and 100% of the Tories on the planning committee voted for the Regents Circus development (including not having the so called gate). Whilst the only one who voted against the  development was a Labour councillor.

As I stood up and said in the chamber, at the time, our residents were pro-Gate.  But they were also pro-Development even in the absence of a gate.

I think Martin would have been doing a dis-service to residents if he had not voted in favour - with the caveat about monitoring site access in the future - and the majority of residents agreed.

What I am surprised about is that only one Labour cllr voted against, when prior to the meeting other Labour cllrs made it clear how opposed they are to the current regeneration.

Far from being over-looked, Labours attitude to regeneration will be spoken about in some length going forwards.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: DaveWood on November 23, 2010, 05:19:55 PM
If Labour have been sending out the wrong message a couple of recorded votes taken lately will show that LibDem councillors voted with Labour on budget proposals and LibDems did not support Conservative recast budget.

Yes, those votes were not the ones I referred to.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: 20Eyes on November 23, 2010, 05:21:38 PM
I'm sure it's illegal.  Would you like me to check the penalty?

That would be of interest. Quite how anyone could prove who'd done it would be of even more interest.

I think the most practical consequence would be safety.  Some YLs are there for a reason, some are over-zealous.  If they were randomly removed fire engines would not be able to access the streets.

Yes, that's often the excuse that's trotted out. It makes very little sense when you look at how most yellow lines are used.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: DaveWood on November 23, 2010, 05:23:34 PM

Anyone got a copy of the leaflet they'd care to send to me?

Blaming Labour for the Regents Place planning approval sounds like Swindons LibDems are already fighting next Mays election campaign because Labours candidate for Eastcott is panicking them into making dubious election statements.

This sounds like one of Councillor Harrisons non-election-election-leaflets to me.  ;D

Hand on heart I can say Labour's choice of candidate doesn't impact our leaflets.

Btw, I think you misunderstood Chris' comments above.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Chris Watts on November 23, 2010, 06:06:54 PM

As I stood up and said in the chamber, at the time, our residents were pro-Gate.  But they were also pro-Development even in the absence of a gate.

I think Martin would have been doing a dis-service to residents if he had not voted in favour - with the caveat about monitoring site access in the future - and the majority of residents agreed.

What I am surprised about is that only one Labour cllr voted against, when prior to the meeting other Labour cllrs made it clear how opposed they are to the current regeneration.

That is one more than a Lib Dem Councillor. He did not accept the Tory argument, backed by the Lib Dems of, "accept this or we will lump you with a derelict site for a generation". You were too eager to swallow the Tory fantasy.

Hand on heart I can say Labour's choice of candidate doesn't impact our leaflets.

Hand on heart I would like thank you for your honesty. It's good to hear that your party does not let such things as another party's choice of candidate impact on your leaflets.   O0

Not like that party's sorry candidate that has a leaflet on another TS thread that mentioned a Tory from old town?



Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: DaveWood on November 23, 2010, 06:46:00 PM
That is one more than a Lib Dem Councillor. He did not accept the Tory argument, backed by the Lib Dems of, "accept this or we will lump you with a derelict site for a generation". You were too eager to swallow the Tory fantasy.

That is wrong, I'm afraid.

Hand on heart I would like thank you for your honesty. It's good to hear that your party does not let such things as another party's choice of candidate impact on your leaflets.   O0
Not like that party's sorry candidate that has a leaflet on another TS thread that mentioned a Tory from old town?

There is a difference.  I'll leave it up to your imagination ;)
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Mart on November 23, 2010, 06:53:17 PM
To be honest you'd be hard pushed to get a chubby bloke with a fire extinguisher up most of the roads, yellow lines or no yellow lines.

That argument is a load of old pony.

Come to think of it, you couldn't get a pony up there either.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: bobwright on November 24, 2010, 01:21:52 AM
Dave has broadly spelt out the difficulties with the Yellow line thing. A couple years back we asked for action to be taken to create more parking spaces.  Halcrow did a survey and possible lines to be safely removed were identified The survey had flaws in my view specifically in the Dean St/Newburn Crescent area where real possibilities exist to assist resident parking. I am afraid progress has been slow and is probably down to costs.

Regarding the Regent Circus development as previously stated I believe a mistake was made by including a supermarket within the Cultural development. I understand the scheme may depend on this development however in my view the client should have had a split site with the Supermarket being to a more suitable location. It should also be remembered there was a conflict with the Modus development not only did an objection get raised against the BHS development in order to get/keep key shops into the Granville St project the scheme also contained a food hall and a cinema. It is going to be tougher for any developer replacing Modus, a food hall would have suited the Granville St site better.

The Libs did fight hard for a gate, Labour would have fought for a better scheme. I believe the acceptance was based on the fear of failing again and a drive to get rid of the college. What happened to the vision of getting the best for Swindon? This vision was applied to the Pipers Way scheme but appears to have been sacrificed for expedience. Perhaps one significant difference between current Swindon Labour thinking and opposition thinking is long term planning has to be supported not sacrificed. One final thought what if the supermarket is 24 hour, will a gate help?
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Ringer on November 24, 2010, 07:54:34 AM

Regarding the Regent Circus development as previously stated I believe a mistake was made by including a supermarket within the Cultural development. I understand the scheme may depend on this development however in my view the client should have had a split site with the Supermarket being to a more suitable location. It should also be remembered there was a conflict with the Modus development not only did an objection get raised against the BHS development in order to get/keep key shops into the Granville St project the scheme also contained a food hall and a cinema. It is going to be tougher for any developer replacing Modus, a food hall would have suited the Granville St site better.

One final thought what if the supermarket is 24 hour, will a gate help?


Dave/Bob

It may appear incredulous to some that councillors can come on here and point out the difficulties of removing a bit of yellow paint! Then crow about building libraries schools and Regent Circus, how come it is so easy to do those things and not get some paint removed? Why does it take only 2 years to build a new library and yet it is 20 years and a yellow line is still there? Please explain why you as councillors cannot achieve this? I spotted the excuse clue it was the "Money what does it" a library £12,000,000 how much to remove lines £12,000, £1200 or £120?

I think councillors could be accused of trying to insult ordinary people's intelligence when in one breath claim thumbs up to us we cracked the old college eyesore and then in the next say sorry it is so difficult to remove a splodge of yellow paint? Some of you will probably pat yourselves on the back when it comes to talking about selling the Oasis? But despite such a difficult and complex deal you cannot burn a bit of paint off a road and take down a sign?  Is the truth that  it is not a political priority? Or have you no power or worse are you all part of a  rude spittle flecked shouting talking shop? Do you ever sit down and talk/email/write to the Greenhalgh chappie who appears to have responsibility for amongst other things roads, transport, planning and cabinet proclamations? Can you not ask Greeneye to fix it for you? After all you are you not all elected representatives, working hard all year around for Swindon?

Bob will Muse fail because it cannot knock out some cans of beans, a few sandwiches and bottled water from its planned paradise? I read on TS that the car park it will require needs to be built by the council?

Is it possible to tell us  what it cost to sign the  Modus deal http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=3600.0 (http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=3600.0) in the house of commons, travel, officer time etc? It may have been better spent on yellow paint removal?

The gate it is not just a supermarket are bars and restaurants not in the development as well? As the economy is now 24hrs will they be open almost Dawn to Dawn? With people and deliveries taking place?
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Muggins on November 24, 2010, 08:57:38 AM
"Why does it take only 2 years to build a new library and yet it is 20 years and a yellow line is still there"

It didn't take just two years to build a new library, it might have taken that time for the building to be erected but that issue was ongoing for something like 30 years before it actually happened.

What happened to get the yellow lines there in the first place?  It's funny how we can't (never have been able to) get done what needs doing, so my thought is that something must have triggered off the need for yellow lines, what was that? 
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Steve Wakefield on November 24, 2010, 09:57:26 AM
"Why does it take only 2 years to build a new library and yet it is 20 years and a yellow line is still there"

It didn't take just two years to build a new library, it might have taken that time for the building to be erected but that issue was ongoing for something like 30 years before it actually happened.

What happened to get the yellow lines there in the first place?  It's funny how we can't (never have been able to) get done what needs doing, so my thought is that something must have triggered off the need for yellow lines, what was that?

Are you pointing out that Stan Pajack was on the county council and I think he was on libraries committee, is it a bit of a coincidence that it took 30 years, but to correct you I have been at openings and Rod Bluh actually said it was 50 years?  WCC only gave the Library service over to SBC in 1997 Give credit where credit is due, not a bad achievement that it was built and opened within 8 years of SBC taking over and yes within 3 years of the conservative administration taking office.

Muggins you know as well as I do it was to ensure that people parked in the car parks to underpin a revenue dtream and to keep the streets available for  residents in the local area. I am sure that at the time residents were very pleased that they would be able to park outside their houses.

I am surprised that it is so difficult to get the lines sorted, but then I am not the local councillor. I know that we have been able to get a culvert enlarged and a new school built in my ward in less than 4 years. However moving a dog bin is a gordian knot that is why I am so enthusiastic about 1 swindon. I am sure that Bob and Dave will get their 1 Swindon to sort the lines. Hat tip to cllr Dale Heenan who is working hard to get this up and running.

For those that don't know 1 Swindon is the child of CP2 and Connecting People Connecting Places, and the grandchild of Area Panels/forums so it comes from good parentage. You will all have your own individual 1 Swindon Director, who will co ordinate everything in that area, unless I have that wrong? Cllr Bob Wright is more of an expert on this subject so he maybe able to join in and tell you exactly what is happening?

Not having much yellow paint or other restrictions on my area I know little about the vagaries of a 20 year stretch of yellow lines, so will refrain from commenting. I would say that in the past I have objected to lines when they were proposed, that have in the end not been put down. I do this because as I have learned the hard way once that paint is down it is a devil's own job to get it removed. Give credit where credit is due Cllr Greenhalgh has I have to admit been good to Toothill and Westlea as we have not had a rash of restrictions, lines or calming measures.

I am sure if Bob and Dave had a meeting with Peter he would be able to assist them in some way.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: 20Eyes on November 24, 2010, 12:39:43 PM
BTW, the Council don't appear to be at all concerned that a road next to mine has just had its entire length of double yellow lines dug up and then tarmac re-applied, leaving the road without any double yellows.

Do developers have immunity when it comes to removing yellow lines? I expect the one in question does as it bought otherwise unusable land from... oh yes, the Council. It's amazing how many blind eyes have been turned during their extended period of throwing up shitty flats.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Muggins on November 24, 2010, 03:28:11 PM
Surely there was a public notice in the paper, usually is, and notices on lamposts etc.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: 20Eyes on November 24, 2010, 04:46:40 PM
Surely there was a public notice in the paper, usually is, and notices on lamposts etc.

Nope. Not for the road digging there wasn't. They dug up the entire double yellow line area and simply tarmaced back over it once they'd finished. Hey presto - no yellow lines.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: DaveWood on November 24, 2010, 05:17:46 PM

Regarding the Regent Circus development as previously stated I believe a mistake was made by including a supermarket within the Cultural development. I understand the scheme may depend on this development however in my view the client should have had a split site with the Supermarket being to a more suitable location. It should also be remembered there was a conflict with the Modus development not only did an objection get raised against the BHS development in order to get/keep key shops into the Granville St project the scheme also contained a food hall and a cinema. It is going to be tougher for any developer replacing Modus, a food hall would have suited the Granville St site better.

One final thought what if the supermarket is 24 hour, will a gate help?


Dave/Bob

It may appear incredulous to some that councillors can come on here and point out the difficulties of removing a bit of yellow paint! Then crow about building libraries schools and Regent Circus, how come it is so easy to do those things and not get some paint removed? Why does it take only 2 years to build a new library and yet it is 20 years and a yellow line is still there? Please explain why you as councillors cannot achieve this? I spotted the excuse clue it was the "Money what does it" a library £12,000,000 how much to remove lines £12,000, £1200 or £120?

I think councillors could be accused of trying to insult ordinary people's intelligence when in one breath claim thumbs up to us we cracked the old college eyesore and then in the next say sorry it is so difficult to remove a splodge of yellow paint? Some of you will probably pat yourselves on the back when it comes to talking about selling the Oasis? But despite such a difficult and complex deal you cannot burn a bit of paint off a road and take down a sign?  Is the truth that  it is not a political priority? Or have you no power or worse are you all part of a  rude spittle flecked shouting talking shop? Do you ever sit down and talk/email/write to the Greenhalgh chappie who appears to have responsibility for amongst other things roads, transport, planning and cabinet proclamations? Can you not ask Greeneye to fix it for you? After all you are you not all elected representatives, working hard all year around for Swindon?

Bob will Muse fail because it cannot knock out some cans of beans, a few sandwiches and bottled water from its planned paradise? I read on TS that the car park it will require needs to be built by the council?

Is it possible to tell us  what it cost to sign the  Modus deal [url]http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=3600.0[/url] ([url]http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=3600.0[/url]) in the house of commons, travel, officer time etc? It may have been better spent on yellow paint removal?

The gate it is not just a supermarket are bars and restaurants not in the development as well? As the economy is now 24hrs will they be open almost Dawn to Dawn? With people and deliveries taking place?


Correct, we have no power to remove yellow lines or to order their removal, or to allocate money within that budget for the purpose. 

Bob and I were elected in 2006 on a wave of Residents Parking dissatisfcation - not with yellow lines, in the case, but with the idea of only allowing one permit per house - and following then Bob and I have worked together on the RP problem.

We had two years of very positive working along with Peter G and the 'Residents Parking Advisory Group'.  That group did some great work and plans were put in place to remove 330 cars worth of yellow lines.

Two years ago that plan eventually got time and funding.  Halcrow were employed to do a survey of Yellow Lines - to ensure the identified 330 spaces were legal - and by the time work began the number had dropped to a dozen or two.

Two years work and only a dozen or two spaces worth of lines removed.

We were then told this could be a rolling programme but that the money would not be available to continue for another couple of years.

The RPAG group abruptly stopped meeting when, behind closed doors, there was another big hike in permit prices.  Peter G never convened it again.

As we reached that period where money would have been available again, the budget squeeze happened.

Some residents talked Peter G into looking at one street in Old Town in terms of removing lines, but then Peter G linked the money involved with the college site.  Meaning it could only happen when the college development was successful.

But then CPCP got on the case.

As reported in the leaflet with the prospect of localised spending we now have a real chance to take up lines.  Astoundingly the transport department said their predecessors 'got it wrong' the previous time when they claimed all those YLs could not be taken up.  It turns out this could have all happened two years ago.

But at least now we have a scheme where next year - political weather permitting - the lines will really start to come up.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Drone on November 24, 2010, 05:47:13 PM
^ a frightening insight into the political process!!
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: DaveWood on November 24, 2010, 06:19:33 PM
^ a frightening insight into the political process!!

Tell me about it.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Drone on November 24, 2010, 06:21:43 PM
So is this an example of where CPCP could be really quite effective?
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: DaveWood on November 24, 2010, 06:39:54 PM
So is this an example of where CPCP could be really quite effective?

Indeed.  And there are other examples in the Town Centre cluster that have fallen victim to lack of political will centrally.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Mart on November 24, 2010, 09:00:22 PM
It's amazing how many blind eyes have been turned during their extended period of throwing up shitty flats.

That would be Belle Vue Road?
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: bobwright on November 24, 2010, 09:54:20 PM
Ringer you will gather that Dave and I do work together and we have worked with Peter Greenhalgh to improve residents parking and that also includes yellow line removal. My main difficulty in politics has not been the opposition but the culture which has developed and exists which prevents such simple things as line removal. Whilst things might appear to be incredulous and frightening I hope you continue to challenge.

To make changes such as yellow line removal a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) is required. I think this costs between £1500 and £2000 each. Officers try to get as many changes as possible on each order. I suspect the orders exist to help planning/safety/consideration and objection. On top of each TRO cost is the actual work cost. Around £30000 was allocated to remove yellow lines and improve residents parking however all that got removed was the £30000.

I hope I have not crowed but informed. I do challenge the Regent Circus development design, it does not reflect or compliment the excellence of the Library design (designed by an officer of the council). In my experience supermarket deliveries can occur at all hours although I do except the other businesses will probably shut by early morning.

My point on the Granville St development is if you take away the key features such as the cinema and lose key shops to the BHS development it will require another destination feature. Any helpful suggestion might inspire the project development and won't be a repeat of the existing provision.

Sorry I don't have access to the costs involved in the Modus project although in this new world of transparency they might become available?
'One Swindon' is a concept and aspiration which many people have found difficult to define so if I put up an Aunt Sally to chuck stones at we might hone something everyone understands.

Its a 'Co-op' of people, communities, organisations, united by belief, intention and behaviour to provide the most effective and suitable outcomes possible for Swindon and its residents.







Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Chris Watts on November 24, 2010, 10:21:09 PM
To make changes such as yellow line removal a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) is required. I think this costs between £1500 and £2000 each. Officers try to get as many changes as possible on each order. I suspect the orders exist to help planning/safety/consideration and objection. On top of each TRO cost is the actual work cost. Around £30000 was allocated to remove yellow lines and improve residents parking however all that got removed was the £30000.


Have I got this wrong, or are you saying that the £30,000 was swallowed up in consultation to see if the lines could be safely removed leaving nothing in the pot to actually physically remove the lines?
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: bobwright on November 24, 2010, 10:34:12 PM
Chris sorry if my wording led you to the wrong conclusion. Due to other priorities and cuts the money was no longer available. It was not swallowed up by the consultation, this occurred prior to the financial pressures stopping the intended work.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: 20Eyes on November 30, 2010, 10:00:38 AM
It's amazing how many blind eyes have been turned during their extended period of throwing up shitty flats.

That would be Belle Vue Road?

It would indeed. With 'Vicarage Court', or whatever they've called the latest prison-esque block of bedsits, being a nice reminder of everything that's wrong with the Council/Planning Department/Developer relationship dynamic.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: DaveWood on November 30, 2010, 05:24:02 PM
Quote
Painting Black Paint onto the yellow lines is deemed as criminal damage and should be reported to the police.
 
With regards to parking on the said blacked out lines, we would issue a £70 PCN.
 
We have taken this to adjudication before and won.
 
Hope this helps
 
Regards
[Council Officer]
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: 20Eyes on November 30, 2010, 05:32:14 PM
Thanks, Dave.

Interesting that they can issue parking tickets to people who would potentially have no idea whatsoever that they'd parked incorrectly.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: mikbrains on March 22, 2011, 02:54:29 PM
Thanks, Dave.

Interesting that they can issue parking tickets to people who would potentially have no idea whatsoever that they'd parked incorrectly.
Very old forum but interesting as I picked up some information a few years back on the SA site as a regular there gave a few interesting facts as to the dreaded yellows. The issue was about a residential area where it is blanketed with double yellows and the yella perils appear at 6 am in the morning and issued hundreds of tickets. He/she pointed out the law defines double yellow lines as a means to keep main routes free from congestion to protect business. An expert was engaged who examined various areas and found all the lines did not conform to the legal requirements nor signage. He examined  Traffic orders which are required to be posted in law before implementation and also found that flawed as well. A third point being where a car was parked on double yellows and the pavement. It appears that being the law was decriminalised to allow council enforcement the council cannot issue an FPN as the higher offence nof obstruction remains a Police matter--with remarkably a lesser fine. The law was again quoted claiming when a residential area has insufficient parking (public) and insufficient off street parking which prevents the residents from parking legally by virtue of excessive yellows it can be construed as corrupt practice when councils target residential areas at 6 am. Fines by stealth. All the revenue from double yellows in law is supposed to be used for road maintenance.  Interesting.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Karsten on March 23, 2011, 04:26:11 PM
Are Double yellow lines worth this much discussion?
Are not the Residents Parking fines and what happens to the funds more important?
or
Why do visitor permits expire every year and why hasn’t any councillor tried to remove the expiry?

I personally think most Yellow Lines in Zone K are there for a purpose.
Sighting and road safety come before the inability to park.
I've seen cars having to brake hard in Birch Street to avoid kids crossing by Robert Le Kyng.
A Parent had parked on the double Yellow and was obscuring the view of the corner.
Luckily cars don't usually drive that fast.

What I find really stupid is the Scratch and Win visitor permits.
Why can they not be printed on normal card as they used to be?
They should also remove the redundant fields for name and address.
If you remember each permit was originally individually printed with our names and addresses on them for "Security" and to avoid “counterfitting” and then posted separately to the registered address.

I got pissed off about this a few years ago and reported SBC to its own data protection officer and they had to stop printing names and addresses.
So why are the fields still there and why are they still being individually printed.
It is idiotic and a waste of money.  The printing costs half the amount they are sold for.
If the permits were simplified and the expiry date removed, then the printing could be put out to tender.
I am sure they could reduce the printing cost to 1/3 or less.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: mikbrains on March 23, 2011, 07:28:27 PM
Parking will always be a problem in some areas; especially those with little or no off street parking. Of course there has to be clear areas close to schools as well as safe crossing areas. Unfortunately there will always be those who do not think parking and obscuring the view around schools.
Generally residents parking permits are over subscribed and create more problems.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Ringer on March 23, 2011, 09:06:07 PM
What I find really stupid is the Scratch and Win visitor permits.
Why can they not be printed on normal card as they used to be?
They should also remove the redundant fields for name and address.
If you remember each permit was originally individually printed with our names and addresses on them for "Security" and to avoid “counterfitting” and then posted separately to the registered address.

I got pissed off about this a few years ago and reported SBC to its own data protection officer and they had to stop printing names and addresses.
So why are the fields still there and why are they still being individually printed.
It is idiotic and a waste of money.  The printing costs half the amount they are sold for.
If the permits were simplified and the expiry date removed, then the printing could be put out to tender.
I am sure they could reduce the printing cost to 1/3 or less.

That sounds about as logical as the reasons why wifi has been such a storming success. :2funny:
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: mikbrains on March 23, 2011, 11:24:09 PM
What I find really stupid is the Scratch and Win visitor permits.
Why can they not be printed on normal card as they used to be?
They should also remove the redundant fields for name and address.
If you remember each permit was originally individually printed with our names and addresses on them for "Security" and to avoid “counterfitting” and then posted separately to the registered address.

I got pissed off about this a few years ago and reported SBC to its own data protection officer and they had to stop printing names and addresses.
So why are the fields still there and why are they still being individually printed.
It is idiotic and a waste of money.  The printing costs half the amount they are sold for.
If the permits were simplified and the expiry date removed, then the printing could be put out to tender.
I am sure they could reduce the printing cost to 1/3 or less.

That sounds about as logical as the reasons why wifi has been such a storming success. :2funny:

Of course the WiFi was a storming success.
Some wise men have made a lot of money out of it.. :fence: :2funny:
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Stretch Armstrong on March 24, 2011, 09:20:39 AM
A bigger surprise regarding the economies of scale on RP visitor tickets..

I went to buy two new books, as mine had expired...(convienient).

Tried to buy a 24 hour and a 4(I think) hour book.

council assistant asked why I would not want 2 x 24 hour books.
I explained that most visitors don't stay 24 hours, and therefore I could save some money by buying a shorter term book.

To which she, rather proudly, highlighted that they were the same price.
Of course, my confused response was to enquire, if they're the same price, why does the council issue a 4 hour book? especially when they persuade people to buy the 24 hour..

No answer. perhaps there is an explanation, but she didn't know it. and I can't work it out, other than an artificial limit on the number of 24 hour books that a house can purchase  ???
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: mikbrains on March 24, 2011, 09:48:42 AM
Yes Stretch........ most things to do with Councils make little sense. Apologies it makes sense to over issue parking permits to be sure the residents have nowhere to park as there is bound to be a few handy double yellows to get the bonus from.
Title: Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
Post by: Karsten on March 24, 2011, 06:33:59 PM
The 4 hr permits used to have more in them when they were just paper, but the new printers wanted to use a standard so the number in a pack were cut so it was the same as in the 24hr packs. 20 permits in one block.
Logical if you are in the Council and have blinkers on.

Because they were individual adressed packs, they had to be sent one by one by the printers in the post.
So you could no longer pick them up.

The whole reason for the Scratch  covering and individual printing has ceased to be (due to data protection) and is as dead as the Norwegian Blue parrot.
So there is no need for the expensive posting of the permits one by one.
Alas the man at the council thinks the parrot is just 'resting'.

I haven't bought a vistor permit pack since it cost £5. 
I only got to use 2 before they expired., so it cost me £2.50 for her to park. Now it'd be £7.50.
I was given some by a family that went back home to Lithuanian, and have been sharing these with neighbours.
I've used 2 in 6 months.
It's easier to get my sister to park in the back alley where the power of these SBC's evel hencemen is non existant.  She's often doing something in my garden anyway when she does visit.
Not so easy to drive out though as others often park in the alley's exits. Doh.  :tickedoff: