Author Topic: Is it or isn't it? - Crombey Street Cycle Lane..... or not  (Read 3268 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
Is it or isn't it? - Crombey Street Cycle Lane..... or not
« on: October 23, 2014, 05:43:52 PM »
Although Crombey Street is shown as a cycle *route* on google maps, Openfietmap and Swindon Borough Councils own cycle route map, whether the marked (on the road) cycle *lane* is actually a cycle lane anymore is open to interpretation.

Given that car parking spaces have been marked out over the cycle lane, and yellow lines painted over the white bicycle logos, I don't think it's a cycle lane anymore although (see the video) the opinion of some drivers may differ.




Comments welcome :)



Offline the gorgon

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Hello !
Re: Is it or isn't it? - Crombey Street Cycle Lane..... or not
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 06:26:34 PM »
I think it certainly was a cycle lane.  I'd have to double check but I'm pretty sure a the start of a cycle lane has to be indicated as such with a cycle painted on the road surface and/or or a blue sign.  If a lane ends it then has to be re-signed as a cycle lane, even if it's a few meters up the road.

Doing a streetview down the road there's bike painted on the road near Eastcott Hill and at the end of that stretch there's an END painted on the road.  I don't see any more bikes painted on the road so it's safe to assume that it's not a cycle path. 

Offline Mart

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5249
  • Where's my cow?
Re: Is it or isn't it? - Crombey Street Cycle Lane..... or not
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 07:09:15 PM »
I'd say I'm allowed to plough through cyclists in that zone, with due deference to the kerbs.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
Re: Is it or isn't it? - Crombey Street Cycle Lane..... or not
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2014, 09:54:34 PM »

Quote
"I'd say I'm allowed to plough through cyclists in that zone, with due deference to the kerbs".

...said the UK shuttle van driver  ;D

Offline Phil Chitty

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 250
  • Gender: Male
  • The user formerly ph1lc
Re: Is it or isn't it? - Crombey Street Cycle Lane..... or not
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 10:11:59 AM »
Looking at this and the other recent thread, you are of course absolutely right Geoff. Having said that, once you focus on the problem any idiot can see that.

Between us on here I'm sure we can prove our real worth and come up with a workable solution to this potentially fatal problem

Offline Simon

  • Jnr. Jedi
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2274
    • Swindon Climate Action Network
Re: Is it or isn't it? - Crombey Street Cycle Lane..... or not
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2014, 11:14:50 AM »
I don't know whether it is or isn't a cycle route/lane, but from a practical point of view, it's worse than useless. I think it's actually safer for a cyclist to stay firmly in the middle of the road than to repeatedly leave and re-enter the motorised traffic flow each time the cycle lane stops and starts.

I don't think the people who direct the painting of lines on the ground talk to the people who make the cycle route map. I posted about 18 months ago about the removal of the cycle lane on Curtis Street to make way for more parking spaces, a change which now appears to be permanent, however the white lines on Canal Walk near Cambira Bridge which direct cyclists off Canal Walk and towards the cycle lane which no longer exists on Curtis Street, appear to have been recently repainted, contrary to the cycle route map which says that the cycle route follows Canal Walk all the way to Farnsby Street.
We are all in this together, but some of us are more in it than others (with apologies to George Orwell)

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
Re: Is it or isn't it? - Crombey Street Cycle Lane..... or not
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2014, 12:13:04 PM »
 
I hadn't seen your 2013 post before today Simon (probably because my cycling-genes were dormant from 1982 to June 2013) although I have since noticed many oddities with Swindons cycle lanes & paths.

I'm thinking that it might be sensible to put all the 'cycling infrastructure' topics into one place, if so should that be in the Leisure: Walking, Running, Cycling, Riding, Flying & Driving* or Transport forums?

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
Re: Is it or isn't it? - Crombey Street Cycle Lane..... or not
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2014, 12:45:49 PM »
I don't know whether it is or isn't a cycle route/lane, but from a practical point of view, it's worse than useless. I think it's actually safer for a cyclist to stay firmly in the middle of the road than to repeatedly leave and re-enter the motorised traffic flow each time the cycle lane stops and starts.

I don't think the people who direct the painting of lines on the ground talk to the people who make the cycle route map. I posted about 18 months ago about the removal of the cycle lane on Curtis Street to make way for more parking spaces, a change which now appears to be permanent, however the white lines on Canal Walk near Cambira Bridge which direct cyclists off Canal Walk and towards the cycle lane which no longer exists on Curtis Street, appear to have been recently repainted, contrary to the cycle route map which says that the cycle route follows Canal Walk all the way to Farnsby Street.


I think incoherent line painting on roads leads to confusion for all users of the road and therefore to the most vulnerable users of the road being placed at greater risk.  Put stressed/distracted/reckless/incompetent or just not-very-good drivers into a road-environment which originally had 'traffic calming' measures and a dedicated cycle lane installed, but has since had on-street parking bays marked out over the cycle lane and new lines with different meanings/purposes painted over the still-visible (but possibly meaningless) original cycle lane markings, and a 'traffic-calmed' one-way street actually becomes something of a gauntlet to navigate, with the very real potential for the gauntlet to turn into a meat grinder.

What I deliberately hadn't yet mentioned is that the driver of the 7.5t UK shuttle wagon had already forced Tig into the parking bays just past the Deacon Street junction.  Had there been more cars parked in the parking bays I'm fairly sure a collision was likely.  I don't think the driver was driving dangerously or aggressively, (possibly a bit lacking in anticipation & forward planning), but I understand that very few drivers are capable of driving at a 100% level of conscious competence for even part of the time, let alone when it's really needed, but I do think presenting road users with incoherent information, (ambiguous signage, confusing/jumbled lines or road furniture), in a busy vehicular environment causes a significant number of drivers to cease 'trying their best, and adopt a 'point, press the pedal & pray' style of vehicle control/navigation.

I tend to think that the reason cyclists aren't being regularly flattened on Crombey Street is quite simple - I think many cyclists simply try to avoid it.  This would explain why I regularly see cyclists riding against the traffic flow on Commercial Road, both on the footways and, (yes, honestly), on the road itself.   I also think this is another contributing factor to people cycling through our 'No Cycling' town centre.

BTW:  There's another significant flaw (imo) with the design of the 'shared space' at Regents - this time with the new layout of Crombey Street directly outside Morrisons.  This morning at 05.00 I was pushed into the stone-island which separates the bus stop(?) from the reduced-width single carriageway.  Once again, I don't think the vehicle was being driven badly or aggressively, but I don't think the 'shared space' environment influenced the driver in the way intended/claimed by councillors and developers.  I'll explain/explore this in more depth with some supporting video at a future point. 
 

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
Re: Is it or isn't it? - Crombey Street Cycle Lane..... or not
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2014, 01:04:01 PM »
Looking at this and the other recent thread, you are of course absolutely right Geoff. Having said that, once you focus on the problem any idiot can see that.

Between us on here I'm sure we can prove our real worth and come up with a workable solution to this potentially fatal problem

I think you're absolutely right Phil, we can come up with a workable, sensible solution, but whether anyone in the collective political idiocracy of local government would listen, learn and adopt is another matter :)

Offline Phil Chitty

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 250
  • Gender: Male
  • The user formerly ph1lc
Re: Is it or isn't it? - Crombey Street Cycle Lane..... or not
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 09:50:23 PM »
Granted Geoff, our Local clown school has an appalling record in listening to good ideas and common sense but that just adds to the challenge. Let's make them see sense.