Author Topic: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?  (Read 26443 times)

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Offline Muggins

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2014, 03:32:41 PM »
With all those percentages/ charges/ numbers it's no wonder SBC can't get it right.

The fewer that put bins or bags out the more difficult it will be to collect, at 15% I would think they will have to maybe one per street in Swindon if that. So a lot of mileage will be driving past those that don't contribute and I'm sure if those who do pay their extra cash, don't get their bins emptied they will complain vociferiously. I predict a management nightmare. Although it will be an elite group that will be complaining. And we know how good SBC (or whatever contractor it is) are at the management part.

As the green waste collection was never from 100% of the homes in Swindon, it could be the biggest mess ever in more ways than one.

Let's hope the bio-mass thing doesn't go ahead at Cheney Manor, I predict longer queues once again.

They should have thought more carefully about providing this service in the first place, they should think again about WHY they did provide it in the first place  and should have thought again and more about their exit strategy.   
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2014, 09:10:54 PM »
Coun Small did ask at the meeting, if the collections did turn out to be one or two a street, what the men would do in the afternoons!, the reply was on the terms of 'we will have to wait and see how it goes'!!...

Offline Muggins

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2014, 09:12:00 AM »
Coun Small did ask at the meeting, if the collections did turn out to be one or two a street, what the men would do in the afternoons!, the reply was on the terms of 'we will have to wait and see how it goes'!!...

Ah, the Art of Good Management (SBC style).  "Wait and see"
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline the gorgon

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2014, 06:15:29 PM »
Coun Small did ask at the meeting, if the collections did turn out to be one or two a street, what the men would do in the afternoons!, the reply was on the terms of 'we will have to wait and see how it goes'!!...

Clear up all the fly tipped garden waste?

Offline Muggins

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2014, 08:47:27 AM »
Coun Small did ask at the meeting, if the collections did turn out to be one or two a street, what the men would do in the afternoons!, the reply was on the terms of 'we will have to wait and see how it goes'!!...

Clear up all the fly tipped garden waste?

Unfortunately you could be right about the flytipping Gorg, but wrong about SBC picking it up. :-\

We had a bit of a family get together last evening and (nothing to do with me) this subject came up. I heard a good plan that as many of the new estates are built on the principal of 4/5 houses on one driveway, that the houses could club together and share one bin.   Good idea aye?  But will it pay the council?

Another said blow the bin, we're having a compost bin, but they only re-cycle grass cuttings, so that one was easy - don't pick up the cuttings, it won't harm the lawn so long as its not left long between mowings.

Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2014, 06:02:18 PM »
A new leaflet has been posted through the doors of swindon residents extolling the benefits of the Recycling and Green Waste Collection.

First thing to say is that the 'fib' that this will save "in excess of £1million a year" is being bandied about as if it was a fact whereas it most certainly is not.

It is absolutely dependant on a number of assumptions one of which has already been 'shot down in flames'.

The first assumption is that 20% of the 83,000 homes in Swindon will voluntarily sign up to the Green Waste scheme, given that it is £40 per annum that take up is still pretty much 'up in the air'

The second assumption is that SCS/SBC will dispose of 8 'redundant vehicles' - but officers have already said this cannot be counted in the 2014/15 figures so a saving of £329k will not be realised.

Alongside this assumption we should consider what the disposal represents - it is a one off saving not an annual saving. You can't sell the 8 vehicles year on year. The council suggests in its report that it costs £45k per year to fund a single vehicle and a ten year old vehicle is costing £27k per year to fund.

The relevance of these figures is quite simple - the actual 2014/15 savings on the recycling change will be £105k (and that's before one asks why SBC feels it needs to pay SCS additional income of £109k)

The potential savings on the Green Waste collection do appear top be closer to £720k based on the cost of the bins £261k being paid out of another budget (clever and creative accounting rules the day)

What is amazing is that SCS received £850k (it actually cost SCS £758k) to collect Green Waste. According to SBC the actual cost of doing 15% of the homes was going to cost £791k and 20% of all homes will cost £702k - wow

So in SBC speak £825k is "in excess of a £1million" - mmm


Offline Spunkymonkey

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2014, 09:16:05 PM »
I would prefer it if they kept the green waste collections and dropped the orange bins.

I am quite happy to take my clean bottles, cans and paper to the recycling area at Tesco when I do the weekly shop. I am going there anyway, so no additional mileage.

I am less happy about driving smelly green bags to the tip. They will be going in to the black wheelie bin I'm afraid.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2014, 09:20:52 AM »
We'd be the opposite Spunky, I would rather they kept the Orange bin, nearly everyone uses them and if they dropped that people would either put it in their landfill bin, or it would mean all that more traffic, plus we personally have enough trouble humping shopping bags, without doing that with the orange bins as well.

The composting though can be done in the garden, most people have enough garden to do that, and them that don't, don't produce the arisings to make it worth it anyway.  I would rather turn to the compost bin, the shredder, *the very therapeutic sitting and cutting it up into small pieces, or just a heap before bagging it or taking it down the tip.

*This is the sitting down in a comfortable corner of the garden, with loppers, secateurs and a quiet job too.



Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline OTTed

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2014, 09:57:14 AM »
Muggins

a practical question on gardening.
[It may shift my disgust at this new service from the practical pain it will cause me, towards the typical political bullying used to enact the change]

I compost. Indeed despite an 80ft English country garden, I binge garden and I put out may be 3 sets of 6-8 bags per year [shared with neighbours they are always collected]
Why the green waste?

These are the things that I cannot/will not put on to my compost heap because they render the compost unusuable on the garden:
- bind weed/withwind you know the strangle weed that is endemic here
- seed heads of dandelion etc
- woody stems from shrubs
- cuttings from trees*
- large quantities of succulent sedums [they create a smelly silage not compost]

OK am I doing anything wrong as a gardener?

*[I have no chimney, I have a small recreational firepit, I desist from bonfires because neighbours complain]

P.S. I create so much compost from this and food waste. It is really good stuff. But my 110 year old garden does not need it.
additional question what the !!!??? am I supposed to do with this surfeit of black gold which I can't even give away.

P.P.S. I am a middle aged man with the time, skills, inclination to do all this, what should the average 30 year old new house-holder be expected to achieve?

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2014, 11:26:23 AM »
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that no more capacity in terms of wagons etc., will be required until they hit 45% take up so if they only have a 15% take up what will happen to the staff and equipment?  Surely there are costs that need to be explored and examined here? There was much discussion around this subject but as with most SBC Scrutiny meetings it was the usual amount of hot air that achieved little.

Is it about time we changed the name of the Scrutiny Committee to the Ratification Committee?

After all that is all they do!!

Getting back to the subject in hand it is my belief this is ill conceived not thought through properly and non of the possible consequences considered.  It could well end up costing more money than they ever hoped to save and as usual they will get away with it and the Council Tax Payer will end up with the bill!!

and of course as the £40 charge is new it is in effect a Council Tax increase by stealth as it replaces something that was already done without cost.
All my posts are my own opinion and do not represent any political organization or group

Offline Muggins

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2014, 02:19:25 PM »
Muggins

a practical question on gardening.
[It may shift my disgust at this new service from the practical pain it will cause me, towards the typical political bullying used to enact the change]

I compost. Indeed despite an 80ft English country garden, I binge garden and I put out may be 3 sets of 6-8 bags per year [shared with neighbours they are always collected]
Why the green waste?

These are the things that I cannot/will not put on to my compost heap because they render the compost unusuable on the garden:
- bind weed/withwind you know the strangle weed that is endemic here
- seed heads of dandelion etc
- woody stems from shrubs
- cuttings from trees*
- large quantities of succulent sedums [they create a smelly silage not compost]

OK am I doing anything wrong as a gardener?

*[I have no chimney, I have a small recreational firepit, I desist from bonfires because neighbours complain]

P.S. I create so much compost from this and food waste. It is really good stuff. But my 110 year old garden does not need it.
additional question what the !!!??? am I supposed to do with this surfeit of black gold which I can't even give away.

P.P.S. I am a middle aged man with the time, skills, inclination to do all this, what should the average 30 year old new house-holder be expected to achieve?

I have the same problems and indeed the same things you don't compost.  However keen a gardener I like to think I am, I don't spend much time out there these days,  so there is no extra planting of veggies etc.  and no grass to be cut.   I do compost as much as I can eith veggie waste, but rarely use the resulted mulch days, but in about two years, I haven't got above the top of the compost bin, because it rots effectively.    The larger shubbery waste, is usually cut, set to one side and then shredded when it's dry enough and not at a time to annoy the neighbours too much.  I hardly used it at all last year, because I could sit and cut it up into management bits and put it in the green bags. If I can't do that without paying for a bin I won't bother. so it will have to be done often enough for small loads to go down the tip.  Even shredding can give to much product to use.  But then if all else fails, I can take I to the Orchard. 

Most of the new developments - and I suspect it's they that find the collection a boon, have small gardens, and I bet most of what goes in their bags is grass.  I berated my son-in-law about his postage stamp grass cuttings going anywhere expect back on top of the lawn he just cut. He is cleverer than me so gave me an answer he thought I deserved and had everyone else laughing, something like "What is this concept of mowing a lawn weekly?" And what am I going to do with that Californian lilac I have to cut back?  My advise to that was cut the thing down from 2 inches about the ground and  stick it in the back of the car and take it down the tip. which is what we were doing before they brought in the free collection.

Compost of just grass cuttings or any other one thing is as you said likely to give you a soggy black messy slime.

Of course every one has different needs, whether that's size of garden, how keen a gardener and age of gardener and transport.

My annoyance is that a wise council would have figured they wouldn't keep it up for long, so they have now raised an expectation of a free service and we all have to go back to doing what we did a short time ago. Grrr.

Having said that, I got rid of a really huge overgrown and dead clematis (Montana Rubens) and an ivy which covered the fencing at the back and a fair old amount of blessed bramble during that time.  The fruitless Pear Tree is for it this year, so I shall have to chat up a friend, it won't go in the back of the Mugginsmobile.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline OTTed

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2014, 02:42:08 PM »
I wonder if anyone else wishes to go into business with me.

Buy 5 or 10 decrepit Volvo 850/950/70 estates

create a car club for gardeners where one can book a rental in half day slots to clear your garden to the tip.

£10 a rental would be 4 clearances a year without having to indulge SBC and their crazy divisive scheme and without another un-wheely ;-0 lump of plastic in the garden

could do the clearance for them for a price.

now need a business plan, land to park cars*, and a programmer to write the booking engine.

*I suppose I could park them in the Croft's £300k layby ;-)

Offline Muggins

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2014, 03:36:03 PM »
There was an idea to create community composting schemes at one time, unworkable of course, because some don't understand that you can't dump old plastic bags and furniture into the compost bin.  Also you would still need a vehicle to get to them and who would want to live next to one thus polluted.

What effect will this have on Leaves I wonder, who were, as far as I could see was doing a stirling job reselling it as soil improver?

As the idea of recycling is about environmental issue, including car miles etc. and with all the new development going in this should be part of the planning process for them.

How about trailer hire?  Much easier to run than extra vehicles. Or maybe this is good project for the Time-banks. 
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2014, 05:49:56 PM »
I hope you are saying this tongue in cheek OTT?

because they would soon clock you at the tip and start demanding commercial tipping fees, wouldn't they?

You know SBC, is this anything to make a buck so they can fund more Croft Schools?   :froggy:
All my posts are my own opinion and do not represent any political organization or group

Offline OTTed

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2014, 05:51:23 PM »
sorry to get practical

trailers mean tow bars. with the prevalence of leasing these days, cars rarely have tow bars and, most of us wouldn't want to use them.

most people would drive a shed of a car - even if for the experience.   

Offline OTTed

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2014, 05:53:27 PM »
hehe

was tongue in cheek, however I feel even the BS may struggle with a self drive solution, same car but different driver, different origin of the rubbish

actually Muggs, another question mark on a trailer

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2014, 06:21:09 PM »
ottted, if your compost is compost and is able to go in the back of my car, ill have it for my allotment..
K..

Offline Spunkymonkey

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2014, 08:13:31 PM »
We'd be the opposite Spunky, I would rather they kept the Orange bin, nearly everyone uses them and if they dropped that people would either put it in their landfill bin, or it would mean all that more traffic, plus we personally have enough trouble humping shopping bags, without doing that with the orange bins as well.

It works well for me.

Take the clean recycling to Tesco in plastic boxes (my own not the council ones). Empty the recycling. Do the shopping and put the bags in to the plastic boxes to stop it all rolling about on the way home. Carry shopping into the house in the plastic boxes with no torn bags or spillages.

I get to empty the recycling at my convenience rather than on a prescribed day. It also means that when I come home in the dark and wet, I don't have to wander down the street looking for a wet soggy box and lid that have blown down the road.

Offline OTTed

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  • Colin Doubleday from Old Town Swindon
Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2014, 08:15:01 PM »
Just replanted the raspberries, so a few months of rotting to go, but I will remember you in future.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Green Waste Bins - was this really a consultation?
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2014, 09:01:29 AM »
We'd be the opposite Spunky, I would rather they kept the Orange bin, nearly everyone uses them and if they dropped that people would either put it in their landfill bin, or it would mean all that more traffic, plus we personally have enough trouble humping shopping bags, without doing that with the orange bins as well.

It works well for me.

Take the clean recycling to Tesco in plastic boxes (my own not the council ones). Empty the recycling. Do the shopping and put the bags in to the plastic boxes to stop it all rolling about on the way home. Carry shopping into the house in the plastic boxes with no torn bags or spillages.

I get to empty the recycling at my convenience rather than on a prescribed day. It also means that when I come home in the dark and wet, I don't have to wander down the street looking for a wet soggy box and lid that have blown down the road.


Being older and at present unfit - I find that dragging the bin through the house and up the two steps at the front  is enough for me, then a very nice bin man picks it up, throws it in his lorry, and we go and retrieve the said bin, it's easier to get back through for being the lighter.  We only ever put the paper box out fortnightly and the can and bottle bin, about every maybe 6 weeks?

Much easier for us than getting it into the boot and out again the other end, and over the last few weeks that would have been in appalling weather too.

So I'm grateful for the service as is nearly every house in our road, who took to recycling with enthusiasm.   
In fact all of Penhill seemed to take to it with a will, if a walk around on bin Day (Tuesday) is anything to go by. I remember the day all the bins were delivered, it was like Christmas.

And whilst Oliver is warding off complaints from Haydon Wick about the Christmas collection, we were very happy with them.  As it happens the Tuesday collection were not affected this year.   

Added to that we don't have to stand or sit in any queues. 
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)