Author Topic: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan  (Read 14595 times)

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Offline Alex

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2014, 07:20:19 PM »
I wrote an article on stress some 8 years ago- then being alive was 44% more stressful than it had been 30 years ago- I would assume that it is now significantly more stressful. Expectations and options conflict hugely. Young people are committing suicide at an alarming rate and depression is not being diagnosed in early teens even though it is more prevalent. Today I saw this which I think is brilliant and describes what it is like- (especially number 19)  which describes why I love working in this field.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/comics-that-capture-the-frustrations-of-depression

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2014, 07:23:49 PM »
Good stuff!

.... and here's another life-affirming story about how intervention can work...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25959260

Quote
A video blogger who was stopped by a stranger from jumping into the River Thames has been reunited with the man who saved him six years ago.

Jonny Benjamin, 26, was on Waterloo Bridge in January 2008 after being diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder when Neil Laybourn intervened.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Spunkymonkey

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2014, 07:52:32 PM »
There are a couple of really good books called 'Feeling Good - The New Mood Therapy' and 'The Feeling Good Handbook' by David D. Burns.

Burns was a student of Aaron T. Beck who developed Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

I went through a period of mild depression a few years ago and was prescribed anti-depressants, but I can honestly say that this book was of much more use than the drugs.

It is a long time since I read it, but I remember a chapter on recognising 'cognitive distortions'. People suffering with depression tend to see the world in an exaggerated way where everything is black or white. One example in the book describes an overweight person who is badly affected by a stranger in the street shouting 'hey, fatty'. The person reacts by thinking 'why is everyone so horrible to me?', when a better question would be 'why are some people so horrible?'.

The book recognises several (about 8) types of cognitive distortion. Recognising which ones you are susceptible to is the first step towards reversing the downward spiral.

I am oversimplifying the process but it worked for me.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2014, 08:20:51 AM »
Thanks Spunky, Those are now on my amazon wish list - Mothers Day is coming up!

Not that I get 'depressed', not for long anyway, but I do get anxious.  And if I leave them lying around, others might read them too.

Wonder if we can get them at our local Library?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Alex

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2014, 10:54:57 AM »
Thanks Spunky, Those are now on my amazon wish list - Mothers Day is coming up!

Not that I get 'depressed', not for long anyway, but I do get anxious.  And if I leave them lying around, others might read them too.

Wonder if we can get them at our local Library?

You should be able to get them as there has been an initiative called something like  "Books on Prescription"  to make them (and others which are equally as helpful) available to combat the issue. They have their own stand in the central library, near the door.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2014, 11:36:36 AM »
I'll be asking at our own Library, Alex.  Goodness knows, enough people here will need them.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2014, 05:05:57 PM »
A mere three months later and...

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/11012692.UPDATE__Teenager_dies_after_Wyvern_car_park_fall/?ref=var_0

Quote
POLICE have confirmed that the male who died after falling from the roof of the Wyvern car park on Thursday night was 17 years old.

Emergency services were called to the scene at 9.30pm and attempted to treat the man. However, because of the injuries sustained he died a short time later.

Several of the nearby roads were closed as a cordon was put up around the area for a short time while enquiries into the circumstances of the incident were carried out.

The death is not being treated as suspicious.


 :(

And yet, what did I say as recently as November...?

Quote
The Wyvern Theatre car park has been a hotspot for falls and suicides over the last 10 years, and, while it is due for closure by Christmas, Toby is concerned about similar locations in the town centre.


Quote
“My concern is that car park already has a reputation. I am worried about even drawing attention to the issue, but it seems people who are vulnerable already know about the location.

“Obviously, if someone is determined to harm themselves, you can’t stop them, but there are people at a crisis point and may make a decision on the spur of the moment.

“There are some steps we can take to make that less likely.”


I fear my prophetic words have come to pass even sooner than I feared - though frankly, any normal person would hardly have needed to be Nostradamus to have worked out the inevitable consequences of SBCs handwashing of any responsibility to take effective action...

Quote
A council spokesman said: “All of our patrolling car park staff are trained to be vigilant of vulnerable people in our multi-storey car parks and will respond accordingly.

“We have put up posters in our car parks urging distressed or depressed people to contact Swindon Samaritans.” The Council’s Cabinet also recently approved a car park strategy which will see the closure of some of our older car parks.

“Our modern car parks, such as the almost completed Whalebridge car park, have larger barriers on their rooftops to minimise incidents.”


... but in the meantime, SBC seems perfectly happy to allow this continuing harvest of vulnerable people to continue, just so long as it doesn't involve taking any meaningful steps or spending any money. The car park remains open and with minimal to meaningless barriers, there is next to nothing to stop this happening YET AGAIN.

When I spoke to the journalist from the Adver, he had done some background research which showed that there had been a fatality or serious injury at the car park involving jumpers pretty much every year since it was built.

COUNCIL - PULL YOUR COLLECTIVE FINGERS OUT AND ACT NOW.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 05:37:40 PM by Tobes »
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2014, 06:03:52 PM »
Can anyone help me by identifying which individual 'at the top of the tree' within SBC bares ultimate responsibility for the car park?
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline jennyb

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2014, 06:52:01 PM »
Can anyone help me by identifying which individual 'at the top of the tree' within SBC bares ultimate responsibility for the car park?

Ultimately it is Cllr David Renard as Leader.

Specifically , as this all comes under the Town Centre Regeneration isn't it Clllr Gary Perkins?


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It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2014, 07:01:09 PM »
So, I shall put it as baldly as this.

It would seem that no new safety measures (aprt from the rumoured Samaritans posters which I missed when I was up there in November) have been put in place since the car park was constructed 30 odd years ago.

Thats despite, according to the journalist at the Adver, there having been a series of incidents and a list of deaths/serious injuries at the same location pretty much year on year, ever since.

When I raised the issue in November, 'somebody' apparently told the Adver that the car park would be closed by Christmas. No further safety measures were taken.

ITS FEBRUARY AND THE CAR PARK IS STILL OPEN

And now yet another vulnerable person has died.

Someone in a position of authority and responsibility risks the accusation of having blood on their hands, in my view. Someone needs to take responsibility for preventing this from happening AGAIN.

And they need to do it NOW.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2014, 12:17:48 PM »
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/11013378.Boy__17__dies_after_fall_from_car_park/?ref=var_0

Quote
FLOWERS have been laid at the scene where a 17-year-old boy died on Thursday night after falling from the top of the Wyvern Car Park.

Police officers and ambulance crews were called to the scene at 9.30pm after reports of the incident.

Attempts were made to treat the teenager but he died at the scene after which his body was taken to the Great Western Hospital.

Several roads were cordoned off for a short period following the death, which police are not treating as suspicious.

A spokesman for Wiltshire Air Ambulance said: “We received a call to the Wyvern car park at 9.36pm on Thursday after reports of a male falling from 30 metres.


“The Wiltshire Air Ambulance Rapid Support Team attended the scene but unfortunately there was nothing we could do.”

Throughout the day yesterday tributes were left at the scene, above, carrying messages of condolence.

One read: “I love you with all my heart. My first and last love.” Another said: “The son we never had! Always in our heart.”

It is the latest in a series of deaths from the roof of the multi-storey car park, which is due for demolition later this year as part of the town centre regeneration.

A council spokesman said: “We take the safety of vulnerable people extremely seriously and our patrolling car park staff are trained to be vigilant of any distressed people in our multi-storey car parks.


Bullshit

Absolute bullshit.

If the number of people who have died at this site were middle class people dying at an accident black-spot on a road, there is absolutely NO DOUBT what-so-ever that action would have been taken. And much more expensive action at that.

How many car park staff are on duty at any time? - in November, I didn't see ANY, despite the situation occurring over at least half an hour.

How many car park staff are on duty at 9.30 at night?

Where are these gioddamn Samaritans posters? I didn't notice any in November - and what an utter abrogation of care to think that a dog-eared poster is better protection than a proper barrier anyway.

I am furious and disgusted in equal measure.

How many more people have to die before the council takes action?
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2014, 12:32:24 PM »
they were quick enough to shut down the carfax st carpark so why not the wyvern.....

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2014, 12:52:11 PM »
2002 - http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/11013378.Boy__17__dies_after_fall_from_car_park/?ref=var_0

Quote
Plunge man named

THE man who fell to his death from the roof of the Wyvern Theatre car park was today named as Neil Young.
The 31-year-old had been undergoing treatment at Sandalwood Court Psychiatric Hospital in Swindon.
He lived at Davis House, Turl Street, in central Swindon. Mr Young fell on to Islington Street, opposite Swindon Magistrates Court, at 6pm on Saturday.

Police are treating his death as suicide.


2013
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10334914.Homeless_Swindon_woman_who_died_after_roof_fall_is_named/?ref=arc

Quote
THE woman who fell to her death from the Wyvern Theatre car park has been named locally as Melissa Castle.
Sources told the Swindon Advertiser that the 28-year-old had been homeless for many years.
Her final moments this morning were watched helplessly by staff at the Wyvern Theatre and council workers in a nearby building.

Melissa had been a client of local homelessness charity Threshold Housing Link, and chief executive Cher Sawyer said: “It was with great sadness that we learnt of Melissa’s death.


2014
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/11013378.Boy__17__dies_after_fall_from_car_park/?ref=var_0
Quote
FLOWERS have been laid at the scene where a 17-year-old boy died on Thursday night after falling from the top of the Wyvern Car Park.
Police officers and ambulance crews were called to the scene at 9.30pm after reports of the incident.
Attempts were made to treat the teenager but he died at the scene after which his body was taken to the Great Western Hospital.


... These are the fatalities I've been able to discover from a quick Google search - though I am lead to believe there are more from pre-internet days.

The above list also does not also record the serious injuries - or the incidents in which members of the public or emergency services managed to talk people down.

If anyone is able to help by adding any other incidents to this thread, I would be grateful. As no one at SBC seems motivated to do anything off of their own back, I'm hoping public shame might convince them otherwise.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Simon

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2014, 01:49:02 PM »
One small observation from me.

A few years ago, around the time that the old police station was being demolished, I was on the top storey of the car park on top of Debenhams when I was approached by someone, probably a car park attendant, who was concerned that I was about to jump (which I wasn't, I was there to take some photos of the police station and the surrounding area). Having reassured him of my reason for being there, he admonished me in future to let the attendants know if I intended to do the same and then he left me to get on with my photos.

Maybe things have changed since then?
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Offline Muggins

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2014, 01:55:08 PM »
Yes, they've sacked the car park attendant?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline the gorgon

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2014, 02:44:56 PM »
Probably, if the shopmobilty place is still in the wyvern then there might actually be someone on site.  Otherwise chances are it'll be just a van that comes around to pick-up money from the ticket machine and/or check that people have paid and displayed.

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2014, 12:25:48 PM »
Not all in chronological order, and some from other car parks - but part of some ongoing research to try and get an idea of the scale of this problem... more to come (its actually a difficult area to research - some of these incidents aren't clearly reported as suicides until the coroners report - and these aren't always picked up by the media...)

2010 (from the Brunel West car park)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-10767750

Quote
An author discharged himself from hospital after an overdose, then leapt to his death, an inquest heard.
Luke Bitmead, 34, who lived in Oxford, left Great Western Hospital in Swindon in his pyjamas in October 2006.
Mr Bitmead, author of White Summer and Heading South, later jumped from a multi-storey car park.


2003 (from the Brunel Car Park)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1441975/Paedophile-victim-jumps-to-her-death.html

Quote
A woman jumped to her death from the top of a 60ft multi storey car park because she feared the imminent release of a jailed paedophile who had abused her as a child, her husband said yesterday.
Leanne White, 29, was one of 13 girls abused by George Davison, now 63, who has served more than half his 15-year sentence for rape and indecent assault, and could be released next year.


2012 (From the Wyvern / Fleming Way car park)

Quote
Wiltshire Police have begun an investigation after a man fell to his death from the fourth floor of a multi storey car park in Swindon. Officers were called just after midday today  to the Fleming Way car park opposite Swindon Crown Court and the Menzies Hotel.
Motorists were urged to avoid Islington Street and Fleming Way until 2pm while the investigation went on at the scene.


2008 (From the college street car park)

Quote
“He felt low as he hadn’t found a job. He was the bread winner and he didn’t feel comfortable claiming state allowances. “He started to become agitated, which was so out of character for him.”

Mrs Chahal even tried to bring an appointment forward with the consultant psychologist from May 30, as she was concerned her husband wasn’t getting better, but it couldn’t be arranged as Dr Sod was away from work that day. Her husband then walked into town to pay bills and made his way to the multi-storey car park in College Street. The inquest at Trowbridge Town Hall heard that CCTV captured Mr Chahal making his way to the top level at about 9.30am. PC Dave Johnson of Swindon police was called to the scene and found Mr Chahal laying on his back at the bottom of the car park, still conscience and breathing.


I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2014, 10:16:50 AM »
I've tried again... but no doubt my words will fall on ears deaf to the value of life whilst alive to the riffle of folding money.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/11022439.Call_for____killer____car_park_to_be_secured/?ref=mr

According to the council's own policy, there appears to be no reason why the Wyvern multi-story car park is still open. Even if some capacity is still required in the interim, the top deck or even two decks could be closed. I regularly see that car park - and I've never seen more than half a dozen cars parked on the top deck at any time. Capacity is surely not an issue.

IF they plan on keeping the car park open for the foreseable future (note, no closing date was supplied by then - and one has to ask why?) - then they are morally beholden after two deaths and one near attempt within a mere six months, to put up some proper barriers.

Part of our council's very reason for existence is to provide care for Swindons most vulnerable people. That it is providing such a risk to their safety in one of its own municipally owned properties is therefore deeply troubling.

I repeat, these incidents are as numerous as they are predictable. The reason the wyvern car park is being used to do this by desperate people is equally obvious and predictable.

Sadly, without wishing it, I can tell SBC here and now that another death is almost a sad inevitability.

They cannot wash their hands of that responsibility. I hope they act accordingly.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2014, 08:33:00 AM »
This isn't a cheeky swipe but a genuine question.

Remember when I said -

Quote
“The response to events like this is often to shrug their shoulders, but there is now a whole litany of these incidents, not only in this car park but around the town. “I have counted up at least four fatalities from the Wyvern car park. Putting it in context, if there had been a stretch of road which had seen four deaths, money would have been spent to change the layout of that road.”

?

Well, read the following from today's Adver, regarding the second car accident (non fatal, note) on Curtis Street:

Quote
COUN Bob Wright is urging Swindon Council to take action to try and prevent future crashes at a town centre accident hot spot. Last weekend a car smashed into the doorstep of a home in Curtis Street after misjudging the road’s junction with Crombey Street. It is the second car in three months to do so. But Coun Wright says the problem is not with the junction itself but with an unusual number of accidents related to drink-driving around the area. He says the council is in the process of discussing what can be done to minmise the number of accidents along the road.

Good on you Bob.

But what about some action to prevent the litany of needless deaths made possible by the non existent safety measures at the Wyvern car park?

Whats more important in the scale of things - someone's garden wall, or the life of another person?

 :(

Come on Bob, you're one of the better councillors. Would you be prepared to ask this question of SBC for me?
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2014, 06:15:39 PM »
Tobes, check your PM inbox :)

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