Author Topic: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan  (Read 14312 times)

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Offline Richard Symonds

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Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« on: November 02, 2013, 09:04:29 PM »
In the Adver today.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10780850.Call_to_cut_suicide_risk/

and in deference to his wishes I will not be cutting and pasting this one!!


All my posts are my own opinion and do not represent any political organization or group

Online Terry Reynolds

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2013, 09:23:21 PM »
If that was our Tobes, can I add a very well done... did you spot if she was reading the mail... :clap:
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 10:04:17 PM by kohima »

Offline jennyb

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2013, 09:29:34 PM »
A good deed well done .
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Outoftowner

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2013, 09:57:33 PM »
Well handled Tobes!
What's it all about?

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2013, 09:59:05 PM »
Front rumning nominee for the.'Swindon Is Proud Of You Award' I shouldn't wonder :clap:

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Offline carole bent

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2013, 10:02:12 PM »
An excellent intervention by Tobes.

Sad to think what situation she was in to do this, but how lucky for her that Tobes was the person to help - handled brilliantly.





Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 10:43:31 AM »
Thank you all for your kind words. I was just fortunate to be in the right place and at the right time - and already on a hair-trigger because I'd been working in the office the day the last person to commit suicide had jumped. I remember the last time wishing I'd seen what was happening so that I could try and do something. All I did was exactly what I'm sure most TS contributors would have done.

The whole thing left me quite shaken up - and angry. It turns out that there has been, on average, a serious incident at that car park every year pretty much since the day it was built, 30+ years ago. Not only is the parapet ridiculously low, there's even an armco barrier right in front of it which makes stepping up incredibly easy.

As I said in the article, its obvious that its impossible to stop anyone who is determined to kill themselves. But from what I understand about suicide, acting on the urge can done in the heat of the moment. If someone has had a personal crisis or is temporarily vulnerable through drink or drugs, places like the car park provide a terrible temptation which can be acted upon then and there. Bear in mind that this car park is right next to the courts - and it is also very close to a number of cheap bars. The combination is frankly dangerous.

Speaking with the journalist who wrote the story, it also became apparent that the wyvern car park is not the only hot spot. Lots of the older car parks remain with out barriers - the Brunel being a particular example which has seen a number of suicides over the years.

For the council to dodge a very easy and obvious civic duty to make these car parks safer makes me very disillusioned. The council will spend thousands of pounds ensuring that it avoid theoretical health and safety risks, but according to the comments in the article, appears perfectly happy to turn a blind eye to something long since proven and with an ever growing death-toll as evidence. Having a few dog-eared Samaritans posters and the wardens vaguely briefed is not good enough as a response, when the solution is so easy and so relatively inexpensive.

Of course, a cynic might be tempted to wonder that if many of the the victims of suicide weren't poor and vulnerable people, and ordinary middle class voters, more effective action would have been taken.

Its time to bust the taboo about suicide - it is happening within our community all the time. Some of you reading this may have been effected by it personally and will understand. I don't think it ought to be something either shrugged off or brushed under the carpet any more. I want to urge councillors to ensure that barriers are put up on the existing older car parks - and to ensure that all of the new ones are built with preventing suicide in mind. If any of you could mention this to your ward councillors or any of the local politicians you encounter, I'd be incredibly grateful.

http://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help-you
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2013, 10:56:38 AM »
I'd also like to extend my thanks to the other two chaps who came to help whilst I was up there. I don't doubt that had I not been first on the scene, they would have done as I did. I was especially touched by their humanity - especially the guy who gave her a necklace because he wanted her to have something nice. The article doesn't mention either of them and I'd like their efforts to be recognised properly too.

I'd also like to say to the girl, in case she reads this, that however bad things might get, remember: three total strangers wanted to try and help. What we spoke about up there is between you and me - but you really aren't alone in the world. If ever you want someone to talk to, you can contact me by sending a private message here.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Rochelle

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 02:57:45 PM »
Proud to know you Tobes x. P.s will do my ward councillor duty.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2013, 05:21:29 PM »
Blimey, Tobes, well done - and the other two!
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2013, 07:28:34 PM »
Hat off to Tobes.

Offline Alex

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2013, 09:24:31 PM »
Well done Tobes- you did a good thing. x

Offline DavidPayne

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2013, 03:52:41 PM »
Chance situation or not, good on you. Dave

Offline Mart

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2013, 07:15:24 PM »
I have a fear I'd be found wanting.

Very, very well done.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2014, 03:58:49 PM »
Just wanted to keep this in the news - especially as the car park in question is still there, there is still no barrier and the issue is getting worse: http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10969471.Care_system_blamed_over_suicide_increase/

Quote
New figures released by the council revealed that 26 suicides were reported in 2012 compared to 11 in 2005.

There was a consistent rise every year, except 2011, during that time period in Swindon.

Evidence suggested, a local authority report said, that there was a link between the recent national rise in suicide rates and the financial crisis that began in 2008, particularly with regard to unemployment.

Yet despite a recent drive to boost prevention, identifying those most at risk and cross-agency work in Swindon to ensure they don’t fall through cracks in the system, little progress has been made according to mental health charity Service Users Network Swindon (SUNS).


I think one of the strangest barriers to dealing with the problem is an attitudinal one. I was genuinely shocked by some of the desperately callous comments alongside the original article. Some people seem to think its acceptable to just shrug and assume that if someone wants to kill themselves then no one can stop them. That is such a morally pathetic and logically weak abrogation of basic humanity that perhaps its an illustration in itself why some people feel that death is the only solution to their problems.

Of course we can't save everyone - or even most. But if any of us have ever felt vulnerable to hopelessness or depression, surely we're all morally beholden to try?
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

ph1lc

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2014, 04:50:42 PM »
Of course we can't save everyone - or even most. But if any of us have ever felt vulnerable to hopelessness or depression, surely we're all morally beholden to try?

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2014, 05:05:55 PM »
Several friends and acquaintances of mine have taken their own lives.

I struggle to understand why none of them seemed to reach out for help and my peers and I have worried that we weren't receptive enough to any messages which were given. 

I despise those who eagerly assemble (both metaphorically and physically) to watch a 'jumper' and, whether silently or audibly, egg them on for their own gratification.

Humiliation, despair, misery and degradation have become 'entertainment' for some people, (it's why I don't watch the X Factor), and public appetite for it seems to be increasing at the same rate that public empathy is declining and I reckon the media is partly to blame.

Poor mental health is neither news or entertainment.  Sufferers of poor mental health don't 'decide' to become ill, it's not a lifestyle choice and it's not fun.  I've been there, bought the shirt and eaten the pie - it is as real and destructive as cancer and other serious diseases and it usually affects many more people than the sufferer alone.  I fully expect that most TS members will already know the truth of this and will know of, or been affected by someone suffering from poor mental mental health.

Suicide isn't usually the self indulgent piece of amateur dramatics some commentators would like it to be and I wonder how many of the 'callous commentators' Tobes refers to would publicly make similar comments about people who have succumbed to other serious illnesses.     

Offline Muggins

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2014, 06:09:47 PM »
Absolutely endorse all that Geoff.   As I go through life I notice that an awful lot of those 'who are on hard times', although maybe brash and noisy, do in fact suffer from poor mental health. 

I wonder how many of those we miss, because they put a brave face on it or focus on something else in front of us.  And how much they would have allowed us to help them, if they did admit it. 

The media doesn't help focusing as it does all the blessed time and repeatedly.

A member of my family took her own life, after years of struggling. I am sure there was nothing anyone could have done to stop her. 



 
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2014, 03:01:53 PM »
Only yesterday I said:

Several friends and acquaintances of mine have taken their own lives.

I struggle to understand why none of them seemed to reach out for help and my peers and I have worried that we weren't receptive enough to any messages which were given. 

I despise those who eagerly assemble (both metaphorically and physically) to watch a 'jumper' and, whether silently or audibly, egg them on for their own gratification.

Humiliation, despair, misery and degradation have become 'entertainment' for some people, (it's why I don't watch the X Factor), and public appetite for it seems to be increasing at the same rate that public empathy is declining and I reckon the media is partly to blame.

Poor mental health is neither news or entertainment.  Sufferers of poor mental health don't 'decide' to become ill, it's not a lifestyle choice and it's not fun.  I've been there, bought the shirt and eaten the pie - it is as real and destructive as cancer and other serious diseases and it usually affects many more people than the sufferer alone.  I fully expect that most TS members will already know the truth of this and will know of, or been affected by someone suffering from poor mental mental health.

Suicide isn't usually the self indulgent piece of amateur dramatics some commentators would like it to be and I wonder how many of the 'callous commentators' Tobes refers to would publicly make similar comments about people who have succumbed to other serious illnesses.   



And today, as if by magic:

Judge orders GWH caesarean for "psychotic" pregnant woman

I suppose it could be argued that the article raises public awareness of: Bi Polar disorders, how the Mental Health Act is sometimes used etc, etc, but, (and this is very subjective on my part), the level of detail given seems highly intrusive and I cannot for the life of me work out how publishing that article might in any way benefit the young woman or her family.

I'm glad that:  The Adver webbies didn't enable user comments - history has shown that a significant number of Adver website users are incapable of empathy and unable to discuss any subject without descending to a breath taking level of uninvited and unnecessary verbal viciousness.

I'm disappointed that: The Adver didn't 'tail' the piece with any links to bipolar support groups or charities.  If 'the media' is going to publish 'stories' like it should, (imho), demonstrate a small amount of social/moral conscience and help to promote organisations which support sufferers. 

What also concerns me about the way stories like these are reported is that, (using this story as an example), it that it might discourage other sufferers, and those supporting sufferers, to seek help when needed.

Anyhow, here's what the adver should have printed but didn't: (feel free to add some more)


http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/support-stephen-frys-charity-the-bipolar-foundation

http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/bipolar-disorder/

http://www.bipolaruk.org.uk/

Offline Tobes

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Re: Our Tobes - A Good Samaritan
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2014, 05:24:10 PM »
Nice one Geoff  :thumb:

I'd just like to pick up on something you said earlier Mugs -

Quote
A member of my family took her own life, after years of struggling. I am sure there was nothing anyone could have done to stop her. 

My sincere condolences.  I can't argue with that - but I'd caution against anyone adopting it as a generalised view regarding those who suffer from depression or mental illness. I say that because, again, reflected amongst the sociopathic bile-mongers on the Adver comments section, there's a lazy assumption that people live in impenetrable bubbles and that someone's fate is somehow both written and unaffected by the actions of the people around them.

Of course, some people can't or even won't be helped - but its my belief that they are very very much in the minority. Whilst I would never want to pile guilt onto anyone who has lost a loved one by implying that they might have tried harder, I think it still holds that it is always best to try and fail than to give up on someone. There is this idea that suicides can't be stopped 'if someone really wants to kill themselves' and that some think it removes any moral responsibility for trying to prevent it (as per the reaction by SBC to my call for barriers on the Wyvern car park). Of course, that is true to an extent if someone is consistently thinking about it and determined to act upon the urge - but it ignores the myriad of temporary reasons why someone might find themselves feeling so helpless as to consider that course because of something arising out of a crisis. It also fails to recognise that we all might have unknowingly had a positive influence which changed someone's train of thought without them even necessarily have been aware of it: a friendly chat, a kind deed - or even a firm word - any kind of support, help or guidance.

With the profusion of stresses people are facing at the moment, it might be more important now than ever before.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'