Author Topic: West Swindon Skate Board Park  (Read 37424 times)

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Offline Tobes

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2013, 09:57:38 PM »
The only room at the link would be to get rid of a load of car parking, which I doubt would go down well with the managers there. Mind you, you point about loos is a good one! Where are the users of this park supposed to go spend a penny? Are there any public loos nearby (gawd knows there are few enough of those to be found anywhere in Swindon!)

Not sure why it needs be somewhere wehere the police are in attendance though - I'm not aware that skate parks are any more 'centres of crime' than any basket ball court, footie field or play area...?
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2013, 11:55:24 PM »
Tobes the site I would use is to the left of the football pitches viewing them from The Link and I would install a camera so the police could view it from the comfort of their plod point.  You would be asking them to make a special effort to Police the Saltway which is down what is a dead end called Pearl Road. 

As for the parking next to the football pitches if you knew this area you would know it is NEVER used for parking!!

If you would care to come over sometime I could show you.

Meanwhile I take it is quiet again in the town centre and there is absolutely no crime or criminal damage and that your access gate is no longer required?  Perhaps you should also ask the staff at the Saltway centre what they think of the proposal to build this facility nearby and listen to what they have to say on the subject.  There are already significant problems which this would only make worse.

This is all rather irrelevant anyway because the decision has already been taken and the consultation is just window dressing!!

Just like the Lead Member for Leisure has told us that we are saddled with the costs of this Skate Park and its maintenance costs because someone omitted to include this Leisure Facility in the tender for the Link Centre!!

So much for cost cutting in the budget! The £60,000 cost does at least go some way towards the required cuts of £15m for next year so how can we afford it?  Lets add to the £6m interest charges a year by borrowing a bit more!!

You know it makes sense.   :crazy2:
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Offline Muggins

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2013, 08:29:31 AM »
Skates Parks are a difficult thing to find a balance - in more ways than one way.  We've found this: Usually it's a few kids who REALLY want one, but all kids are happy if you put one in - i.e they won't say no if one is offered.

Usually those few kids are, for some reason high profile, not necessarily bad, but causing a nuisance. In our case skateboarding at hectic helter skelter speeds, down steep gradients, on roads. And close to a large green area and playing fields.  We would never be able to replicate the fun they had down that hill.

Their parents invariably want a skate park for them and might even get off their backsides and campaign for one - they don't always want it right outside their house though.

So when we did the plan for Penhill Playing Fields, there was room for a small skatepark.  No one wants a large on,e as that may attract the hardened skateboarders from all over Swindon and that's a different kettle of fish with all sorts of bigger problems. We even sent someone over to Australia the home of skateboarding to look at their designs. (well, Mel did it on her visit home!) We also felt we would have to look at it as a permanent work of street art.

As with any play area, you really can't just decide to put one just anywhere, people MUST be asked if they can tolerate it.  Mostly they can't/won't.  And frankly although the kids in our street are always out playing, I wouldn't want one either.

So along with plans for other play equipment, we set about consulting the people living opposite the play site. We knocked doors and held a Have Say Day, and we managed at the time to get most peoples agreement. the site was across the road, across a bit of green and behind an hedge and luckily downhill from the houses,too.   

It was agreed that the majority would tolerate a small park.  Off it went with others to the council, who knew we were forward planning for the whole site.  And officers re-arranged our arrangement and put the skate park further up the bank, nearer the houses, so we had to point out our reasons and it was changed back.

The plan is still on the table, although it is a few years ago now, we would have to go back and get the Ok, absolutely no point in getting the money spent on something that will have to be removed after a few years. 

We wouldn't need much more than a £60,000 park, sounds a lot of money but that won't buy much these days so the one planned at Saltway must be a smallish one. 

The Park and Ride on the other side of Cricklade Road is totally unsuitable on safety grounds. A very important part of placing play equipment is that is should be overlooked by housing for the children's safety and people can see into it in passing.

The sad thing is that usually before the kids can use it, they've grown up, moved away and don't need it any more.  I don't see the point of play equipment behind bars that children can't use without being let in.

Over the past ten years, between the community raising funds and the council putting in equipment and despite fears of vandalism that has NOT materialised, we have a good regenerated play park now, so the kids are worth investing in.

Another thing to consider is that in fact, the park and any play equipment is not used 24 hours a day, mostly it stands in a state of tense anticipation waiting for kids to come and play on it, so in between it's wonderful silence. It's a wonderful way to keep the open space for the community and you can hear a pin drop most of he time.






Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline MARK_F

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2013, 09:09:21 PM »
From an email thread I received this is the mayors response to loo's and locations- what a idiot

"Local play facilities for children and teenagers are located in parks across West Swindon without toilets and a fish and chip shops to support them. It would indeed be a major change in Council policy to strip play areas and parks of multi-use games areas and locate them all at the Link Centre.
 
Regards
 
Cllr. Nick Martin"

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2013, 09:28:34 PM »
Did you expect anything more Mark?

After all it is his idea

to locate it at Saltway,

but the question remains would he spend his own money in this way?

knowing that the Council is massively in debt!!
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ph1lc

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2013, 10:12:08 PM »
I'm sorry Richard - to to outside world this just seems like a load of NIMBYs kicking off.

Can SBC afford a skate park? They seem to think so. This seems like the sort of facility that the Council should be funding.

The site looks like an ideal one.

i see your point about the link, but facilities really do need to be spread around the borough.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2013, 10:28:28 PM »
The skateboard park would almost certainly have come from a grant orr 106,,maybe even 50/50 funding bid. Can,t see the council coughing up the whole cost with our money.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Tobes

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2013, 10:34:27 PM »
TBH Richard, I largely agree with Ph1lc on this.

There's a point to be made about the way the consultation has been conducted, and there's a definite point about Nicks dismissive and rude tone to Mark... I think there's even a point about the proximity of the nearest public loos (for obvious reasons)

But there's not really any point to complaining about the provision of a small, cheap skatepark for Swindon's already under provisioned young people, especially when its obviously hundreds of yards from the nearest homes.

I can't understand why anyone would think this is a vanity project? Badly mishandled, perhaps - but its very small beer in the scale of things faced by Swindon, isn' it?

Like I've already said, I think there are plenty more valid reasons to put the boot into Nick Martin (provided there's any space left alongside his own foot-in-mouth!)

Quote
Meanwhile I take it is quiet again in the town centre and there is absolutely no crime or criminal damage and that your access gate is no longer required?  Perhaps you should also ask the staff at the Saltway centre what they think of the proposal to build this facility nearby and listen to what they have to say on the subject.  There are already significant problems which this would only make worse.

I hope you've already noted that I qualified my comments for precisely that reason. That said, there's something of a world of difference between a skate park in the middle of a playing field to be used by kids and five new bars serving alcohol located less than 50 yards of s residential area, with a new purpose built alley way linking to them  :wink:

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2013, 09:09:29 AM »
I'm sorry Richard - to to outside world this just seems like a load of NIMBYs kicking off.

Can SBC afford a skate park? They seem to think so. This seems like the sort of facility that the Council should be funding.

The site looks like an ideal one.

i see your point about the link, but facilities really do need to be spread around the borough.

Forget the Nimbys ph it is a question of the best location not a question of whether it is built.

The Nimbys, as you call them, agree it is a good idea but when we are trying to save £15m from the budget with interest charges orunning at 6% of your Council Tax Payments can we afford one when one is already being built in Highworth and there are already existing ones in Hayden Wick and Walcot?  The Walcot one was absolutely covered in Graffiti when I visited it last.  It is significant that the youth who spoke in favour of the scheme had come all the way from Highworth! 

How can it be ideal when there is already trouble in this very isolated site?  Are you suggesting that the problems at the Saltway Centre will diminish with more youth congregating there?

The skateboard park would almost certainly have come from a grant orr 106,,maybe even 50/50 funding bid. Can,t see the council coughing up the whole cost with our money.

To the best of my knowledge M there is no 106 money and would like to know from where you would expect this to come?
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ph1lc

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2013, 09:56:28 AM »
Sorry Richard - you've just described a NIMBY.



Offline Tobes

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2013, 11:39:44 AM »
Quote
The Nimbys, as you call them, agree it is a good idea but when we are trying to save £15m from the budget with interest charges orunning at 6% of your Council Tax Payments can we afford one when one is already being built in Highworth and there are already existing ones in Hayden Wick and Walcot?

Do you speak for 'the Nimbys'?

The trouble is, when issues like this come up, people start to compile long lists of objections - without realising that they start to contradict pretty quicky: Ie. This appears therefore to be both a good idea and simultaneously a bad one.

Its implied that a skatepark will bring more trouble... though its then conceded that there's already (undefined) trouble at or near this location. Is that 'trouble' caused by skaters, or just common-or-garden kids? What makes anyone imagine that visiting skaters will be the same kids as the existing ones?

The skate park is clearly a long distance from people's homes... and yet disruption to peoples home lives has been hinted at but not defined.

This actually reads more like the standard and rather more Daily Mail concept that all kids are to be shunned and feared. The existing site is a playing field. Kids for time immemorial have gathered in playing fields. Ought that be closed, fenced off and monitored with CCTV and access denied unless WC facilities are provided? - is the trouble there that intense and worrying?

Its been my experience of skaters that they're kids with a purpose. They're not merely hanging around a park bored, looking for something to do - they're there to do something specific - ie. skate! Kids with a purpose and an interest are far less likely to cause trouble or disruption than those with nothing to do... ie. like the ones currently hanging around the Saltway playing field?! Has anyone even entertained the logical possibility that a skate park might actually REDUCE anti social behaviour? Certainly worth a thought you know...

Quote
It is significant that the youth who spoke in favour of the scheme had come all the way from Highworth! 

Doesn't that show that there's a need for facilities right the way across the borough, rather than stuck in one location (ie. The Link?)

We have long lists of cuts to things which people constantly bemoan - and yet when a mere £60k is proposed to give generations of kids something positive to do, suddenly the small associated cost is a problem...?

Like I said earlier, there are many points which ought to be addressed, but scrambling for reasons to resist what ought to be an entirely reasonable proposal might risk looking more like entrenched and unfair nimbyism (and a politically motivated opportunity to put the boot into Nick Martin) rather than a fair assessment.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2013, 03:46:59 PM »

I don't have a problem with Nimbys or Nimby'ism.  I think the term is often used deliberately derogatorily.

Similarly, I'm entirely sympathetic to individual households and sections of communities who - quite reasonably in my opinion - like their local environs just as they are, don't want them tinkered with and are prepared to defend them against change which, in their opinion(s), will not enhance the quality of their domestic bliss or quiet enjoyment of their own homes.

It's quite easy to forensically examine anyone's argument for/against anything and find inconsistencies, variations and even contradictions, but that doesn't mean their overall argument is wrong. 

Surely the acid test here should not be whether placing the Skate Park at Salt Way benefits whomsoever uses it, but whether it dis-benefits those living closest to it, and whether the amount of potential dis-benefit it does cause is judged to be acceptable by those affected by it.

I haven't yet seen any credible opinion which suggests that a Saltway Skate Park will enhance the lives of local residents.

I'm also struck by the irony of seeing people who have themselves been previously labelled 'Nimby's' for voicing their opposition to plans which affect their local environs and quiet enjoyment of their homes accusing others of Nimby'ism....

...especially so when the attendance list for next Tuesday's 'Better Swindon' meeting could quite accurately described as reading like a Who's Who of Swindon Nimby'ism !  ;D

ph1lc

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2013, 03:56:34 PM »
One can take that point Geoff, however in this case the objectors seem to be saying there is a need for a skate park.

Is Saltway a suitable site? To my mind it is.

Therefore I have to re-iterate the objectors are NIMBYs.

As far as Councillor Martin is concerned - his reaction is simply further proof of his unsuitability to be 1) Mayor and 2) a Councillor.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2013, 04:49:33 PM »
I wouldn't call people nimbys if I would not accept the same thing outside my house. As far as I'm concerned people have a right to protect either their investment and/or their home.

Kids need outside places to play, unsupervised if possible, but they need to be as safe as possible. It needs to be local, which is why they are popping up all around, small rather than one large one centrally. If it is coming direct from our community charge budget, then obviously it will go either in order of priority or in order of who has the most powerful councillor.

Are you saying Richard, that you think SBC and us ('cause if it's our money) should not be providing play equipment?  If you are then you should put this on your election leaflet, people need to know something like that.

I still think it might well be a of purpose grant or a bit of budget left from somewhere else.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2013, 02:32:39 AM »
One can take that point Geoff, however in this case the objectors seem to be saying there is a need for a skate park.

Is Saltway a suitable site? To my mind it is.

Therefore I have to re-iterate the objectors are NIMBYs.

As far as Councillor Martin is concerned - his reaction is simply further proof of his unsuitability to be 1) Mayor and 2) a Councillor.

I don't have a view on the need for a skate park, neither do I know how the need was assessed or gauged.  From my own experience as a teenage skater I tend to think if it is built, skaters will come and they will use it.

Saltway might be a site which is deemed suitable for a skatepark, but is it the most suitable site in West Swindon?  I don't think it is.  In my opinion Lydiard Park is better than Saltway and the Link centre better than Saltway and Lydiard. 

Incidentally, if Wharf Green* were being proposed as a site for a skate park I'm sure Cllr Perkins would be harping on about the benefits of increased footfall, good transport links, easy community policing, site security, cctv, public toilets and 'vibrancy' - all of which would be equally true of the Link centre, but of the advantages of putting it at the link centre, (a centre they have previously described as a 'sporting hub'), we have heard not a peep.

I also note that 'a clear line of site' has been mentioned regarding the policing of the Saltway site.  I'm not sure why 'policing' is an issue for the pro-saltway lobby, but if policing is a concern for them then it's worth pointing out that the Link centre has a police point which almost always has a police car and an ambulance sat there.  Pretty much ideal if Tarquin flies off his Alien Workshop board and cracks his spine and perfect if he's come from, or going to, somewhere else in Swindon by bus.  I'd assume that kiddy fiddlers and drug pushers would also be more wary of exercising their interests at the Link than at Saltway.

As a parent, and thinking back to Da Mellons formative years, I think I'd be happier knowing he was skating at the Link than Saltway, particularly during the darker months.  Ultimately, boarders and skaters will use the skate park wherever it is sited and if it is a good site, they will travel to use it.  A good site in a good location makes for excellence, popularity and community acceptance.  Saltway scores only 1 out of 3 imho.

As to the cost?, well, £60,000 is roughly 1/6th of a WiFi.  None of West Swindon's Conservative Councillors have batted an eyelid at handing over £400,000 of taxpayers money to Mr Hunt to use, so I don't accept that handing a £60,000 skate park to whoever they choose to give the Link centre to should in any way be objectionable to them, unless their intention is to purchase £60,000 worth of votes in Shaw ward.

£60,000 sounds like good value to me and I don't object to taxpayer cash being used, (if it even is taxpayer cash), to pay for it.  I also don't mind who owns it after it is built, just so long as it is maintained by whoever does own it and that it remains open and available for skaters to use.

We might disagree on the most suitable site but we appear to be in complete accord on the unsuitability of Cllr Martin  ;D


* I'm also totally in favour of town centre skating/boarding - I'm pretty sure that I've already posted some stuff about skaters on Paris, so I'll see if I can find it again. 

** I should also mention that I was one of Newbury's very first skateboarders.  I and my friends waited for a long time for Newbury to get a skate park.  When it finally happened we were all too old to use it.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2013, 02:45:44 AM »
I'd love to see this in Wharf Green.....

Click thumbnail to enlarge - and look carefully  :wink:



I reckon more people will regularly stand and watch good skaters and boarders than they would the Big TV.  I spent so long watching and applauding these Parisian skaters that Tig got quite bored  :embarassed:

Offline Muggins

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2013, 08:12:00 AM »
Too old before they get it, is a point I made in my postings Geoff, I remember 10 years ago, saying to the young man who was pushing for the skateboard park then, that did, he realise he would be doing it for others as he might be an old man treading on his beard before we got it.

When Mel and he, did their Australian trip they brought us back several photos of the Aussie parks and they are really quite diverse. the one we thought we would like copied was just a big, quite shallow, bowl with seats on one side, a bit like an amphitheatre, that way, we thought it could have more than one use and keep the skaters satisfied. Maybe somewhere for the Penhill Players to do something outside and for say, story telling on find days.

We didn't cost it out, or at least I don't think we did, but a good modest junior playground costs £60,000 and our Multi Use Games Arena (the one we won through ITV Peoples Millions) cost was nearly £50,000.

Handy toolkit, 10 years out of date but a guide to the prices and what Councils need to do. Courtesy of Stroud.

http://www.stroud.gov.uk/info/skate_park_applications_guide.pdf
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2013, 10:42:19 AM »
Quote
The Nimbys, as you call them, agree it is a good idea but when we are trying to save £15m from the budget with
Do you speak for 'the Nimbys'?

No as they are one and the same as people who have put forward valid objections to this site then I guess I do speak on their behalf.  Had I met anyone other than a Councillor who thought this was a good idea and was the best available I would speak up on their behalf as well, but I haven't.  It is significant that anyone else to whom I have spoken in the Middleleaze area is totally against it and most of them are parents.  If I am to be a serious candidate in these elections I must reflect the majority viewpoint and I can only substantiate that if I talk to people.  This appears to be something that has been completely lacking for years in this ward and probably in the majority of Swindon as well.  We usually only see our Conservative threesome at election times!!

Are you saying Richard, that you think SBC and us ('cause if it's our money) should not be providing play equipment?  If you are then you should put this on your election leaflet, people need to know something like that.

Where did I say that M?  I am in favour of providing enjoyable and carefully considered play areas which offer value for money and are actually a benefit to the community in which they are to be located.  Any election leaflet produced to promote my campaign to be elected as an Independent Councillor for Shaw will be the Truth the Whole Truth and nothing but the Truth and will make no promises on what cannot be delivered.

Saltway might be a site which is deemed suitable for a skatepark, but is it the most suitable site in West Swindon?  I don't think it is.  In my opinion Lydiard Park is better than Saltway and the Link centre better than Saltway and Lydiard. 

I doubt if anyone in West Swindon would disagree with that statement Geoff, if they had the chance that is!!

Incidentally, if Wharf Green* were being proposed as a site for a skate park I'm sure Cllr Perkins would be harping on about the benefits of increased footfall, good transport links, easy community policing, site security, cctv, public toilets and 'vibrancy' - all of which would be equally true of the Link centre, but of the advantages of putting it at the link centre, (a centre they have previously described as a 'sporting hub'), we have heard not a peep.

Garry Perkins is nowhere to be seen on this issue, in fact he didn't even bother to attend the West Forum last Monday night.  Is that because he has been unseated in Shaw by the Martins and if so what is he going to do about Saltway?  Surely he would be unlikely to support the Martins on this issue or would he?

Added to which he has yet to account for the £400,000 of Swindon Borough Council Tax Payers money in that Vibrant and Innovative  Loan to Digital City a company of which I believe he is still a Director, currently in the throws of being struck off the Register of Companies.

I also note that 'a clear line of site' has been mentioned regarding the policing of the Saltway site.  I'm not sure why 'policing' is an issue for the pro-saltway lobby, but if policing is a concern for them then it's worth pointing out that the Link centre has a police point which almost always has a police car and an ambulance sat there.  Pretty much ideal if Tarquin flies off his Alien Workshop board and cracks his spine and perfect if he's come from, or going to, somewhere else in Swindon by bus.  I'd assume that kiddy fiddlers and drug pushers would also be more wary of exercising their interests at the Link than at Saltway.

I still do not understand why this should be regarded as a reason why this site is the best available?  Don't those in favour of the site understand that Saltway is down a dead end street and would have to visited by 'exception' by the Police and if there were to be a camera and an incident, by the time they got there the problem would have disappeared along the myriad of paths emanating from the site?  Unlike any of you I have spoken to the people at the Saltway centre and they are worried about the impact of this facility.  The police were asked for their opinion on Monday night but refused to comment and said they would only do so at the decision stage.  I hope they do not have to regret that decision as they are rightly proud of the reduction in crime in the area.

All my posts are my own opinion and do not represent any political organization or group

Offline Muggins

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2013, 05:05:27 PM »
Richard: Where did I say that M?  I am in favour of providing enjoyable and carefully considered play areas which offer value for money and are actually a benefit to the community in which they are to be located.  Any election leaflet produced to promote my campaign to be elected as an Independent Councillor for Shaw will be the Truth the Whole Truth and nothing but the Truth and will make no promises on what cannot be delivered

You didn't say, but from what you are writing I was wondering where you stood on it.  How will you know what is possible before you get in?  You'll hardly be able to promise anything because you won't know what's possible. Being independent standing against other party candidates, they are hardly likely to share the history you will need, will officers and others want to share the detail with you? Unless you have been active in these matters you will have a job on too. Better to say that you do or do not believe in whatever matter is raised and say that you will do your best etc. etc. but that mind sound a bit hollow against candidates who do know or have been active beforehand.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Is the Saltway Skate Park Nick Martin's Personal Vanity pRoject?
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2013, 05:21:46 PM »
M why do you do what you do then?

I presume it is because you believe you can make a difference?

and I do believe I can make a difference, otherwise I would not be wasting my time.

As for making a difference no one ever knows until they try.  Do you agree?

Now let us please get back to the subject in hand.
All my posts are my own opinion and do not represent any political organization or group