Author Topic: Haydon Wick By Election 2013  (Read 13968 times)

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Offline bobwright

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Re: Haydon Wick By Election 2013
« Reply #100 on: August 14, 2013, 01:40:22 AM »
Geoff - I get exposed to more than most on details that don't make the National newspapers but go someway to explaining why immigration often gets treated in a negative way and why immigration is happening and gets misunderstood.

My memory goes back to the sixties when immigrants were sought for Hospitals, Buses and manual labour tasks. I also recall the changes in former British Territories  which led to this country becoming home to former commonwealth members. Hong Kong being a recent example. I have witnessed the arranged and desperate need for lifelong relationships which has resulted in partners from lands inside and out of the EU.

Quite recently I have heard employers stating they need to find Labour outside of Britain due to skill shortages including our local Hospital. A hospital that depends on labour and skills of people not born in this country. Also this week I learnt that one form of financial support for those in financial/social difficulties is nearly all going to white British residents. I also see the distortion of figures regarding housing allocation which when available nearly always goes to Swindon residents born in this country.

I was also recently struck by the grounds for needing more immigrants to provide tax to support our pension system. This being due to the end of the nuclear family and reducing birthrate of British Citizens of most backgrounds. I also learnt through social study that by the third generation that most former immigrant family birthrates tend to become aligned to British norms. The previous Labour Government had identified the need for an increased population as a way of providing for the baby boomer pensions. This did not need to be answered by immigration however EU and other immigration is one realstic answer.

I have not referred to European membership in any depth however it is apparent financial advantage or economic grounds for relocating is not restricted to Europe and this includes the millions of former British Citizens seeking a better future based on economic opportunity. Economic disparity and poverty seems to me to be the biggest driver for emigration and immigration. My family came from Devon to Swindon for work and to make it our home. We got on our bikes and were fortunate to start a new life in Swindon. There was some resentment to newcomers in those days and I was reminded of this by another councillor yesterday whose family suffered verbal abuse and told to go home. This would not have helped the local employers but it might have helped those who wanted things to become as they use to be. The reality is Swindon changed and many remained. Looking back to the past when Romans, Saxons, Danes, Scandinavian French and others arrived in this country the country was forced to change. Many did not like it but change happened and the country learnt how to accommodate and adapt. I think history will repeat itself even though many want things to reverse unfortunately for them the main employers don't. 

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Haydon Wick By Election 2013
« Reply #101 on: August 14, 2013, 12:10:03 PM »
Bob, I thought the thought on bliars and browns back door open immigration policy was to lower the middle classes and also it would be good for votes on the day..
Nobody has ever explained when these people come to this country, with no means of income, and being so they are not allowed to work, the illegal ones that is, what do they do for housing etc, your saying it goes to local people so who puts them up, apart from the sheds in slough....

Offline Mart

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Re: Haydon Wick By Election 2013
« Reply #102 on: August 14, 2013, 09:17:56 PM »
I must take issue.

Looking back to the past when Romans, Saxons, Danes, Scandinavian French and others arrived in this country  the country was forced to change. Many did not like it but change happened and the country learnt how to accommodate and adapt. I think history will repeat itself even though many want things to reverse unfortunately for them the main employers don't.

The original Brits, whoever they were, laid no claim to an 'immigration policy'. Consequently those wishing to enter the country did so at swordpoint. As far as I am aware they showed no passports, nor did they have to show they had any relatives already resident or that they had gainful employment ready and waiting. Just as well since declaring 'conquest' as the purpose of their visit whilst frank and honest would have been rather academic given the invasion force queuing patiently at the non existent passport control.

Admittedly they had to make their own way, no benefits, translators or housing was offered. Again academic since they simply took what they needed by chopping up whoever claimed ownership at the time.

Also the demographics were a bit wonky as these immigrants were suspiciously biased towards men of a swordbearing age.

I must also take issue with the mention of the 'French'. The last lot of supposed 'French' to invade successfully were Normans, Normans were Norsemen also known as Vikings.

Immigration in modern times was, supposedly, a controlled process managed by professionals and subject to impressive legislation.

Labour have since admitted they fecked it up and the Tories have done sweet bugger all about it except fiddle figures.

Were I to accept that Normans sticking arrows in Harold's eye was just boisterous joy at gaining entry to our septic isle then you would also have to accept that Iraq trundling into Kuwait was simply an immigration spike,

I accept we are an island of mongrels. It's the constant protestations that it's all fine, under control and well managed that get on my nerves. Harold could have made the same protestations with the same wild inaccuracy if he'd kept his helmet on. 'Careful with that. you'll have someone's eye out'.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline bobwright

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Re: Haydon Wick By Election 2013
« Reply #103 on: August 14, 2013, 11:15:35 PM »
Kohima - Not quite sure how to answer this so I spit it three ways although perhaps this is not the right thread for continuing this line of interaction. I have taken this is about housing?

Legitimate immigrants - with or without means seem to be able to buy up mansions in London because they can afford to or they can rely on family or former community members to put them up. Most I meet share houses and costs. When they gain employment they tend to move on. I don't think I have met one legal immigrant who has not wanted to work, set up home and care for their family and community.

Illegitimate immigrants known or not tend to survive in different ways. Some are known and subject to reporting whilst cases are handled. They can be in known locations or be kept under restrictions. Those who are not known to authorities disappear into communities who support them to a degree or they sleep rough. I say to a degree because when they become known it is sometimes because they have been exploited and want to escape their situations. We have people in this country who exploit work and housing.

Asylum Seekers (a legitimate process) is usually supported by hostels, B & B's or low cost rentals (supported by charities) until the applications are processed. This can mean moving around the country, not settling down and moving children from school to school or relying on walkin centres for health etc

Offline bobwright

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Re: Haydon Wick By Election 2013
« Reply #104 on: August 14, 2013, 11:41:47 PM »
Mart - with or without passports, with or without swords were the invaders immigrants?

I accept the Norse reference however I went for Scandinavian French because established invaders often take on local fighting people for money as well as other mercenaries from other areas/countries. French language of the day was introduced and is still used in Parliament today.

The evidence for the arrow in Harold's eye is now being challenged as not being accurate. A Historical myth and so it continues today in our national press and other news sources.

I think the invasion theme probably only really works when the invaders stay and change the culture and behaviour of the previous residents. it starts to become problematic when looking at Israel in Palestine or when you look at South Africa. The dominant culture can last for a while but usually falls or is torn apart by those who have been disenfranchised against their will.

I do regard myself as a mongrel with former family members from Wales, Sheffield, Devon and further afield.

Regarding control I have had to deal with the Home office directly and indirectly on immigration matters for around six years. John Reid was right it was and may still be not fit for purpose. The length of proper immigration processing time is a disgrace.