Author Topic: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it  (Read 21789 times)

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Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2014, 09:43:02 PM »
Surely the reason question must be how can the Solicitor General impose standards and rules if he has broken them himself, however innocently?
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Offline Tobes

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2014, 11:39:08 PM »
Like I said, we would then have to preclude a Minister for Transport for having had a speeding ticket...

I think its a question of degree, intent and honesty. As well as being historical rather than contemporary.

This was not a huge indiscretion - though it was recognised at the time (three years ago!), reported, he was admonished, his intentions at the time seemed legitimate if misguided, he got caught, it was reported on the public record at the time, he's been frank about it.

Don't see the problem, tbh.  :-\

I don't expect my politicians to be perfect or beyond reproach, as long as they don't try to hide or deny their failings - and most important of all, they learn from them.

To quote Shakespeare;

The jury, passing on the prisoner's life,
May in the sworn twelve have a thief or two
Guiltier than him they try.


The canker at the heart of politics is hidden misdemeanour's and dishonesty, not human failing.

Robert may have made a mistake, but it's not one I see which would prevent him from doing his job. In fact, it might actually make him better at doing it if he has the perspective and the humility which it ought have taught him.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Phil Chitty

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2014, 12:33:02 PM »
Don't see the problem, tbh.  :-\

I don't expect my politicians to be perfect or beyond reproach, as long as they don't try to hide or deny their failings - and most important of all, they learn from them.

Totally agree Tobes.

Buckland's motives in doing what he did appear to be totally honourable - trying as a school governor to get to the bottom of what was a terrible situation.

I note Opportunity Annie sounding off about it in the Adver today - is there no bandwagon she won't jump on.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2014, 01:15:29 PM »
I'm inclined to agree with Tobes, we all make mistakes or rather not follow  through, but its what we learn from that mistake - sometimes it takes that to keep people really on their toes.

None the less, the family of the boy concerned seems very upset about his appointment, the question is, was it them that stood up first or opposition politicians?

No doubt they were the first people the press called for a quote.
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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2014, 02:43:02 PM »
Buckland's motives in doing what he did appear to be totally honourable - trying as a school governor to get to the bottom of what was a terrible situation.

I note Opportunity Annie sounding off about it in the Adver today - is there no bandwagon she won't jump on.

So did the Bar Standards Council get it wrong then?

Good on Anne for scrutinising Swindon politicians' behaviour...someone has to do it. 




Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2014, 03:58:33 PM »
when mandleson had to resign twice from the gov, over fraud deals etc, he was then given the uk top job in the EU, did Annie make any noises about that??

Offline Tobes

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2014, 05:32:45 PM »
... and as one of the commentards on the Adver site has pointed out (accurately, for once!) what Robert did was transcend a professional rule, NOT the law.

That important detail is something which a lot of people seem to be missing...  :-\

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Good on Anne for scrutinising Swindon politicians' behaviour...someone has to do it.

Nothing wrong with that - but oh sweet irony - as Terry has just pointed out, a moral stance is something which is applied evenly, NOT according to who's your friend or your political opponent.

I wonder what she makes of old buddy Tony Blair being Middle Eastern 'Peace Envoy' despite his record on Iraq? Is that role more or less important that Solicitor General? Is his credibility in that role more or less likely to be influenced by his past mistakes?

You tell me Anne  :angel:

Hypocrisy is far worse than making a mistake, in my book. Anne and her supporters would be well minded to remember that.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 06:06:36 PM by Tobes »
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2014, 06:21:28 PM »
Quote
Surely the reason question must be how can the Solicitor General impose standards and rules if he has broken them himself, however innocently?

mmm, interesting how when a policeman 'broke the rules of PACE' - rules designed to protect individuals from improper behaviour by the police, the man was almost canonised. Robert Buckland breaks a rule - a rule made by his professional body as opposed to Parliament and some people want his head.

Robert Buckland broke the rules and he was admonished for doing so - I don't recollect Mrs Webster raising the roof when Robert Buckland was nominated as the Conservative Candidate or when he was elected to Parliament. Both occasions presented her with an opportunity to 'make her case' - I appreciate her anger but not her timing.

As for whether Mr Buckland can impose standards and rules - yes he can

Offline Phil Chitty

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2014, 06:22:25 PM »

Hypocrisy is far worse than making a mistake, in my book. Anne and her supporters would be well minded to remember that.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Offline Tobes

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2014, 06:46:39 PM »
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C'mon, you can't just play the confirmation bias card every time someone voices a different opinion to yours. My post was intended to bring the Daily Mail article to people's attention. I didn't pass judgement and certainly wasn't influenced by confirmation bias as I tend to agree with you that this is not a big deal.

I wasn't basing that observation on your comments - more the churning wheels of the political bandwaggon and the comments made by the likes of Snelgrove et al:wink:

... and I try to use the term only when a group alight on an issue and use it to 'prove' something or besmirch someone in an overtly non-objective way. Again, I think some of the commentary from certain corners hasn't looked at the issue 'in the round'. TS is actually proving to be one of the few places in which the debate is proving to be very much more open - despite it supposedly being a hot-bed of lefties  ::)

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I don't recollect Mrs Webster raising the roof when Robert Buckland was nominated as the Conservative Candidate or when he was elected to Parliament. Both occasions presented her with an opportunity to 'make her case' - I appreciate her anger but not her timing.

Indeed.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline the gorgon

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2014, 07:12:27 PM »
Surely the reason question must be how can the Solicitor General impose standards and rules if he has broken them himself, however innocently?

If he was considered to be still fit to act as a solicitor and part-time judge and wasn't fined or suspended you can say that this equivalent to or even less serious than points on a driving license for speeding (or maybe a police caution). 

Much like a points on a driving license (expire after 4 years) this "conviction" was spent after 2 years or in other words in 2013. According to BBC Points West it has now been removed from the Inns of Court website so I guess it was still listed there due to human error.  Because of this he was under no obligation to inform the PM and if he was asked about it he could truthfully he has no "conviction".

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2014, 01:08:24 AM »

I'm not smelling any scandal here - Bob did what he did and has already taken his professional lumps for it and, as has already been pointed out, the experience might make him fitter for his new role.

I obviously don't know the motives behind his actions,  but I am interested in knowing how this past misdemeanor has been exhumed and reanimated.

Who is grinding axes and pumping the bellows?

Offline Tobes

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2014, 07:17:14 AM »
Quote
Who is grinding axes and pumping the bellows?

I suspect its a combination of factors.

Some of the Adver comments have claimed that the victim's mother lost a civil case against the school claiming compensation (I am not aware of the details of that). Its certainly obvious that she's been has been extensively quoted in many if not all the articles I've read criticising his appointment.

Of course, its possible that Labour have kept this issue up their sleeves for a while, but frankly I don't think they've the intelligence such deviousness would have required to have resisted playing the card when he was first elected as an MP. In their case it looks like discredited politics as usual; attack when you can by any means possible whenever you are presented the opportunity (whilst accusing the other side of smear tactics, of course).

Its all a rather tawdry affair to see this being played out now, simply because he's been given a prominent role. At the end of the day, the perpetrators of a horrible crime have or are still doing time, the victim has recovered and appears to be doing well enough to have gone off to University and everyone involved has no doubt learned a lot of lessons.

To continue to justify attacking Robert seems to me to require a belief he acted either in a grossly incompetent or deliberately manipulative and malign way. Knowing a bit about the man, I simply don't see either. 
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Muggins

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2014, 09:15:55 AM »
I'd suggest that this is how it panned out. Robert was appointed - apart from them up in Westminster the next people to know would be the press via a Press release etc.

It gets picked up on his home turf, straight away of course.  Adver reporters remember the highly controversial school story - School supposedly one of the best in Swindon - lad very badly injured by racist/bullying???? Wasn't it in the school playground after hours?? Can't remember the actual story, but it ran for some time on and off and was thoroughly unpleasant, so I can see it would stick in the mind of reporters/editors.  Adver decides to run story.  Starts phoning people. Phones lads parents (probably still living with the consequences), friends, maybe even the school, then, having found their contact list, probably Anne Snelgrove as an opposition spokesperson.

Being chased to give a comment can be a very unpleasant thing and if the press think there is an exciting headline in it, they are persistent.

Robert probably didn't have to tell the PM even if her remembered the incident, because although it might seem very unpleasant to us, it's probably all in a days work for an MP - but its just as well it's out now, then he can get on with the job.  I'd worry abut him getting that post, but not for these reasons.  Let's see how he does!



I lay good money down that none of those went to the press first.
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Offline Tobes

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2014, 06:14:06 PM »
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I lay good money down that none of those went to the press first.


... but given that the whole story doesn't lie in the Webster/'Asian Invasion incident but in Roberts otherwise unreported censure by the Inns of Court after Mrs Websters failed civil action, I'd lay equally good money that this wasn't lead by an adver reporter.

I'm pretty sure this has blown up after someone with both an axe to grind and a detailed eye to Robert's history put together an 'interesting package', one th Adver couldn't ignore (nor the national press, for that matter).

I guess we're unlikely to ever know for sure, but the speed of Snelgrove's involvement and the readiness of Mrs Webster to quote in detail makes me wonder quite how 'spontaneous' and unplanned the reaction really was.

Again, I suggest this based on my years as a PR...

The story about his appointment broke on the 15th of July.

It wasn't until the 21st that we had a sniff of outspoken criticism - and this was extensively made by Mrs Webster.

If the Adver were the driving force behind linking his appointment to a 'scandal', they would clearly have done it either the same day or immediately after, in my opinion.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Spunkymonkey

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2014, 08:45:16 PM »
The story about his appointment broke on the 15th of July.

It wasn't until the 21st that we had a sniff of outspoken criticism - and this was extensively made by Mrs Webster.

If the Adver were the driving force behind linking his appointment to a 'scandal', they would clearly have done it either the same day or immediately after, in my opinion.

According to the original news article, it was Mrs Webster who took the original complaint to Bar Standards 3 years ago. My guess is that Mrs Webster went to the Adver and not the other way round, but we will probably never know for sure.

Offline Spunkymonkey

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2014, 09:01:16 PM »
I haven't heard much about this in the national press since the story first broke suggesting that it is going to go away.

I know this is a different situation, but I can't help drawing comparisons with the former Mayor Martin's experience.

It seems that people are able to taken into account Robert Buckland's previous good character and have accepted this as a minor one-off mistake. His willingness to admit to his mistake has made the opposition and the press lose interest.

In contrast, Nick Martin's extensive denials kept his story in the press and ultimately made his position untenable. Would a prompt and sincere
apology have saved him?

Is there a lesson to be learnt here?

Offline the gorgon

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2014, 04:27:51 PM »
Goes to show the difference that dealing with something promptly and properly does.

Offline Gordon Smith

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2014, 07:09:47 PM »
What a surprise!  Mr Buckland has voted for the party requirements on all but one time which was against Gay marriage.

In fact I, with several others, have emails from Mr Buckland saying that he is not in office to support the people of Swindon but simply to support the Tory party.

I notice that Mr Buckland's favourite rag The Link, has pictures of him doing various things like prospecting at the Ridgeway Farm disaster and also of him  saying he is proud to be given the post of Solicitor Beneral and IT WILL NOT AFFECT the support he gives to Swindon people. Of course it won't because Mr Buckland has stated that he is not in office to support us only the Tory party.

So S.Swindon does not have an elected representative in parliament.

I thought Snelgrove was bad as she would only respond with extracts from Blair's propaganda, but Buckland is just a typical politician, out for Buckland and no one else.

Well I will do my best to ensure he serves just one term supporting the Tory party in London.

Offline Phil Chitty

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Re: Bad news, and Robert Buckland MP is part of it
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2014, 08:01:34 PM »

In fact I, with several others, have emails from Mr Buckland saying that he is not in office to support the people of Swindon but simply to support the Tory party.



Time to put up or shut up.

Somehow I don't think you can prove that!