Author Topic: Yeah....OK !  (Read 3849 times)

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Offline Outoftowner

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Re: Yeah....OK !
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2013, 10:53:06 AM »
I forgot to add to that.
 A person spending a large amount of their time as an activist is not seeking work and any state benefits should be withdrawn.

TS members may wish to reflect on how many convicted terrorists in British jails or already "martyred", had no financial means of support that could be verified. Many of these people did not work but travelled extensively. Where do they get the money and could it be intercepted by the Security Services
What's it all about?

Offline Tobes

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Re: Yeah....OK !
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2013, 05:06:07 PM »
Quote
TS members may wish to reflect on how many convicted terrorists in British jails or already "martyred", had no financial means of support that could be verified. Many of these people did not work but travelled extensively. Where do they get the money and could it be intercepted by the Security Services

... Isn't that pretty much the case for all hardened criminals, mind you?
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Yeah....OK !
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2013, 05:53:40 PM »
Quote
TS members may wish to reflect on how many convicted terrorists in British jails or already "martyred", had no financial means of support that could be verified. Many of these people did not work but travelled extensively. Where do they get the money and could it be intercepted by the Security Services

... Isn't that pretty much the case for all hardened criminals, mind you?

And a large proportion of the upper class ?

Offline boothill

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Re: Yeah....OK !
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2013, 06:39:25 PM »
                                                                  'It was plod which (?) cuffed him in a public place'


                                                                   with absolutely NO input from HMG or the alleged Sercurity Service of this nation ?

                                                                   somebody gonna get the coffee started ?


                                                                   yeah....ok !
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Yeah....OK !
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2013, 07:28:17 PM »

Hmm... Yes and no. One of the reasons I loathe and despise religion so much is the false thinking it promotes. The black islamist murderer who beheaded the squaddy spoke with a thick London accent. He is of Nigerian origin. Yet as he attempted to justify his actions, he mentioned western troops killing muslims 'in our land'; regardless of the schisms which see muslims sects fighting constantly amongst themselves, from Syria to Iran and Iraq and regardless of the fact that Afghanistan is a land as foreign to him and his language and culture as any. He and his religious brethren aren't being nationalistic. They think they are defending an entire set of cultural values. I think thats the way we should start looking at it too so we can separate out modern moderate Islam from the insanity of the radicals. But it is a clash of ideals. It is probably the last polarising head on collision of philosophy and values of the modern globalised world after the fall of communism: Those who believe in a set of values shaped by a medieval outlook - and those who believe in a shared rather than imposed system that is predicated around a tolerance of difference.

These people are no more open to logic than Rob. They are indoctrinated into an extremist culture in which acts like this are not only justified but seen as a religious duty, for which a supernatural being will reward them in an afterlife. Fighting is literally a way of life for large numbers of people sharing similar ideals within of the tribal cultures of Afghanistan and Pakistan (let alone those weened on the chaos and violence of Nigeria, Siera Leone, Ethiopia etc.). How does one engage with or respect a culture or set of ethical values in which adherants can justify a young man being knocked over by a car and then having his head hacked off with a kitchen knife in front of women and children?

I don't see any difference in the destructive evil of that kind of thinking than the worst excesses of Fascism, communism or the rationale of the likes of Mugabe, Pol Pot, Hitler or Idi Amin. They represented ideologies which could not be reasoned with. I'm not opposed to trying - but I seriously doubt the possibility of achieving anything in the face of such ugly, bestial ignorance and religious certainty.

Its a strange world in which we live.

I for one though am grateful that brave young men and women from democratic countries are prepared to put their lives on the line in foreign lands - and I can't help wondering of the hundreds of sympathisers to the Islamist cause they have killed would not have otherwise committed atrocities in the cities of the west. They have the desire, the motivation and sometimes the means. At least this war gives them a battlefield in which to wage their jihad. Personally, I'd prefer them meet their maker in the dust of Afghanistan than on the streets of our cities, strapped to a bomb or holding a stanley knife to a hostages throat on some plane. For that, I am extremely grateful for the sacrifices our armed forces are making.

Pretty much agree with all the above although I would add the following:

I believe that some people really like the idea of killing and, after finding a religious justification for killing others, take to the task with as little thought as any other predator.  Generally speaking society has few qualms about killing predators when they are spotted some distance from the herd, but does get squeamish about culling a predator once it has got amongst the herd. 

I think this indicates one of several regressive societal responses to predators, e.g "He looks like us so must think and behave like us".  Another regressive response to predators would be: "If we can understand this person, find some common values, we can reason with him".  No. You really can't reason with a predator any more than you reason with Rob Magic.

Human predators live outside the morals and mores of modern society, do not observe or live within the bounds of any law except those which agree with their purposes and desires although, once captured, they do expect and demand every right afforded to them by the laws which they have thusfar ignored.

Paradoxically, if we change the way we behave towards them - 'getting tougher on crime and the causes of crime', are we not hastening the creation of a society of which the predators would approve - 'an eye for an eye' for example?

I veer towards a prevention is better than cure solution and a zero tolerance of religious shit from any quarter. Better yet, ban any and all religions and religious practices from this country where followers of such religions have reached a certain body-count, here or abroad, in the last 50 years and boot out any bugger who tries to religiously annexe the UK on behalf of their deity of choice. 

I don't think I'm overly xenophobic and I know I'm not racist, but I think I'm getting very pissed off with various varieties of fascist bastard holding a blade in one hand and a bomb/cleaver/gun in the other killing people 'because God told him to do it' and he, God's murderer, wants us to do what he says.  I'm similarly getting really angry with every damned MP who treats every murder-by-terrorist as an excuse to push 'The State' one more goose-step towards fascism.

Fuck that for a game of soldiers and I, once a champion archer, (in my younger and fitter days, feel justified in offering all of them the Agincourt salute.....

Offline Simon

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Re: Yeah....OK !
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2013, 09:08:42 PM »
I veer towards a prevention is better than cure solution and a zero tolerance of religious shit from any quarter. Better yet, ban any and all religions and religious practices from this country where followers of such religions have reached a certain body-count, here or abroad, in the last 50 years and boot out any bugger who tries to religiously annexe the UK on behalf of their deity of choice. 


I'd agree with the first part of that, but how many people do people who claim to be christians have to kill (either in person or by ordering their subordinates) before christianity is banned? Tony Blair and George Dubya Bush both claim to be christians, and how many innocents have their "war on terror" killed?

Not that I want to ban christians from practising their faith of course, any more than I want to ban any other faith group from doing so.

Are Tony Blair and George Dubya representative of all christians? In both cases I'd say no.

Is the nutter with the bloody hands who had apparently just hacked an off-duty soldier to death representative of all muslims? I'd say no in that case too.

Deal with the individual, not the stereotype box that you or the media choose to put them in.

I notice that the tories, who were oh-so-libertarian when they were in opposition, are seeking to ressurect the Communications Bill on the back of the Woolwich incident. Yes, once again, the answer to terrorism immigration benefit fraud whatever woe the politicians can name today, is not cracking down on the perpetrators, but cracking open the privacy of every single one of us, regardless of whether we're even suspected of doing anything wrong.

And it looks like the labour party might support it too  >:(

Same Sh!t, different colour of rosette  :'(
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Offline Tobes

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Re: Yeah....OK !
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2013, 12:07:21 AM »
Quote
I veer towards a prevention is better than cure solution and a zero tolerance of religious shit from any quarter. Better yet, ban any and all religions and religious practices from this country where followers of such religions have reached a certain body-count, here or abroad, in the last 50 years and boot out any bugger who tries to religiously annexe the UK on behalf of their deity of choice.

I don't think I'm overly xenophobic and I know I'm not racist, but I think I'm getting very pissed off with various varieties of fascist bastard holding a blade in one hand and a bomb/cleaver/gun in the other killing people 'because God told him to do it' and he, God's murderer, wants us to do what he says.  I'm similarly getting really angry with every damned MP who treats every murder-by-terrorist as an excuse to push 'The State' one more goose-step towards fascism.

I have a lot of sympathy for those views too, Geoff. Especially paragraph two...

Quote
I notice that the tories, who were oh-so-libertarian when they were in opposition, are seeking to ressurect the Communications Bill on the back of the Woolwich incident. Yes, once again, the answer to terrorism immigration benefit fraud whatever woe the politicians can name today, is not cracking down on the perpetrators, but cracking open the privacy of every single one of us, regardless of whether we're even suspected of doing anything wrong.

And it looks like the labour party might support it too  >:(

Same Sh!t, different colour of rosette

Yup. As we predicted. The fight for real liberty lies not with those aligned to party politics, whips and manifestos. It lies with US.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline boothill

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Re: Yeah....OK !
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2013, 10:27:52 AM »
The conspiracy theorists are already all over this  story. TS'ers will be horrified if Rob joins in here.



ahem ...!      'Law-abiding citizens' have nothing to fear from UK intelligence gathering

: Foreign Sec William Hague

yeah ok...that's alright then I guess, but isn't it time that oor wully realised that each and every time he makes these half a55ed comments, a large proportion of the 'thinking' public merely assume the opposite to be a true statement of fact ? If Mr Vaig told me the sky was blue, I'd have to go outside and verify that it was as he said !
Furthermore...just how long has this 'electronic snooping' been taking place ..wonder if they'd tell me if I made a FOI request ?
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Offline Mart

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Re: Yeah....OK !
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2013, 01:37:53 PM »
If they keep gathering intelligence won't stocks become depleted?
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Yeah....OK !
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2013, 01:51:26 PM »
Anyone watch the Politics Show, I had it on but was doing something else, bloke on there having a right old shouting rant - worth a watch, it was something to do with conspiracy theories but didn't grasp what......I hope our Rob isn't like that.

I'd always imagined him full of it, but not a ranter... Whoever the bloke was he didn't do his cause any good at all.
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