Author Topic: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?  (Read 13835 times)

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Offline Tobes

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2013, 03:02:38 PM »
Its interesting to have a scan through the latest Australian bank fraud stats. Overall card fraud is up this year - though nowhere do the stats break down to show the level of fraud resulting from contactless - though its clear that taken as a whole 'proprietary credit/debit card' fraud is up.

Read into that what you will
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Mart

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2013, 10:12:59 AM »
though its clear that taken as a whole 'proprietary credit/debit card' fraud is up.

Do you think that is because that it is a relatively low risk crime for the perpetrator requiring minimal investment? You can also work from home which is handy given spiralling childcare costs.

You don't need a Ford Transit, hosiery, construction equipment, C4 or shooters, you just need a quick trip to PC World and to watch a couple of videos on Youtube. Presumably.

Crime evolves and keeps pace with the society it takes place in, I'd guess that 'crews' doing banks while someone counts down the police response time (I know) is a dying art and perceived by the latest generation of criminals as a mug's game and it's a long time since a British pirate or highwayman was a household name.

I think that, if you are so inclined, you can commit more crime with circuit boards and a bit of legwork than you can by be learning to turn a Granada on a sixpence, twas ever thus and will be ever so.

Asking the banks to do more is entirely legitimate, it's the 21st century equivalent of building a bigger safe, but there has to be recognition than the criminal fraternity will do their damndest to keep pace and nose ahead where they can.

n the meantime we all take what we think are reasonable precautions.

Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2013, 11:03:25 AM »
Yeh, thinking of re-creating the Elizabethan ruff, making a bit larger and wearing it down the shop, so no-one can see over my shoulder.

And developing an entirely new fashion for wrist ruffs (that rolls of the tongue good, don't it?) so no one can see what's in my hand.

Like my son in law says, whenever someone invents something to make life easier some clot has to figure out a way to spoil it for us.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Jean

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2013, 12:02:53 PM »
I had a campaigning mate about 10 years ago who managed to survive without a Bank Account, plastic or anything else apart from a Post Office savings account. I doubt that he is still managing to live this way.   
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Offline Mickraker

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Contactless encounters - unasked for risk?
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2013, 12:49:30 PM »
My mate told me a story once about a contactless encounter he told his significant half  he had drunkenly and mistakenly had on a night out who left him. He dutily paid up for the contactless encounter over the next 16 years. Technology as ever moves on by the 17th birthday DNA testing was invented. It can at times be wearisome  that technology stuff just ask my mate. Do these cards come with electronic condoms  to prevent premature or accidental ejaculation of funds into someone else's purse :-\
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Offline Tobes

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2013, 01:19:28 PM »
Check your cards and statements people... how many people may have been charged without even being aware, eh?

Quote
Some Marks and Spencer customers have told the BBC of cases where the chain's contactless payment terminals have taken money from cards other than the ones intended for payment.

Card are supposed to be within about 4cm of the front of the contactless terminal to work.

But some customers say payments have been taken from cards while in purses and wallets at much greater distances.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22545804

Quote
A Pret a Manger customer also contacted Money Box to report a payment was taken from her contactless-enabled MBNA visa credit card in the outlet when she intended to pay with a different card.

She says the MBNA card was in her purse around 30-40 cm from the contactless card reader.

And again, she had not realised that card had a contactless facility.


Its so weird that despite the flaws and risks being so damn obvious, that a system like this can be rolled out nationally with barely a pause for thought. Another example of Group Think? Or just another indication, if any was needed, of corporations putting greed ahead of customer security?
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Simon

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2013, 07:49:36 PM »
You can listen to the money box programme where this was discussed here http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01shqc7 (it's the first item in the programme).

It's rather scary that these devices seem to be able to take payments from a card which the user hasn't consciously presented to the device.
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Offline Mart

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2013, 07:55:04 PM »
Loads of people take my feckin money from sodding miles away.

My gas and electric is pinged to bloody France via Exeter and I ain't happy about that.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Spunkymonkey

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2013, 08:31:29 PM »
Contactless cards seem to be less secure than cash - I really can't see the point of them. Are we really that lazy as a society that we can't be bothered to open our wallets now?

I opened a joint account with my girlfriend last month and as a result of this thread asked for the contactless feature to be disabled. The bank clerk told me how wonderful the feature was, but agreed to remove it without to much pressure.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2013, 08:28:28 AM »
I think that they are supposed to be secure in our wallets!   seeing as how I do not have the time to mess around getting new cards, I'll line my purse with a piece of tin foil, will it do the job?

Barring that I'll have to find that sheet of lead.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

ph1lc

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2013, 08:48:28 AM »
I think that they are supposed to be secure in our wallets!   seeing as how I do not have the time to mess around getting new cards, I'll line my purse with a piece of tin foil, will it do the job?


A favourite trick of shoplifters lining their bags with foil to stop the security tags setting off the alarms!

Offline Muggins

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2013, 09:10:46 AM »
Might work then?  Or do you think if I'm found out I might get dragged off?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

ph1lc

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2013, 09:16:16 AM »
Probably carted off for going equipped - they never nick real criminals!!

Offline Muggins

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2013, 05:11:34 PM »
Can see the headlines now.   "Old dear on scooter get arrested for going equipped  - with a two inch square of foil."

Though no doubt TSr's can think of something Sun like instead?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Simon

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2013, 05:37:17 PM »
Can see the headlines now.   "Old dear on scooter get arrested for going equipped  - with a two inch square of foil."

Though no doubt TSr's can think of something Sun like instead?

Scooter looter's foil plot foiled?
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Offline Muggins

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2013, 05:59:51 PM »
 :clap: :clap: :clap:

Good start!  If it helped, I always imagine myself at Aldi when I do this.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Mickraker

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2013, 07:58:51 AM »
More advice about wifi enabled cards  :-\

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240207707/First-Direct-advises-on-customers-on-contactless-payments
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Offline Tobes

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2014, 01:43:32 PM »
My current debit card seems to have bitten the dust. I requested a replacement today and it appears that First Direct may no longer supply a non-contactless replacement. If so, it will be with great reluctance given that I have been a customer for nearly 20 years, I will be closing my account and taking my business to what I believe is the last bank/building soc offering a non-contactless option, Nationwide.

I had a long conversation with the customer services people at First Direct; given that they are normally so well informed, I wa surprised to hear how ignorant they were at some of the basic issues and details around these cards.
1. There as confusion as to the credit limit for each individual transaction ("about £15 was one quote - though I believe it is actually £20)
2. Confusion about how many £20 transactions could be made in quick succession before a PIN would be requested at point of sale (I still haven't had a clear answer on that)
3. Concentration on the fact that is the card was used fraudulently, my money would be reinbursed, whilst ignoring that for me the main 'problem' might be the lump on my head or the stab wonld occasioned by someone mugging me for a wallet knowing that even if it only contains a bank card, its still has contents worth at least £40+

Mind you, I have found the following piece of online information which might be of interest:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Disable-Contactless-Payment-on-Your-Debit-C/

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Jean

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2014, 08:22:00 PM »
I had a campaigning mate about 10 years ago who managed to survive without a Bank Account, plastic or anything else apart from a Post Office savings account. I doubt that he is still managing to live this way.

I spoke to this old friend last week as it happens. He still manages his life using cash but he admits that it gets harder by the day.

From the information you gave me before Tobes, I managed to exchange my card back to a non-contactless replacement with Halifax. I wonder if they have stopped issuing these too? 
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Offline Tobes

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Re: Contactless cards - unasked for fraud risk?
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2014, 08:50:32 PM »
Hello Jean! Well, a bit of good news to round my day off - I wasn't convinced the call handler earlier today knew what she was talking about, so put another call in; it appears I'm going to get a replacement NON contactless card afterall - HURRAH!  :)

And hurrah for First Direct - at least some of the banks seem motivated to give their customers what they want, and perhaps secretly harbour some serious doubts themselves about the numerous flaws this technology presents.

If any of you are reviewing who you bank with, its food for thought - you ought to ask about their policy on contactless and non contactless cards.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'