Author Topic: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2  (Read 72429 times)

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George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #180 on: June 23, 2012, 01:09:37 PM »
The article said there was a Tory leaflet going out to 2000 homes urging people to turn up to meeting on Tuesday. Guess what the leaflet never showed up through my door in Oakhurst. Want to know why - there was no leaflet. Article was just a PR stunt.


Candide7
You are being most kind to the councillors. 
Quote
Ward councillors for St Andrews and Priory Vale will deliver 4,000 letters
If they did do what they threatened to do, then they can produce or publish an exact copy of their letter as evidence. http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm_homes/

Offline sonicated

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #181 on: June 23, 2012, 02:56:44 PM »
Candide7 I fear you may be correct in saying I was hoodwinked. Crest haven't got enough money to put adequate infrastructure in place for this development so it should not go ahead - especially when their past record shows they are incompetent.

At the planning meeting it was explained that the council has painted itself into a corner and wasn't prepared to fight itself out. This shows how weak it is.

There is a possibility that the committee is being very clever and will remove the application due to lack of infrastructure and Cllr. Elliot will be a hero. I sadly doubt this will happen.

The secretary of state for communities and local government, Eric Pickles has said:

"We've promised to use legislation to scrap top-down building targets that are eating up the Green Belt, but I'm not going to make communities wait any longer to start making decisions for themselves".

"It will no longer be possible to concrete over large swathes of the country without any regard to what local people want."

Local people do not want this development so therefore the Government does not support it. If it does go ahead it shows the committee is ignoring what Swindon residents want and the councillors who did not oppose it should not be forgiven.

Cllr. Elliot who made the proposal to approve it has told me that he has a veto over the development. If it does go ahead he is going to be an extremely disliked man by all.

Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #182 on: June 23, 2012, 03:26:59 PM »
Candide7 I fear you may be correct in saying I was hoodwinked. Crest haven't got enough money to put adequate infrastructure in place for this development so it should not go ahead - especially when their past record shows they are incompetent.

At the planning meeting it was explained that the council has painted itself into a corner and wasn't prepared to fight itself out. This shows how weak it is.

There is a possibility that the committee is being very clever and will remove the application due to lack of infrastructure and Cllr. Elliot will be a hero. I sadly doubt this will happen.

The secretary of state for communities and local government, Eric Pickles has said:

"We've promised to use legislation to scrap top-down building targets that are eating up the Green Belt, but I'm not going to make communities wait any longer to start making decisions for themselves".

"It will no longer be possible to concrete over large swathes of the country without any regard to what local people want."

Local people do not want this development so therefore the Government does not support it. If it does go ahead it shows the committee is ignoring what Swindon residents want and the councillors who did not oppose it should not be forgiven.

Cllr. Elliot who made the proposal to approve it has told me that he has a veto over the development. If it does go ahead he is going to be an extremely disliked man by all.

And what magic powers does Cllr Elliot have to veto this?

Fairy Dust?

Is this exclusive to him or can any Cllr have some ?
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline sonicated

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #183 on: June 23, 2012, 03:41:52 PM »
Cllr. Elliot has said on the Priory Vale Conservatives Facebook page:

"I believe it should be up to a unanimous decision by the officers, ward councillors, Chair and Deputy Chair of the Planning Committee in consultation with residents"

However on my request Cllr. Faramarzi commented further:

"Officers, the Chair and the Deputy Chair of the planning committee along with Ward Councillors from Priory Vale and St Andrews Ward will be consulted with and will make the decision together".

The more I read into this the more I see the residents of Swindon being screwed over.

Our councillors need to stand up to the officers. At the moment it appears they are just finding ways to do what they are told.

George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #184 on: June 23, 2012, 03:51:09 PM »
If we step back to Nov 2010 the link put this out people can see the lifestyle choice they made has deteriorated as more properties are squeezed in the area.
Quote
"A planner told me that a number of options were being considered: widening of Oakhurst Way, opening up Adinsall Road and also Lady Lane.
http://www.swindonlink.com/news/tadpole-lane-development-is-not-a-fait-accompli-says-oakhurst-resident


Mr Grumble

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #185 on: June 23, 2012, 05:06:46 PM »
@sonicated

Quote
Cllr. Elliot who made the proposal to approve it has told me that he has a veto over the development. If it does go ahead he is going to be an extremely disliked man by all

sonicated, what evidence do you have of Cllr Elliott saying this?  What kind of veto would he have over the development when he is just under two months into being a councillor?  As you're fairlly new to this thread you may not realise that evidence is really important to prove what we all say.

So show us the money please?





Offline Tea Boy

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #186 on: June 23, 2012, 05:37:01 PM »
Sounds to me like North Swindon Tories are now in full retreat, attempting a desperate rear gusrd action to save their tattered reputations.

They are being extra helpful to their ward constituents, picking up sd many little day to day errands from the priory vale facebook site. Calling in missed bins, promising extra grass cutters etc. Not thatt residents can do that of course.

I suspect cllr. Elliot and his other Tory colleagues I
Are willing to say whatever it takes to make this look like he in in charge, knew what he was doing and is listening to people's concern.


Problem is most people just don't believe them
Once a hypocrite always a hypocrite.
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Offline sonicated

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #187 on: June 23, 2012, 06:22:04 PM »
sonicated, what evidence do you have of Cllr Elliott saying this?  What kind of veto would he have over the development when he is just under two months into being a councillor?  As you're fairlly new to this thread you may not realise that evidence is really important to prove what we all say.

So show us the money please?


Straight after the meeting I bumped into him in ASDA (I walked out at recess) and asked him the outcome. He said if all ward councillors did not agree that the infrastructure was in place it would be rejected. Is that not an implied veto?

He's changed it slightly on the Facebook page (quoted above) to say he "believes it should be a unanimous decision" which implies a veto if his belief is right.

On their Facebook he also adds "I will check on the legalities of this though".

I would find it comical that he doesn't appear to know exactly what he proposed but the impact is too great to laugh about.

Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #188 on: June 23, 2012, 06:56:30 PM »
@ Sonicated

The reality is that all the Tory Councillors come out of this extremely badly. All Six councillors for Priory Vale and St Andrews misled their electorate in their election campaigns (re: your Twitter conversation with Cllr Famarazi). While I find it incredible that Cllr Elliott would take it upon himself to be the proposer of the dagger blow - being the only Oakhurst resident -when there were plenty of East Swindon councilors who could have done the honours, all the Tory Councillors to a man and woman said it should be approved or there was no choice in approving it. I make no distinction between Edwards, Famarazi, Elliott, Tomlinson, Friend and Heaton-Jones or Doreen Dart, who allegedly represents the residents of Blunsdon.

It is garbage and won't wash. The same Council was happy wasting £200k on an appeal at Coate where there was zero chance of winning because development at Commonhead was in the adopted development plan for Swindon. TF on the other hand is not in any adopted plan for Swindon, only in the draft core strategy which the SOS said only carries limited weight in decision making. The only appeal the Council has won recently is at Hook where the same argument as for TF applies i.e. development not in adopted plan.
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Mr Grumble

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #189 on: June 23, 2012, 07:17:33 PM »
@Candide7

Quote
all the Tory Councillors to a man and woman said it should be approved or there was no choice in approving it. I make no distinction between Edwards, Famarazi, Elliott, Tomlinson, Friend and Heaton-Jones or Doreen Dart, who allegedly represents the residents of Blunsdon.

Totally agree with you Candide7.

Look, planning law does not contain a veto.  If you recommend something for approval then it's approved.  Planning conditions are not enforceable only planning obligations.  Not one councillor applied a planning obligation on this application and the conditions are already met.  The 106 package fulfils the planning requirements so how can a Council win an appeal on conditions that have been satisfied before you've even begun.

Either Cllr Elliott and his also-rans are barking or they've committed a Macbeth-ian act on the residents of North Swindon - take your pick?  That's the trouble when some in the community know more about planning than the elected representatives who the 15% of Priory Vale residents decided to put an X against. 

If Cllrs Elliott, Faramarzi, Tomlinson, Heaton-Jones, Edwards and Friend think they can pull the wool over the residents eyes then they have another think coming.


MrGrumpy

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #190 on: June 23, 2012, 07:21:09 PM »
15%?  So 85% of the Priory Vale electorate did not bother to vote or voted for someone else....just shows how representative our elected representatives are with such a clear mandate of support from the community!

Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #191 on: June 23, 2012, 07:25:29 PM »
@ George Elliott

Thanks for posting that Swindon Link article up. It is very enlightening. It shows that Justin Tomlinson did indeed support the inclusion of Tadpole Farm, albeit reluctantly, into the draft core strategy at the 1700 house level. He has personally denied voting for it to me in e-mail but his quotes in the Link article suggest he did not oppose development at TF at the critical time early in the development of the draft core strategy.

The article also illuminates the sham of the Crest application and particularly their Transport Assessment. ORA had the TA independently assessed and the chief conclusion was that the Crest application is dangerously over-reliant on the delivery of the Rapid Bus Transit (RBT). You remember now - this is the thing Crest propose to deliver instead of paying for the upgrade of the Purton-Iffley road (Thamesdown Drive- Great Western Way link). We learn now there is no funding for the delivery of the RBT and consequently it is unlikely to go ahead. It can't go down Oakhurst Way as there are no bus lanes and there is only £60k in the Crest application for 2 zebra crossings (just to slow the RBT down!!!). You could not make this lot up, but it is true. The whole application and response to it by the council and its officers is literally a farce...
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Smiler

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #192 on: June 23, 2012, 07:30:02 PM »
@George Elliot - thanks for the link to the Swindon Link article.  It looks like someone got the outcome of TF right at the time.

http://www.swindonlink.com/news/tadpole-lane-development-is-not-a-fait-accompli-says-oakhurst-resident

Quote
Justin Tomlinson, MP said to the Swindon Link, "if I could find a way to stop the Crest development at Tadpole Lane, I would. But they own the land and are working on proposals for it. It seems to me that this is the final phase of the northern development and the new planning legislation introduced by the coalition government gives local authorities and residents a much greater say in what kind of development might take place."
 
But Stephanie Exell is clear in her view that, under the new planning rules, resident's do not have to accept the Crest proposal. "Tadpole Farm was not part of the North Swindon master plan and just because a developer has bought the land doesn't mean that they have the right to build houses on it.
 
"Justin could argue very powerfully that we don't need these homes in the new Swindon core strategy. I'm very surprised that the MP for North Swindon seems to be capitulating to Crest so quickly. A lot of worried residents would be assured if he just said 'no development."


Does it sound like JT already knew what the outcome of TF would be?  Forward wind one year and 7 months to June 2012.  Was he ever against this development at all?


Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #193 on: June 23, 2012, 07:42:17 PM »
@ Mr Grumble

If the RBT is so critical to the delivery of the TF development as per the Crest proposal to make it sustainable why were planning obligations not enforced by Councillors and Officers of Swindon?

Planning conditions are worthless.
Francois-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) - I hate what you say but I defend your right to say it

The opinions and views expressed are my own and are not those of any organisation I belong to

Mr Grumble

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #194 on: June 23, 2012, 08:07:07 PM »
@ Candide7

What an interesting question.  Where did it say that the delivery of the RBT was critical?  Where's the evidence for this?  I'm a grumbling old man who needs the digestive crumbs of fact!

I'm a rather fat feathery owl called Sage,
I'm not at all happy in fact in a rage,
It's bad enough having one's home all upset,
But to make matters worse all my feathers are wet


Oh a planning obligation could enter the political dictionary as something critical that the Council takes no notice of.


George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #195 on: June 23, 2012, 08:34:32 PM »
I am not supporting this but believe it to be a fair question why can't Lady Lane be used for a BRT rather than Oakhurst Way?
Quote
Lady Lane is set to remain closed

 LADY Lane looks set to stay closed for good.

Despite opposition from two parish councils, the Cabinet voted last night to keep the road closed indefinitely.
 
Lady Lane links Blunsdon St Andrew and Haydon Wick parishes and was closed in August to allow services to be put in for a new primary school.
 
Council officers then decided to keep the road closed, saying this had always been part of the authority's long-term plan.
 
Speaking last night, councillor Dr Owen Lister (Con, Abbey Meads) said: "Closing Lady Lane will have the effect of cutting the people of west Blunsdon from the new district centre."
 
However, council highways officer Ioan Rees said: "This road is a country lane which is now in an urban area. It carries 750 vehicles at its peak hour but is only about four metres wide at its most narrow and has no pavement."
 
Mr Rees said most nearby residents would suffer only minor inconvenience from the road's continued closure.


Nearby residents I do not think there are any on Lady Lane as far as I am aware.   http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/archive/2002/11/07/Wiltshire+Archive/7335020.Lady_Lane_is_set_to_remain_closed/

Another article 
Quote
Vital traffic link is to remain closed

 LADY Lane in Blunsdon is to be turned into a cycle route despite continuing calls for it to re-open to traffic.
 
The road was initially closed in May last year to allow services to be put in for a new primary school.
 
It was due to re-open in August but councillors voted instead to keep the road closed for good.
 
They said that this had always been part of the long-term plan for the area, but that move was opposed by both Blunsdon St Andrew and Haydon Wick parish councils who said that Lady Lane provided a vital link between the two areas.
 
Now the North Swindon Development Company has submitted a planning application to downgrade the road permanently to a cycle route.
 
The application concerns a 750-metre stretch which would connect with Swindon Council's existing cycle network at Ash Brake, St Andrews Ridge and in Haydon Wick.
 
The project would include resurfacing and landscaping.

Ward councillor for the area Owen Lister (Con) said he still believes Lady Lane should be re-opened to cars.
 
He said: "I have thought all along that the closure of Lady Lane was quite ridiculous and this is just another part of a very strange saga.
 
"The fact of the matter is that this is an old road and it's been there for a very long time connecting Tadpole Lane down into Haydon Wick.
 
"The only alternative road is now Saltzgitter Drive which is a twisty-turny road through a housing estate.
 
"It now being used increasingly by people who want to come from the Abbey Meads and Haydon area through to Tadpole Lane and avoid the A419.
 
"They have built nearly 70km of cycleways in this town and how many cyclists use them?
 
"I would still re-open it given half a chance it has to be the most sensible option."
 
But residents who live nearby Lady Lane have welcomed the closure.

John Booth, from the Lady Lane Campaign Group, said: "It's always been in the plan many people who live on Lady Lane bought their houses on the understanding that the lane would be closed.
 
"We used to have big trucks going down there but now it is a lot quieter and there is less pollution," Mr Booth added.


http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/archive/2003/04/24/Wiltshire+Archive/7319368.Vital_traffic_link_is_to_remain_closed/

Offline Muggins

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #196 on: June 23, 2012, 09:01:40 PM »
A bit of the old Lady Lane did get closed and remains closed to traffic and is in the strategic cycle network.  It's right opposite Asda, to the left and across the (new) road from the Blunsdon Arms, I think the old original hedgerow hides it from view but it is still there.   

The old Lady Lane came down to meet the Blunsdon Road, remnants of which are also still there and a cycle route - by The Manor pub and onto Thames Ave.  You can follow the old hedgerow there along the side of ASDA.   I can't remember if there was any intention to close the other half of Lady lane from where it starts at it's junction with the old Blunsdon Hill to where joins Tadpole Lane. I can look at the maps but fairly sure that was never going to be closed all the way.

The reason for the closure of the bit they did, if I remember rightly, was to stop rat running  because back in the day, the cars would reach the Lady Lane junction with Blunsdon Hill before they got to the first roundabout on Thamesdown Drive and nip down there instead. 
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #197 on: June 23, 2012, 09:07:22 PM »
If it was a BRT there would not be rat running by cars.

Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #198 on: June 23, 2012, 09:29:07 PM »
@ Mr Grumble

Re: RBT

http://www.swindonlink.com/news/community-groups-insulted-by-councils-tadpole-farm-dealings-
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MrGrumpy

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #199 on: June 23, 2012, 10:28:48 PM »
Speaking of BRT, just noticed on the ORA blog a briefing on the whole BRT issue...

http://oakhurstresidents.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/bus-rapid-transit-critical.html