Author Topic: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2  (Read 86234 times)

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Offline the gorgon

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #140 on: June 20, 2012, 06:19:39 PM »
@ the Gorgon

"I'll give one top tip to all opponents of ANY greenfield development - think long and hard before mounting a 'build elsewhere' campaign, people will see that as NIMBYism (because it is) and as a result you'll lose support.  This is especially true if several members of the planning committee represent wards adjoining/in the area you say should be developed instead"

I think you will find that the Tadpole Farm campaign has been focused on the infrastructure argument at TF. Personally, not speaking with my ORA hat on, I find it bemusing that the council is choosing to build houses in the less sustainable parts of Swindon rather than where all the infrastructure is. But hey I'm a NIMBY!  :wink:

Good to know that the campaign did that, what one feels personally is one thing but what a campaign does is another matter.

Offline Muggins

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #141 on: June 20, 2012, 06:30:36 PM »
Ah, ah, the old conflict of interest, but then surely they would not get elected to the committee by the membeers. Or if they did it would be a waste of their time. To be honest if they did not subscribe to the aims of the group, they shouldn't be on it at all. But just because they are a member of a political party does not means they would subcribe to every view that Party held. Not every party member is an active one. I wrote what I did because, in one of the recent posts it said that no member of a political party could be a member, I think they meant no councillor.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #142 on: June 20, 2012, 07:10:31 PM »
“I hope Swindon’s planning committee consider the wider implications of Tadpole Farm so that the case for unnecessary development at Ridgeway Farm can be strongly argued at the planning appeal in May.”
Cllr Nick Martin, 16th March 2012 Swindon Link

"First statement of useful fact – Roderick Bluh, Leader of the Conservative Group, hasn’t discussed this application with me, hasn’t made any points to me about this application or hasn’t put any influence on me in any shape or form or publication on the subject of this planning application.  I therefore declare entirely and completely that I am unfettered in any views I take tonight and in the way I vote tonight.  I think that’s important for a member of the planning committee to state given some of the influences that have been brought to bear on some of the members which I have been interested to read and astonished me".
Cllr Nick Martin, 12th June, Planning Committee Member deciding on Tadpole Farm
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Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #143 on: June 20, 2012, 08:13:53 PM »
I have been absolutely fascinated by a couple of lines in the speech Cllr Famarazi gave at the Planning Committee on 12th June. I have highlighted and underlined them below because they raise interesting questions:

At the Planning Committee Cllr Faramarzi followed the ward councillors of St Andrews (Cllr Vera Tomlinson, Cllr Peter Heaton-Jones and Cllr Mary Friend).  Two of these councillors had remarked that the residents were against the development but with a heavy heart they would have to support approval. Cllr Faramarzi began by saying that there are infrastructure deficits in roads and schools:

"I am addressing you this evening to represent and speak on behalf of my ward Priory Vale and the people who live in it.  What I would like to say to you has been well thought through and discussed with residents at great length...., residents have told me that they are worried about an increase of traffic on Thamesdown Drive, Oakhurst Way, Mead Way and into and out of Blunsdon.  They are concerned that the only money allocated in the Priory Vale ward, and this is vital so please listen to what I am saying, the only money allocated in Priory Vale ward is for two crossing on Oakhurst Way.  Is this really going to help with 1,700 more households feeding into that road? 
They also worry that there will be insufficient school places"....there "just doesn’t seem to be enough consideration in this application, despite what Officers have told us tonight, ....given to the wider infrastructure need for a development of this size.  It’s huge, it’s absolutely huge.  For these reasons I and the residents of Priory Vale are against this application – I have been since day one when I was merely a resident in the area and I am against this application as a ward councillor."

Cllr Faramarzi makes reference to the unequivocal view of ORA:

"Up until this weekend I have shared the views of Oakhurst Residents’ Association who’ve been quoted as saying that almost 100% residents in Oakhurst were against development in Tadpole Farm and that the application at this time needs to be scrapped."

Having highlighted the residents' opposition to the development and demonstrated a clear understanding of the infrastructure deficits of the application Cllr Faramarzi changes thought to losing on appeal and the loss of S.106 monies for a wider area:

"But I am, however, also aware of the consequences of this not going ahead tonight which Cllr Tomlinson and Cllr Friend from St Andrews ward have highlighted.  It is my understanding that should we lose such an appeal there would be no obligation upon the developers to take residents' views into account or to provide S.106 monies to mitigate the impact of the development on the wider area."
This leads to the conclusion that: 
"My number one priority as a councillor is to do the right thing for my residents and they have spoken to me, and they told me loud and clear they are against this application. They don’t believe that the development should go ahead.  However, I am minded to mention the consequences of a refusal. Will they be more damaging to the residents and give us no ability to influence the development and, if so, I urge the committee to take that into consideration."

Cllr Faramarzi tweeted on 13th June 2012:

"we worked hard to get the best result for residents.  Unfortunately there were no grounds in that report to refuse." 

My two questions are:
1. What happened at the weekend before the Tuesday of the planning committee to change Emmas' mind? Furthermore, is it conceivable that "whatever" changed Emmas' mind may have also changed Toby Elliott's mind and Doreen Dart's mind - the two North Swindon councillors on the planning committee? Has this slip of the tongue let the cat out of the bag? Is it conceivable that the Tory councillors who were waverers - excluding Nick Martin whose vote was a gimme - had a pre-meeting where they were told what the party line was?
2. In her speech Emma distinctly states that there is not enough consideration in the application for infrastructure despite what the Officers report says. However, the next day she tweets there were no grounds in the Officers report to refuse. Does that mean the Officers report should be followed without question even if you don't agree with it?
Francois-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) - I hate what you say but I defend your right to say it

The opinions and views expressed are my own and are not those of any organisation I belong to

Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #144 on: June 21, 2012, 06:25:45 AM »
On Nov 29th 2011 Cllr Sewell , planning committee member said...

I do have real concern however re the highway infrastructure and its ability to cope with development . I am not satisfied by the proposed mitigation package. I’d rather have further  investigation on primary access via Croft Road. I do think that much more work could have been done exploring alternative sites and further  engagement with residents to seek their views .  I’d rather see alternative sites re examined for the permanent placement of this school.  “

Another example of members who raise significant concerns on basic infrastructure but fail to challenge officers advice.

Officers used scare tactics to convince elected members that the school was needed. Their own data contradicted them. The same Officers are withholding school numbers for 2012 which will show the reality. 

Swindon is paying the price for an Officer Class who believe that they can do no wrong and that their advice is unassailable and will seldom if ever be publicly challenged by elected members.

If elected members are gullible enough to follow their advice blindly they need to realise the consequences.

Lemmings ....
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #145 on: June 21, 2012, 08:25:38 AM »
Cllr Nicky Sewell comes out of the Croft Situation is no better a light than Cllr Vera Tomlinson, Cllr Emma Faramarzi, Cllr Toby Elliot do with Tadpole. It is a bad day for Swindon when counciillors from two parts of Swindon are perceived by local residents to be competing to play the politics role of the Three Stooges.

Obviously the other two are Cllr Dave Wood and Cllr Stan Pajack. Nothing surprises me at all in Swindon politics. Libdems after the tuition fiasco are perceived by all but their ilk to be lower than Lino and two faced. Why would it not surprise me if in the shabby way politics is now being done in Swindon that Libdems are put in charge of applying and monitoring the code of conduct for councillors behaviour.


George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #146 on: June 21, 2012, 08:41:51 AM »
Latest post ORA blog http://oakhurstresidents.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/letter-from-north-swindon-mp-at.html

If you see Mr Grumpy let him know it's posted up on TS

Does this mean Justin Tomlinson MP and Former 10 years service Cllr Justin Tomlinson ( AKA while I was on SBC I voted for every Tory council tax increase since Labour were kicked out Tomlinson) did not object to planning officers about development at Tadpole?

Quote
No Quote at Planning Committee - Mr Tomlinson, MP
It does not appear that Mr Tomlinson, MP is mentioned in the planning officer's committee report.  A text search of the electronic copy of the report (over a hundred and twenty pages long) does not seem to find a single reference to him.

Mr Tomlinson did not attend the planning committee but the planning officer reports a letter as follows:

Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #147 on: June 21, 2012, 09:58:05 AM »
Cllr Nicky Sewell comes out of the Croft Situation is no better a light than Cllr Vera Tomlinson, Cllr Emma Faramarzi, Cllr Toby Elliot do with Tadpole. It is a bad day for Swindon when counciillors from two parts of Swindon are perceived by local residents to be competing to play the politics role of the Three Stooges.

Obviously the other two are Cllr Dave Wood and Cllr Stan Pajack. Nothing surprises me at all in Swindon politics. Libdems after the tuition fiasco are perceived by all but their ilk to be lower than Lino and two faced. Why would it not surprise me if in the shabby way politics is now being done in Swindon that Libdems are put in charge of applying and monitoring the code of conduct for councillors behaviour.

And guess who the new chair of Standards is.... Lib Dem Cllr Wood. 

I don't believe that I have heard his voice in any Council Meeting I have attended... and God help me... but there have been many of those...
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Mellon

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #148 on: June 21, 2012, 01:27:57 PM »
Latest post ORA blog http://oakhurstresidents.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/letter-from-north-swindon-mp-at.html

If you see Mr Grumpy let him know it's posted up on TS

Does this mean Justin Tomlinson MP and Former 10 years service Cllr Justin Tomlinson ( AKA while I was on SBC I voted for every Tory council tax increase since Labour were kicked out Tomlinson) did not object to planning officers about development at Tadpole?

Quote
No Quote at Planning Committee - Mr Tomlinson, MP
It does not appear that Mr Tomlinson, MP is mentioned in the planning officer's committee report.  A text search of the electronic copy of the report (over a hundred and twenty pages long) does not seem to find a single reference to him.

Mr Tomlinson did not attend the planning committee but the planning officer reports a letter as follows:



why would he need to go to the planning committee? he has already attended an official unofficial meeting with the developers while he was a ppc on the 25th of January 2010 with Vera Tomlinson, Rod Bluh and Peter Greenhalgh and surprise surprise no minutes were taken for the meeting. there was also a second meeting took place on the 3rd of december 2010 but Justin wasnt there.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/north_swindon_developments#incoming-133223
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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #149 on: June 21, 2012, 02:38:14 PM »
Did the council have difficulty finding a quill pen?

Quote
No minutes were taken for either meeting.

Offline Muggins

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #150 on: June 21, 2012, 06:26:18 PM »
I know you shouldn't have to, but why the heck are you not taking minutes for yourself, and if they need to be agreed or validated, (which they would because whoever said whatever, would deny it if you didn't) then send them on to independent people who were there and ask them to agree them. it's much better than each of you having say individually.   Although it's very interesting!
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Mellon

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #151 on: June 21, 2012, 07:59:04 PM »
Because muggins, to the best of my knowledge those meetings weren't public.
"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the world together."

Offline Muggins

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #152 on: June 22, 2012, 07:58:51 AM »
Ok, so if they were Borough only meetings, isn't there some rule/law/policy that states every meeting should be recorded and the content be made available to the public - ah, just realised that would be no good.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Smiler

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #153 on: June 22, 2012, 09:48:42 AM »
So let's look at a possible, maybe scenario - Tom junior is the Conservative PPC and an Abbey Meads ward councillor, Tom senior is also an Abbey Meads ward councillor.  They sit down with Tadders developers in January 2010. 

There was an expectation that the blu party will form the Government in May 2010.  I have read on talkswindon about Rod's Christmas message.  But I can't find it?

Is there a discussion amongst the blu crowd about the possible demise of the RSS?  Weren't the Tories leading on this  - I think there was an article with the PPCs on it, but can't find that either?

How do you stop the loss of votes from the EDA residents? How much of the EDA would affect the vote in the North and the South come to think of it?  There were more councillors at risk in the EDA than the North where there were only three councillors to protect (this strategy has begun to fail because Julian Price was elected this year).

Um...problem with the EDA, maybe a vote loser but light on the horizon as RSS could be waning?  Do you turn to an updated core strategy to fill the void of the loss of the RSS stuff?  When do the blu crowd start talking about this in their full court?  February or March 2010? After the meeting with the developers clarifies their minds? Silly question but why doesn't Cllr Stoddy go to the meeting if it's the Abbey Meads ward councillors?

When is the content of the revised core strategy firmed up concerning Tadders and EDA?

Very implausible, ambition wouldn't come before the voters in North Swindon or the EDA?  Is there any evidence that Tom junior has ever been interested in the detail of planning matters or just the inappropriate thing?

Whilst the concrete jungle was erected in the 10 years he was a ward councillor what was he doing?


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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #154 on: June 22, 2012, 11:08:31 AM »
Quote
Whilst the concrete jungle was erected in the 10 years he was a ward councillor what was he doing?

Is this question about the role he had in Conservative Futures (Young Tories). Did he bet on himself that he would be Prime Minister before he was 40 which I cannot find mentioned in his bio on the Tory website, but the Tory Futures bit is mentioned. On another point I never knew the new library extension to the old reference library had so many who claimed it as theirs. Now there was I believing that  Rod Bluh had built the new Central Library- silly me.
Quote
Abbey Meads Ward - Justin was elected as a Councillor to represent the Abbey Meads ward in 2000, re-elected 2002 & 2006, each time with an increased majority. Justin's final term as a Councillor ended on the day he was elected to become the MP. During the 10 years Justin was a Councillor he had a 100% attendance record and never claimed a penny in expenses.

Swindon Borough Council - Justin served as the Cabinet Member for Culture, Leisure & Recreation for 4 years. During this time he chaired projects including:
 •The new £10m central library, on time and on budget
•Set up successful Sports Forum, involving 60+ sports groups
•Invested in a variety of new leisure facilities across the leisure centres
 
Conservative Future - In 2003, Justin was the National Chair of Conservative Future.


Outside Of Politics

Justin is a huge fan of football! As a fan, he regularly watches Swindon Town and Swindon Supermarine FC who he has also helped raise much needed sponsorship money. Justin still regularly plays football including for the Parliamentary football team. Justin is also a veteran of Football Manager having owned all the versions since the original Championship Manager!
 
Prior to being elected as an MP Justin owned local company TB Marketing for 10 years, having formerly been a nightclub manager after graduating with a Business Degree from Oxford Brookes University.

Justin is engaged to Jo Wheeler who owns 'We Love Pets' a pet care company that covers Wiltshire & Berkshire, and they are planning to marry in Parliament in June 2012.




Offline Outoftowner

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #155 on: June 22, 2012, 11:39:15 AM »
About Justin Tomlinson's proposed wedding

Quote
they are planning to marry in Parliament in June 2012.

How Naff is that??!!!!
What's it all about?

George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #156 on: June 22, 2012, 11:45:52 AM »
As Mr Grumpy has not posted the ORA blog into this thread. I have taken the liberty and posted the latest exciting instalment of the Tadpole  Farm Saga planning meeting.
Quote
At the start of the Planning Committee, the Chairman of the committee, Cllr Colin Lovell (St Margaret and South Marston), passes over to Mr Awojobi, the Borough Solicitor.  The first question ORA members may want to ask:  What is the normal custom and practice of the Planning Committee for who speaks first after the Chairman introduces the application? Is it the Planning officer or the Borough Solicitor? http://oakhurstresidents.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/quotes-from-officers-at-planning.html
:coffee:

Offline the gorgon

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #157 on: June 22, 2012, 01:31:49 PM »
About Justin Tomlinson's proposed wedding

Quote
they are planning to marry in Parliament in June 2012.

How Naff is that??!!!!

The man was a nightclub manager and ran a company called Tuberculosis Marketing what do you expect  :wink:

Offline Outoftowner

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #158 on: June 22, 2012, 01:44:46 PM »
If I'd supported a kid of mine through university and he then went on to become a nightclub manager, a "marketing" man  and then worm his way into politics, I'd slap his legs.
What's it all about?

Offline sonicated

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #159 on: June 22, 2012, 01:52:09 PM »
The Sanctuary of St Mary Undercroft looks okay to me!

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/paullew/3468615879/

Now having a stag do in Prague - that's not classy at all.