Author Topic: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2  (Read 63373 times)

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Offline the gorgon

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2012, 09:41:07 AM »
Have little wander around their web site, after much looking I found that Grosvenor Place is at Tadpole Coner, where-ever that may be, being 'off plan' whatever that means, and 'sold' as beign between the bustling town and the countryside, so i take it it's somwhere right over on the edge by Tadpole Lane, could it be that although its on the edge fo the countryside now, it proabably won;t be whent heya start sellign the rest?   Developers are naughty like that you know. 

http://www.crestnicholson.com/grosvenorplace/latestnews/Launch-of-Grosvenor-Place-builds-on-Crest-Nicholsons-Swindon-succes

I note you can also search their site by housing proximity to any given school.

They might well have been part of the Consortium at Northern Development, but they didn't build that many houses until they got near Asda. or at least no more than others.


I'm going to put my cynic hat on  ;D

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Crest didn't build anything near the number of homes they originally planned to, land is far more valuable when there is planning permission for houses.  Doesn't pay to build too early either, especially when the housing market is going nowhere.

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2012, 09:53:47 AM »
Quote
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Crest didn't build anything near the number of homes they originally planned to, land is far more valuable when there is planning permission for houses.  Doesn't pay to build too early either, especially when the housing market is going nowhere

Did Crest Nicholson sell some land holdings to other builders, who built a higher number of houses on them, than Crest had planned to build?

Offline Muggins

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2012, 10:05:23 AM »
Back when ND was being planned, the housing market was no where near as bad as now.  Most of this side - Abbey Meads was 3 & 4 bed detached, and they were selling like hotcakes although the urban myth was that they were not - that was nonsense - they were! This changed towards the end of that phase although it was close to here (Penhill-Seven Fields) not because of the financial thing, becasue it was still pretty goos then, but because the government wanted more houses more tightly crammed in to meet need and 'affordable housing' became the in thing. 

As that development was going on they were only at the planning stage of what became Priory Vale (i.e. they knew which bits would be housing/school/retail, but didn't actaully know the street layout) so by the time it came to action plans there, packed in 35 to the acre was the norm.  There was some sort of control on making sure one area was developed before starting on another, it wasn't perfect, but it did sort of work.  if that same control was in now, they would have to finish Wichelstowe before any other went under the digger.   Wish I hadn't said that now, I've come over all angry.

As far as I know only one developer bought land started to build and then gave up and sold out to another to complete his build, there wasn't financial constraits, but I was told by an employee, the guy hated the site, he'd had nothing but trouble with it and I think we might have had something to do with that, pity really he seemed a decentish developer - smallish family firm, the name of which defeats me, but I haven't seen him back in Swindon since (or before!).
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Offline the gorgon

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2012, 10:15:40 AM »
Quote
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Crest didn't build anything near the number of homes they originally planned to, land is far more valuable when there is planning permission for houses.  Doesn't pay to build too early either, especially when the housing market is going nowhere


Did Crest Nicholson sell some land holdings to other builders, who built a higher number of houses on them, than Crest had planned to build?


Interestingly I've managed to find some figures, I wonder how they compare with what was actually built!

The NSD covered (at time of application) roughly 1,500 acres (of which Crest owned 580 acres).  10,000 homes were to be build on 740 of these acres, plus 123 acres employment land, 223 for parks and playing fields,42 for the district centre.

I wonder if people know that as early as 1978 companies were trying to allocate land to the north of Swindon for development?

Interesting article, shame I can't see beyond the first page as it's a pay to view site http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02697458708722681


Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2012, 11:22:55 AM »
There are various conditions attached to the Tadpole Farm development. Thames Water have stated that no more than 300 houses can be occupied before March 2015 because the waste water network needs to be upgraded. Phase 1 is 900 houses to be completed in 2020. It is after that stage that the link to the A419 that up to this point is for construction traffic only should become open to cars from the development as well. However this will require signficant investment from the Council. This was one of the real concerns as this road is not guaranteed to happen in the Crest Application. If it doesn't happen then all the traffic from the development will be using Tadpole Lane and Oakhurst Way exclusively with no relief to the North.

The primary school if it happens will be built in Phase 2 (after 2020) but if you read the Planning Officers report the school is not guaranteed either. The report says the developer will either provide a s106 contribution or build the school (to be decided). Again if the school does not get built every child from that development will have to commute to a primary school (the same for secondary age children since there is no new secondary school provision planned).

There is so much wriggle room in the Crest application that I will be bloody amazed if what we end up in the next decade looks anything like what the Crest application states. I would also go so far to say that the plan for the low density housing is a crock as well. The developer makes much more money with high density development.

If you look at the rollout of the development Crest will probably build a few hundred and then sell the rest on for a very tidy profit. The developers that follow on may have very diferent ideas of what gets built.

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2012, 01:08:12 PM »
http://oakhurstresidents.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/are-you-having-laugh-mr-bluh.html

Offline Techie

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2012, 01:32:36 PM »
My views are that the GWH is not big enough to cater for the population of Swindon. 

Therefore, wouldn’t it be more appropriate to build another hospital - maybe on the Tadpole Farm estate…!
 
The northern sector alone is large enough without having more unsightly houses/rabbit hutches going up!!

Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2012, 02:34:28 PM »
Re: Council "leader" Bluh

His is the sort of leadership style that can cause Libyan or Syrian-style civil unrest. :censored:
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2012, 04:01:41 PM »
Re: Council "leader" Bluh

His is the sort of leadership style that can cause Libyan or Syrian-style civil unrest. :censored:


In my vile opinion the man is bullying, inept berk.  A wasteful leader suffering from vibrant, but delusional and increasingly disconnected and expensive visions for the town which the towns taxpaying residents can no longer afford to bankroll.


There are various conditions attached to the Tadpole Farm development. Thames Water have stated that no more than 300 houses can be occupied before March 2015 because the waste water network needs to be upgraded. Phase 1 is 900 houses to be completed in 2020. It is after that stage that the link to the A419 that up to this point is for construction traffic only should become open to cars from the development as well. However this will require signficant investment from the Council. This was one of the real concerns as this road is not guaranteed to happen in the Crest Application. If it doesn't happen then all the traffic from the development will be using Tadpole Lane and Oakhurst Way exclusively with no relief to the North.


So, the necessary infrastructure for the Tadpole Farm development doesn't exist but unnecessary infrastructure has already been installed in Wichelstowe, (where it will not be needed for a long time and is may yet be dug up and moved), at massive expense to the Swindon taxpayer?



The primary school if it happens will be built in Phase 2 (after 2020) but if you read the Planning Officers report the school is not guaranteed either. The report says the developer will either provide a s106 contribution or build the school (to be decided). Again if the school does not get built every child from that development will have to commute to a primary school (the same for secondary age children since there is no new secondary school provision planned).


Funny, didn't Swindon Borough Council already receive more than £6,000,000 from HMG to build schools  in the North and Centre of Swindon, where pupil demand demonstrably exists....

.....but hasn't that money been diverted into Old Town to build a School at Croft where the pupil demand does not seem to exist and the Chief Executive and Directors of Swindon Borough Council are submitting FOI requests to themselves to prevent the public learning exactly what the demand for school places at the Croft is?

Meanwhile, I'm hearing that only about a dozen applications have been received from parents wishing to place their children at the Croft, but folks from the White Horse Federation, and maybe the council, are desperately trying to recruit applicants. Going door to door?

There is so much wriggle room in the Crest application that I will be bloody amazed if what we end up in the next decade looks anything like what the Crest application states. I would also go so far to say that the plan for the low density housing is a crock as well. The developer makes much more money with high density development.


The final product of anything 'negotiated' by Rod and his Bluhligans, with developers who are equally skillful with contract law and trowel, will look nothing like the vision being presented to the public now.  Once the development gets going, and community centre sized gaps remain unfilled,  it will only be a matter of time before the Toby Elliots, Vera Tomlinsons and Peter Heaton-Wossnames begin wringing their hands and saying how 'utterly disgraceful' it all is but how there is 'nothing we can do' about it.

Hand-wringing will be deployed instead of making frank admissions that none of them knew what they were doing and shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near a planning committee.  Readers shouldn't forget that, in the case of Vera Tomlinson and her MP son Justin, (when he was still a Borough Councillor), in their capacity as Borough councillors had several un-minuted meetings with the developers to, during which they presumably discussed this development in some detail.  Vera, I suggest, should have been allowed nowhere near this decision and her previous dealing with the developers deserves to come under minute public and legal scrutiny.

For a previous recent example of Councillors hand-wringing when developers don't deliver on councillors promises, look no further than Ex-councillor Peter Greenhalgh's angry appearance on BBC Points West to 'explain' why certain useful buildings had mysteriously failed to appear at Wichelstowe. 

That thread is also a good illustration of how Councillors and developers initially lead the public to believe they are getting one thing from one developer, but when the 'thing' is not delivered the public learn, after much hand-wring, wailing and gnashing of Councillors teeth, that it was actually someone else who was supposed to deliver it, but no legal or enforceable mechanism was every put in place to guarantee that the previously unknown-of provider of said 'thing', actually delivered it.

I suggest that not enough councillors have the necessary wit, intelligence or experience to serve effectively on planning committees and, judging by what I've read of their recent work, some of the supporting Council Officers ought to be sacked or demoted to 'junior clerk'.

It's shocking, it ain't getting any better, and won't get any better until the administration is changed to one which will work with, and properly represent, the public which empowers them.




« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 04:56:05 PM by Geoff Reid »

Offline helen thompson

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2012, 04:39:19 PM »
Candide 7
What have lybia  and syria done toyou !. (Mr Blue. sorry about spelling mistake) is a lot worse than them!

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2012, 05:12:58 PM »
From pundit Bluh's column in Adver today -

Quote
I note the comments by other councillors and residents' association spokespersons about Tadpole Farm and I welcome their commitment to the Council's position".


http://oakhurstresidents.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/are-you-having-laugh-mr-bluh.html

Quote
Political columnist (PC) Rod Bluh, in the Adver on 14th June 2012, appears somewhat confused about his role -whether as a PC or as a pundit/raconteur? As a PC he appears to have fallen into the age-old journalistic trap of never allowing the facts to get in the way of a good story.


I rather like the style of the Oakhurst blogger.  Is pundit Bluh having a laugh about the community agreeing with his position?  When has the community ever agreed with him?  Is he going to meet with the thousands of residents in North Swindon who clearly think the blue brigade are a waste of space?

I've heard that the comments flying around in North Swindon about Tomlinson, her friend, Elliott, Edwards, Faramarzi and Heaton-Jones might worry them if they cared in the first place.  The comments might please the Oakhurst Avenger.


Offline Muggins

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2012, 06:29:56 PM »
My views are that the GWH is not big enough to cater for the population of Swindon. 

Therefore, wouldn’t it be more appropriate to build another hospital - maybe on the Tadpole Farm estate…!
 
The northern sector alone is large enough without having more unsightly houses/rabbit hutches going up!!


This was said many times at pre Northern development meetings, every one in fact.  We were told that 30 more acute beds would be enough. That of course was in the old PMH days, then they go and knock that down and put in a new much smaller hospital so add 30 then minus a 100!   We know that there is more care in the community etc.  (and even more cut backs) but the sums on that one don't add up.

Geoff:  "Funny, didn't Swindon Borough Council already receive more than £6,000,000 from HMG to build schools  in the North and Centre of Swindon, where pupil demand demonstrably exists...."

I can't think of any school planned in ND that has not been built, although the promise of no more mobile classrooms seems to have bitten the dust. They don't get over excited about schools, they say that when the community settles down and grows up then there are spare spaces, apparently this is why some school in say West Swindon have now closed or shrunk. 

Talking about housing numbers: At the planning stage it was going to be 3/4 bedroom detached 8/14 to the acre and then less than half way through changes to 35 to the acre. It's fairly obvious that the population in them is going to be vastly more.

Oakhurst and any other community that lies within a stones throw and down hill of the Tadpole Farm development should be looking and beware of the sewer system, look at what happened down this end at Haydon Wick, basically the sewer pipe sizes couldn't take it.  It won't just be more traffic that flows past your door.

Smiler: "Is he going to meet with the thousands of residents in North Swindon who clearly think the blue brigade are a waste of space?"

Well where  :argh: were they on polling day then?   
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2012, 06:43:33 PM »
At the planning committee of June 12th I exercised my democratic right to make a statement to the Planning Committee in relation to Tadpole Farm as follows:

“You have before you an application to build a development of 1700 homes in Tadpole Farm for which no provision for primary education within the development is to be made before the end of phase 2 by which time 950 homes will have been built.

And yet, the Tadpole Farm traffic assessment assumes all primary children will travel to school inside the development.

Officers advise that this application be granted.

Using SBC’s calculations, Tadpole Farm’s 1700 homes will generate 391 Primary Children and 317 Secondary Children.

By the end of phase 1 in 2016, 80 primary and 65 secondary places will be required.
      
By the end of phase 2 in 2020 a further 138 primary and 112 secondary places will also be needed.
 
Taking Primary needs as an eg., Officers (state that new developments typically generate reception age children yet they) have provided no information as to where the 218 TF primary children can be accommodated  before the end of Phase 1 (2016 ) or the end of Phase 2(2020). Nor have they provided any information as to how this is to be funded .

Tadpole Farm is adjacent to Swindon’s Northern Sector.

Having studied and analysed SBC’s admissions data for every primary school in Swindon from 2006 through to 2011 (officers are withholding publication of 2012 data.) and PCT data from every area in Swindon from 2006 to 2015, it is clear that there is already a shortage of provision in the Northern Sector which was predicted by Officers and for which Government funding was sought and granted in 2009.

From this same data, it can be distilled that the areas closest to the Northern Sector namely .Green Meadow/HaydonWick, / Rodbourne Cheney /Moredon and Ferndale are also experiencing capacity issues which are likely continue to 2015 at minimum. 

The Dfe awarded £6,374m to SBC in 2009 on the basis of need in North Swindon (295) Central Swindon (173) and Old Town (13). The Government proviso was that this money could be reclaimed if this award was not in permanent accommodation by Feb 2012.  All £6,374m was allocated to Old Town/Croft in Dec 2009.

It is therefore unlikely that the Government would be willing to fund additional provision in North Swindon when SBC has already decided to use the £6,374m to provide overcapacity in Old Town.

Officers have made no provision for the traffic implications of schooling outside of the development. If children have to travel to school, traffic will increase.

Officers were willing to recommend that Old Town have 2 underutilised 420 pupil schools in 2 years which they predict will fill up over time. Why then are Officers treating Tadpole Farm differently?

There is also the matter of the S106 funding provision for the 2020 Primary School which is not consistent with the funding for East Wichel or indeed the Croft.  Are you satisfied that Officers have negotiated sufficient funds?

Secondary school provision is also at question.

You must ask yourself why Officers have not presented you with sound evidence and yet have recommend approval. 

To approve this application without a clear and viable plan for school place provision will impact schools, pupils, parents and traffic across Swindon. As a member of the planning committee are you willing to take responsibility for this on behalf of all elected members across Swindon?

In summary, a planning application for 1700 homes with no clear education provision or funding to do so and an invalid traffic assessment cannot be sustainable and should be deferred until the appropriate information can be provided and assessed.”


Not one of the planning committee raised a single question as to where the Tadpole Farm children would go to school. 

Yet another episode in the long running series of farces showing each month at the Civic Offices in “the  Planning Committee”….produced and directed by .....
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2012, 07:20:41 PM »
I said:

Quote from: Geoff Reid
"Funny, didn't Swindon Borough Council already receive more than £6,000,000 from HMG to build schools  in the North and Centre of Swindon, where pupil demand demonstrably exists....

.....but hasn't that money been diverted into Old Town to build a School at Croft where the pupil demand does not seem to exist and the Chief Executive and Directors of Swindon Borough Council are submitting FOI requests to themselves to prevent the public learning exactly what the demand for school places at the Croft is?"

To which Muggins replied:

I can't think of any school planned in ND that has not been built,

See Jenny B's post above [post #198 ]

I rest my case.....

...apart from to ask the obvious questions:  If no more schools are needed or planned for North Swindon, why did HMG grant SBC more than £6,000,000 for that purpose and how did that grant, in its entirety, get diverted and funneled into the Croft where SBC is unwilling or unable to prove that a school is needed?

It strikes me that Tadpole Farm and the Croft are now inextricably linked by rivers of money, political hypocrisy and the willful corruption of civic protocols and local democracy....

...and within the civic offices, the term 'Best Practice' has become a very smelly oxymoron indeed.

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2012, 10:16:25 PM »
It isn't all about whether a school has been built the question is how many form entry classes does it have. For example if two or three form entry schools are planned. Capacity soon  becomes the issue if only one form entry schools are constructed. You have a problem and a choice either add more forms  of entry or build another school.

All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2012, 04:08:37 AM »
Just seen this interesting commentary on Oakhurst Residents Association Facebook page:

Tim Coggins ? Oakhurst Residents Association
Can someone tell me who is anti Tadpole farm out of the Priory Vale nominees?
May 3 · Like
Emma Faramarzi
All three of us Tim. Cllr Mark Edwards, Toby Elliott and myself.
May 3 · Like
Tim Coggins
Congratulations to all three of you on your wins!
May 4 · Like
Tim Coggins
I was at the meeting on Tuesday but left after a couple of hours due to the very negative view Cllr. V. Tomlinson was painting. She was against Tadpole Farm but said the committee should vote for it as they have gone so far that Crest would just appeal the next day, win, and then cut all the 106 money and be able to develop what they wanted.

As a resident it was frankly embarrassing that Swindon council was in the position so I left during a recess.

Bizarrely I saw Cllr. Elliot in ASDA later that night who said that "I proposed that if we don't agree to the infrastructure it will be rejected in 3 months time".

Frankly from the evidence heard in the meeting unless a ring road is being built to link to Thamesdown Drive it needs to be rejected. Cllr. Faramarzi almost confirmed this on Twitter:

"far from it Tim. If conditions are not met within the 3 months the planning will be refused" (https://twitter.com/EmmaFaramarzi). She said she would also update her blog today with a full run down but hasn't as of yet.

I tweeted her asking who sets the conditions and who decides if they are met and she worrying replied that she'll blog it when she has the answers.

Meanwhile the Swindon Advertiser is reporting that the officers who will decide. The officers support the application in it's current form.
5 hours ago · Like
Tim Coggins
..I pressed enter by mistake so just to clarify: When I said "Cllr. Faramarzi almost confirmed this on Twitter" I meant that she almost confirmed what Cllr. Elliot said to me, not that a ring road was required. That is my opinion.
5 hours ago · Like
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« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 04:47:56 AM by Candide7 »
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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2012, 06:52:17 AM »
Imported from a new thread again as an edit was posted at 07.20 ish
Quote

Sister has just seen this posted on the priory vale face book site...

 Toby Elliott > Priory Vale, Swindon Wednesday at 20:37

As it seems to have not been reported correctly in some quarters I shall set out what happened last night; a copy of which will be sent to BBC Wiltshire and the Swindon Advertiser.

At the Planning Committee we were presented with a report that unequivocally recommended that planning permission be approved for Tadpole Farm. Committee members were informed, in our pre-meeting briefing, that if the decision was rejected OR deferred then Crest Nicholson would DEFINITELY take the decision to the Planning Inspectorate with a 99% chance of winning. If this appeal was won, the amount of money available to the community would decrease and the planning control taken out of the council’s hands.

This does not mean we could not have refused or deferred, that is up to the Committee, but we have seen first-hand what happens in this instance. Many parts of Priory Vale are testament to what happens when decisions are taken by the Planning Inspectorate rather than the council. Tight roads, lack of parking, a comparatively small amount of green and open spaces plus a lack of amenities.

As outlined last night, I continue to have major reservations about this development. Therefore, I proposed that Crest Nicholson have 3 months to address the issues that have been put forward by residents and councillors, including traffic and school places, if they do not so within the 3 months then planning permission is REMOVED. This was voted through unanimously.

If planning permission is removed, Crest Nicholson is unlikely to challenge this to the Planning Inspectorate as permission had been granted and only removed due to their own failings. Even if they did take it to the inspectorate, Swindon Borough Council would stand a good chance of winning on this basis.

I would now urge all residents of Priory Vale who have concerns to contact their ward councillors, whether that is Priory Vale or St Andrews wards, or Cllr Colin Lovell as the Chair of Planning. It is these councillors (which includes me) who will be putting your concerns forward in the negotiations, in conjunction with the officers.

We are aware of the many concerns people have with this development, so what we need from  :fish:residents is their pragmatic thoughts and solutions for fixing these. For instance, we believe that the traffic load on Oakhurst Way will be significant and detrimental to residents; the current plans to alleviate this with two crossings are insufficient at best. However, what we need to hear from you is suggestions of how YOU would like to see this alleviated. ALL suggestions will be put forward with our own during the negotiations.

I realise that this is not the decision most people wanted, but due to the situation I do believe it is the best decision that could have been taken. Please remember, these negotiations are NOT to discuss monetary contributions, but concerns with the development. Most importantly, if Crest Nicholson do not address concerns that have been put forward the planning permission is REMOVED.


Sis doesn't trust Cllr Elliot so thought that it was best to preserve what's being said, or written for posterity..

As it seems the political fallout from the tadpole farm decision is causing Tories in north Swindon to  now think of what they've done, is it an idea to get all their musings in one place?

With regards to cllr Elliott's facebook post:

What other parts of priory vale have been developed on appeal? I thought all the consequences he mentions like narrow streets and no open spaces was down to planning, not lack of it.

I do hope hes not scaremongering with facts that don't match up to reality?
Looks like arse covering to me, don't think its going to stop residents being angry about this, not if the feelings in the sisters neighbourhood is replicated across the rest of north Swindon
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 07:42:03 AM by George Elliot »

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2012, 07:10:40 AM »
If I have read the two Facebook posts correctly on May 3 or 4 cllr Faramazi is against Tadpole unless a ring road is built?

Cllr Elliot post is a bit of a political "Vicky Pollard" approach yes but, no but ...not against anything. But bless him he want to do the best he can for residents and seems to wan to make it "all motherhood and apple pie" for residents. This can be achieved residents are assured through negotiation (by councillors including the chair of planning) and in my opinion looks like a naive approach to take. If this is a kind of "peace with honour" negotiation between the ward councillors and Crest then appeasing developers after outline planning is approved is certainly in my opinion the wrong way to start negotiation. Never underestimate developers they know that the horse comes before the cart.

Only tiime will tell if as they would have us all believe that it takes an act of political courage and fortitude to sit down with the developer and negotiate the provision of infrastructure  that the council's officers negotiated and recommended be accepted and planning committee has ...erm already agreed to accept them.

Can the local councillors please provide the evidence that this negotiation will deliver more infrastructure £ for £ of developer S106 contribution  in North Swindon than the previous one lost on appeal that they are so frit of repeating. Did some of that S106 find its way into Dorcan, OldTown and West Swindon? Residents may be concerned or wise enough to ask the councillors will all of this S106 be used in and close to Tadpole Farm.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 08:13:10 AM by George Elliot »

Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2012, 08:17:22 AM »
Had to read this a couple of times to make sure...

Cllr  Elliot said

"We are aware of the many concerns people have with this development, so what we need from  :fish:residents is their pragmatic thoughts and solutions for fixing these. For instance, we believe that the traffic load on Oakhurst Way will be significant and detrimental to residents; the current plans to alleviate this with two crossings are insufficient at best. However, what we need to hear from you is suggestions of how YOU would like to see this alleviated. ALL suggestions will be put forward with our own during the negotiations."

What are the Officers for?

If they are so expert ( one so good she thinks that people buy cars to keep as ornaments on their drives.... and yes she is the same 'expert' who stated Marlborough Lane could cope with 1500 cars/hour!) they would have recognised the problems and dealt with it up front before they produced their report.

If this was the real world they would be told to get their act together and do the jobs for which they are handsomely paid.

Who knows... maybe they are so concerned about preventing an appeal in case the inspectorate says that Swindon deserves what it gets if elected members are willing to accept this quality of work from their own staff.

Hopeless and Hapless and then hand it over to Halcrow... who are usually involved in this stuff somewhere...
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Muggins

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2012, 08:44:53 AM »
Again, I'm not saying more schools are not needed, just that the schools they planned at the time, (based on the housing per acre numbers and therefore people living in them), have been delivered, but half way through they changed the density of housing and therefore upped the population expection, you could say by about two thirds, but did not change the plan when it came to other provision like school places.

The moral here is that if you make a twenty or so year advance plan, stick to it or revisit all aspects of it (including off site infrastructure and town wide provison) to cope with said development, when one of the aspects changes.   

If you want a straight opinion based on the above, then they had already built far too many houses in Northern Development, much more than was originally planned for schools, roads, hoptial beds etc the allowances for which were woefully inadequate in the first place and now they are talking about 1,700 more - nuts.   

i.e. essentailly ther is no real planning here, it's just land grabbing with no common sense.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)