Author Topic: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2  (Read 84946 times)

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Offline sonicated

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #220 on: June 25, 2012, 10:23:04 AM »
It's rather unfair to blame officers too, the officers are there to guide them in making the right and legal decisions, there are legal reasons why they can or can't make planning decisions.

Is insufficient infrastructure one?

Mr Grumble

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #221 on: June 25, 2012, 10:37:06 AM »
Hey Muggins - there's a bit of a pattern going on here with your postings on this thread.  We are discussing the facts about what the Tories have actually done in North Swindon and you change the focus every time.  If you are on this thread to be sympathetic or understanding or circumvent the process of what the Tories are doing and have done to the people of Oakhurst then carry on.

Remember Muggins when they come after your butterfly orchard to build on it you may look to people in North Swindon to support you and we won't be here because we will have been driven away by the Tories.  The aim is not to cow the people or the community but to hold the Tories accountable for their actions - what they actually say and what they actually do!

Thing is Muggins if you're here with us to fight for Oakhurst against the Tadpole development and unsustainable development without infrastructure across Swindon then you are welcome with open arms.  But at the moment I am not so sure.

Offline sonicated

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #222 on: June 25, 2012, 10:55:15 AM »
Remember Muggins when they come after your butterfly orchard to build on it you may look to people in North Swindon to support you and we won't be here because we will have been driven away by the Tories.

Sadly it's not just the Tories, all councillors on the planning committee voted for Tadpole Farm. Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat.

George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #223 on: June 25, 2012, 10:59:59 AM »
This cracked me up
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RB - who do those officers answer to ? they answer to the Borough Councillors....

VT ? sometimes.

RB ? if not, they should be taken to task.

VT ? It is alright taking them to task after these events, after you have lost control, sorry Rex I don?t agree with you.

RB ? I appreciate that, I don?t agree with a lot of what you say.

If RB does not know and VT replies sometimes who should take them to task on behalf of the Tories? Perhap they can call for  Cllr Dave Wood Chairman of the Committeeeee! ;D

Offline oldtowner

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #224 on: June 25, 2012, 11:19:21 AM »
http://oakhurstresidents.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/tadpole-farm-north-locality-meeting-7th.html

These two comments have just made sure that future negociations with Crest are going to be interesting

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EF – I might be talking out of turn, but I’ll do it anyway, Crest doesn’t really have a good history, do they, of delivering what they say they will deliver.


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VT – .......... it is such a bad application and Emma, you alluded to the fact that these developers have a very bad name, an extremely bad name in the development and planning world. They have let us so many times in what was the Abbey Meads ward, the northern sector, that quite honestly I wouldn’t trust them with anything.


George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #225 on: June 25, 2012, 11:24:03 AM »
Interesting? No if anthing they will be all the more exciting as one forthright view is exchanged with another, but the public will never know as minutes are not kept of meetings for exchanging information between developers and councillors - apparently.

Mr Grumble

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #226 on: June 25, 2012, 11:37:52 AM »
Interesting? No if anthing they will be all the more exciting as one forthright view is exchanged with another, but the public will never know as minutes are not kept of meetings for exchanging information between developers and councillors - apparently.

Well spotted George.

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VT – Yes, what Crest have said, and believe me I have been to lots of presentations and been in meetings, and God knows what – and Crest have said that if they lose on the night, and they don’t think they will, but if they do and the committee turns it down then yes, they will appeal because they believe they will get permission that way.  But that is sort of the second hurdle – we’ve got to get through this first hurdle, and you know our mission is to try and bring up enough points to persuade the committee to vote against it.  And it is only outline planning permission that they are seeking on the night.  So you don’t get all the conditions and bits and pieces – it is purely do we have permission to build and then the officer will decide what the conditions are. Now, if I was on Planning Committee I wouldn’t vote for that because I think the committee needs to know exactly what they are voting for. 

Would a simple FoI prove you are right or wrong George?  How many meetings has Vera Tomlinson had with Crest and how many have been minuted?

Posterity will prove one thing that a written record either exists or doesn't exist and will demonstrate what VT is saying is fact or fantasy.

I'm sure that residents in Oakhurst would be interested to know whether there are more minutes than meetings or vice-versa.

George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #227 on: June 25, 2012, 11:42:17 AM »
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Yes, what Crest have said, and believe me I have been to lots of presentations and been in meetings, and God knows what[/s] is God knows what a councillorism for unminuted exchange of information?  :-\

Offline sonicated

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #228 on: June 25, 2012, 12:07:21 PM »
Sadly it's not just the Tories, all councillors on the planning committee voted for Tadpole Farm. Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat.

I need to correct myself there, it appears the Lib Dem (Cllr. Sewell) wasn't at the meeting so didn't vote. I walked out in disgust at the recess so didn't witness the voting.

Does anyone know why she didn't attend?

George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #229 on: June 25, 2012, 12:35:57 PM »
No or why the other councillors who did not attend were not there. Cllr Mary Friend contributed with
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MF – I am Cllr Mary Friend and I would just like to say I would like to reiterate everything that my fellow ward councillors have said, and I shall be speaking on Tuesday night because while we were campaigning so many people brought it up on the doorstep.  It shocked me how many people were against it and reading the application there are so many things that are wrong with it for the people that already live in the area.

That word doorstep creeped in there again.


Offline the gorgon

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #230 on: June 25, 2012, 12:55:13 PM »
Hey Muggins - there's a bit of a pattern going on here with your postings on this thread.  We are discussing the facts about what the Tories have actually done in North Swindon and you change the focus every time.  If you are on this thread to be sympathetic or understanding or circumvent the process of what the Tories are doing and have done to the people of Oakhurst then carry on.

Remember Muggins when they come after your butterfly orchard to build on it you may look to people in North Swindon to support you and we won't be here because we will have been driven away by the Tories.  The aim is not to cow the people or the community but to hold the Tories accountable for their actions - what they actually say and what they actually do!

Thing is Muggins if you're here with us to fight for Oakhurst against the Tadpole development and unsustainable development without infrastructure across Swindon then you are welcome with open arms.  But at the moment I am not so sure.

Let me ask you this - did ALL of the people opposing TF give a monkey's when various other unpopular developments in Swindon were being proposed (Coate, Croft, EDA...)? Were they perhaps sitting up in Oakhurst not worried because it wasn't in their backyard?  >:(

Perhaps Muggins is just giving people a large dose of reality? She knows from experience what goes on within the council and how they operate! As much as you might not like what is being said about the council officers it doesn't mean it isn't true.  It could well be that they looked at the plans, looked at the legislation, consulted with external planning law experts and came to the conclusion that if the plans are rejected they will approved on appeal.  Cllrs I guess can look at the bigger picture and decide to reject a proposal.

If I recall correctly the planning officers recommended Coate for approval, planning committee rejected it, government approved it - unfortunately the planning officers were correct weren't they? 

That doesn't mean you shouldn't oppose a development, what it means is you'd better find really really good arguments against the development, gather a lot of public support and fight really hard.  Public support is one thing the save coate campaign had, enough to make the council reject the plans.  This is one area where Oakhurst has a problem I fear, I was speaking to someone over the weekend* about TF and this is roughly what they told me "they didn't seem to care about green fields or road congestion when they were buying their nice new house".

* I'm one of those that propagates opposition by telling friends and family (and anyone who'll listen) about bad developments in the hope that word and opposition spreads.

Offline Tea Boy

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #231 on: June 25, 2012, 01:11:23 PM »
Hey Muggins - there's a bit of a pattern going on here with your postings on this thread.  We are discussing the facts about what the Tories have actually done in North Swindon and you change the focus every time.  If you are on this thread to be sympathetic or understanding or circumvent the process of what the Tories are doing and have done to the people of Oakhurst then carry on.

Remember Muggins when they come after your butterfly orchard to build on it you may look to people in North Swindon to support you and we won't be here because we will have been driven away by the Tories.  The aim is not to cow the people or the community but to hold the Tories accountable for their actions - what they actually say and what they actually do!

Thing is Muggins if you're here with us to fight for Oakhurst against the Tadpole development and unsustainable development without infrastructure across Swindon then you are welcome with open arms.  But at the moment I am not so sure.


If only you knew.... Five minutes talkin to muffins about developers and planners is worth hours of anyone else's time.

Large swathes of north Swindon are green and most of it is down to a few people..... Muggins is one of them.

If you think she's pro developrer then I would say you haven't understood her properly.
Gardening tips: Always remember its brown side down, green side up.  If its knocking now it'll only go bang later

Offline sonicated

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #232 on: June 25, 2012, 01:13:07 PM »
I've done some background reading on Cllr. Sewell and she's the co-founder of Paranormal Site Investigators. So maybe she was doing more important work; like looking for ghosts?!

:2funny:

Mr Grumble

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #233 on: June 25, 2012, 02:32:16 PM »
Tea Boy I have in no way suggested that Muffins has any truck with developers.  My old post if you read it was about people that seem to accept what the Tories say and would rather hold ordinary residents to account than the councillors making such statements.

I wouldn't know Muffins or yourself if you sat down to tea with me.  This is entirely about keeping this thread focused in on politicians and what they say and what they do.

I note sonicated has yet again tried to take this off topic and I couldn't care less what Cllr Sewell does in her private life.  Her private life has nothing to do with what's happening at Tadpole Farm.  Why is it that since it has been mentioned by another poster that the Tories are trying to discredit people in Okahurst we suddenly find that this thread and its topic gets hijacked.  If it's a coincidence then I am happy to accept it.  However, in previous postings on Talkswindon by Muffins, Richard Beale and yourself, Tea Boy, you have been rigorous in holding the council to account.  I am doing nothing different.

Smiler

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #234 on: June 25, 2012, 02:47:24 PM »
@Cllr Vera Tomlinson

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VT – As a resident, it is your right to be able to comment and challenge any planning application that comes in. If you feel, I don’t want to sound patronising – you’ve known me for a while now, I don’t mean that, but if you feel out of your depth with planning speak which is quite different from our everyday language, then contact one of your councillors, any councillor will do, and try to get them to support you, and they can do this work for you.[/quote.]

Does VT need to contact a councillor for planning advice herself?  After all, wasn't she the Vice-Chair of Planning Committee for a couple of years or more which would make her totally unable to understand planning speak?  Some of us have known her for a while now and support wouldn't be a word you would associate with her actions unless it's a surgical intervention such as removing any opposition's voicebox.  Look for support against Tadpole Farm and she'll tell the committee to approve it.

Support - another definition for the political dictionary could be a political equivalent of a surgical truss that holds up one's moral fibre when it's drooping under the weight of disingenuousness.


Offline sonicated

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #235 on: June 25, 2012, 03:23:13 PM »
I note sonicated has yet again tried to take this off topic and I couldn't care less what Cllr Sewell does in her private life.  Her private life has nothing to do with what's happening at Tadpole Farm.  Why is it that since it has been mentioned by another poster that the Tories are trying to discredit people in Okahurst we suddenly find that this thread and its topic gets hijacked.  If it's a coincidence then I am happy to accept it.  However, in previous postings on Talkswindon by Muffins, Richard Beale and yourself, Tea Boy, you have been rigorous in holding the council to account.  I am doing nothing different.

I've "yet again tried to take this subject off topic"? Pfft! I have never taken this thread off topic!

When I made my first off topic post this thread was already offtopic talking about Justin Tomlinson's wedding I merely continued that. Is commenting on Cllr. Sewells official register of interests which she is required to declare really taking this thread off topic? No. What if her ghost busting group is sponsored by Crest?!

Offline sonicated

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #236 on: June 25, 2012, 03:29:54 PM »
We are discussing the facts about what the Tories have actually done in North Swindon and you change the focus every time.

I'd just like to remind you that the thread topic is "North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm".

If you want a thread where the discussion is limited to "What the Tories have actually done in North Swindon" then I suggest you create one.

Smiler

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #237 on: June 25, 2012, 03:31:52 PM »
@Cllr Vera Tomlinson

Quote
VT – As a resident, it is your right to be able to comment and challenge any planning application that comes in. If you feel, I don’t want to sound patronising – you’ve known me for a while now, I don’t mean that, but if you feel out of your depth with planning speak which is quite different from our everyday language, then contact one of your councillors, any councillor will do, and try to get them to support you, and they can do this work for you.[/quote.]

Does VT need to contact a councillor for planning advice herself?  After all, wasn't she the Vice-Chair of Planning Committee for a couple of years or more which would make her totally unable to understand planning speak?  Some of us have known her for a while now and support wouldn't be a word you would associate with her actions unless it's a surgical intervention such as removing any opposition's voicebox.  Look for support against Tadpole Farm and she'll tell the committee to approve it.

Support - another definition for the political dictionary could be a political equivalent of a surgical truss that holds up one's moral fibre when it's drooping under the weight of disingenuousness.

You've just done it again.  At least we know you're a Tory supporter now.  I think you fell into the trap!!

George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #238 on: June 25, 2012, 03:37:56 PM »
We are discussing the facts about what the Tories have actually done in North Swindon and you change the focus every time.

I'd just like to remind you that the thread topic is "North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm".

If you want a thread where the discussion is limited to "What the Tories have actually done in North Swindon" then I suggest you create one.

@sonicated

Can't you start it off yourself?

Offline sonicated

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #239 on: June 25, 2012, 03:47:21 PM »
@sonicated

Can't you start it off yourself?

Yes, but I don't want to thanks.

I was making a point that this thread is about North Swindon expanding and so Mr Grumble should not grumble about the focus not being on "What the Tories have actually done in North Swindon".