Author Topic: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2  (Read 64242 times)

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Offline Candide7

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http://www.swindonlink.com/news/tadpole-farm-needs-approval-to-block-ridgeway-farm

Cllr Nick Martin is on the planning committee that will decide whether the Crest planning application should go ahead at 6pm at Council Offices this evening. Is it right and proper that Cllr Martin votes on this issue when he has a clear conflict of interests and has pre-determined his views stating them in public at Ridgeway appeal as well as in Swindon Link?


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Offline Geoff Reid

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Not a sniff of the much publicised Tory leaflet in my part of Priory Vale - have yet to hear from anyone who has seen one....was it 4000 leaflets or hen's teeth they were supposed to be delivering?


I haven't recently received any copies of Conservative leaflets concerning the proposed Tadpole Farm development via either the Swindon Lamplighters Network or normal forum emails.

I can report that I've received multiple copies, (both hard and digital), of a Labour 'North Swindon Matters' which describes these proposals as a 'Developers Free For All'.

Hat-Tip goes to Lamplighter 'Tory-Turner', (their choice of screen name, not mine), because they were first :)  Many thanks to the other contributors.




Just about now, the planning committee will be winding up their usual pre-meeting-meeting with the Conservative committee members already having already decided been instructed by their glorious leader as to which politically important items they will be approving. 

What I always find interesting about planning committee members is seeing how unsuccessful some  of them are at masking the unease caused by their own pretending that some of their decisions are not predetermined.

One day someone will bug & record them at it.  Then I'll laugh.....

 

Offline Richard Beale

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http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9756777.Council_gives_green_light_for_nearly_1_700_homes_at_Tadpole_Farm/

There goes the neighbourhood then.... Looks like Crest are to buy their way out of trouble  or no planning permission.

Quote
Tonight’s planning committee added an extra condition that Crest Nicholson must negotiate with officers and ward councillors on how it can address the concerns through contributions - and if no satisfactory agreement is reached within three months then the formal permission will not be granted.


Ward Councillor hush-money perhaps? Any bets on whether the 'contribution' gets spent in the area or not?

Offline Steve Wakefield

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It was a long meeting tonight and the decision was to approve outline planning application, with conditions.
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Richard Beale

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It was a long meeting tonight and the decision was to approve outline planning application, with conditions.

Conditions, Steve? is that other words for money or facilities?

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Richard

http://oakhurstresidents.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/oakhursts-worse-fears-confirmed-tadpole.html

All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Richard Beale

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Richard

http://oakhurstresidents.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/oakhursts-worse-fears-confirmed-tadpole.html


Hell's teeth.. Crest got that cheap, only £60k, that won't even dent the profit they will make on ONE house... Bet the champagne corks are 'a poppin' tonight in crest towers...

Looks like the new breed of north Swindon Councillors just rolled over and let it happen then. Should I have expected more?

Offline Candide7

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Let's hope the residents of North Swindon remember this betrayal by their ward councillors the next time they are asked to put a cross on the ballot paper. They never really opposed throughout the whole process despite various PR attempts to convince otherwise. It's good the truth is out now with Toby Elliott, our new ward councillor who lives in Oakhurst actually the proposer that Crest application should be approved. Wow that's breathtaking.
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Offline Richard Beale

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Quote
- from Oakhurst Resdients Blog -

Cllr Vera Tomlinson made the point that only the St Andrews councillors should have any say over the negotiations about the S.106 money because Tadpole Farm sits entirely within her ward.  However, a plethera of councillors challenged her on this issue and now all the north Swindon councillors will have an opportunity to find a way forward.


All of them now need a slice of that s106 money to placate the many people who have opposed this, from my friends there it seems that the 470 objections is just the tip of a very large iceberg. That £60k isn't going to make it go much further either.

Let's hope the residents of North Swindon remember this betrayal by their ward councillors the next time they are asked to put a cross on the ballot paper. They never really opposed throughout the whole process despite various PR attempts to convince otherwise. It's good the truth is out now with Toby Elliott, our new ward councillor who lives in Oakhurst actually the proposer that Crest application should be approved. Wow that's breathtaking.


Doesn't surprise me at all.

So all the OTHER north Swindon councillors objected publicly, and the only one on the actual planning committee voted for it, do they not talk and have a coherent ward policy.......

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9752186.Residents_are_urged_to_have_say_on_Tadpole_Farm_homes/

what do you make of that, is Cllr Elliot a planning patsy?

Offline Candide7

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Vera Tomlinson will probably succeed in getting some more money for bollards to be put up outside her house in Redhouse to stop people parking outside her gaff. She succeeded in getting all the traffic to go down Oakhurst Way including 'Rapid Bus Transit' that won' be so 'Rapid' so it wouldn't go past her house.
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 12:32:40 AM »
what do you make of that, is Cllr Elliot a planning patsy?

Yep, and he did exactly as instructed.

If I remember correctly, DaMellon reported a series of un-minuted and unpublicised meetings which took place between Crest Nicholson and the Tomlinsons.

Also, if I remember correctly, Toby Elliot is close to the Tomlinsons, close to the point where Toby airbrushed his facebook page or twitter account after first boasting on it that he was on a night out with the boy Tomlinson in Swindon....

...so not surprising that he's their willing planning bitch.     


He'll be worth watching if he's being groomed by the Tomlinsons to provide them with plausible-deniability.  He's obviously made a cracking start on alienating himself from and dumping on those he's supposed to represent.

MrGrumpy

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2012, 06:38:05 AM »
By all accounts the North Swindon Tory Councillors (at least the ones that were there) gave very pretty speeches about how bad the application was, how the area could not cope with the impact of 1700 houses and how it would blight the existing communities...there were even tales of not sleeping over the worry of the decision....

But, apart from Peter H-J, they all ended their objection speeches with the word 'but' - along the lines of but I see no grounds for turning it down as we would not win an appeal....

Offline Tea Boy

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2012, 07:03:48 AM »
So it was only peter Heaton Jones who came out with any integrity left.

The others should hang their heads in shame. It's not their job to add 'buts', in this context surly tier role is to put forward, forcefully and directly, the view of their constituents.

Sounds like a put up job, where the decision had already been made. Certain councillors then being sllowed to save some face but ultimately being told to tow the line.
With such vehement opposition from local communities and residents there should have been an 'over my dead body' theme to the speeches

The feeling I am gettiny is that they stamped their feet a little but were going to let this happen any way
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MrGrumpy

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2012, 07:07:19 AM »
Adver has just dropped through my door with some more details....electronic copy not online yet so cannot link to it, but looks like the evening can be summed up with a quote from Cllr Vera Tomlinson, who is reported as having said that
Quote
rejecting permission was not an option because the council would lose at appeal

Offline Tea Boy

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2012, 07:29:07 AM »
Quote from: MrGrumpy link=topic=6915.msg81093#msg810 93 date=1339567639
Adver has just dropped through my door with some more details....electronic copy not online yet so cannot link to it, but looks like the evening can be summed up with a quote from Cllr Vera Tomlinson, who is reported as having said that
Quote
rejecting permission was not an option because the council would lose at appeal

That's a poor excuse.  That can be rolled out time and time again. Bet north Swindon residents wish they had the cllr backup that gorsehill residents got.


North Swindon conservatives Compliant or impotent?     Well certainly not got any will to fight for their voters
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Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2012, 07:29:47 AM »
Well oh well.

What is the purpose of the planning committee?

Is it to scrutinise a proposal?

Or is it to deliver to the public a decision made elsewhere?

Having been to many of these 'quasi-judicial processes' over the last year or so , in my opinion it is the latter.

The objectors to proposals are generally those who live in the areas surrounding the latest wheeze presented and packaged by an arrogant, patronising and condescending group of officers who demonstrate their impatience with the public they are supposed to be in post to serve.

The Legal Eagle who guides the process has the bare faced cheek to state with a straight face that if objectors do not agree with Officers then they must provide their own expert advice. But wait… been there.. Officers dismiss independent expert assessments because Officers are always right.

The message from Officers is that if you challenge what we say you will lose this on appeal, because whatever they write in their report is the basis of any appeal.

It doesn’t matter that these same Officers inhabit some sort of fantasy land where people pop to the shops, cross the road to get to school, use their cars as ornaments and hop on a bus which will sprint into town or work or Utopia. Because the computer says, these are the numbers so it all must be right. 

Residents have no influence with Officers. This was again apparent from their demeanour last night where they looked so bored at having to go through the charade of listening and looking offended when challenged.

Officers appear to be highly politicised.  To see the planning officer going through a recent Labour Leaflet did not reflect well on him or the manager sitting beside him.

Swindon is a mess, in gridlock and rapidly becoming an sprawling dormitory town where people have to shop for food ( hence the every expanding supermarkets) but escape for discretionary spending.

On the basis of the quality of the officers and the supine nature of the planning committee it is clear why we are in this mess.

Listening to Ward Councillors Tomlinson and Friend in their… I feel your pain… but I am going to approve it anyway was not counterbalanced by the Cllr Heaton-Jomes'  impassioned speech for his residents and against this application.  Had this whole exercise been orchestrated?

It appears that Swindon is still open house for Developers and that the only matter for discussion is the price.

Welcome to Swindon where Officers know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

And who tells the Officers what to do ?

Kareen




It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2012, 08:11:47 AM »
A few points-

The Borough Solicitor is useless - he loses more appeals than he wins. They appealed Coate even though development at Commonhead was in the adopted development plan yet he pronounces he can't win an appeal on Tadpole Farm even though it is not in adopted plan! It would be extremely useful to understand the reasons the solicitor gave for his conclusion that an appeal would be lost. Did he give the reasons? Or was his conclusion accepted without challenge or questioning?

This decision was pre-determined by the Tories from the start. It has been approved at every vote.
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Offline Muggins

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2012, 08:36:21 AM »
Teaboy? "So it was only Peter Heaton Jones who came out with any integrity left."


No, no, no, no one can come out of it with any integrity. And that's an old trick standing up and looking good  :angel:  but knowing full well that your councillor colleagues will vote you down anyway.

Who evers 'fault' this is, the damage was done wayyyyy before last evening, it was done at the first approach by the developers.  If it's not trodden on then, and vociferously, it goes too far too soon.

Does this mean if anyone anywhere has a bit of land they want to flog off that they can do so and the buyer expect to be able to build 1,700 houses?  We could talk about whether or not that is usually a number to trigger off schools and shops etc. i think if you add up the rest of Northern Development and its ratio to facilties there might be a bit of anomoly there.


Jennyb "Swindon is a mess, in gridlock and rapidly becoming an sprawling dormitory town"

That's funny that's what we were saying before Northern Development, Whichelstowe and the extra development in Old Town, Gorsehill, most of the school playing fields, etc. etc.
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Offline the gorgon

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2012, 09:02:44 AM »
A few points-

The Borough Solicitor is useless - he loses more appeals than he wins. They appealed Coate even though development at Commonhead was in the adopted development plan yet he pronounces he can't win an appeal on Tadpole Farm even though it is not in adopted plan! It would be extremely useful to understand the reasons the solicitor gave for his conclusion that an appeal would be lost. Did he give the reasons? Or was his conclusion accepted without challenge or questioning?

This decision was pre-determined by the Tories from the start. It has been approved at every vote.


Or is this exactly the result the Tory government's new planning guidelines were meant to achieve?  If this is the case it is very worrying indeed, because unless an area is specifically excluded from development it can be built on!  Saying that an area isn't included in the adopted plan means nothing unless the adopted plan stated that this site must not be built on.

To quote the governments planning portal (my bolding): http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/planning/planninginspectorate/presumption
Quote
When considering development proposals the Council will take a positive approach that reflects the presumption in favour of sustainable development contained in the National Planning Policy Framework. It will always work proactively with applicants jointly to find solutions which mean that proposals can be approved wherever possible, and to secure development that improves the economic, social and environmental conditions in the area.

Planning applications that accord with the policies in this Local Plan (and, where relevant, with polices in neighbourhood plans) will be approved without delay, unless material considerations indicate otherwise.

Where there are no policies relevant to the application or relevant policies are out of date at the time of making the decision then the Council will grant permission unless material considerations indicate otherwise – taking into account whether:

    Any adverse impacts of granting permission would significantly and demonstrably outweigh the benefits, when assessed against the policies in the National Planning Policy Framework taken as a whole; or

    Specific policies in that Framework indicate that development should be restricted.


Perhaps the Tory voters of the NSD would do well to remember that it was a Tory government that forced the NSD upon the town (the Labour council rejected the plans), and as saying goes "leopards don't change their spots".  So even if the plans were rejected by the Tories in Swindon those in London wouldn't hesitate to approve them.

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm. Part 2
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2012, 10:30:16 AM »
You guys should have been at Planning last night, an unmitigated disaster is now in the making with little or no redress of any of the traffic issues that exist in West Swindon, Moredon or Gorsehill which will come to a standstill with the rat runs out of Tadpole Farm.

It was approved, as expected, and unaminously, but I must say I am appalled at the lack of consideration by our Officers who in my opinion have manifestly failed to look after our interests.  The car movement figures are a joke and all this talk of rapid transport does nothing to inspire me.  There were just too many reasons why it should be approved and too few as to why we should negotiate for the right type of deal for Swindon.  Roll over and tickle my tummy comes to mind in our desperation to convince businessmen that 'Swindon is the Place where business wants to do business.' (Quote from our leader Rod Bluh).  But should this be at any price?  This decision leaves me so disillusioned that I may have to look to spend my retirement elsewhere and move!!

Now to the Planning Committee and representative Councillors who spoke passionately about how badly this will affect us and that the deal needed to be reconsidered around a three or six monthly deferment.  Jim Grant failed to drive home his initiative on deferment by turning round to the Managing Director of Crest Nicholson and ask him to agree to it.  The initiative just melted away along with the emotional Vera who had not slept for 36 hours.  Was she concerned for her constituents or the effect this may have on her son the Conservative MP for North Swindon, I wonder? At the end of the day we have wasted millions of pounds on all sorts of wasteful expeditions recently so why not challenge this application and be prepared to defend it at a hearing?

Crest Nicholson must be over the moon, yes they have to discuss things with Officers and Councillors in the Northern Sector, but they have their outline Planning Permission along with its woefully inadequate Road System. I am only glad I do not live anywhere near Redhouse!!
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