Author Topic: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School  (Read 17016 times)

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Offline jayjay

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #100 on: March 18, 2013, 11:20:49 AM »
If SBC know how they should be running consultations then why do they make such a mess of the them?

Offline Muggins

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #101 on: March 18, 2013, 02:49:34 PM »
Because they don't come on  here to learn how to do it??
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #102 on: March 20, 2013, 02:50:58 AM »

'They' know full well how to consult properly.

'They' choose NOT to consult properly because to do so means they they would, more often than not, be pursuing their 'prefered option' despite their own consultation showing little or no public support for it.

It's considered politically expedient to run shoddy consultations and 'interpret' the results through a political kaleidoscope.


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Offline Muggins

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #103 on: March 20, 2013, 07:57:04 AM »
I know they SHOULD know how to do it Geoff, and they used to, and even then they used to leave it conventiently late sometimes  most of the time.

They even consulted on how to do consultation (I know because  I was at those meetings(
they were invariably written down and published and launched with much hoohah. Mostly they had to have them as a statutory requirement.

Then when push came to shove (politics and jobs) they forgot all about the policy - in fact I (and others like me) commented on this several times and we felt that as one department or another took up the challenge of not only asking us what we thought, but because we did contribute, embedding in us the idea that we had a right to be consulted.

Back ot that ONE DEPARTMENT doing  the consultation about consulting.  Any policy set was invarialbly consulted upon via one department.  But no one but that department in the borough, even the councillors that passed said policy, ever remembered it and it was not spread across all borough departments. 

We suggested that one day a week became 'training day' like they had in the shops at the time.  i.e. the first half hour - hour was set aside for staff training, keeping up with the latest borough policy. Every worker should read the copy  and then sign to say they would read it.
This was so we didn't embarrass the officers when we challenged it and any project could move ahead at once, rather than them having to catch up!

But since those days - not that long ago, so many staff have been made redundant that I would say MOST of those that are left and new staff do not even realise the importance of it, be aware of its existence, or even know about policies.

As most of them are so clever, why would they think they should ask us lot out here.

Just like the officers who didn't know Rod Bluh and who he was - neither do some of them understand they are public servants, or what working for a local authority means.  It's just a blooming job with a pay packet at the end of it just like everyone elses.
I'm not knocking them for that, some of them do their job well and others don't, just like anywhere else. 

And I bet that the Induction process there is at an all time low.

I beleive that the Borough heirachy do NOT know they should consult, it they do, why they should and do NOT know they have their own policy (well researched and consulted upon) that compels them to do it well.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Rincewind

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #104 on: June 06, 2013, 11:37:06 PM »
Is there yet another chapter to be written in the North Swindon school place planning farce?

http://oakhurstresidents.org.uk/blog/2013/06/what-ward-councillor-says-and-what-leader-does

Offline Muggins

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #105 on: June 07, 2013, 09:05:56 AM »
It is of interest that Abbey Meads school is advertising places.

Could it be that as the first school built in the Northern Development, I'm trying to figure out how long ago that was - must be at least ten years ago, that a flurry of young families moved in and the children are now growing up and moving on to Secondary level, meaning that there are less children in the area to take up places?

This happens on all new development and is why schools closed at West Swindon. It's why schools are built smaller and have temporary buildings added to take the first flurry, which can be taken away should the population settle.

I can see the dilemma of school planning school provision, but don't know the answer.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline jennyb

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #106 on: June 07, 2013, 02:24:10 PM »
Children's services have what appears to be highly remunerated team in place who have 5 years information on reception place planning based on where children live.

Children's services have knowledge and input into decisions on planning of new developments.

Children's services didn't bother to attend the Tadpole Farm planning application  granted with NO primary provision in place until over 500 of the 1700 homes will be occupied.

Children's services forecast the need for additional North Swindon reception places in 2009 and were awarded £6,374,000 from the government.

Children's services were involved in the decision to give all of this money to the Croft.

Children's services own data showed there was no local need for the Croft and there is still none.

Children's services need to determine whether they are building schools based on where children live or where parents want to apply.

Because it doesn't seem as though there is money to do both or to mix and match.

Personally I can't see any dilemma in officers doing the job they are paid to do.

Based on the evidence, the problems facing North Swindon are a result of the actions taken by Children's services with the helpful hands of the new lead member for this department.

Reap what you sow comes to mind.

Which is scant comfort to North Swindon families.
 

And.. not clear whether Abbey Meads has any reception places going spare..

It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline the gorgon

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2013, 07:08:53 PM »
SBC really ought to know what happens with schools, especially with all the estates (council and private) that have been built here since the war.

Houses are built, young couples buy them, there's a wave of kids going to primary then secondary school. People get older, school pupil numbers drop, people retire/move away.  Then 40-50 years after the houses were first built young families buy them again, pupil numbers increase (but probably never to the original peak).

Good quality temporary classrooms are available http://www.portableoffices.co.uk/content/3-Education-and-Training and when coupled with changes in school catchment areas some school building can be avoided.

If the catchment areas of East Wichel, Lethbridge and Lawn primaries were tweaked and a few temporary classrooms used Croft School need never have been built.

Offline Mart

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #108 on: June 07, 2013, 08:24:24 PM »
SBC really ought to know what happens with schools, especially with all the estates (council and private) that have been built here since the war.

You'd think they'd have had enough practice, and a number of people are in fact paid wages to get it right. Generally speaking they also get 5 years warning of demand.

Bit like when they get surprised when Christmas turns up.

You can imagine the conversation 'Bugger me, the town is heaving (ish) what the feck is going on?'
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #109 on: June 08, 2013, 08:53:32 AM »
"SBC really ought to know what happens with schools, especially with all the estates (council and private) that have been built here since the war"

That's partially why I can't get my head around what happening now - when they were planning Northern development, they certainly seemed to have a grip on what they needed and what happens has the population of any area settles down.  As it happens, it seems that council estates (we'll call them that for ease of recognition) have enough inning and outing to maintain pretty well level numbers in their schools.  At Abbey Meads school, it stands between ALL private housing and Groundwell which is private and a goodly number of housing association, so you would suppose it would not have much trouble filling places/maintaining numbers.

I've said before that when the school buildings where planned, there was no housing planned for Groundwell, it was going to either halls of residence for the much hoped for Uni. or low rise warehousing. The schools, we were told (must have it here somewhere in writing) would be a the heart of their communities - both physically and mentally. It was intended they would also serve as the community centre. (that was never going to work!!)

I can't remember the logic of starting of the placing of the schools at the far end of their intended catchment areas, but it started with Abbey Meads and worked it's way along the development. 

I suggest this as reason that Abbey Meads has places too: Now that parents have a choice, that they are avoiding putting their children into the same school as council house kids. It wouldn't happen? No? You reckon?

Its an appalling attitude, but, I am afraid, out there.   
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline jennyb

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #110 on: June 09, 2013, 12:45:42 PM »
SBC really ought to know what happens with schools, especially with all the estates (council and private) that have been built here since the war.

Houses are built, young couples buy them, there's a wave of kids going to primary then secondary school. People get older, school pupil numbers drop, people retire/move away.  Then 40-50 years after the houses were first built young families buy them again, pupil numbers increase (but probably never to the original peak).

Good quality temporary classrooms are available http://www.portableoffices.co.uk/content/3-Education-and-Training and when coupled with changes in school catchment areas some school building can be avoided.

If the catchment areas of East Wichel, Lethbridge and Lawn primaries were tweaked and a few temporary classrooms used Croft School need never have been built.


There may have been many reasons that the Croft School was built.

Local need was never one of them. 

Shame on those who allowed this to happen to the detriment of the real need. 
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.