Author Topic: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School  (Read 64102 times)

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Offline jayjay

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2013, 04:11:55 PM »
Is there any legal requirement for SBC to post flyers/notices/leaflets in the country park to inform the users - who may not be local residents - that the park is being considered for building on?

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2013, 05:53:12 PM »
these are the consultation maps:-
site 1
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20Option.pdf
site 2
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Mouldon%20Hill%20-%20Option%202.pdf

hope these are sufficent



Those are exactly what I was hoping for - thank you :)

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2013, 06:20:23 PM »
Those are quite detailed 'options'. 


My next question is: Does anyone have the similarly detailed plans which-I'm-sure-SBC-will-have-also-prepared for the three other sites up for consultation?


I'm betting that plans for the other sites don't exist because there is no official 'other option' than Mouldon Hill Country Park.

Offline Weebleman

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2013, 07:57:38 PM »
Geoff,

Redhouse:
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Redhouse%20Pub%20Site%20(2%20storey).pdf

Clary Road:
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Clary%20Road.pdf

Preferred Mouldon site:
The plans displayed at the Tawny Owl a few weeks ago showed the access road coming off the end of the existing Mouldon car park with a level crossing to get across the rail track, with a further option sketched in for direct access off the dual carriageway and going under the rail track.
At the time, the direct access route was described as being a very expensive option and one that they were unlikely to be able to afford.  So it's interesting to see that the latest scheme shows only the direct access (expensive) route, with no mention of the link to the car park. Does anyone know what exactly is on the cards? It seems to me that the goal posts are changing while the consultation is taking place which IMHO makes the whole thing a bit pointless -- it certainly voids many of my comments!

Offline jayjay

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2013, 08:24:09 PM »
Geoff,

Redhouse:
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Redhouse%20Pub%20Site%20(2%20storey).pdf

Clary Road:
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Clary%20Road.pdf


Preferred Mouldon site:
The plans displayed at the Tawny Owl a few weeks ago showed the access road coming off the end of the existing Mouldon car park with a level crossing to get across the rail track, with a further option sketched in for direct access off the dual carriageway and going under the rail track.
At the time, the direct access route was described as being a very expensive option and one that they were unlikely to be able to afford.  So it's interesting to see that the latest scheme shows only the direct access (expensive) route, with no mention of the link to the car park. Does anyone know what exactly is on the cards? It seems to me that the goal posts are changing while the consultation is taking place which IMHO makes the whole thing a bit pointless -- it certainly voids many of my comments!


The links I posted earlier are the sbc web site so I assume are the most up to date - I can't really tell whether they were the ones displayed at the Tawny Owl.

These plans for Clary Rd/Redhouse seem less detailed, almost after thoughts :-\

Alot of time seems to have gone into the Mouldon Country Park plans.

Offline Spunkymonkey

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2013, 08:39:50 PM »
I have heard that the proposed extension of Swindon & Cricklade Railway will pose problems, but not sure if they are insurmountable.

I am sure that the Railway Inspectorate would object to a level crossing even it is only a hobby railway. If the direct access route is prohibitely expensive, then perhaps this the insurmountable problem referred to in earlier posts.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2013, 11:05:16 PM »

These plans for Clary Rd/Redhouse seem less detailed, almost after thoughts :-

Alot of time seems to have gone into the Mouldon Country Park plans.

Exactly. I know what conclusion I draw from that. :(


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Offline jennyb

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2013, 08:11:29 AM »
Lest we forget...

The Mouldon Hill Proposal is based on the development of a Class Solutions design... the flagship for which was supposed to be the Croft.

The Croft has not behaved as Cllr Bluh wished... it is not complete in 2/3 of the time and it sure as heck does not look to be 2/3 cost of a normal school. To date we have not seen any Cllrs up to have a photo shoot at what Cllr Bluh states is a finished product... 

Mouldon Hill is a green field site.. which might serve to minimise the awful scale of this set of sheds and its 19 roofs. Might ( haha) look better than the Croft in pictures??

It will be of interest to see whether the next leader is hell bent on pursuing this unapproved and unscrutinised business venture and gobbling up green and open public space to do so.

It is a matter of record (  I have the recording ) that Cllr Foley (... there will be no permanent school on the Croft).. liked and endorsed the Class Solutions design.

The lady is none too keen on uppity residents who dare to question and gets more than a little huffy when they do .. stamps her feet and then runs away...

Or perhaps when Elvis has left the building Class Solutions will join him?
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline jennyb

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2013, 08:21:09 AM »
Forgot to mention...

The North Swindon MP has shown an interest in pop up schools... and met with the Class Solutions SBC Architect and Cllr Perkins ( then lead member for schools) ... way back in (I think) Mar 2011 .. to discuss.
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2013, 08:45:12 AM »
Seeing as how Class Solutions appears to have put up such a poor show at Croft, how long do you think it will reamin viable as a business?
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Offline Weebleman

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2013, 09:49:42 AM »
Lest we forget...

The Mouldon Hill Proposal is based on the development of a Class Solutions design... the flagship for which was supposed to be the Croft.

The Croft has not behaved as Cllr Bluh wished... it is not complete in 2/3 of the time and it sure as heck does not look to be 2/3 cost of a normal school. To date we have not seen any Cllrs up to have a photo shoot at what Cllr Bluh states is a finished product... 

Mouldon Hill is a green field site.. which might serve to minimise the awful scale of this set of sheds and its 19 roofs. Might ( haha) look better than the Croft in pictures??

It will be of interest to see whether the next leader is hell bent on pursuing this unapproved and unscrutinised business venture and gobbling up green and open public space to do so.

It is a matter of record (  I have the recording ) that Cllr Foley (... there will be no permanent school on the Croft).. liked and endorsed the Class Solutions design.

The lady is none too keen on uppity residents who dare to question and gets more than a little huffy when they do .. stamps her feet and then runs away...

Or perhaps when Elvis has left the building Class Solutions will join him?
Mouldon may be a greenfield site but parts of what they're taking over is little better than a swamp at some times of the year. Coupled with the cost of access under/over the rail track (if that's really what they intend to do) and having to move some pretty heavy overhead power gantry will not (in my view) make this either a cheap, easy or quick option. Interesting to note that no one has yet come up with even a wet-finger-in-the-air estimate of how much this lot is going to cost. I wonder how much expenditure it takes to wake-up the silent CT payer!

They may not have the same degree of hassle from residents' objections to contend with as they did with Croft, but that doesn't mean this is going to be a straight forward project.

One other thing that I might slip in to the thread at this point. While I was talking to the schools planning chappie at the Tawny Owl, I asked the question that if the need for these new entry classes are so urgent NOW, what's going to to happen when these kids get to the age of 11 and need to go to a senior school?......... The answer I was given was that this hadn't even been thought about yet and they'd look at finding somewhere nearer the time after the infant school was up and running  :o
So..... are we looking at the Mouldon site as potentially the site for the worlds first pop-up Academy in the long term? After all, plenty of room for expansion! Maybe the current installation is to set a precendent for later on.... more similarities to Croft than one might at first imagine.

Offline jayjay

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2013, 10:07:20 AM »
Geoff,

Redhouse:
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Redhouse%20Pub%20Site%20(2%20storey).pdf

Clary Road:
http://www.swindon.gov.uk/cd/cd-consultations/cd-consultations-current/Documents/Clary%20Road.pdf

Preferred Mouldon site:
The plans displayed at the Tawny Owl a few weeks ago showed the access road coming off the end of the existing Mouldon car park with a level crossing to get across the rail track, with a further option sketched in for direct access off the dual carriageway and going under the rail track.
At the time, the direct access route was described as being a very expensive option and one that they were unlikely to be able to afford.  So it's interesting to see that the latest scheme shows only the direct access (expensive) route, with no mention of the link to the car park. Does anyone know what exactly is on the cards? It seems to me that the goal posts are changing while the consultation is taking place which IMHO makes the whole thing a bit pointless -- it certainly voids many of my comments!


It should be noted that there is no plan at all for Tadpole Farm!

The issue of school places was raised during the Crest Nicholson consultation, and formed part of the planning application (I think), and WCs had that extra window of consultation between the planning meeting in July 2012 & granting approval 3 months later, surely in all that time soemone would have delevoped a rough idea of a future Tadpole Farm school site/layout?

Offline jennyb

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2013, 02:15:27 PM »
Seeing as how Class Solutions appears to have put up such a poor show at Croft, how long do you think it will reamin viable as a business?

In order to remain viable there 1st has to be substantive evidence that it is viable.

As SBC/SCS have stated to the press that they won't know how much the Croft has cost until all of the invoices are in ... there is no evidence that Class Solutions is 2/3 of the cost of a normal school.. or can be built in 2/3 of the time.

Whether Class Solutions is cheaper to run and maintain ...who knows?

Interesting.. I don't believe that St Joseph's is pursuing Class Solutions...

It will be interesting to note if the new leader tries to convince them otherwise..
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline jennyb

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2013, 02:32:23 PM »
Lest we forget...

The Mouldon Hill Proposal is based on the development of a Class Solutions design... the flagship for which was supposed to be the Croft.

The Croft has not behaved as Cllr Bluh wished... it is not complete in 2/3 of the time and it sure as heck does not look to be 2/3 cost of a normal school. To date we have not seen any Cllrs up to have a photo shoot at what Cllr Bluh states is a finished product... 

Mouldon Hill is a green field site.. which might serve to minimise the awful scale of this set of sheds and its 19 roofs. Might ( haha) look better than the Croft in pictures??

It will be of interest to see whether the next leader is hell bent on pursuing this unapproved and unscrutinised business venture and gobbling up green and open public space to do so.

It is a matter of record (  I have the recording ) that Cllr Foley (... there will be no permanent school on the Croft).. liked and endorsed the Class Solutions design.

The lady is none too keen on uppity residents who dare to question and gets more than a little huffy when they do .. stamps her feet and then runs away...

Or perhaps when Elvis has left the building Class Solutions will join him?
Mouldon may be a greenfield site but parts of what they're taking over is little better than a swamp at some times of the year. Coupled with the cost of access under/over the rail track (if that's really what they intend to do) and having to move some pretty heavy overhead power gantry will not (in my view) make this either a cheap, easy or quick option. Interesting to note that no one has yet come up with even a wet-finger-in-the-air estimate of how much this lot is going to cost. I wonder how much expenditure it takes to wake-up the silent CT payer!

They may not have the same degree of hassle from residents' objections to contend with as they did with Croft, but that doesn't mean this is going to be a straight forward project.

One other thing that I might slip in to the thread at this point. While I was talking to the schools planning chappie at the Tawny Owl, I asked the question that if the need for these new entry classes are so urgent NOW, what's going to to happen when these kids get to the age of 11 and need to go to a senior school?......... The answer I was given was that this hadn't even been thought about yet and they'd look at finding somewhere nearer the time after the infant school was up and running  :o
So..... are we looking at the Mouldon site as potentially the site for the worlds first pop-up Academy in the long term? After all, plenty of room for expansion! Maybe the current installation is to set a precendent for later on.... more similarities to Croft than one might at first imagine.

It is interesting to compare North Swindon school need with East Wichel.

The planning chappie and his buddies will tell you that a new development generates the need for reception places and then the school will open for each successive year group.

North Swindon primary places are already under strain. The planning chappie has known about this since at least 2009.

Tadpole Farm was approved with no primary provision until 564 homes are built.

East Wichel has planning permission for 838 homes.

East Wichel got a temporary school on the Croft in 2010 for 60 pupils.. but opened with 3 and closed with 15 in July 2011.

East Wichel got a 420 pupil school in July 2011 which opened to all year groups.

East Wichel currently has 560ish homes. 

The planning chappie knows that East Wichel has oodles of spare places.  So does Cllr Renard.

The lack of consistency in approach is of great concern. Low pupil numbers have to be subsided, paucity of provision incurs cost and upheaval as children are taken here there and everywhere.

The Croft process has let the cat out of the bag.

It is time for an open, honest, no holds barred discussion about the true state of school place provision and planning across primary and secondary schools.

Let's see if SBC will get a leader with the backbone to do this.

Time for something better... 
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline oldtowner

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2013, 01:42:06 PM »

It made me chuckle when I read the Pros/Cons for the Redhouse Pub Site
Quote
Pros:Difficult to see any as this piece is very small and would be a a very tight fit for even the smallest school

I would remind people that Croft School - 420 pupil school - is built on .59hectare site. So if the Redhouse site is bigger than .59hectare it can accomodate a school.

Quote
Cons:
(a) It would add to the existing traffic and parking problems on these already busy residential roads

The area around the Croft School was already busy residential roads with traffic and parking problems yet that school went ahead. The council also saw fit to set aside circa £500,000 for traffic mitigation work (Cllrs Bawden, Foley and Mattock wanted £700,000 - so they told residents).

The Croft School also had a teachers car park built but despite the school being open the school car park is not used and the access gates to that car park reamain locked and the car park unused.

So if the councillors in North Swindon put their minds to it the school could be built at Redhouse. Where there's a will there's a way...

Its also worth pointing out that the money for the Croft School in South Swindon was in fact money diverted from North Swindon which was to have been used to build a school in North Swindon to address the demand for school place in that area.

The North Swindon residents need to be having some serious discussions with their local councillors and find out why their much needed school is not already in situ while in South Swindon there are two newly built and under utilised schools.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2013, 05:52:06 PM »
JennyB Quote "So if the councillors in North Swindon put their minds to it the school could be built at Redhouse. Where there's a will there's a way...2

This site may be similar to the Bluynsdon Arms site, acorss the road and slightly to the right of the Northern Prbital, where a littel land was lef tfor the pub and a Mc Donalds - or some such.  But instead of getting that build and in first, they built the houses first, inevitably there was outcry from the  residents about the Mc Donalds outlet going in. they had already become used to the peace and quiet. I beleive Justin Tomlinson fought that battle for them  and found another site for McD's across the road in the NO car park.

The original site still stand idle - until now when there is planning in for a shelter housing old folks home type development. 

it strikes me that there are similarities with the Croft site, that if a councillor had wanted to, could have used to fight off further development there.

Back to the Redhouse pub, I wonder if, the housing around that site now having been built, will change the use of the site.  Because of the protest, but would a pub site including car parking etc, be big enough for a school?
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Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2013, 11:16:57 AM »
Some observations that may be relevant!

1.  David Renard said that if they decide to proceed the money will be available.

2.  How well does a shed last on damp or flooded foundations?  Do they intend to replicate the Croft Piles?

My guess is that Moulden Hill will be found to be the most appropriate site and that one day work will commence very soon.  When it will be concluded is another matter.

And all at a time when cuts are being made to everything considered important to Swindon Council Tax Payers.

The public are aware and are taking note.

But then at least Spender Rod is no longer part of the problem, so at least there is a possibility that common sense could prevail.
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Offline Mart

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2013, 07:30:33 PM »
This is novel, two posts in the same day, just saying ......

But then at least Spender Rod is no longer part of the problem, so at least there is a possibility that common sense could prevail.

http://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0S00xp7RzZRlT0AFwN2BQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBrc3VyamVwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQD?p=the+who+won+t+get+fooled+again&vid=e9ef4b6286ffdb26e8eff3986441975a&l=8%3A33&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.4529078309028284%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSHhrZgojY1Q&tit=The+Who+-+Won%26%2339%3Bt+Get+Fooled+Again&c=1&sigr=11atik5em&fr=yfp-t-702-s

Blimey, hope that works.
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Offline Simon

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Re: Groundbreaking or Farce / Public To Decide Ideal Location For School
« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2013, 08:55:06 PM »
This is novel, two posts in the same day, just saying ......

But then at least Spender Rod is no longer part of the problem, so at least there is a possibility that common sense could prevail.

http://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0S00xp7RzZRlT0AFwN2BQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBrc3VyamVwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQD?p=the+who+won+t+get+fooled+again&vid=e9ef4b6286ffdb26e8eff3986441975a&l=8%3A33&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.4529078309028284%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSHhrZgojY1Q&tit=The+Who+-+Won%26%2339%3Bt+Get+Fooled+Again&c=1&sigr=11atik5em&fr=yfp-t-702-s

Blimey, hope that works.


Sort of... is this what you meant?

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Offline Geoff Reid

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This is novel, two posts in the same day, just saying ....

Be glad that I wan't using a rifle when I hit the wrong target :) :) :)


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