Author Topic: The Advertiser and unemployment  (Read 4986 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Martin Wicks

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Personal Website
The Advertiser and unemployment
« on: January 28, 2013, 04:53:27 PM »
Why does the Adver always quote the JSA numbers as the level of unemployment in Swindon? They tell us today that it is 2.8%. Rubbish. The unemploymeny rate is 7.3% - 7,900. On top of that there are 7,000 people "economically inactive" who are looking for work.

With the Honda redundancies and the other recent ones the unemployment level wikk probably be pushing towards 10,000.



Offline Des Morgan

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1904
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello !
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2013, 05:35:49 PM »
But Martin if the JSA rates are the 'normal' figures used why shouldn't they use them.

The JSA figure is supportable by facts whereas many other figures are not.

For example where does the figure of '7,000 people "economically inactive" looking for work' - come from?

Are you saying that swindon has 14,900 people unemplyed or/and "economically inactive" ?

Finally, if unemployment is 7,000 how do you get to 10,000 - Honda isn't talking about 3,000 redundancies - who is going to make up the 3,000

Just interested.

If you are one of the unemployed genuinely seeking a job I hope you have success.  We have all sadly had periods where we were "economically inactive"

Offline Terry Reynolds

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2704
  • Gender: Male
  • `13 years of lies lies, sleaze porn 10p fiascos, m
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2013, 05:49:30 PM »
Having reread the article, surely Martin, the operative word is the figures for December.. it may have been that the figures were that low in December, any honda figures and the ones that went with them, surely arent even on the numbers total even now as they are still working.

Offline Martin Wicks

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Personal Website
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2013, 06:37:51 PM »
The figures are the December release but actually for September K.

Des, the national unemployment figures are 2.49 million. JSA is just over 1.5 million.

The 7,900 figure can be found on the ONS website and the NOMIS wensite. The 7,000 "economically inactive" number of people looking for work is from the NOMIS site which basically extracts government figures for each local authority area.

The Honda redundancies (including agency staff) will take the number to over 9,000. I haven't got the other redundancy figures to hand but they will take the number well above 9,000.

Quotinf an unemployment figure of 2.8% is completely misleading. It gave the impression that nearly 4,000 people are chasing after 1,500 jobs whereas it is, including those 7,000 economically inactive, probably in the region of 15,000. Even if you ignore those 7,000, with the recent redundancies we will have at least six people chasing after every job.

Offline Morsey

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 147
  • Hello !
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2013, 06:41:37 PM »
There are always people who are still of working age and live on small company pensions drawn at the age of 60 (or early retired, redundant men in most cases) who DO NOT appear on any list! After the age of 35, and I do mean THIRTY-FIVE, it is very difficult to acquire a full-time job with worthwhile pay after tax is taken out, so into the 50's 60's so many actually give up trying and await State Pension.

There are so many people who just do not get counted, and this is one area, the benefits system does not work for legitimate regular working people so they just plod on scraping along the bottom with Governments not really understanding why their figures, made up ONLY of those claiming, are reading so low when they know all too well that there are so many not being included in their false and fictitious numbers!!! This is FACT, think about it!!! ))))

Offline the gorgon

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1411
  • Hello !
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2013, 07:27:36 PM »
This is the government view of what economically inactive means

Quote
Economically inactive people are not in work and do not meet the internationally agreed definition of unemployment. They are people without a job who have not actively sought work in the last four weeks and/or are not available to start work in the next two weeks.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/hub/labour-market/people-not-in-work/economic-inactivity

Basically it means people who aren't really out there looking for job.

Offline Des Morgan

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1904
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello !
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2013, 10:42:27 PM »
Perhaps they are 'resting' which is the term actors use to describe the intervals between appearances.

Offline jennyb

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1813
  • Gender: Female
  • Kareen
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2013, 07:29:32 AM »
Any gentleman looking for work, under the male state pension age, but of female state pension age ( which is in transition from 60 to 65)  does not claim JSA. They must claim pension credit.
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Martin Wicks

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Personal Website
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2013, 10:45:15 AM »
It doesn't mean anything of the sort Gorgon. People's life circumstances are infitinitely variable. It may mean that they are ill, it may mean they are looking after somebody who is ill. It may mean they have been on holiday. Or maybe they are demoralised by the difficulties of getting a job, especially those who suffer age discrimination which is very common.

Offline Muggins

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8535
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2013, 12:41:49 PM »
"There are always people who are still of working age and live on small company pensions drawn at the age of 60 (or early retired, redundant men in most cases) who DO NOT appear on any list!"

That would be the 'economically inactive' - Mr Muggins and I hoot with derision when they refer to pensioners that way.  Could it be that people like pensioners and kept women are counted among these, i.e. those that might be looking for work and somehow registered, whilst not claiming anything? 
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Alex

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 993
  • Gender: Female
    • Alex Coppock-Bunce Hypnotherapy & Counselling
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2013, 01:48:44 PM »
There are also huge numbers of people who have felt they have had to become self employed over the past years. Many are struggling with acquiring work in this climate. They don't show up either.

Offline Des Morgan

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1904
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello !
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2013, 02:08:25 PM »
Quote
It doesn't mean anything of the sort Gorgon.

Actually Martin it does

I understand why you might choose to quote the 'usual' emotionally charged listing but the definition of 'economically inactive' embraces more than your list

Offline Muggins

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8535
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2013, 04:59:02 PM »
If only we could take emotion out of living! 

But then who would there be to stop the unemployed/disabled etc etc being quite literaly chucked to the lions.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Jarvis

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 325
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2013, 05:20:27 PM »

There is no such thing as 'economically inactive' unless you're referring to hermits & corpses.

Anyone purchasing, selling, consuming or supplying anything to or from any other supplier, consumer, seller or purchaser is economically active.  Even desperately ill people in hospital or prisoners in an HMP somewhere are economically active.  Their very existence causes economic activity.

The phrase: 'Economically inactive' is deliberately and incorrectly used instead of the term 'not working' - Political obfuscation being used where clarity is needed.

I'll be economically inactive next week but I'm sure tesco's and EON will still want me to pay for my fags and electrickery.

Offline Muggins

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8535
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2013, 06:00:33 PM »
That's why we hoot with derision, obviously I'm not working and my purse and cards get used a few times a week, we have savings with interest which banks use to loan to others. etc. etc. how can we not be economically active?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Morsey

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 147
  • Hello !
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2013, 06:42:28 PM »
I am led to believe that Pension Credit for 60 - 65 year old men is only offered to those on private income (Company pensions etc.) if the total income is under a very low figure, savings being under the amount to qualify as well? I would not reveal my income from private pension, but it is extremely small, yet due to current and previous Income Tax levels (Personal Allowance), I pay tax on mine and full Council Tax and it is very hard going I must say as I await 65. Yet, I know of those who just qualify for Pension Credit and who pay little or no Council Tax either!  The figures calculated for the 'poverty line' do not add up at all. I am positive the numbers of people in the same category are significant to unemployment data, though not claiming owt?

There is a period of real belt-tightening for those who cannot, for whatever reason, health, out of date skills and so on, who would not actually qualify for any 'hand-outs' as such, but are only just outside the miniscule income to qualify for benefits. The days of finding a small employment to supplement a small company pension disappeared long ago for those in a period of 'almost reaching State Pension age', but in the limbo period which, as I said seems to not count in the figures of the unemployed.

Offline Des Morgan

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1904
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello !
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2013, 07:47:31 PM »
Quote
But then who would there be to stop the unemployed/disabled etc etc being quite literaly chucked to the lions

Oh please Muggins you can do better than this. Emotion isn't the only reason people do good things and not all emotions are nice.  You cannot seriously suggest only those with an emotional tag are interested in the unemployed etc

People who use logic and rerason also stop the unemployed, disabled etc from 'metaphorically' being chucked to the lions. Which of course they are not literally - so why say they are. That really is stooping low.

Quote
The phrase: 'Economically inactive' is deliberately and incorrectly used instead of the term 'not working' - Political obfuscation being used where clarity is needed.

It may be - but its what we have and what we understand. Of course other descriptions could be used and guess what, someone would find a reason why it isn''t quite right.

Discussing, debating and arguing about semantics is fun but in this case it won't make a jot of difference as 'economically inactive' is the definition of choice for this particular group of people


Offline Mart

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5249
  • Where's my cow?
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2013, 08:29:09 PM »
There is no such thing as 'economically inactive' unless you're referring to hermits & corpses.

And WiFi, it did have a frenzy of economic activity of such complexity some directors got quite muddle headed with it all. Lawks!

Now it is economically inactive.

I'd like to be economically inactive for tax purposes, I suspect some already are.

The people who coin such phrases have no empathy, sympathy or understanding of the people they choose to describe in such ways.

Gits.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Martin Wicks

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Personal Website
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2013, 09:33:39 PM »
Come on Des. Didn't I say people's life circumstances are infinitely variable? The main point about the current situation seems to me to be this. There is a structural jobs crisis, by which I mean not a crisis which is simply the result of an economic downturn. There are not enough jobs for the people who are chasing after them, and need work. Do you agree Des?

Offline Weebleman

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 444
Re: The Advertiser and unemployment
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2013, 10:31:21 PM »
In my view it's the 'uneconomically active' few that are the main problem in this town, not the larger 'economically inactive'.  :banana: