Author Topic: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton  (Read 11395 times)

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Offline Outoftowner

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2014, 02:35:02 PM »
And in the meantime:

Roll Up! Roll Up! A innovative chance to beat the low interest rates of other investments. Invest in a local  Solar Energy Project. Join with Swindon Commercial Services (Director G.J. Perkins) and lend them £500.
 SCS & their Directors are going to build on their past successes in business ( Wi-Fi, Pop up School, etc) by joining with Wiltshire Wildlife Energy Community and with your financial help, obtain government grants (i.e. taxpayer's money) for generating a few megawatts of electricity.

This opportunity is forward looking and vibrant. You cannot loose!

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/11631758.Investors_wanted_for_new_solar_farm/

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SWINDON residents are being offered the opportunity to invest in a solar project.
Developed in a partnership between Wiltshire Wildlife Energy Community (WWCE) and Swindon Commercial Services, planning permission has been granted for a 5MW solar farm at Braydon Manor, near Purton, generating the equivalent power for 1,400 homes.
To fund the £2.7m construction, locals are being given the chance to invest in the project, which WWCE is forecasting will offer a return of about seven per cent.
It is hoped that on top of that, the scheme will also generate more than £2m for community projects.

What's it all about?

Offline Muggins

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2014, 03:41:00 PM »
From their web page: 

Wiltshire Wildlife Community Energy (WWCE) is an independent community enterprise set up to develop, finance and operate community owned renewable energy projects.

WWCE is a practical outcome of WWTs deep commitment to the long term protection of wildlife habitats and biodiversity. It comes from recognition of the intrinsic link between climate change and the real and present threat to the natural world that it represents. The development of community owned renewable energy projects provides WWT with a tangible way of responding to this that underpins and supports its mission.

WWT has worked with Bath & West Community Energy (a local community enterprise already developing community owned renewables projects) to establish WWCE. However, as an independent community organisation, WWCE is controlled by its members on a one member one vote basis, regardless of the level of shareholding.

The Braydon Manor Farm share offer represents an opportunity for local people to invest in WWCE, become members and have a say in how WWCE operates in the future.See here for details of information events.WWCE has been set up as a Community Benefit Society in order to maximise the benefits that are retained locally and are re-invested back into local projects. See here for more information on community benefits.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Spunkymonkey

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2014, 04:51:56 PM »
I don't really understand the logic here. Solar farms are not economically viable without subsidy, so if (big if) they are so wonderful for the environment, why doesn't the government build and invest in them. Private investors will only commit to solar farms if they see a return on their investment, so the Government uses tax payers money to create an artificially inflated return. Wouldn't it be cheaper for the government to invest in the wind farms itself and keep the subsidy (fake profit) for itself?

I was in Gran Canaria is a few weeks ago. A hot island off the cost of North West Africa and yet I didn't see a single solar farm. There are lots of wind turbines along the coat near to the airport (largest wing farm in Spain according to Google), but I saw very few solar panels. Apparently, they have solar powered desalination plants and individual villas might have small solar panels for heating water, but no solar farms.

It strikes me as odd that a country with very favourable conditions seems to be exploiting solar power less than the UK.

Are generous subsidies the real (only) motivation behind UK solar farms?

Offline Outoftowner

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2014, 05:16:55 PM »
Quote
Are generous subsidies the real (only) motivation behind UK solar farms?

Ah....in my 'umble opinion..Yes!
What's it all about?

Offline Mart

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2014, 06:52:35 PM »
No fank you
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Phil Chitty

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2014, 07:36:18 PM »
A lot of the subsidies are paid from a climate change levy which is on all
 Business electric bills.


Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2014, 10:10:10 PM »
if you invest say, £2000 in this scheme then, what would be the returns in terms of £sd....

Offline Muggins

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2014, 09:17:40 AM »
No idea Terry, but as a 'community enterprise' via the Wiltshire Wildlife (what I take to be the trading arm of the) Trust, I would expect you to have a bigger return as a % than with a straight forward 'just for profit' business return.  Although profit is what they will be after to fund the WWT.

Spunky quote: I was in Gran Canaria is a few weeks ago. A hot island off the cost of North West Africa and yet I didn't see a single solar farm. There are lots of wind turbines along the coat near to the airport (largest wing farm in Spain according to Google), but I saw very few solar panels. Apparently, they have solar powered desalination plants and individual villas might have small solar panels for heating water, but no solar farms.


I take it I that hot climate they would take more advantage of direct sunlight and not need the back up of panels that we need here? Maybe with the wind turbines, they don't need any more.


Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Phil Chitty

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2014, 10:01:03 AM »
Strangely, hot climates are. No better for solar power.

Offline Spunkymonkey

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2014, 12:20:31 PM »
No idea Terry, but as a 'community enterprise' via the Wiltshire Wildlife (what I take to be the trading arm of the) Trust, I would expect you to have a bigger return as a % than with a straight forward 'just for profit' business return.  Although profit is what they will be after to fund the WWT.

According to the original article they expect to make a 7% return and generate more than £2m for community projects.

Solar farms aren't profitable without the subsidies, so taxpayers will effectively be giving private investors a generous return. So back to my original question, why don't the government fund these projects themselves and keep the subsidy. Or better still, build a nuclear power station and forget the solar farms.

Offline Muggins

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2014, 03:42:37 PM »
Solar farms aren't profitable without the subsidies.

You sure that's not out of date info Spunky?

May be there is some pump priming cash i.e. something towards getting them built, but not on-going I would think.

Don't we pay tax on our fuel?  If I had a choice I would rather be paying for a solar farm than I would a nuclear power station, and I'd rather be living up wind of one.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline moley

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2014, 11:28:02 PM »
There is a real problem with power stations which unfortunately the free market analysis of power doesn't get.

Demand is variable.

The whole purpose of the national grid is to have power which can be delivered when required to smooth the peaks (typically 4pm - 8pm).

A grid system doesn't work very well with the free market - because people want to know how much their electricity will be up front.

One of the problems is that a lot of types of power station can't easily be turned off and on as electricity is required (it takes time to bring many types of power station on line).

So some of the people who are so against renewables (wind power is a really good example here) because of the "cost" are missing the point (and the reason why wind power is often left in reserve for the peaks - you can get power very quickly from it).

We went to Cruachan (hydro-electric in Scotland) on holiday which was very interesting - it's used for peak generation precisely for this reason: because it can be turned on so quickly.

Electricity demand can be quite unpredictable (e.g. if a news story suddenly breaks or a power station (e.g. Didcot) fails.

Moley

Offline Outoftowner

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2014, 11:13:00 AM »
I'm not against alternative energy sources, far from it. What I am against is subsidising such things.
The British Motor industry was subsidised and what did we get in return? British Coal and British steel were all subsidised. These companies should have been making money for the economy not consuming it!

If a Solar Array, a Wind Farm, Hydro-electric dam or a Tidal Generator is such a good idea, then by all means use government money to research, design and build such things but there must be a pay-back.

Putting solar panel on your house roof is generally a good idea as you should use most of it in your house. This cuts down on "Grid" issues. What we need, rather than the 50% generated "guessed" to be used by the owner and 50% exported, is a decent meter that measures exactly how much is exported and the owner gets paid the market rate for only that.
By the same token owners of Solar Farms should get the market rate for what they export, no more no less.

A quick look at what has happened in Germany might convince you about subsidies. They are far ahead of the UK in renewable energy and what has happened?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2c0e8cec-ed6f-11e3-8a1e-00144feabdc0.html

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As Sigmar Gabriel, Germany’s economy and energy minister, made a speech about significant reforms to the country’s renewable power subsidy scheme, a red light began to blink on the lectern. Without missing a beat, the minister glanced at the warning signal and quipped: “That’ll be the biomass people.”
Germany continues to set itself ambitious targets for its shift to renewables, the Energiewende. By 2035, Europe’s biggest economy will generate up to 60 per cent of its electricity supply from clean sources, according to government plans. Last year, about 23 per cent of Germany’s electricity came from renewables.
But the government is anxious to contain the cost of the transition. The coalition of Angela Merkel’s conservatives and the Social Democrats is determined to curb a subsidy scheme that costs businesses and consumers €24bn a year.
Mr Gabriel’s speech in January outlined a bill that was approved by the German cabinet in April. It aims to curb rising costs by scaling back renewable energy subsidies and placing upper limits on new installations. Feed-in tariffs paid to renewable power generators will be cut to an average across all technologies of €0.12/kWh by 2015, down from a current average of €0.17/kWh.



Since making the above speech, Mr Gabriel has said that, "......Germany's emissions targets cannot be met, that its energy policies were putting their basic industries at risk and that it is not possible to phase out coal fired power stations......."

Do we really want to dive into a known financial quagmire, where the sweet innocence of "Green Ethics" is actually being manipulated by big business waiting for never ending hand outs?
What's it all about?

Offline moley

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2014, 12:35:24 PM »
I think the problem is a subtly different one.

If you are building any sort of new power plant, you want a guaranteed return on investment.

But electricity usage is not constant.

So at least some of the new plants (required because quite a lot of power plants are reaching end of life for various reasons) will not be in use 24x7.

I don't think anyone will want to build *any* sort of peak-only power station without some kind of subsidy.

(This is why IMO electricity generation is something that may not work particularly well in the private sector).  And I'm not a rabid socialist believing everything should be returned to the public sector.... but I'm not sure how you can really make the free market work for electricity generation..  Look where we've got to in terms of the least  spare capacity in our generation system for a very long time + highest prices + greater efficiency in many devices).

Moley

Offline Muggins

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2014, 05:17:59 PM »
Knowing how things work, them upstairs will allow big business to take advantage of it, whatever fuel we are producing, so it might as well be a safe renewable than a polluting fossil fuel. 

We might not get the tax back but we will probably have a safer future.   :hippy:


Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline the gorgon

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2016, 09:36:34 PM »
Any news on whether this solar farm is up and running yet? 

Just been listening to the radio and the developer of a floating solar farm on one of the reservoirs near heathrow said that if their solar farm project wasn't online by the 31st March 2016 it would get a lower feed-in tariff.  Some expert seemed to confirm this by saying a lot of developers were trying to get farms online before the end of the month deadline.

Offline the gorgon

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2016, 11:53:53 AM »
Well to answer my own question they managed to get it up and running last week.  I guess SCS weren't lead contractor then.

https://publicpowersolutions.co.uk/blog/2016-03-wroughton-airfield-solar-park-energised

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2016, 03:15:04 PM »
is this one of the ones the council sold on, then only to see the site sold again for more...... :WTF:

Offline Muggins

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2016, 07:52:25 AM »
Well, whatever, Mr Muggins took a walk up on Barbury a few weeks back and came back enthusing about the size of it, we, maybe not enthusing, but he said it was remarkable, so a few weeks later he insisted on taking me up to see it. And, indeed, there is a huge investment in it and it is huge and looks like more going in.

I wasn't depressed by the sight of it, better that than a nuclear station!  I wouldn't think that just driving alongside of it would give you an idea of just how big it is. 

I also felt that sooner or later there will be much smaller, more efficient ways to capture the sun than those panels and the ground can be restored which is never could be with other means of fossil fuels.  At the same time look over the other way and you can see Adams wind turbines whipping away.  They'll get better too.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline the gorgon

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2016, 10:15:12 AM »
is this one of the ones the council sold on, then only to see the site sold again for more...... :WTF:

Could be, it would explain why it was finished on time though.