Author Topic: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton  (Read 17325 times)

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Brandysnap

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 12:43:55 PM »
Lets hope that The Science Museum are not walking into this with their eyes closed, which I suspect they are.

Lets look quickly at the Wi-Fi "partnership". There were three partners, SBC, Digital City and Aqovia. What did they bring to the party? SBC brought cash, saying, and maybe believing, that it was about one third of the total. Digital City and Aqovia, perhaps unknown to SBC, brought nothing but open hands.

Now the "Pop up Power Station". The Science Museum bring land, SCS bring knowledge of small "Low Voltage" Photo-Voltaic electrical generation installations, SBC bring nothing but open hands.

The Photo-Voltaic installation planned for Wroughton will either be "Medium" or "High Voltage" and it will be different and a much larger installation than SCS have seen before. So perhaps they could be sub-contractors but not the main design or installation contractor.

SBC are attempting to do exactly what Digital City and Aqovia did with Wi-Fi, make money but give no input. They have learned well from their mentor!

As it stands the project lacks a principle design company and financial backing. The Science Museum should look elsewhere for these two things.

Dread the thought that the income from selling Whichelstowe to, perhaps, Waitrose, goes to finance this scheme without a proper, competent management structure in place.

Thinking about this new SBC solar wiforia euphoria in light of (sic) councillors indicating it was a desirable good reason to build a solar powerstation on green space in Shaw. For the inconvertible reason that there  appears to be lots of it available in Shaw. My thoughts are bouncing all over the tip and airfield on this one.

What is intriguing is the word Partnership has slipped into this thread personally for me it is a word that when used by some in the public sector conjures up Orwellian conotations. It is not being used as much today by public officials as it lost some of its fashionability to the word Localism. Also a word that is now perceived by some as a different way of describing backdoor privatisation of public owned assets. Particularly when there is also a desire to use tax payers or public purse money. Some perceive some elected office holders trying desperatly, innovatively and vibrantly to find the use of taxpayers money in this way acceptable. If that is the case why is the taxpayer having some difficulty understanding the acceptability of such perceived wisdom?  A big conversation may assist with this political desire for understanding, will it not?


ph1lc

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2013, 01:28:26 PM »
The idea is brilliant - perfect site.

My major query is the cost. The Adver quotes £50 million. This is way too much.
£30 million is much nearer the mark, based on my calculations of scaling up a smaller project I'm involved in planning.

Offline Muggins

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2013, 01:57:49 PM »
Perhaps they are over estimating so that we don't all moan when it goes over budget.
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Offline Jarvis

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2013, 01:58:46 PM »
The idea is brilliant - perfect site.

My major query is the cost. The Adver quotes £50 million. This is way too much.
£30 million is much nearer the mark, based on my calculations of scaling up a smaller project I'm involved in planning.

The extra £20M is Bluhnder money & trouser'able consultants fees  :santa_grin: :santa_grin: :santa_grin:

Offline Jarvis

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2013, 03:39:02 PM »
What is intriguing is the word Partnership has slipped into this thread personally for me it is a word that when used by some in the public sector conjures up Orwellian conotations. It is not being used as much today by public officials as it lost some of its fashionability to the word Localism. Also a word that is now perceived by some as a different way of describing backdoor privatisation of public owned assets. Particularly when there is also a desire to use tax payers or public purse money. Some perceive some elected office holders trying desperatly, innovatively and vibrantly to find the use of taxpayers money in this way acceptable. If that is the case why is the taxpayer having some difficulty understanding the acceptability of such perceived wisdom?  A big conversation may assist with this political desire for understanding, will it not?

How will this scheme generate profit for those who invest in, or pay for it?  i.e, if Swindon Borough Council decide to back this scheme using money from the public purse - us -  I'd like to know what the finances and projections look like.

Also, Her Majestys Government started 'degressing' feed in tariffs in November 2012 and  also reduced one of the qualifying periods from 25 to 20 years.  I think it's likely that further reductions will occur in tariff payments and qualifying periods so I'd like to know how fragile/robust any business plan is likely to be or whether we're about to witness/pay for another wifi white elephant.

Ph1c: You obviously know more about PV generation than most of us, can you sell the concept and the reality to us?

Offline swindoncentric

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2014, 05:26:24 PM »
As the applications sits in decision limbo in Whitehall, it's interesting that the Swindon Commercial Services homepage has vanished and SCS and SBC have gone 'all out' to make the case for the application.

The SCS site has now become fully about the solar farm plan http://swindoncommercialservices.co.uk as if nothing else matters.

You also know the council are serious about something when they produce a video Wroughton Airfield Solar Park on Vimeo about it. When did the council last devote so much effort to supporting a planning application?

Offline oldtowner

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2014, 08:02:20 PM »
As the applications sits in decision limbo in Whitehall, it's interesting that the Swindon Commercial Services homepage has vanished and SCS and SBC have gone 'all out' to make the case for the application.

The SCS site has now become fully about the solar farm plan http://swindoncommercialservices.co.uk as if nothing else matters.

You also know the council are serious about something when they produce a video Wroughton Airfield Solar Park on Vimeo about it. When did the council last devote so much effort to supporting a planning application?


In 2011 SBC paid 10k to market class solutions and did a dog and pony show to the UK schools building procurement forum. The forum was a month before the planning committee where SBC awarded itself planning permission for a class solutions prototype.

If class solutions had been successful and anyone had shown an iota of interest this would have been plastered across the press and election leaflets. Anyone seen a peep or heard any councillor or officer singing its praises?

Class solutions was supposedly to be built by SCS and may have boon looked on as a money maker? Anyone doing the simplest google search for modular building development could have established the level of competition from real businesses. What due diligence was done on this?

Is a council equipped to set up and manage competitive businesses?

Offline Phil Chitty

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2014, 01:14:24 AM »
Wrought on solar Farm is certainly on the face of it an open goal for SBC, even though the FIT subsidy has been reduced the figures for this type of Solar Farm still add up, due in part to the improvement in panels.

Without access to what will be confidential planning at SBC I can't give a professional opinion, but the figures certainly do add up for this size of Solar Installation.

The two questions I would ask are what are the relative cash investments from SBC and Science Museum and what are the relative distributions of income.

On a technological level, any delay by Pickles could well work in favour of the Council, as the next generation of panels are virtually available in the USA, with increases in efficiency promised that could transform the project financially.

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2014, 11:20:28 PM »
Quote
Wroughton solar Farm is certainly on the face of it an open goal for SBC, even though the FIT subsidy has been reduced the figures for this type of Solar Farm still add up, due in part to the improvement in panels.

Of course what folk tend to forget is that FIT is a subsidy paid out of a levy added to fuel bills. Which in effect means tax payer pounds pay for a solar farm to be built in order that tax payer pounds can be paid as a subsidy and the same taxpayer pounds are then spent on public services.

Offline Spunkymonkey

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2014, 12:27:25 AM »
Quote
Wroughton solar Farm is certainly on the face of it an open goal for SBC, even though the FIT subsidy has been reduced the figures for this type of Solar Farm still add up, due in part to the improvement in panels.

Of course what folk tend to forget is that FIT is a subsidy paid out of a levy added to fuel bills. Which in effect means tax payer pounds pay for a solar farm to be built in order that tax payer pounds can be paid as a subsidy and the same taxpayer pounds are then spent on public services.

Exactly. As solar becomes more popular the bigger the subsidy becomes. Without the subsidy solar is not economically viable, so ultimately solar is dependant on fossil fuels. Not as green as we like to believe.

I firmly believe that the solution lies in reduced energy consumption not alternative energy sources.

Offline Phil Chitty

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2014, 07:40:43 AM »
Quote
Wroughton solar Farm is certainly on the face of it an open goal for SBC, even though the FIT subsidy has been reduced the figures for this type of Solar Farm still add up, due in part to the improvement in panels.

Of course what folk tend to forget is that FIT is a subsidy paid out of a levy added to fuel bills. Which in effect means tax payer pounds pay for a solar farm to be built in order that tax payer pounds can be paid as a subsidy and the same taxpayer pounds are then spent on public services.

Exactly. As solar becomes more popular the bigger the subsidy becomes. Without the subsidy solar is not economically viable, so ultimately solar is dependant on fossil fuels. Not as green as we like to believe.

I firmly believe that the solution lies in reduced energy consumption not alternative energy sources.

You are of course exactly right. However the simple fact is that the government and indeed all major governments in the EC have chosen this as a way of meeting Kyoto targets.

With an array of this size, it is possible to sell the electricity direct to a supplier and effectively subsidise the usage the Council are making elsewhere.

I honestly believe that this is one Business Venture that the Council absolutely should be perusing. 

Offline Mart

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2014, 10:15:55 AM »
I am nosing around a firm called A Shade Greener for no cash required solar installation.

The word free appears a lot in their blurb, and, if I am honest, it is the cheap electric that interests me rather than the polar bear benefits.

I am perfectly content for the taxpayer to subsidise the power required to maintain my windy blinky blue light collection.

If we are serious about being green then I think we would be more successful if we appealed to baser instincts.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2014, 10:23:17 AM »
Mart, I

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2014, 10:25:54 AM »
Mart, I called this firm out to look at my house, and he came looked, and said no your house is good for the panels its the wrong way.
I then got another firm to fit the panels, at my expense, my monthly elec bill is now around £30, and Ive just gone past the first year, and received around £590, in payments, which are not taxable..

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2014, 10:29:07 AM »
Quote
I honestly believe that this is one Business Venture that the Council absolutely should be pursuing.

I agree - I think. And then I think to myself - who is actually gaining?

The council builds a solar farm (or installs panels on council buildings) - the council borrows money to do this and pays interest on the capital sum - which has also to be paid back.

To pay the interest and capital sum the council claim FIT from the energy company.

The energy company collects from the energy user (the tax-payer) an amount equal to the FIT.

So in the end the Council Tax-Payer pays while the bank which loaned the council the money gains and the energy company gains.









Offline Mart

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2014, 10:35:24 AM »
I am a slam dunk for roof orientation, bang on South facing.

I am happy for them to have the FIT and I will have the cheaper electric, they reckon with our occupancy and work patterns a 37% reduction is reasonable, more if you change your habits to exploit the peculiarities of solar power, essentially use as much as you can in daylight.

I am in too good to be true mode at the moment.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2014, 10:44:10 AM »
I wonder on life, that firm has just this moment rang me and asked if I would consider having the panels fitted, I was given two options press 2 to proceed with the fitting or press 8 to have your name removed from the list,   I pressed 8.

Offline Spunkymonkey

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2014, 11:04:21 AM »
I am in too good to be true mode at the moment.

I wonder on life, that firm has just this moment rang me and asked if I would consider having the panels fitted, I was given two options press 2 to proceed with the fitting or press 8 to have your name removed from the list,   I pressed 8.

I am firmly in the too good to be true camp at the moment.

Having recently been off work sick for 4 weeks, I was plagued by an average of 2 cold calls per day from these companies. I may be old cynic but I don't trust any company that resorts to persistent or aggressive cold calling. If the product is so good why doesn't it sell itself.

Cold calling is the method of choice for double glazing firms, time share companies, PPI claims, ambulance chasing lawyers, conmen offering to fix my computer, fake lottery wins, cavity wall insulation and now solar panels. Not a particularly reputable group of industries, hence my caution.

Offline Phil Chitty

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2014, 05:24:58 PM »
I am in too good to be true mode at the moment.

I wonder on life, that firm has just this moment rang me and asked if I would consider having the panels fitted, I was given two options press 2 to proceed with the fitting or press 8 to have your name removed from the list,   I pressed 8.

I am firmly in the too good to be true camp at the moment.

Having recently been off work sick for 4 weeks, I was plagued by an average of 2 cold calls per day from these companies. I may be old cynic but I don't trust any company that resorts to persistent or aggressive cold calling. If the product is so good why doesn't it sell itself.

Cold calling is the method of choice for double glazing firms, time share companies, PPI claims, ambulance chasing lawyers, conmen offering to fix my computer, fake lottery wins, cavity wall insulation and now solar panels. Not a particularly reputable group of industries, hence my caution.

Your reticence is perfectly understandable. The considerations to having panels fitted to your home are entirely different.

Given that the payback if panels are to be financed will be around 10 years and that is a longer period than people on average stay in a house, you have to be sure that you'll be lining there long enough to make it worthwhile. If you were to chose to let the Co. Pay for the panels and you just benefit from the free electric you need to think long and hard about the implications should you wish to sell the property.

That  said, with the FIT for every unit generated regardless of if you use it or not, plus either free electric or 4.5p per unit export tarif for any not used, all index linked and guaranteed for20 years then they can be a good investment, at today's interest rates.

Offline Muggins

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Re: SCS proposal for a solar farm in Wroughton
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2014, 05:59:03 PM »
Phil Quote "Given that the payback if panels are to be financed will be around 10 years and that is a longer period than people on average stay in a house"

We wish Phil. Ten years is longer than we can be sure of staying on Earth!
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)