Author Topic: Story in Adver - Nick Martin  (Read 26526 times)

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Offline Tea Boy

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Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« on: October 17, 2012, 04:28:42 PM »
After reading the adver today, have we a Jimmy in our midst? :wink: :wink:

yeah, but without the looks or the money >:D now then. now then......
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 08:47:28 PM by Tobes »


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Offline I Could Do That

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Re: Jimmy Saville.
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 05:05:08 PM »
Ah but, 'ows about, 'ows about?  >:D
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Offline the gorgon

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Re: Jimmy Saville.
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 06:10:47 PM »
Goodness gracious, guys and gals.

Jangle jangle, jewellery jewellery (or doesn't the deputy get the nice big necklace?).

 >:D

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Jimmy Saville.
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 06:39:31 PM »
At least Nick Martin is alive and able to defend himself, which I expect him to do vigorously.

Having been accused by the police on a Saturday Night, when you would expect they would have more important issues to deal with, of taking photographs of Children in Walcot Library I know exactly how he feels.  Although I offered immediate access to my computer to show them the photographs I had taken, they refused, which at the time made me very angry.  If I have one regret is that I did not turn it on its head and instruct a Barrister for damages.  But that then, as they say is history, but it still rankles.

As for Jimmy Savile I am very uncomfortable about the whole business and whilst I agree it should be investigated and counselling and assessment of the affected people should be given, it should be done out of the public eye and away from the 'injury' lawyers who are set to make a fortune.

As for the article it makes interesting reading from which you should make your own deductions.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9988295.Swindon_s_deputy_mayor_vows_to_fight_sexual_harassment_claim/
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Offline Tobes

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Re: Nick Martin - Abuse claim (topic split)
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2012, 09:02:10 PM »
Good idea to split this topic. This is likely to be a big story over the next few weeks.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Tobes

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Re: Story in Adver
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2012, 08:46:45 PM »
News on this one will be out over the next couple of days...

The case was heard today...
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2012, 05:55:39 AM »

Quote from: Cllr Martin
“By some coincidence, on May 21 an officer who had responsibility over Lydiard Park lodged a complaint against me, and that disabled any value for money or management reviews I could have conducted.”

What is it with Lydiard Park?, I remember the politically inspired nastiness - including politically generated lurid rumours of the sexual relationship between a high profile officer and former business sponsors of Lydiard Park which appeared to concidentally peak with the ousting of Sarah Finch-Crisp from her former position at Lydiard.  I'm wondering whether a recurring modus operandi is being uncovered here and if someone is reaping a bitter harvest of their own sowing.  Sounds like Cllr Martin is alleging that the complaint is made by someone being fearful of losing their job because of his interest in them.

Coun Martin said:

Quote
“The full finance and weight of the borough’s HR department seems to have supported the person making the allegation, whereas I’m being obliged, out of my pension, to pay for my own barrister to give me appropriate advice in the circumstances, which is extremely unfair.”

Ah, it seems that, having gotten away with treating the public like shit for so long, it comes as something of a surprise to Cllr Martin that Council employees enjoy some protection from abuse. 

Coun Martin also said:

Quote from: Cllr Martin
“Just because somebody else from the cultural area of the council corroborated the words doesn’t necessarily mean I said them.” 

But it also might well mean that he did say them, and did act in the manner alleged.

It seems a bit odd that Cllr Martin has formally engaged a barrister although no criminal charges have yet been laid against him. I would have thought his mate Russell would advise him pro bono publico, (with Cllr Martin being 'the public'), but perhaps a misconstrued/perfectly well understood* comment about his Bono in Publico is what lies at the root of the allegation against him..... 

* Delete as approriate

Offline jennyb

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2012, 07:37:34 AM »
Cllr Martin's comments regarding the need for him to pay for his own legal advice ( whether this is premature instruction or not) is on it's own quite instructive.

If he feels that it is not fair that he has to pay for expert advice to deal with this Council.. then why is  this not fair when it comes to the public?

Is the £ in the public's pocket of less value or easier to earn or save than the £ in Cllr Martin's pocket?

Or he is issuing the standard politician's lament.... oh woe is me?

On another note... how did a standards complaint get into the Adver before it was to be heard? Did Cllr Martin compromise confidentiality by speaking about this?

If a member of the public who had raised a complaint spoke to the Adver about it before it had been heard by the panel... what would happen?

Or is there one set of rules for Cllrs and another for the public.... again?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 08:21:43 AM by jennyb »
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Tobes

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2012, 12:00:13 PM »
Its a VERY interesting case...

Anyone heard what the result was? PLENTY of rumours rife it seems...  ???
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2012, 12:02:48 PM »
report in the adver, seems he has to write a letter of apology, do some 'training' etc etc, so it would aslo seem found guilty !!.
some da that was !! :wink:

Offline Tobes

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2012, 12:20:15 PM »
Quote
it should be done out of the public eye and away from the 'injury' lawyers who are set to make a fortune.

Why does it make you so uncomfortable? Savile was not only bang to rights, given the huge amount of evidence and witness statements coming to light - but its also a very important insight into how people in positions of authority can use their influence to subvert the course of justice. (Also, those same people often have pockets deep enough to hire expensive lawyers or barristers to try and slew an advantage...)

Savile was a shameless self-publicist, and someone who used his public position to get close to his victims - but you want the investigation to be run in private? Why? I think this should be done as much in the public eye as possible. What should be limited is the prurient aspects - but as long as the majority of the population hungrily devour the pap fed them by the tabloids, I guess that's unavoidable. Its car-crash media. Instead of people bleating about the worst aspects of fleet street - they should exercise some judgement and stop buying the papers who are the worst offenders...

BTW, your comment about injury lawyers seems somewhat 'misguided' - you clearly can't sue someone for injury when they're dead.

[EDIT - this reply was to Richard Symonds post which seems to have been deleted...?]
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Bassettina

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2012, 12:57:41 PM »

On another note... how did a standards complaint get into the Adver before it was to be heard? Did Cllr Martin compromise confidentiality by speaking about this?

If a member of the public who had raised a complaint spoke to the Adver about it before it had been heard by the panel... what would happen?

Or is there one set of rules for Cllrs and another for the public.... again?

Rather concerning. I'm not sure the victim would have been allowed to do something similar. It also presents a worrying insight into what people (including staff) could face when they challenge councillors.

Offline jennyb

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2012, 02:08:10 PM »

On another note... how did a standards complaint get into the Adver before it was to be heard? Did Cllr Martin compromise confidentiality by speaking about this?

If a member of the public who had raised a complaint spoke to the Adver about it before it had been heard by the panel... what would happen?

Or is there one set of rules for Cllrs and another for the public.... again?

Rather concerning. I'm not sure the victim would have been allowed to do something similar. It also presents a worrying insight into what people (including staff) could face when they challenge councillors.

It is of concern that a cllr with so many years of experience and who, as it stands, will supposedly represent Swindon as Mayor in 2013 is deemed to be unable to recognise what is inappropriate behaviour.  Just who will deliver this 'training' and what will it be? How will this be monitored? Will it have to be signed off/assessed within a given period? 

Is the gentleman appropriate Mayoral material?

As to insight into what the public face when challenging councillors... from personal experience it can be very shabby and intimidatory. 

Thankfully not all councillors behave in this way. 

Sadly several do.

It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2012, 02:43:16 PM »
jenny B, Just who will deliver this 'training' and what will it be? How will this be monitored? Will it have to be signed off/assessed within a given period? 

I had some concerns with this being lumped with comments about Jimmy Saville, in my opinion the two cases are not comparable and still hold this opinion.

However if the adver have fairly reported what was said and decided, then I'd agree with Jenny and question the validity of who does what from now on.  A lot of best practice and values around this sort of thing, i.e. how you treat people etc. have been dumped by SBC - no not dumped, just not promoted, not learned, not bothered with, rather than a purposeful 'dump'. 

I think it will be up to all of us and colleagues to keep an eye on that 'who does what' from now on.

Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Tobes

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2012, 05:03:57 PM »
Quote
I had some concerns with this being lumped with comments about Jimmy Saville, in my opinion the two cases are not comparable and still hold this opinion.

OK, agreed. Thats why I originally asked for a topic split. Lets all please keep this thread on subject from now on.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Mart

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2012, 07:31:32 PM »
jenny B, Just who will deliver this 'training' and what will it be?

Oooh, me, me!

I absolutelyfeckinguarantee success. I'll bring me own car battery and crocodile clips.

A preview of my training methods can be found in Tom Sharpe's Rioutous Assembly. Most efficaceous.

Anybody who surfs the wave of public opinion and affection gets no sympathy from me when the wave crashes down and they suddenly get a craving to be 'normal'.

Dear gawd, they'll expect the Queen to pay road tax next or MP's to pay full whack in their restaurant.

Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline carole bent

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2012, 08:41:23 PM »
Seems to me that some councillors act properly and some don't . I've seen plenty of both over the past couple of years.

Seems overdue to show the door to the " We can do what we like" attitude of some old school ones - and for a raising of standards to match the behaviour of the best of the councillors.


Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2012, 09:36:18 PM »
Seems to me that some councillors act properly and some don't . I've seen plenty of both over the past couple of years.

Seems overdue to show the door to the " We can do what we like" attitude of some old school ones - and for a raising of standards to match the behaviour of the best of the councillors.

Hear, hear....

Offline Richard Beale

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2012, 10:39:23 PM »
As an ex-council officer who had regular contact with Nick Martin. A bully? Yes, but then so are other councillors. Certainly not to be trusted under any circumstances, we were warned about Nick Martin almost straight away. I would trust him as far as I could spit him. 

Would just like to add another thought. Sexual harrasment is gross misconduct for SBC employees , as such if your caught you can be instantly dismissed.

Shame the same can't be said of our elected representitives. Looks to me like they get a slap on wrist and told not to do it again.

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2012, 11:26:24 PM »
The verdict is out - Coun Martin acted inappropriately towards Helen Miah a senior officer by touching her hair, using the phrase 'Ducks Arse' in describing her hair style and saying he had wanted to say and do that all night.

Let's see if that is what any reasonable person would call sexual harrassment. Starting with the easy issue of the three. The dictionary definition of 'Duck's Arse) is 'The duck's ass (or, in the UK, duck's arse) is a haircut style that was popular during the 1950s' - I think a reasonable person would accept that if Coun Martin referred to Ms Miah's hair cut as being a 'Duck's Arse' he was being descriptive and not offensive.

As for touching her hair - given he was not found guilty of 'running his finger up her neck' as claimed, but only of touching her hair, have we truly reached a situation where a person's hair is now off limits in the same way as parts of the anatomy quite correctly are

As for his silly schoolboy comment that he had wanted to touch her hair and tell her it was 'Duck's Arse' - that is quite pathetic but hardly the stuff of a sexual harrassment claim.

I know Helen and feel sure she is more than capable of dealing with the likes of Coun Martin or indeed any man who seeks to invade her space. Sadly there does appear to be a festering sore between the two of them with Helen having made a complaint about Coun Martin on a previous occasion some years ago. This does have the whiff of 'timely vengeance' about it.

Having said all of that I do think Coun Martin needs to be more careful as we have reached a stage in the evolution of relationships where to smile 'wrongly' might be deemed a 'lear' by some, why didn't she just hit him if she was so offended   or was this a case of 'revenge is a dish best served cold'

To be clear I think Coun Martin to be a prat but nothing else