Author Topic: Story in Adver - Nick Martin  (Read 26594 times)

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Offline Chav

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2012, 09:43:57 PM »
Yes, well it's all very well to wonder, but take my advice (though I know you won't) don't go over and run your fingers through it!  Don't say "that's what I call a big greasy quiff"

What about....

mmmm that looks like a big cornish pasty made of liquorice slurp slobber munch munch

(yes I've made myself feel a bit queasy too)

Oh no !
You've just put an idea into my head !
This weekend I am going to make sweet type mini pasties with a blackjack and fruit salad ( yes the chewy sweets themselves) filling .
I have been thinking of something weird to make for Halloween and now I have it !  >:D
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Brian V Cockbill

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2012, 03:04:36 AM »
Can anybody remember what happened to the last Deputy Mayor to have a standards complaint upheld at a Standard's Hearing?    What did Dr Lister do?   Should Deputy Mayor Martin go the same way?
Brian V Cockbill

Offline Tobes

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2012, 06:26:12 AM »
for those who don't remember...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4287994.stm
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Chav

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2012, 08:49:14 PM »
for those who don't remember...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4287994.stm


I remember  :-\

Every day communication is all about the sender, receiver, the context and the play on words including meanings and sub-meanings.

What is normal these days with language and communication ?

There is debate, banter, innuendo, phrases, sayings,  idioms, the body language , gesture, facial expression, tone and contex.

And how we present ourselves ........... Well that depends on personality, mood, environment , situation and frame of mind or mindset


We are complicated beings aren't we  :)
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline boothill

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2012, 01:14:31 PM »
Complicated beings ?    YES !

Only last week a lady friend of mine asked me for an example of double entendre....so I gave her one !
Old people believe everything...middle aged people suspect everything...young people know everything    3 2 1 back in the room !

Offline Chav

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #65 on: October 25, 2012, 02:37:06 PM »
Complicated beings ?    YES !

Only last week a lady friend of mine asked me for an example of double entendre....so I gave her one !

 :o
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Bassettina

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2012, 04:39:09 PM »
Quote
COUNCIL leader Rod Bluh says he is still backing Coun Nick Martin to be Swindon’s next mayor – even though he has been penalised for behaving inappropriately towards a senior officer at the civic dinner.

In a statement, he said: “The findings of the standards hearing do not detract from Coun Martin’s ability to discharge the office of deputy mayor. “Custom and practice is that the person who is deputy mayor is nominated to succeed to the position of mayor and there is no reason for this not to be the case again next year. Coun Martin can continue the traditional mayoral role of being an excellent supporter of charities and community groups in Swindon.”

However, opposition parties, whose support could be key in the vote, say they are reviewing their support.

Coun Jim Grant, the Labour group leader, said: “Firstly, I want to stress the importance of all of Swindon’s councillors behaving appropriately and respectfully to all residents and council officers.

“For the mayor and deputy mayor, with their higher public profiles, this is perhaps even more important.

“I think the allegations and the judgement made against Coun Martin does make it more difficult for the Labour group to support his nomination to be the mayor of Swindon next year.” However, the Labour group will not make a final decision until closer to the time of the annual council meeting, when Swindon’s councillors decide who will be mayor and deputy mayor.

Coun Stan Pajak, the Lib Dem group leader, said: “It’s so unbelievable anybody could be so silly and do that type of thing, and that may be reflected in our support. But it’s hard to know without knowing the full facts.”



http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10008640.Nick_Martin_can_still_be_mayor__says_council_leader/

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2012, 05:46:06 PM »
Quote from: Roderick Bluh
“The findings of the standards hearing do not detract from Coun Martin’s ability to discharge the office of deputy mayor.


The verdict of the standards committee concerns his behaviour, not his ability to 'discharge' anything other than his pocket rocket. Allegedly.

Quote from: Roderick Bluh
“Custom and practice is that the person who is deputy mayor is nominated to succeed to the position of mayor and there is no reason for this not to be the case again next year.

I rather think there are several reasons to carefully consider whether Cllr Martin, having recently been found guilty of inappropriately touching a female council employee, is a fit and proper person to continue as deputy Mayor, let alone become the Mayor next year.  There is also the matter of whether he deliberately lied, attempted to smear the complainant to save himself, and conducted his main defence in the local newspaper to consider.  Had the complaint been a criminal one he would have been guilty of contempt of court. 

Quote from: Roderick Bluh
Coun Martin can continue the traditional mayoral role of being an excellent supporter of charities and community groups in Swindon.”

I wonder what the charities themselves, and the people benefiting from the assistance of those charities, feel about Cllr Bluh's endorsement of Cllr Martin?, presumably some of those charities will be involved in caring for women who have been the victims of sexual abuse/harassment etc?  Has Cllr Bluh canvassed opinion on the matter or has he issued another of his grand 'not a shred of evidence' proclamations.....oh, yes, I see that he has, via his "no reason for this not to be the case again", comment.


And the opposition?

Coun Jim Grant, the Labour group leader, said: [my bold emphasis]

Quote from: Cllr Grant
“Firstly, I want to stress the importance of all of Swindon’s councillors behaving appropriately and respectfully to all residents and council officers. “For the mayor and deputy mayor, with their higher public profiles, this is perhaps even more important.

“I think the allegations and the judgement made against Coun Martin does make it more difficult for the Labour group to support his nomination to be the mayor of Swindon next year.” However, the Labour group will not make a final decision until closer to the time of the annual council meeting, when Swindon’s councillors decide who will be mayor and deputy mayor.

A predictable 'politically safe' answer which is also ambiguous, weak and politically expedient.  The standards committee published their verdict last week but the Labour group will wait another 7 months before it will announce what its position is?   This isn't an encouraging sign from someone who wants - expects in fact - to be leading the council at some point.

A short piece of advice Jim: Get real, real fast.....or get out of the way.  Swindon doesn't need or want another Bluh in the big seat, and it certainly doesn't need a political prevaricator who will wait to see which way the wind is blowing 7 months in the future to give a straight answer in the here and now ffs.


And Old Pinnochio himself?


Coun Stan Pajak, the Lib Dem group leader, said: [my bold emphasis]

Quote from: Cllr Pajak
“It’s so unbelievable anybody could be so silly and do that type of thing, and that may be reflected in our support. But it’s hard to know without knowing the full facts.”

How does that old saying go? - "Everything before the 'but' is bullshit".  I level exactly the same criticisms at Pinnochio that I levelled at Jim Grant.  I'm singularly under impressed by their lack of moral fibre and the level of political slipperiness present in the careful choice of words deployed whilst saying nothing relevant or substantial about the here and now.  The careful propping-open of the fire escape door is so obvious as to be puke making.

Similarly, I continue to be disappointed-but-unsurprised by Cllr Bluh's inability or deliberate refusal, to acknowledge that one of his political colleagues has been found guilty of perpetrating a genuinely vile act upon a female employee of the council which he, Roderick Bluh leads. 

In the absence of any statement by Cllr Bluh to the contrary, and noting Cllr Bluh's multiple expressions of support for Cllr Martin, and his very clear statement that there is "no reason" why Cllr Martin should not be Mayor in 2013.....

....I'm of the opinion that the Leader Of Swindon Borough Council disagrees with the decision of the Standards Committee and does not see anything wrong with the behaviour for which Cllr Martin has been found guilty. 

I don't like the regressive attitudes being displayed by any of the political 'leaders' at present and we're not hearing much from female cllr's. Why is that?





Offline Muggins

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2012, 06:03:14 PM »
I wonder what the Women's Sections of the political parties are thinking about this? 

And exactly how many charities and commmunity groups will be inviting him anywhere?

Seeing as how it's mostly women that lead them?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Tobes

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2012, 06:44:00 PM »
Nick Martin has been found guilty by what is effectively a jury of his own peers.

He has made no public apology (aside from the private letter he has been asked to write to Helen Miah), has he? . Surely, regardless of his personal opinion as to what constitutes sexual harassment / inappropriate behaviour - or whether he believes that the complaint was motivated by a personal grudge, he has been found guilty. Any normal honourable person would either apologize - or step down as deputy mayor until such time that the issue of their suitability was fully resolved.

I'd suggest someone worthy of representing the town - and who genuinely WANTED to show the place in the best light - would offer a public apology as a matter of course. I would also expect his political colleagues to be pressuring him to publicly eat a very large piece of humble pie, rather than appearing to endorse his actions by being openly supportive.

Does it seem strange that certain councillors are eager to cite personal offence when it comes to satirical articles and to play on their jewish heritage - and yet so singularly fail to speak out in support of someone who also genuinely felt physically as well as mentally violated - and was judged to have been so by the perpetrators own political colleagues?

 ???
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 07:14:12 PM by Tobes »
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Bobby Bingo

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2012, 07:45:40 PM »
Remember Dr. Owen Lister 6th March 2008  A precedent has been set.
Bobby

Offline Des Moffatt

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2012, 08:24:23 PM »
Contributors are relying on what the Adver says was the verdict of the Standards Committee.
When the actual minute emerges from the Council sausage machine I will post it

Offline carole bent

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #72 on: October 26, 2012, 10:11:44 PM »
The fact that Cllr Martin apparently chose to vehemently deny any wrongdoing  - as plastered across the front of our local paper  - just days before the standards meeting   could well have led to more sleepless nights for an officer due to present her case just days later. How was this in the paper in advance of the hearing?

Did Cllr Martin consider her wellbeing at any stage  or was his sole concern the attempted protection of his own reputation ?

Did he care about the impact on her life during the lengthy process?

By denying his conduct in such a way, was he aware that he was questioning her truthfulness in the most public of ways?

Was due concern shown for her reputation by the public implication that her version wasn't the truth ?

Who advised Cllr Martin ? Whose values are being respected or protected?

By rejecting the findings of his own colleagues , does he trust in their ability ? or in due process?

I have no personal experience of Cllr Martin but agree with Tobes statement that " Any normal honourable person would either apologize - or step down as deputy mayor until such time that the issue of their suitability was fully resolved.

Seems clear that higher standards are needed as a priority - Are the best of our councillors demanding this ?

Who is actively leading on this?

Offline Tobes

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #73 on: October 26, 2012, 11:16:02 PM »
Quote
The fact that Cllr Martin apparently chose to vehemently deny any wrongdoing  - as plastered across the front of our local paper  - just days before the standards meeting   could well have led to more sleepless nights for an officer due to present her case just days later. How was this in the paper in advance of the hearing?

One can only conclude that this was a deliberate decision taken by councillor Martin. A very questionable decision for the reasons you outline - and one not vindicated by the results of the panel, either.

Quote
Did he care about the impact on her life during the lengthy process?

By denying his conduct in such a way, was he aware that he was questioning her truthfulness in the most public of ways?

Was due concern shown for her reputation by the public implication that her version wasn't the truth ?

Who advised Cllr Martin ? Whose values are being respected or protected?

By rejecting the findings of his own colleagues , does he trust in their ability ? or in due process?

I have no personal experience of Cllr Martin but agree with Tobes statement that " Any normal honourable person would either apologize - or step down as deputy mayor until such time that the issue of their suitability was fully resolved.

Seems clear that higher standards are needed as a priority - Are the best of our councillors demanding this ?

Spot on.

I can only speculate that Mr Martin would argue that as he disagreed with the accusation that he behaved improperly, he had no option but to fight the case... but that said, it seems to me that this was very much about how he made - through his own actions - someone in a subordinate position feel. Given that, I wonder if the whole pantomime and stress would have been saved if he'd simply held up his hands and said 'I'm genuinely sorry if I made you feel awkward, I was merely trying to be friendly after we'd not got on in the past - I accept that you found my actions inappropriate, I am sorry for making you feel uncomfortable'. Instead, he foolishly indulged in a PR battle by leading the story to the Adver and announcing that he'd taken on a barrister (? a strange choice, given that this was not a court of law). Why a prospective mayor thought that this was a good idea, Lord only knows. Who was advising him, one wonders?

Quote
Who is actively leading on this?

Therein lies the main problem with SBC and the party system. A large flock of sheep, dominated by a few ruthless (and often bizarrely naive) wolves.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #74 on: October 26, 2012, 11:42:27 PM »
Contributors are relying on what the Adver says was the verdict of the Standards Committee.
When the actual minute emerges from the Council sausage machine I will post it

Thanks Des, that will make for interesting reading although, considering the steady erosion in quality, integrity and credibility of council minutes, the Adver articles, bolstered by the personal integrity of the authoring journalist, might yet remain the most credible source :-)

Offline carole bent

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #75 on: October 27, 2012, 09:13:29 AM »
Tobes - you wrote that : " I wonder if the whole pantomime and stress would have been saved if he'd simply held up his hands and said 'I'm genuinely sorry if I made you feel awkward, I was merely trying to be friendly after we'd not got on in the past - I accept that you found my actions inappropriate, I am sorry for making you feel uncomfortable' Who was advising him, one wonders?"

 I wasn't there so I can't comment on what happened , but I know that the SBC officer involved isn't the type of person to cry wolf , she is a credible  individual and if she said that she had been distressed and concerned, in normal life shouldn't this have been addressed immediatly?

I don't know Cllr Martin at all , but would hope that anyone ( particularly in any position of authority )who felt that they had caused hurt or  harm - whether intentionally or not - would feel able to put their hands up - if highlighted properly - and apologise.
The quicker faults are highlighted, the sooner the upset is mended & damage is limited.
The longer it is allowed - or promoted - to fester, the worse it feels - both for the victim, who feels the further injustice of the delay - and probably the person accused too.

What may have begun as being distasteful becomes amplified 10 fold because of poor handling after the event.

" Sorry"  is  5 letters long & takes only 2 seconds to say , so is it culture,  position, politics, fear or self protectionism that seems to get in the way too much of the time ?

Whoever is advising anything other than  face to face open, honest, transparent dialogue isn't helping at all.

I must still have a few bits of idealism left in me as I don't fully agree with your line about SBC " a large flock of sheep, dominated by a few ( bizarrely naive) wolves ."

 I agree that the party politics , block ( sheep) voting definatly seems to get in the way and some  wolf types lurk about - but I also see enough real councillors and officers and residents of swindon who are more than decent and able enough to make a real difference.

I can't remember the exact words - but there's a quote about " all it takes for bad to happen is for good people to do nothing."

There are more than enough good people throughout who , for whatever reason have allowed some bad stuff to happen - whether intentionally or not.

Isn't it time  to put more energy and emphasis on contributing to more of the  "good" in place of "bad"  and to create higher standards from now on?

Isn't it in everyone's interests to do this? Isn't it better for our town and all of us who live here ?


Offline Tobes

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #76 on: October 27, 2012, 11:04:12 AM »
Quote
There are more than enough good people throughout who , for whatever reason have allowed some bad stuff to happen - whether intentionally or not.

Just a thought, but a 'good' person who does nothing and allows bad things to happen is essentially well on the path to being bad themselves. If unintended consequences are repeatedly to blame, then the very best that can be said about the supposedly 'good' councillors is that they're incompetent.

There's far too much apathy, vacillation, self-interested line towing and lack of integrity going on within the walls of SBC.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Muggins

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #77 on: October 27, 2012, 01:35:12 PM »
Ah, it's that old Martin Luther King quote again, something like  "It's not the violent acts and vitriolic words of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people"   etc.

But true Tobes.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline carole bent

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #78 on: October 27, 2012, 02:40:08 PM »
I can think of plenty of good people who may well have made some bad decisions in their time - but it doesnt necessarily make them bad people... does it depend on how scale and frequency?

Does it make someone a " bad person" for putting out 5000 leaflets to assure residents in their ward that " The Croft Experience" could NEVER happen there...and then intervening to prevent a truly external review as wanted by the people who lived through such an experience ...... or is that a good person behaving badly? Or a good person thinking they are acting well? Or none of the above.

If more people insisted on better, maybe standards could rise more quickly. There seem plenty of decent enough people around that could reflect on their contribution and ask what Martin Luther King would think!




Offline Muggins

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #79 on: October 27, 2012, 03:51:30 PM »
Don't know what he would think, but would love to be able to ask him.

It's like most things, not done with venom, but with ignorance.

i think he was talking about non action, not a mistaken action.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)