Author Topic: Story in Adver - Nick Martin  (Read 26248 times)

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Offline Des Morgan

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2012, 06:46:01 PM »
 
Quote
like to think so - I'm not as partisan as other would like you to believe


I know that Geoff, as I know you know that i would never ever refrain from 'having and expressing' a view that I felt deserved an airing

Having been on the receiving end of what i believe was 'bullying' in respect of treatment meted out by Coun Bluh, Coun Perkins and Coun Foley (all of which were dismissed when i complained) I think I can speak with some degree of knowledge on the subject.

Des Moffat speak about his experience and eloquently draws attention to the various degrees of bullying behaviour.  I hope Bob Wright will expand this with me on the radio tomorrow

Offline Alex

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2012, 07:06:58 PM »
Having worked with people who have been bullied / harassed for many years- and having experienced it myself, and been instrumental in trying to eradicate it in the workplace,  I have found the work done by the late Tim Fields to be valuable :  http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/bully.htm#Difference%20between%20bullying%20and%20harassment

He clarified  the different types of bullying and what constituted harassment.  He was very insightful and  it is useful to have this as a reference when you feel you may have been the victim of such behaviour .

Offline AnnCalsox

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2012, 10:17:51 PM »
Given his behaviour and the finding of the investigation is it appropriate for Cllr Martin to become Mayor next year?


Offline Des Morgan

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2012, 10:26:30 PM »
I can think of people who have held the office who had done things which were more inappropriate.

On a scale of 1 to 10 where does this issue sit and at what point in the scale does Coun Martin's conduct warrant his removal from the role of Deputy Mayor?

For my part, I didn't think he was the right person for Deputy Mayor in the first place.  This issue is only a side show and probably does not resonate with the public outside of the Civic Offices and us hardy souls on TS.

I do think it strange that his Leader has become akin to a Trappist Monk - surely he has something to add to the debate or will he now luxuriate in the discomfort that Coun Martin now finds himself.


Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2012, 11:40:00 PM »

I do think it strange that his Leader has become akin to a Trappist Monk - surely he has something to add to the debate or will he now luxuriate in the discomfort that Coun Martin now finds himself.


I expect he is enjoying it, afterall, Cllr Bluh has worked extraordinarily hard to keep Cllr Martin at the very margins of the political wilderness since the wholly invented and fake leadership challenge of April 2009. It was another episode in which Cllr Bluh played the 'Poor Me' card. (now exhausted).

See: Business leaders back Bluh's leadership

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"Coun Martin has denied he is challenging for either Coun Bluh or Coun Foley’s role"


If I remember correctly the Perkinator first betrayed Nick Martin and then abandoned him, bleeding in a political ditch [figuratively speaking], before skipping merrily off to accept a remunerated cabinet position from Cllr Bluh who had again cracked open the pork barrel in self defence.....

I'm also pretty sure that another innocent casualty of this action was Mayor Wakefield who, whilst in office, was unable to defend himself against the political machinations of his former 'colleagues'.


I haven't yet found the TS thread which discussed this properly, but here's another Adver article about the fake challenge, in which Cll Martin said:

Quote from: Cllr Nick Martin
“Any rumours about a leadership challenge have not been started by me. They have probably been generated by issues between the leader and other members of the administration who have then used them as a stick to beat me.

“I think the people spreading these rumours are being very mischevious. 

Offline Muggins

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2012, 08:53:00 AM »
Thanks for the link Alex, although it was a lot of reading, I did, not because of this thread, but there is an issue in the community at the moment.  I found this most interesting, not saying it's appropriate to this thread, but still interesting, sort of leaving myslef a post-it note memo: 

Personality Disorders

There's more on Personality Disorders at http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/ourdesk.htm

Avoiding acceptance of responsibility - denial, counterattack and feigning victimhood

The serial bully is an adult on the outside but a child on the inside; he or she is like a child who has never grown up. One suspects that the bully is emotionally retarded and has a level of emotional development equivalent to a five-year-old, or less. The bully wants to enjoy the benefits of living in the adult world, but is unable and unwilling to accept the responsibilities that go with enjoying the benefits of the adult world. In short, the bully has never learnt to accept responsibility for their behaviour.

When called to account for the way they have chosen to behave, the bully instinctively exhibits this recognisable behavioural response:

a) Denial: the bully denies everything. Variations include Trivialization ("This is so trivial it's not worth talking about...") and the Fresh Start tactic ("I don't know why you're so intent on dwelling on the past" and "Look, what's past is past, I'll overlook your behaviour and we'll start afresh") - this is an abdication of responsibility by the bully and an attempt to divert and distract attention by using false conciliation. Imagine if this line of defence were available to all criminals ("Look I know I've just murdered 12 people but that's all in the past, we can't change the past, let's put it behind us, concentrate on the future so we can all get on with our lives" - this would do wonders for prison overcrowding).

b) Retaliation: the bully counterattacks. The bully quickly and seamlessly follows the denial with an aggressive counter-attack of counter-criticism or counter-allegation, often based on distortion or fabrication. Lying, deception, duplicity, hypocrisy and blame are the hallmarks of this stage. The purpose is to avoid answering the question and thus avoid accepting responsibility for their behaviour. Often the target is tempted - or coerced - into giving another long explanation to prove the bully's allegation false; by the time the explanation is complete, everybody has forgotten the original question.

Both a) and b) are delivered with aggression in the guise of assertiveness; in fact there is no assertiveness (which is about recognising and respecting the rights of oneself and others) at all. Note that explanation - of the original question - is conspicuous by its absence.

c) Feigning victimhood: in the unlikely event of denial and counter-attack being insufficient, the bully feigns victimhood or feigns persecution by manipulating people through their emotions, especially guilt. This commonly takes the form of bursting into tears, which most people cannot handle. Variations include indulgent self-pity, feigning indignation, pretending to be "devastated", claiming they're the one being bullied or harassed, claiming to be "deeply offended", melodrama, martyrdom ("If it wasn't for me...") and a poor-me drama ("You don't know how hard it is for me ... blah blah blah ..." and "I'm the one who always has to...", "You think you're having a hard time ...", "I'm the one being bullied..."). Other tactics include manipulating people's perceptions to portray themselves as the injured party and the target as the villain of the piece. Or presenting as a false victim. Sometimes the bully will suddenly claim to be suffering "stress" and go off on long-term sick leave, although no-one can quite establish why. Alleged ill-health can also be a useful vehicle for gaining attention and sympathy. For suggestions on how to counter this see the advice on the FAQ page.

By using this response, the bully is able to avoid answering the question and thus avoid accepting responsibility for what they have said or done. It is a pattern of behaviour learnt by about the age of 3; most children learn or are taught to grow out of this, but some are not and by adulthood, this avoidance technique has been practised to perfection.

A further advantage of the denial/counter-attack/feigning victimhood strategy is that it acts as a provocation. The target, who may have taken months to reach this stage, sees their tormentor getting away with it and is provoked into an angry and emotional outburst after which the bully says simply "There, I told you s/he was like that". Anger is one of the mechanisms by which bullies (and all abusers) control their targets. By tapping in to and obtaining an inappropriate release of pent-up anger the bully plays their master stroke and casts their victim as villain.

When called to account for the way they have chosen to behave, mature adults do not respond by bursting into tears. If you're dealing with a serial bully who has just exhibited this avoidance tactic, sit passively and draw attention to the pattern of behaviour they've just exhibited, and then the purpose of the tactic. Then ask for an answer to the question.

Bullies also rely on the denial of others and the fact that when their target reports the abuse they will be disbelieved ("are your sure this is really going on?", "I find it hard to believe - are you sure you're not imagining it?"). Frequently targets are asked why they didn't report the abuse before, and they will usually reply "because I didn't think anyone would believe me." Sadly they are often right in this assessment. Because of the Jekyll & Hyde nature, compulsive lying, and plausibility, no-one can - or wants - to believe it. ........................................

Reflection

Serial bullies harbour a particular hatred of anyone who can articulate their behaviour profile, either verbally or in writing - as on this page - in a manner which helps other people see through their deception and their mask of deceit. The usual instinctive response is to launch a bitter personal attack on the person's credentials, lack of qualifications, and right to talk about personality disorders, psychopathic personality etc, whilst preserving their right to talk about anything they choose - all the while adding nothing to the debate themselves.

Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Brian V Cockbill

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2012, 09:19:42 AM »
TS members might be ionterested I have tabled the following question for the Leader at this evening's Scrutiny Committee Meeting.
Brian V Cockbill
4 In the light of the Standards Committee's Hearing
Panel's decision on Friday 19 Ocvtober 2012; are changes in
the composition of your Cabinet to be made?

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2012, 10:06:43 AM »
For my part, I didn't think he was the right person for Deputy Mayor in the first place.  This issue is only a side show and probably does not resonate with the public outside of the Civic Offices and us hardy souls on TS.

I do think it strange that his Leader has become akin to a Trappist Monk - surely he has something to add to the debate or will he now luxuriate in the discomfort that Coun Martin now finds himself.

I am not in any surprised that he was chosen to be Deputy Mayor this year. 

Why?  Well quite simple really, Rod doesn't want him in the Cabinet but he doesn't want he outside the proverbial tent either, so what better place to sideline him for two years than the positions of Deputy Mayor and Mayor, where is neutered for the duration.

I am surprised he did not forsee it that way though!  Did his ego get in the way?
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Offline Tobes

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2012, 06:17:02 PM »
Latest in the Adver here...

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9998146.Officer____freaked_out____by_deputy_mayor___s_action/

Question is for me, why did it all get to this ridiculous state?

Why weren't the two parties able to resolve this in private?
Why did (presumably...?) Nick Martin decide to splash this confrontation all over the Adver?

 :-\

One occasion when I will agree with Richard mind you - ego is definitely at the centre of all of this.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Muggins

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2012, 06:36:02 PM »
I was surprised to see that this took over a year to come to a decision.   

I can't see how a complaint like this can be settled between the two of them, it needed to go to Standards or beyond.

And why did it take 18 months, did the elections in May delay the outcome?

Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Chav

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2012, 09:42:50 PM »
Could It be that Cllr Martin was just being friendly and the hairstyle situation being nothing more than a focal point for engaging in conversation ?

Would it have been taken in the same context if the recipient were Male ?

This appears to be so simple yet so complex with regards to the situation.

Anything can be read into a situation, as any email,text message can be read in any context by the recipient.

There is one thing for sure though ! ........ It has certainly been a learning curve for both parties.

"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2012, 09:06:27 AM »
No Chav, anyone that's has been involved with SBC for some years, should have known the 'etiquette' of it.

Goodness knows we had it drummed into us on the outside, so they should have known on the inside.
For goodness sake have they no pride in their postiion in the community?

Some people are naturally tactile and some people don't like to be touched. And sometimes there are good reasons why people don't like to be touched - had a bad experience in the past etc.  Them that touch, and them that have been watching all evening for an opportunity so to do, should respect that.

Personally I think that the 'looking' for the opportunity an whole lot creepier than the actual touching.

Maybe a one off is a matter of forgiveness but after one has said they don't like to be touched it should stop there.  To do it again is not just a disrespect but a challenge too.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2012, 10:04:54 AM »
Question is for me, why did it all get to this ridiculous state?

Why weren't the two parties able to resolve this in private?
Why did (presumably...?) Nick Martin decide to splash this confrontation all over the Adver?

 :-\

One occasion when I will agree with Richard mind you - ego is definitely at the centre of all of this.

Thanks Tobes you made my Day   O0

You make a very interesting point as to why it couldn't be resolved in private, to which I would add that having, allegedly, reported it to her boss the following week, why it took eighteen months to get to Standards, a period during which the Defendant was elected Deputy Mayor?

Methinks there is more to this than meets the eye!!
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Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2012, 10:12:02 AM »
No Chav, anyone that's has been involved with SBC for some years, should have known the 'etiquette' of it.

Goodness knows we had it drummed into us on the outside, so they should have known on the inside.
For goodness sake have they no pride in their postiion in the community?

Some people are naturally tactile and some people don't like to be touched. And sometimes there are good reasons why people don't like to be touched - had a bad experience in the past etc.  Them that touch, and them that have been watching all evening for an opportunity so to do, should respect that.

Personally I think that the 'looking' for the opportunity an whole lot creepier than the actual touching.

Maybe a one off is a matter of forgiveness but after one has said they don't like to be touched it should stop there.  To do it again is not just a disrespect but a challenge too.

M, if you are not careful no one will be able to ask Officers anything controversial for fear of upsetting them!!

You missed a whole evening devoted to Communities at Scrutiny last night, it would have been interesting for you to have been there.

Vera was in full flow via the script, but got a bit lost when she was asked questions and had to defer to her officers.  Reminded me of full Council when Peter Mallinson was being asked questions about the privatisation of the Adult Care Team and didn't seem to know the answers!
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Offline Muggins

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2012, 11:46:18 AM »
M, if you are not careful no one will be able to ask Officers anything controversial for fear of upsetting them!!


Ah, you blokes are numpties when it comes to thing like this, there is asking and asking - when I'm dealing with an officer unless I know them very very well, I would not comment on their person, but get on with the issue.   I dont care what they look like and I hope they don't judge me by what I look like,(although I know that some of then do) do  it's the bit between their ears that I'm interested in, (although I know some of them aren't when speaking to me) if a robot had the answer I'd be happy.

I may not have been at the Civic last evening, but I was still dealing with community issues here, as I had been all day.  If it was devoted to community issues, why don't they invite community reps,  was a time when when we had direct information on what was on and why.

As an aside we learnt last week that the next SSP Conference MAY be organised by the voluntary and community sector - would be worth having ringside seats at that. No set date yet. Are you with any community or voluntary group at present?  If you are, are you likely to be chosen to represent them at something like this?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Bassettina

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2012, 05:01:41 PM »
Ah, you blokes are numpties when it comes to thing like this, there is asking and asking - when I'm dealing with an officer unless I know them very very well, I would not comment on their person, but get on with the issue.   I dont care what they look like and I hope they don't judge me by what I look like,(although I know that some of then do) do  it's the bit between their ears that I'm interested in, (although I know some of them aren't when speaking to me) if a robot had the answer I'd be happy.


Very well put, Muggins!

Offline Chav

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2012, 06:33:43 PM »
Ah, you blokes are numpties when it comes to thing like this, there is asking and asking - when I'm dealing with an officer unless I know them very very well, I would not comment on their person, but get on with the issue.   I dont care what they look like and I hope they don't judge me by what I look like,(although I know that some of then do) do  it's the bit between their ears that I'm interested in, (although I know some of them aren't when speaking to me) if a robot had the answer I'd be happy.


Very well put, Muggins!

I know a man with a big quif .... I always wondered how it stays in place and what products he uses !  :wink:

"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2012, 06:51:20 PM »
Ah, you blokes are numpties when it comes to thing like this, there is asking and asking - when I'm dealing with an officer unless I know them very very well, I would not comment on their person, but get on with the issue.   I dont care what they look like and I hope they don't judge me by what I look like,(although I know that some of then do) do  it's the bit between their ears that I'm interested in, (although I know some of them aren't when speaking to me) if a robot had the answer I'd be happy.


Very well put, Muggins!

I know a man with a big quif .... I always wondered how it stays in place and what products he uses !  :wink:



Yes, well it's all very well to wonder, but take my advice (though I know you won't) don't go over and run your fingers through it!  Don't say "that's what I call a big greasy quiff" and certainly don't wait all evening to go and say it to him.   PS, I hope you haven't said it to him before.  ::)
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Chav

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2012, 07:33:12 PM »
Ah, you blokes are numpties when it comes to thing like this, there is asking and asking - when I'm dealing with an officer unless I know them very very well, I would not comment on their person, but get on with the issue.   I dont care what they look like and I hope they don't judge me by what I look like,(although I know that some of then do) do  it's the bit between their ears that I'm interested in, (although I know some of them aren't when speaking to me) if a robot had the answer I'd be happy.


Very well put, Muggins!

I know a man with a big quif .... I always wondered how it stays in place and what products he uses !  :wink:
K


Yes, well it's all very well to wonder, but take my advice (though I know you won't) don't go over and run your fingers through it!  Don't say "that's what I call a big greasy quiff" and certainly don't wait all evening to go and say it to him.   PS, I hope you haven't said it to him before.  ::)

No I haven't , but I have had the urge to chase someone once when I over heard them say 'she's a big girl' ....... I had the urge to chase them whilst shouting ' the belly' s gonna get ya' and then slap them and say ' you've been tango'd .  >:D

"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline I Could Do That

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Re: Story in Adver - Nick Martin
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2012, 08:36:59 PM »
Yes, well it's all very well to wonder, but take my advice (though I know you won't) don't go over and run your fingers through it!  Don't say "that's what I call a big greasy quiff"

What about....

mmmm that looks like a big cornish pasty made of liquorice slurp slobber munch munch

(yes I've made myself feel a bit queasy too)
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