Author Topic: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss  (Read 22608 times)

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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #100 on: November 14, 2012, 04:38:52 PM »
You couldn't make it up - in todays Swindon Advertiser p14 there is an article on the election for PCCs. Six people were interviewed one of whom who was identified only as a 31 year old Campaign Manager said -"The vote is important to Wiltshire. I've voted by post for Paul Batchelor as he's the only candidate I've met"

Paul Batchelor is the Lib Dem Candidate - the 31 year old Campaign Manager who declared his vote for paul was none other than Dave Woods, Lib Dem councillor for Eastcott



I blogged a few times on the antics of Cllr Dave, his Missus and their Pinnochio collegue Stan: http://www.geoffreid.com/

Coincidentally, and I'm sure we'll return to this little nugget after the PCC election is over, but it seems that Cllr Daves Missus, Cllr Nicky Sewell hasn't attended any council meetings apart from the annual council.

Given that Ex Cllrs Barry Thompson (Labour), and Andy James (Conservative) both stood down promptly when they were exposed as being absent councillors, it strikes me as either odd, (or politically expedient), that the majority (of one) Conservative group should vote unanimously to allow Cllr Sewell to remain as a Borough Councillor even though she is obviously not doing what she was elected to do.

Barry Thompson became known as the Rt Honourable Member for Majorca and Andy James had already buggered off to Grenoble when his absence was uncovered.

Anyhoo - I rarely believe anything Stan Pajak says, Dave Wood rarely utters a word in council and Nicky Sewell hasn't been seen in council since May 2012.  The three of them compose the most disingenuous group I've ever had the misfortune to study and the literature produced in their names, (although none of them will admit to authoring any of it), is the most mendacious political literature currently produced in Swindon.

I'm not at all surprised that Cllr Dave Wood once again fails to disclose that he has a vested political interest in promoting a candidate from his own political party and presents himself as 'just another' member of the public.  It's not the first time he's pulled this one, we previously caught him at it when he told a Royal Mail manager that he worked at Swindon Borough Council.

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #101 on: November 14, 2012, 05:00:55 PM »
Quote
Cllr Nicky Sewell hasn't attended any council meetings apart from the annual council.

She last attended a meeting on 22 May 2012 and has absented herself on the basis of ill-health.

Under Section 85 (1) of the LGA Act 1972, if a member fails to attend any Council meetings for a period of six consecutive months, then unless the failure was due to some reason approved by the authority befroe the expiry of the period, or an exemption has been granted by the Secretary of State, that person will cease to be a member of the Council.

The Council has very recently (8 Nov) approved the absence of Coun Sewell, if they hadn't she would have ceased to be a councillor from 21 November ie. next week. The absence has been approved for a period upto 18 January 2013.

Coun Sewell has been paid her full allowances during her absence.

Interestingly one of the considerations of the committee asked to adjudicate on the issue was the fact that if she was disqualified a By-election would be required and heaven forfend the cost of such a thing was not anticipated or allowed for in the Budget for 2012/13.

I don't suppose the fact that the Conservatives depend on the Lib Dem vote has played any part in the decision ???

Offline the gorgon

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #102 on: November 14, 2012, 06:40:40 PM »
Paul Batchelor (Lib Dem) doesn't even seem to know what police force he's standing for election in, to quote "... I will work with Wiltshire and Swindon police force...", or am I wrong in thinking it was Wiltshire Police :wink:
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-20297216

ph1lc

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #103 on: November 14, 2012, 06:58:28 PM »
Paul Batchelor (Lib Dem) doesn't even seem to know what police force he's standing for election in, to quote "... I will work with Wiltshire and Swindon police force...", or am I wrong in thinking it was Wiltshire Police :wink:
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-20297216


LOL  - then it's hardly surprising he's standing for the Literally Dimocrats.

Offline Tobes

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #104 on: November 14, 2012, 07:30:21 PM »
How is it that the government can find the multiple millions of pounds needed to fund this exercise in irrelevance, when it has repeatedly failed to deliver something which a vast majority of people actually want - a referendum on Europe?!

'Democracy' is, as ever, in danger of becoming a blunt instrument to deliver power to the tribally politicized and NOT as a means of reflecting the actual views, aspirations or priorities of those they tax to fund their public school boys club.
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #105 on: November 14, 2012, 07:46:59 PM »
How is it that the government can find the multiple millions of pounds needed to fund this exercise in irrelevance, when it has repeatedly failed to deliver something which a vast majority of people actually want - a referendum on Europe?!

'Democracy' is, as ever, in danger of becoming a blunt instrument to deliver power to the tribally politicized and NOT as a means of reflecting the actual views, aspirations or priorities of those they tax to fund their public school boys club.

Word.

ph1lc

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #106 on: November 14, 2012, 09:09:45 PM »
How is it that the government can find the multiple millions of pounds needed to fund this exercise in irrelevance, when it has repeatedly failed to deliver something which a vast majority of people actually want - a referendum on Europe?!

'Democracy' is, as ever, in danger of becoming a blunt instrument to deliver power to the tribally politicized and NOT as a means of reflecting the actual views, aspirations or priorities of those they tax to fund their public school boys club.

Spot on Tobes, and in this case with the result under AV a referendum totally ignored.

Offline Bassettina

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #107 on: November 15, 2012, 06:15:01 AM »
From the 38 Degrees Newsletter - Wilts candidates questioned about police privatisation:

John Short (UKIP):I would not privatise the police force,nor would I allow companies such as G4S to run any services for the police, and I have no connections with any companies connected with police contracts.


Liam Silcocks (Independent):
Privatistion:
Yes I can promise not to privatise Wiltshire Police Services - However I will consider outsourcing Police Complaints to a voluntary group within Wiltshire - perhaps the CAB - they have managed the NHS complaints framework in the past to provide independence. I have always been uncomfortable with the Police investigating themselves and believe that function is better served with full impartiality. Decisions regarding disciplinary or other action will have to remain within the Police force following a truly independent investigation.

G4S or other such companies.
No, I will not allow companies like G4S in - period. I have worked for organisations who have been tempted at the seemingly cost cutting angle to contacting out and then wonder why everything breaks. It usually costs more to contract out and then bring the services back in-house so it's a big no go for me.

Dodgy connections:
No, I am completely independent of political parties, the Police or any organisation that may benefit from me being elected in any shape or form. I think I am the only candidate who can boast those credentials.

Paul Batchelor (LibDems):
Thank you for contacting me. I have stated publicly that I do not believe there should be privatisation of any part of the police service. I understand that there are pressures to privatise the custody suites, which has happened already in eleven police forces. I will resist strongly any intervention from central government to compel Wiltshire to follow this line.
I find it difficult to see where there is a place in the police service for the likes of G4S or Reliance to offer a better service than our well respected police already deliver.


Angus Macpherson (Conservatives):
I am committed to evidence based commissioning. The Police force should not, and will not be privatised. However some services that the Chief Constable requires may be provided by other forces, private companies or the voluntary sector, as they are now.

The commissioning role it to listen to the public need, write a strategy, specify services and the services and then monitor the outcomes. Poor commissioning is achieved when there is a preconception of the result of the process.

G4s already provide services to Wiltshire Police and as far as I am aware the Chief Constable is satisfied with the service provided. I will of course review this when in office.

I have no connection to companies that might be interested in police contacts. My skills for this post are as a chartered accountant, magistrate and experienced member of the body this post replaces.

Clare Moody (Labour):
Thank you for your email. In response to your questions it is one of my pledges that I will not privatise police services, I do not believe that there should be a profit motive involved in policing. I can also reassure you that I have absolutely no connection to any companies that might be interested in a policing services contract and do not anticipate using any private company, such as G4S, in the provision of policing services.


Colin Skelton (Independent):
My views on privatization are straightforward, the profit motive and private companies should have no place in frontline Policing. I have blogged on this issue and below (in italics) is my blog from earlier in the year.

Wiltshire Police face a real challenge in this area, there are plans to privatise custody suites and for the force to launch into a big PFI deal which I feel will cripple them financially. The Conservative Party wants to see more private sector involvement, including patrolling and investigation. I think this is fundamentally wrong.

I have no ties to any private sector companies.

"Wiltshire Police currently have plans to privatise their custody suites across the county. If elected I would not allow this to happen. I am not opposed to privatisation per se, and if you asked me if a Police service should be in the business of catering, I would say no, we should outsource. Wiltshire Police have the expertise in custody, private companies do not. However, for me it is not an issue solely of money. Although I fail to see how an organisation could run a custody suite cheaper than the Police Service do. The staff costs, building maintenance costs would be the same for both organisations, yet a private company would have to introduce new management and a 10% profit margin into the equation. The maths don't add up.

No, the issue for me is transparency and accountability. Over the past ten years of so there have been several deaths whilst prisoners have been in in custody suites. These are tragic events. When the Police service run the custody suites, Police and civilian Police staff have fully co-operated with any Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) investigation. This is right and proper, open and transparent. When private companies employ the civilian staff, in some cases, those companies have not co-operated with the IPCC investigation. This is a loss of transparency and accountability I could not accept as Commissioner."


Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #108 on: November 15, 2012, 09:36:25 AM »
I was just about to post the 38 Degrees Newsletter as well Tina, well done for beating me to it!!

and as a result I have actually changed my mind and now intend to vote!!

for Liam Silcocks because his words strike a cord with me and others do not and I do not want any one of them to get in by default.

The further privatisation of any more of the police service frightens me to death as does anyone who has had anything to do with what I would describe as the failed police authority.
All my posts are my own opinion and do not represent any political organization or group

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #109 on: November 15, 2012, 01:19:52 PM »
It made me laugh, when Ms MOODY said that when she was at No 10 Downing Street, she was making policy decisions and she wasnt even an MP, more like the tea lady for Mr Brown, if she was, that explains why Brown left such a mess...... :wink: :wink:

Offline LimpGaribaldi

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #110 on: November 15, 2012, 09:53:48 PM »
Anyone around at the Oasis to see the poll come in?

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #111 on: November 15, 2012, 11:53:34 PM »
I went to vote in Green road polling station at about 11.30, and up until then I was the 18th person to vote since it opened... :wink: :wink:

Offline Bassettina

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #112 on: November 16, 2012, 05:38:48 AM »
And the Wiltshire PCC is... Angus Macpherson! (Con)

Electoral turn out for Wiltshire was 15.8%.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #113 on: November 16, 2012, 05:43:17 AM »
 
One wonders what percentage of the Police Service will have been outsourced to the lowest bidder, (or no longer exists), by the time the next PCC election rolls around.  Probably more than 15.8%

It will also be interesting/alarming to see what 'innovations' and 'visions' will be brought to bear on policing priorities from this point on.

Offline Bassettina

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #114 on: November 16, 2012, 06:10:03 AM »
Quote
Conservative Angus Macpherson has been chosen as Wiltshire's police and crime commissioner (PCC) in the first result to come in after Thursday's elections.

He beat Labour's Clare Moody after second preference votes were counted as neither managed to get 50% of votes.

The result comes amid a low turnout with figures showing that only 81,477 ballots were cast out of 520,000 registered voters - less than 16%.



Quote
In Swindon, 15% of eligible people voted, in Devizes 10% cast ballots, while the turnout in both Trowbridge and Chippenham was 11%.

The total turnout figure is higher than the averages of individual constituencies as the overall figure includes postal votes.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-20341913 
   

Offline Tobes

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #115 on: November 16, 2012, 06:25:33 AM »
So - several lessons to be learned.

Mr Macpherson received 7% of the available vote in Wiltshire.

Lets repeat that.

7%.

A mandate of 7 people out of every 100 is no mandate at all.

And contrary to 'certain assumptions' on this thread, the media is absolutely all over this as an issue. People's refusal to vote HAS sent a message - as well as to have crippled the credibility of yet another pseudo-representative who'll put party machinations and political concerns ahead of what ordinary people actually want.

That simple fact will dog Macpherson right the way through his term. The 7% figure will be brought up at every decision he makes.

This whole affair has been a MASSIVE waste of effort and money - right at the time when the same dolts who've promoted this are telling us that essential services need to be cut as part of austerity.

Liars. Hypocrites.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Bassettina

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #116 on: November 16, 2012, 06:38:51 AM »
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/41806

Links to the following epetition:

Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) Nov 15th elections : My vote was a "No" vote
Responsible department: Home Office


The undersigned believe that the current Police and Crime Commissioner positions, as enacted in the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act that became law 2011, are fundamentally flawed.

Since there was no way of expressing this during the election we, the undersigned, were forced to:

* not vote
* spoil our ballot
* vote for the candidate that would do the least harm

We wish to express that this was not an act of apathy, or an uninformed electorate, but a deliberate decision.

As a short term action by the government we would prefer a return to the old Police Authorities that, while flawed, are far superior to the new PCC roles.


Offline the gorgon

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #117 on: November 16, 2012, 08:28:29 AM »
Well Comical Ali (aka Police Minister Damian Green) has just been on BBC News declaring the elections a success.  :o

As results roll in I think the media is going to start making an even bigger noise about poor turnout.  The turnouts reported for last nights parliamentary by-elections were 25% in Cardiff, 18% in Manchester, Corby not announced yet.  Frankly I'd be amazed if any of the PCC elections (other than Cardiff) get a 25% turnout.

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #118 on: November 16, 2012, 08:57:29 AM »
Quote
A mandate of 7 people out of every 100 is no mandate at all.

But it is - the fact that people chose not to vote, for whatever reason, is part of the democratic process we live under.

I predicted 15% but would have much preferred to have seen 95% but that just didn't happen.

To not vote on the basis that 'I don't agree with the proposition' is a democratic choice but it has zero effect on the outcome. I didn't agree the need to have PCCs I would rather have had the PA with teeth, but having been presented with a situation where my objection would be like the proverbial fxxx in a thunderstorm, i then had to re-evaluate my thinking to look at the candidates and make a decision as to whether I could support any one of them.

To not vote on the basis that 'I don't like any of the candidates' is also a democratic choice, although if it was a beauty parade then Clare Moody wins hands down. However it's not a beauty parade (sorry Clare) and as with any election you have to then look elsewhere for help in deciding who you vote for - or you abstain, a pefectly legitimate course of action in a democracy. 

I found there were two who in my view stood head and shoulders above the others and both could do the job - even though I still objected to the creation of the job itself.

Poor turnout on a nice day says as much about the electorate as it does about the political elite sitting in Whitehall and the various town halls in the country.

Thursday was a bad day for democracy in that many people chose to turn their backs on one of the core privilges afforded to them by law - the right to vote. However weighed against that is the right 'not to vote' and clearly the majority chose this option.

Congratulations to those who voted and added messages to the voting slip - I do hope that returning officers will report the comments back to their masters and that some notice might be taken of them - although i won't hold my breath


Offline the gorgon

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Re: Politicisation of the Police Commissioner vote -- discuss
« Reply #119 on: November 16, 2012, 09:10:03 AM »
I heard on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning (during a discussion with a polling expert) that there were around 2,800 (I think) spoilt papers (3% of the total I think) in the Wiltshire vote.  Some of them would be due to people not being familiar with the voting system but the rest were deliberate.