Author Topic: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....  (Read 7760 times)

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Offline Geoff Reid

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It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« on: September 03, 2012, 04:41:17 PM »
Even from poolside of a borrowed villa in the Algarve the motives behind the recent actions of Swindon's construction mad Tories become painfully clear.

The excerpt from a recent BBC story also hint as to the purpose behind Rod Bluh's cosy Westminster dinner, (hosted and paid for by Crest Nicolson), during which our Rod secretively discussed housing policy for our town with Ministers and developers.

SBC has already informed me that Rod was the only 'person' from Swindon present at the soirree. Democracy in action or another wad of public cash being eased into the pockets of privately owned businesses, a.k.a. 'quantative pleasing' ?



Offline Bassettina

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2012, 05:17:52 PM »
George Osborne let the cat out of the bag - green belt building and an expansion at Heathrow. And if that doesn't work, we are all a bunch of lazy slackers who just don't deserve to eat.

Major expansion on the west side of Swindon, then? Lovely. Just what we need. No jobs to go with it I suppose.

Offline Morsey

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2012, 05:32:07 PM »
Trouble is, a great number of new homes are not sold to owner occupiers ... they are rented out to ease the huge lists of Council House applicants.

Question:  How many jobs does the building industry actually create these days?  I noticed Waine Homes knock up a complete estate with a handful of labour in about nine months and in Ermin Street, there is a fungus spore development cropping up in a matter of weeks it seems?

Odd that laying the paving outside the station was affected by the weather ... they can certainly build houses in the same climatic conditions?

Offline the gorgon

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2012, 05:43:50 PM »
George Osborne let the cat out of the bag - green belt building and an expansion at Heathrow. And if that doesn't work, we are all a bunch of lazy slackers who just don't deserve to eat.

Major expansion on the west side of Swindon, then? Lovely. Just what we need. No jobs to go with it I suppose.


Thing is there's greenbelt (like that around Swindon) and there's greenbelt (like that around Oxford). The former isn't really greenbelt (we consider it to be - but it isn't) whereas the latter is really greenbelt and is protected by law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_belt_%28United_Kingdom%29

What are the odds that the greenbelt Osborne is talking about is the sort around Swindon as opposed to the sort around Oxford or between Bath and Bristol?

I think Swindon is going to dumped on big time in the near future and TF is only the start (with the rationale that development should be focused on employment centres and not nice towns and villages where blue blooded tories just so happen to live).

Offline Outoftowner

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2012, 06:48:00 PM »
Simple minded people could think that if more houses are built, then there will be more council tax for them to waste on vibrant schemes!
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Offline Jean

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 07:24:40 PM »
George Osborne let the cat out of the bag - green belt building and an expansion at Heathrow. And if that doesn't work, we are all a bunch of lazy slackers who just don't deserve to eat.

Major expansion on the west side of Swindon, then? Lovely. Just what we need. No jobs to go with it I suppose.


Thing is there's greenbelt (like that around Swindon) and there's greenbelt (like that around Oxford). The former isn't really greenbelt (we consider it to be - but it isn't) whereas the latter is really greenbelt and is protected by law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_belt_%28United_Kingdom%29

What are the odds that the greenbelt Osborne is talking about is the sort around Swindon as opposed to the sort around Oxford or between Bath and Bristol?

I think Swindon is going to dumped on big time in the near future and TF is only the start (with the rationale that development should be focused on employment centres and not nice towns and villages where blue blooded tories just so happen to live).


Swindon doesn't have any designated Green Belt land - it never has. There was a temporary "Green Belt" policy - called a Rural Buffer policy - that offered protection to countryside to the north, south and west of Swindon but that policy was removed only a few years ago. That's how the Front Garden development and Coate plans got voted through.

Swindon then ended up with a lot of Rural Buffer settlements around Swindon rather than a broad swathe of protected countryside in the current local plan. The purpose of this was to prevent Swindon joining up with outlying setlements.

However, I believe that the emerging Swindon Core Strategy doesn't even mention Rural Buffers any more. 

All the countryside around Swindon is up for grabs. The only bit of Swindon that isn't targetted yet by a national house-builder is the land south of the M4. However that could change.

Swindon has been a major target for growth by successive governments aided by a compliant local authority.

Swindon is doomed...
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Offline Tobes

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 08:10:27 PM »
Quote
I think Swindon is going to dumped on big time in the near future and TF is only the start (with the rationale that development should be focused on employment centres and not nice towns and villages where blue blooded tories just so happen to live).

WORD!  :(

Thats the worst aspect to all of this... Lets just play Devils Advocate for a minute regarding the long term dangers of this 'open door' policy to development:

Swindon is deemed crap - so it has no architectural merit worth protecting, ergo money is the only motivator and our councillors will fall over themselves - regardless of compromise - to help their central govt. colleagues and be able to boast that 'Swindon is in the vanguard' (not to mention their local masonic/business forum/rotarian/golf-club chums who happen to be involved in the building industry...)

And the result? A crap town gets crapper. Infrastructure is strained further. Last vestiges of civic pride - Coate, green-space and allotments etc. are sullied/paved over by cheaply constructed buildings (Croft school being a classic example of the genre): Swindon spreads like a patch of mildew. As a cheap place to live, it attracts cheap, low rent businesses and the cheap low-rent gumpties to service them, who in turn attract cheap-low rent businesses to serve their appetite for fast food, poundlands, sportswear shops and alcopop bars.

We've know for years that Swindon's problem is it can't shift into a higher gear because businesses of quality are reluctant to relocate somewhere deemed so crap that they have a real issue bringing skilled people to them.

With the team in charge at the moment apparently so intent on pimping out the town to the cheapest punters, is this likely to change?

Does any councillor or member of Forward Swindon actually think further ahead than five to ten years....?

Not only is it increasingly difficult to attract people with aspiration to this town - its increasingly difficult to keep them. lots of people I know have now left specifically because its such an increasingly mediocre ersatz place.

I want our politicians and businessmen to hold out for QUALIITY - things which benefit more than the usual suspects - and things which represent long-term investment and which won't look like utter eye-sores in a few short years.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

ph1lc

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 08:29:04 PM »
Forward Swindon in their various guises have been / are a great deal of the problem.

When I came to Swindon around 13 years ago the town centres of Swindon and Reading were fairly equal.
Reading has built the Oracle and thrived. Swindon has built the Pissoir - and is quite frankly not worth visiting.

We can't deny all new housing and expect the town to be regenerated. Unfortunately we have to accept that the town must grow - by a significant percentage if we are to attract the funding needed to regenerate the Town centre.

Offline moley

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 08:33:41 PM »
Forward Swindon in their various guises have been / are a great deal of the problem.

When I came to Swindon around 13 years ago the town centres of Swindon and Reading were fairly equal.
Reading has built the Oracle and thrived. Swindon has built the Pissoir - and is quite frankly not worth visiting.

We can't deny all new housing and expect the town to be regenerated. Unfortunately we have to accept that the town must grow - by a significant percentage if we are to attract the funding needed to regenerate the Town centre.

But the problem is that to me it looks like the money we've got has been wasted on vanity projects rather than anything of value.... as an outsider to Reading they *have* turned their town centre round significantly - but I'm not aware of as much money having been wasted on completely useless things.  (Obviously as I only visit Reading a couple of times a year I may not be aware of their vanity projects) - but you can really see the improvement in Reading that you can't see in Swindon.

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Offline Tobes

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 08:41:22 PM »
@ PH1c - Agreed, we need some of the cheapy stuff for a balanced town - but where in any of this is the quality to keep the scales level? And why does the cheapo stuff so often involve demolition of viable and worth-while businesses? (ie. the proposed demo of half of Havelock street and all the independent stores there - inc. the last in-town butchers, cobblers, sewing shop etc.) ... And why does the current crop seem to involve building on green space or unsuitable places?
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline I Could Do That

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 09:26:58 PM »
If building houses is the essential ingredient to a successful town, Swindon would be the envy of the nation.
Swindon is definitely not the envy of the nation. It is often sneared at. Not least for its sprawl.

Time to change the record
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ph1lc

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2012, 10:33:00 PM »
Point taken ICDT, it's certainly not the be all and end all.

BUT it's an important part. Swindon has sadly been woefully mismanaged for years - by incompetents of both political parties along with overpaid appointees. Compare the population growth of Reading over the last 10 years - it's almost twice the growth of Swindon.
Drive along the M4 and see al the new employment infrastructure, look at the Oracle - Reading town centre is vibrant.

The point I was making is that unless we develop all three in tandem we will get nowhere.

Sorry, but we have to take more houses, it's up to all of us that care to accept that and fight to see that they are built in the least bad place possible.

Offline jennyb

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 12:30:38 AM »
Point taken ICDT, it's certainly not the be all and end all.

BUT it's an important part. Swindon has sadly been woefully mismanaged for years - by incompetents of both political parties along with overpaid appointees. Compare the population growth of Reading over the last 10 years - it's almost twice the growth of Swindon.
Drive along the M4 and see al the new employment infrastructure, look at the Oracle - Reading town centre is vibrant.

The point I was making is that unless we develop all three in tandem we will get nowhere.

Sorry, but we have to take more houses, it's up to all of us that care to accept that and fight to see that they are built in the least bad place possible.

If those in post to serve us cannot manage a simple development such as a school without alienating the public, choosing a horrendous design, screwing up the road network, being behind schedule on every aspect of project management , with a budget that looks to be out of control and making politicians take a vow of omerta on school numbers... what hope is there for Swindon?

If Swindon is to prosper and gain some self respect.. it needs a different calibre of public servants ..elected and salaried.

People who can inspire and aspire to be better. 
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Bassettina

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 06:12:53 AM »
@ PH1c - Agreed, we need some of the cheapy stuff for a balanced town - but where in any of this is the quality to keep the scales level? And why does the cheapo stuff so often involve demolition of viable and worth-while businesses? (ie. the proposed demo of half of Havelock street and all the independent stores there - inc. the last in-town butchers, cobblers, sewing shop etc.) ... And why does the current crop seem to involve building on green space or unsuitable places?

They want to get rid of Havelock Street? No!

Swindon needs a more mixed economy - one where both national HQs want to relocate and one where individuals want to set up small buinesses. You need houses for families and you need flats for young singles and couples. You need transport and you need good facilities.

Of the many reasons to worry about more house building, is the state of Wichelstowe. Some lovely countryside was set asidefor that development, but there hasn't been the demand for it to be completed, despite massive local govt investment in schools, roads, water, etc.

Offline Mickraker

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Buildergeddon is approaching Swindon
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2012, 07:04:52 AM »
Of the many reasons to worry about more house building, is the state of Wichelstowe. Some lovely countryside was set asidefor that development, but there hasn't been the demand for it to be completed, despite massive local govt investment in schools, roads, water, etc.

Don't you think the canal in Whiche looks the Bees nads?  Not only does it, but the development along it looks like the dogs knees. Is Swindon now being twinned with soon to be absorbed RWB. Swindon is going to be sucking in RWB and the Eastern rural buffer as it hurtles toward buildergeddon.  :2funny:
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Offline Outoftowner

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2012, 08:08:26 AM »

Geoff said:
Quote
Even from poolside of a borrowed villa in the Algarve

Was it called "Vile Villa"?


I'll get me coat.


Happy Holidays Geoff!
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2012, 10:11:30 AM »

Geoff said:
Quote
Even from poolside of a borrowed villa in the Algarve

Was it called "Vile Villa"?


I'll get me coat.


Happy Holidays Geoff!

It has a lovely name which I won't publish because I wouldn't put it past one of Rod's trolls to harass the villas fabulously rich and famous owner. I may be vile but, unlike the Bluhligans, I don't dump on my friends! :)

ph1lc

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2012, 01:23:53 PM »
[If Swindon is to prosper and gain some self respect.. it needs a different calibre of public servants ..elected and salaried.

People who can inspire and aspire to be better.

I couldn't agree more Jenny. Sadly when offered a credible and able alternative, the good voters in Old Town chose a monkey in a blue rosette.

Offline Bassettina

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Re: Buildergeddon is approaching Swindon
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2012, 05:29:43 PM »
Of the many reasons to worry about more house building, is the state of Wichelstowe. Some lovely countryside was set asidefor that development, but there hasn't been the demand for it to be completed, despite massive local govt investment in schools, roads, water, etc.

Don't you think the canal in Whiche looks the Bees nads?  Not only does it, but the development along it looks like the dogs knees. Is Swindon now being twinned with soon to be absorbed RWB. Swindon is going to be sucking in RWB and the Eastern rural buffer as it hurtles toward buildergeddon.  :2funny:

Argh! I feel like Picard before he got assimilated by the Borg.

Nope. You can't absorb RWB. I'll tie myself to a digger before than happens. You keep to your side of J16 and we'll stay on ours!

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2012, 05:36:44 PM »
I am told that there are plans, to go down from Junct 16 to 15 on your side of the M4 and the sbc hold the deeds of the farm land involved!!!!> :wink:

Offline Bassettina

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Re: It All Starts To Look Painfully Clear.....
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2012, 05:45:01 PM »
And they want to fill in between Lydiard and the M4. And there was the plan to tunnel a road under J16/the road to Bassett Down.

Wiltshire CC is very guilty of aiming all development for north Wilts as we are less posh and well connected than Salisbury types, and not as well armed as those who live in and around the plain! Chippenham has had loads of new houses built in the last few years, and Calne keeps expanding.

With any luck, the mud springs will suck up the lot!

Offline Mickraker

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Developers search for the XFactor
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2013, 10:42:42 AM »
Developers are searching for a design code is that like the Xfactor?

http://oakhurstresidents.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/out-of-blue-developer-came-to-call.html
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