Author Topic: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?  (Read 10721 times)

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Offline Steve Wakefield

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It looks that way to me.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/may/21/nuclear-reactor-reprieve-energy-plans-doubt


All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Karsten

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2012, 07:28:22 PM »
Hinkley Point isn't happening..
And I think Nuclear is less and less popular..

I would join in anti Nuclear demonstrations against nuclear.... but they need to publish actions better.
Would have gone to the Hinkley point one but only got to know about it on news.
Personally I think the Greens should do more about anti nuke.

Any one else want to try form Anti Nuclear group in Swindon or know of an existing one?

Shooting my self in the foot as its BNFL who employ most of the AVEVA PDMS CAD tech and IT guys.

BTW I threw out all my old salt and got iodised salt instead after Fukushima.
Radioactive iodine was found in reading after the meltdowns. 
(Yes the reactors did melt down and then shut down naturally mulitple times..
the cause was the sea water they used to cool down the spent fuel pools.
normal water breaks down and then speeds up reaction.. whole point of using heavy water.

Anyone who has seen the explosions at Fukushima must know that nuclear power is unsafe and definitely not clean or green energy.



Still bit dubious about Tuna as its all caught around Japan.



Offline I Could Do That

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2012, 07:53:46 PM »
Nuclear has always seemed like an unfinished plan to me.
The powers to be claim "efficiency", but the manning of non-productive reactors, for years after they've "shut down" seems to contradict "efficiency"

One of the guys on the Adver forum could probably explain, but it's incredibly quiet on there at the moment.
I think they're all "bobbed off"
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Offline the gorgon

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2012, 08:52:55 PM »
It was on Points West today that the owners of Hinkley want to extend the life of the existing power plant (they've not decided how long though).  Not sure whether that means a new plant will be built or not.

I'm pretty ambivalent about nuclear power now, I've gone from supporting (pre-Chernobyl) to opposing (post-Chernobyl) to knowing that you can't get the truth from either side (so reality is somewhere in-between the two sides of the argument). 

It's worth remembering that people in general are poor at understanding risks. Look at Hinkley Point (or Berkeley even), as far as I know there have been no deaths related to its activities.  Yet go along the Severn to Avonmouth car terminal and the 500,000+ cars imported every year will statistically cause 35 fatalities (in the UK there are 7 road fatalities for every 100,000 motor-vehicles).  So what's more dangerous Hinkley or Avonmouth :-\?

Offline I Could Do That

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2012, 09:14:21 PM »
Closer to home was the Sellafield / Windscale disaster.
Comparison to Avonmouth?
Avonmouth could be shut down overnight and pose no great risk unlike the experiences with Douneray and Sizewell A.

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Offline the gorgon

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 10:10:36 PM »
Closer to home was the Sellafield / Windscale disaster.
Comparison to Avonmouth?
Avonmouth could be shut down overnight and pose no great risk unlike the experiences with Douneray and Sizewell A.


Even closer to home Harwell, Oldbury and Berkeley - all fine as far as I know.

If you shut Avonmouth down all the cars imported via Avonmouth will still be on the road and able to cause death or injury...

There's a good reason I used cars as it shows how people can be paranoid about small risks (nuclear disaster or terrorism) and totally blind to bigger risks (like being killed in a car accident). As I said it's difficult for people to get their head around risk.

Have a read of this article, I'll be honest I've no idea whether it's biased or not http://www.the9billion.com/2011/03/24/death-rate-from-nuclear-power-vs-coal/. If what is reported is true then coal and oil have done and are doing far more harm than nuclear.

That said nuclear is far from perfect, yes it is dangerous, yes it will take centuries to clean-up and it's not the solution to all our energy needs.


Offline Simon

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2012, 11:18:05 PM »
Avonmouth could be shut down overnight and pose no great risk unlike the experiences with Douneray and Sizewell A.

If you shut Avonmouth down all the cars imported via Avonmouth will still be on the road and able to cause death or injury...

I think we're trying to compare apples with pears here.

Acually, that analogy is too kind; apples have more in common with pears than nuclear power plants do with shipping terminals which import cars.

Stop Avonmouth from importing cars (and generously assume that there will be no other source of cars; unrealistic, but necessary for the analogy), and yes, the cars already imported will continue to drive around the UK, with a risk that some of them may hurt someone. But most of those cars won't last more than a few decades.

Stop a nuclear power plant from being built (and generously assume that one won't be built elsewhere), and you also prevent the problem of the waste products of fission being.....? What are we supposed to do with them? They remain radioactive for far longer than the hypothetical cars continue to be driven around. I dare say that outputs from the nuclear power industry will still be emitting dangerous levels of radiation for longer than the period of time which has passed between Homo Sapiens becoming civilised and now. Said outputs may be buried in deep holes in the ground right now, but can we really say that they're safely contained there forever?

Multiply the risk factor by the length of time for which the risk exists (a few decades vs a few centuries / millenia / is there an atomic scientist in the house?) to get a proper picture of how bad it is.
We are all in this together, but some of us are more in it than others (with apologies to George Orwell)

Offline Karsten

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2012, 05:57:08 AM »
So what's more dangerous Hinkley or Avonmouth :-\?


If you use same logic, then you have forgotten all those killed by depleted uranium ammo. 
Same thing as saying a port  that imports cars causes any auto related deaths.
How many towns, districts have had to be evacuated for years due to a car crash?
How many animals slaughtered due to pollution from spilt engine oil?

Numbers don't show what the real risks are.   
Eg. I'd say there is a high risk in flying at the moment due to possible bomb plots.
Most people would agree because of Yemen..  but no one has died yet so the risk is Zero?  More likely to be run over by a bus?
Not with all the cuts in bus routes. :-P

Where does the depleted uranium come from?  Nuclear Power plants.. The UK shipped lots to the US in former years.
The US doesn't need to bury its nuclear waste as long as its got a war going.
It simply sprays it on an offending country in the name of 'Justice'.
The Gulf war wasn't about Oil, but getting rid of missiles and nuclear waste and charging for it. and showing the world who is boss, King of the Hill.


The Apache tank busting slugs left in Kuwait and Iraq after the 2 gulf wars are still slowly killing people.  Just like Chernobyl is still killing kids in Belarus and other places.
Swindon is one town where Belarus kids come to get away from the increased radiation.
If anything happened at Hinkley or other plants, Swindon would probably be in the resulting exclusion zone if there was a meltdown like in Fukushima.

If you think nothing really happened in the UK read up on Windscale...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/sep/21/scottish-nuclear-leak-clean-up.
Do you think the cost of the clean up has been calculated in costs of Nuclear Power??? 
Who pays for the cost of cleaning up after Fukushima?

It is ironic that most sites are located near the coast, as it is meant to be a last resort to use sea water to cool a runaway meltdown.
The problem is using seawater like that actually causes multiple meltdowns. 
The Windscale accident raised radiation levels in the North Sea so now there are UK recommended limits on how much fish is safe to eat.
Fish take up radiation from their food.

Why don't Nuclear Power plants have backup heavy water stores with fail safe pumps hoses? 
Reason cost cutting and no foresight or forward planning.

To me that would have been an obvious thing to have.   No need for hindsight, it should have been common sense.
The Norwegian test reactor was dug into granite and in its own basin and had a simple  reservoir of heavy water that could flood the chamber in seconds.  It had manual and remote activation.
It was one of the very first reactors.. and only ever used for testing and making skis go faster...
All its safety systems had triple systems.   
The Oil and Gas industry operate the same..  Just not the nuclear industry.



Offline I Could Do That

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2012, 07:31:35 AM »
Sizewell A also had a mishap ..... and that was after it was shut down!

Douneray beach is still off limits and that was Britain's first nuclear power station?
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Offline the gorgon

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2012, 10:01:57 AM »
I understand fully that nuclear power is dangerous and if something goes seriously wrong it is going to be very bad. However, the important thing to me at least is the probability of something going wrong and me being on the receiving end and you know what there are far more risky things out there.

There's one very good argument against nuclear and that is the economic one because without massive government subsidies nuclear is NOT viable yet fear and paranoia seem to be used instead. 

After 9/11 I started to deeply dislike the culture of fear being propagated by politicians and the media, oddly enough it was around that time that I started to lose my support for the anti-nuclear movement as the argument against nuclear always seemed to be one of fear.  Just like Karsten did, which frankly is what set me off on my little rant.

Like I said I'm now ambivalent about nuclear, for me at least there are more pressing things to worry about and you know what I suspect most of the country feels the same.

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2012, 08:46:01 PM »
In Oxfordshire and Berkshire nuclear has been pioneered in the one/two counties. I believe Kyshtym was the biggest nuclear disaster in history. Avonmouth cars etc is a twist, but in 2009 in the US some 5000 people were killed at work in that year that is more than the loss of US people  that were killed in Iraq during the US war there. In the US some 50,000 people a year die of illness, diesease or other work related ailments.

That is as if a Jumbo jet crashed everyday killing all on board and how many people in Britain get run over by a bus each year? How many have been killed by buses or on buses since 1946 in Britain? I would guess more than have died from nuclear related accidents. I would imagine rail accidents/deaths, fishing/merchant navy  and mining accidents/death  since that year are also higher.

Offline Mart

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2012, 09:28:17 PM »
Falling coconuts.

150 deaths per year.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Rob

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2012, 06:16:07 PM »
I don't know where to start, but my mouth is water (not foaming).

I have extra gravity to add to this thread, and if you properly research for yourselves, you may see clearer. I warn you it's not an amazingly flattering image from some perspectives.

The mentioned extremes between the safety and fail-safes of highly dangerous nuke plants and what common sense would include has a rather sinister side which you may not think to consider.

Leaving Avonmouth a dimension away and travelling into an old PC computer game called 'Command and Conquer', the easiest way to destroy an enemy is to lead the to believe you have nothing to attack with by sacrificing a few expensive tanks, wait for them to build a nuclear power plant (quite expensive and usually in the early stages of a game there is no backup to power defense turrets), then launch 1 powerful air attack and run a few commandos in to clear up. Game over. Point being, any country that has a nuke plant is a real risk to itself and the rest of the world.

Radiation is cumulative. Has anyone calculated how quickly we would ALL die if they ALL failed together?

That is exactly what is possible with the IsRealy constructed virus that shut down part of fukushima's shutdown process and Obama has recently ordered it used against Iran. To think in anyway that thinking these humans care a toss about anything would leave a grave hole in your understanding. The Aisian tsunami underground detonation left a massive area underwater where no marine life has returned - the waves destroyed an airstrip which was being used by chinese-indian planes capable of firing air to ship sea-skimming missiles (capable of defending against air craft carriers. The planes survived but they had to fly in new concrete for the runway. The waves destroyed part of the nuke power plants water cooling facility but no further damage. There was a shockwave but no earthquake as a video demonstrates.

IsReal has admitted creating and using the virus effectively. Iran already had a virus killer waiting.
 :bash:
Wouldn't the throwing of nuclear technology on us be a little easier to understand if it actually wasn't meant to help us at all?

Look at cold fusion. Look at the scientists credentials and affiliation. Look at how tesla was shut down. Two poles in the ground and a bit of wire can power a light bulb - Why is this illegal!

We work to pay bills. What would you do with your life if you had no bills and all your time was your own. Would you live cleanly would you research? Would you watch TV and mainstream media and eat burgers?

Depleted uranium is a real nasty. Anyone carrying the ammunition is also affected. Are these wars created for any more of a reason than just to make money, poison EVERYONE, inflate birth defects and contaminate the environment.


PLEASE READ AND EDUCATE YOURSELVES
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2374
Depleted Uranium - Far Worse Than 9/11
Depleted Uranium Dust - Public Health Disaster For The People Of Iraq and Afghanistan
...
The military is aware of DU's harmful effects on the human genetic code. A 2001 study of DU's effect on DNA done by Dr. Alexandra C. Miller for the Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute in Bethesda, Md., indicates that DU's chemical instability causes 1 million times more genetic damage than would be expected from its radiation effect alone.

Studies have shown that inhaled nano-particles are far more toxic than micro-sized particles of the same basic chemical composition. British toxicopathologist Vyvyan Howard has reported that the increased toxicity of the nano-particle is due to its size.

For example, when mice were exposed to virus-size particles of Teflon (0.13 microns) in a University of Rochester study, there were no ill effects. But when mice were exposed to nano-particles of Teflon for 15 minutes, nearly all the mice died within 4 hours.
...
Two additional scientific study teams were sent to Afghanistan. The first arrived in June 2002, concentrating on the Jalalabad region. The second arrived four months later, broadening the study to include the capital Kabul, which has a population of nearly 3.5 million people. The city itself contains the highest recorded number of fixed targets during Operation Enduring Freedom. For the study's purposes, the vicinity of three major bomb sites were examined. It was predicted that signatures of depleted or enriched uranium would be found in the urine and soil samples taken during the research. The team was unprepared for the shock of its findings, which indicated in both Jalalabad and Kabul, DU was causing the high levels of illness. Tests taken from a number of Jalalabad subjects showed concentrations 400% to 2000% above that for normal populations, amounts which have not been recorded in civilian studies before.
...
"They do not want to admit that they committed war crimes" by using weapons that kill indiscriminately, which are banned under international law."

(NOTE ABOUT DR. DURAKOVIC;  First, he was warned to stop his work, then he was fired from his position, then his house was ransacked, and he has also reported receiving death threats.  Evidently the U.S. D.O.D is very keen on censoring DU whistle-blowers!)
...

Not nice to know we are funding this.

Not nice to hear of a Welsh police officer not paying his tax after finding out it's nature and illegality.

Not nice to know the whole charade of a political process and the guise of democracy and mainstream media warmonger still have a significant hold on so many sheople.

Not nice to engage to the brainwashed masses in my home town after 15 years research and good intent only to receive the prized title of a conspiracy theorist and see massive clouding of the senses. Oh what a lovely war!

The man that officially denies us the belief that man is anything other than a really old swamp dweller actually says that life could have been 'seeded' here, but only if it was from aliens who themselves came out of swamps!  :clap:

Many presentation are availabubble on youtube etc to invoke your own thoughts on such important matters, but as long as the TV says the internet lies about everything we can order another pizza.

http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php/topic,3858.msg22154.html#msg22154
In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.

Offline Simon

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2012, 07:46:09 PM »
Not nice to engage to the brainwashed masses in my home town after 15 years research and good intent only to receive the prized title of a conspiracy theorist and see massive clouding of the senses. Oh what a lovely war!

Oh Rob... what are we to do with you? You highlight some important issues which I think the plotically aware TS members are interested in, e.g. use of depleted uranium in the war zones which our political leaders have created. I think your heart is in the right place  O0

But then you spoil it for yourself by saying things to which the average person would say "what a load of bollocks" (including copy/pasting pages from the web).

Many presentation are availabubble on youtube etc to invoke your own thoughts on such important matters, but as long as the TV says the internet lies about everything we can order another pizza.

I don't care what the telly says. I last watched telly last weekend when the Eurovision song contest was on. I was at a party, the main aim of the party was to take the p!ss out of said contest (and we did).

I last had a pizza several weeks ago.

The www contains many truths and many lies. I trust my own judgement to distinguish between them.


Why am I opposed to nuclear power?

It's bloody expensive. Commisioning, operating, and then decommissioning a nuclear power plant, and then making sure that its waste products aren't going to cause a headache (or worse) for our descendants. How much will that cost? Remember that all funding which goes to nuclear solutions will be denied to genuinely renewable energy solutions.

If we were able to switch today from fossil fuels to nuclear, nuclear would only keep the lights on for a handful of decades. Remember, just as there is a limited amount of fossil fuel in the ground, the amount of uranium in the ground is finite.

We (the UK) have the best potential for offshore wind generation in Europe. Why aren't we using it >:(?
We are all in this together, but some of us are more in it than others (with apologies to George Orwell)

Offline Rob

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2012, 12:20:24 AM »
Like i said -  :bash:

Free energy devices will soon be widespread once all the corruption and suppression is weeded out.  :bottom:
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Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2012, 10:41:42 AM »
Simon, if the wind generation is as good as that one down at Reading, then well be paying for it big time,
no matter what solution comes up, there is a financial problem to it.. :wink:

Offline I Could Do That

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2012, 11:55:52 AM »
It is a great shame / embarrassment that Britain is not THE world leader in alternative energy.

We have a reasonably educated populace and all the necessary resources.

We have sufficient evidence that nuclear is not the ultimate solution and is potentially lethal.

We have enough boffins to improve the efficiency of solar and wind power.

We are perfectly adorned with surrouding tidal forces and offshore winds, high open landscapes, valleys that act as wind tunnels, etc.

There's also the famous british weather.
The forces contained in our ever changing weather are massive.

Not expecting anyone to plug into a thunderstorm, but our constant temperature changes (enough force to crack concrete) could almost certainly be used.

Right. I've talked myself into it.....
I'm setting up a lab.
Where do I buy bunsen burners, test tubes, stethoscopes... ::)
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Offline Mart

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2012, 10:35:29 PM »
Free energy devices will soon be widespread

No.

They won't.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2012, 04:10:19 PM »
Im about to have solar panels fitted to my roof, so why cant the Gov, instead of giving away millions in 'overseas aid', lob out a few of these to the people of the UK?. :wink:

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Re: Are nuclear power plants going to stay switched on in Britain?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2012, 05:10:56 PM »
They are Kohima - under the feed in tariff for every Kwh generated.