Author Topic: Budget 2012  (Read 2608 times)

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Offline bobwright

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Budget 2012
« on: March 21, 2012, 02:30:16 PM »
The caring Conservatives have shown they care about the ones they have always cared for, the rich. Tax avoidance continues and because the 50% Tax rate has not realised all that it could have it is to be reduced to produce even less?

They day the myth ‘of us all being in this together’ was exposed as just that a myth and welcome to Divided Britain. The myth only contains one grain of truth the Lib Dems are still in it together.



Offline Des Moffatt

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Re: Budget 2012
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2012, 04:32:46 PM »
I gave Ed a round of applause for the gibe at Cameron “Now you can afford your own horse”

Offline Muggins

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Re: Budget 2012
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2012, 04:43:38 PM »
I don't know what he meant by that, I could see it amused others. When he started his response my heart sank - he looked so petulant, but he gathered speed and did a pretty good job of pointing out anomolies, I think - and had some fun with it.

Shall we start a Save Wallace and Gromit Thread?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Des Moffatt

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Re: Budget 2012
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2012, 05:24:16 PM »
His mate, Rebecca Brooks, the disgraced newspaper woman was given a Met police horse to play with for a while and Cameron was forced to admit he had had a go on it.

Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Budget 2012
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2012, 05:38:34 PM »
Is that the woman, Des, who Gordon went to her wedding and also had her at his house for a weekend 'sleepover;, :wink:

Offline Tobes

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Re: Budget 2012
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2012, 06:05:50 PM »
This has to be one of the most disappointing budgets in YEARS.

Further belt-tightening I could stomach - but not the aching hypocrisy of cutting those on fantastical wages even more slack. They are the same people who's 'expertise' in managing big business and the economies of the western world that got us all into this state, and yet merely asking for them to pay a little more to help prevent people starve or for the NHS not to become totally run by greedy private interest is supposedly too much.

We've just witnessed the nadir of the popularity of the Lib Dems as a result of this - and, sadly, for those of us opposed to New Labours concepts of micro-managing and near fascistic state interference, an open door for them at the next election.

This country is an ethically depressing place to live at the moment - we are so utterly mis-served by the obsolete ideologies of the three main parties.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Muggins

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Re: Budget 2012
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2012, 06:40:42 PM »
This country is an ethically depressing place to live at the moment .

I said as much to Mr Muggins this morning - as we both stand at the doorway of our old age, well, one foot over the threshold really. 

Despite being ' economically inactive'  the governments biggest joke ever!  I would never have forseen in all the inroads into the various *prejudices we have made over the years, the fastest backslide to everything being aimed at the male, age 35, white.

* this morning, tried explaining 'prejudice' to Issy (aged 11 next week). She got it straight away, she has a friend who is being bullied 'for being different' and the only thing Issy can think off is that is she is in a foster home at the moment.  Unbelievable. 
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Simon

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Re: Budget 2012
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2012, 09:41:34 PM »
The normal argument in favour of giving tax breaks to the rich is that they are "wealth creators", and that if it costs them too much to be here then they'll just jump ship and "create wealth" somewhere cheaper, so we need to be the cheapest place for them to "create wealth" so that they will continue to "create wealth" here.

Now I studied physics at degree level, and therefore know that neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another. I think the same principle applies to wealth. Nobody creates it, they just transfer it from whatever resource they've found into their company's balance sheet, and from there some of it trickles down to their employees and their suppliers' employees, and from there to the people who sell the things that those people want to buy.

So... Do TSers believe in "wealth creation"?
We are all in this together, but some of us are more in it than others (with apologies to George Orwell)

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Budget 2012
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2012, 12:27:47 AM »
The normal argument in favour of giving tax breaks to the rich is that they are "wealth creators", and that if it costs them too much to be here then they'll just jump ship and "create wealth" somewhere cheaper, so we need to be the cheapest place for them to "create wealth" so that they will continue to "create wealth" here.

I listened to a very interesting radio documentary some time back which discussed 'wealth creators' regular threats to jump ship.  Expert opinion seemed to be that very few follow through with their threats, and those that do were planning to leave for greener pastures anyway.

Bottom line is, I think, that the 'wealth creators' argument is a convenient political device for justifying economic policy decisions which benefit the wealthy and disbenefit the majority of tax paying workers.

Normal workers are the engine of wealth creation, those at the top point the engine in,  (hopefully), the right direction of travel.

Bankers are obviously shite engine drivers and are better suited to the role of economic boiler stokers.....

Offline Muggins

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Re: Budget 2012
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2012, 07:55:51 AM »
So... Do TSers believe in "wealth creation"?

Had much the same thought.   All are necessary to it.  Having a good idea and the cash to invest it, wouldn't go very far without all the manufacturers of said good idea and support workers behind them - and the people to buy it once made. 
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline DavidPayne

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Re: Budget 2012
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2012, 04:05:22 PM »
Bottom line is, I think, that the 'wealth creators' argument is a convenient political device for justifying economic policy decisions which benefit the wealthy and disbenefit the majority of tax paying workers.

Normal workers are the engine of wealth creation, those at the top point the engine in,  (hopefully), the right direction of travel.

Quite! - There are none who ever 'created' great wealth (and the personal Mega-Riches that 'entrepreuners' are prone to cream off in the process) with their own 'hands'. Profit of any substabtial scale, no matter what the initiative is always made off the 'backs' of others (slavery, ancient or modern [see 'minimum wage']) - or is gifted - or stolen and in all cases involves a massive helping of some combination of privilege and luck.

Step forward the big employer who wants to argue - and explain how you'd have got to where you are without that body of under-paid employees constrained by economic design to work for far less than they are worth.

We are all "wealth-makers" or none of us

(Adapted from a previous comment)

Offline Mart

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Re: Budget 2012
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2012, 05:20:00 PM »
All budgets are shit.

Always have been.

Always will be.

There is not 1 day of the year when fiscal policy is set. There are 365 where it fiscal stuff just happens and Government simply reacts.

Unless one of the buggers gets up and does something completley original, like abandon income tax, the budget will for the most part remain largely irrelevant in the general ebb and flow of money through your life. The most ambitious of the gits latterly counts it as success to change nothing overall.

Or p'raps I just don't like Chancellors.

I think they should have an income equivalent to the national average to concentrate their mind, we'll bung them a performance related bonus when they call it a day, or we call it a day for them.
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