Author Topic: false rumours in Gorsehill?  (Read 6559 times)

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Offline Steve Wakefield

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false rumours in Gorsehill?
« on: March 14, 2012, 10:10:52 PM »
I was there on Saturday and all I saw was a list of 10 questions from local people to ask the developer. I did not hear any false rumours.

Question number 10 to ask the developer.
Quote
Is it true that you have done a deal with the Council and Bethesda Church to allow access to Malvern Road?


Does anyone know how question 10 was answered by the developer as I did not go into the event or for that matter how were the other 9 answered?

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9590067.Developer_moves_to_squash__false__rumours/?ref=la


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Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 10:15:26 PM »
This was posted by Des Moffatt on another thread  whilst I was starting this thread
Quote

There is an on line article by the developer who seeks to build houses on seven acres of former allotment and eight acres of designated open space in Gorse Hill.

No Councillor representing Gorse Hill or Western was asked for comment on this smearing attempt by the developer. No-one was discouraged from entering their event by us and we certainly did not prevent anyone from attending, nor was any visitor asked to sign our petition before they entered.

Until people started arriving by yellow taxi cab in last half hour no-one refused to sign our petition.
We have made no false statement.

Haboakus and the detail of their proposals are irrelevant to our campaign to defend Swindon urban open space. We are determined to defend this and all the green corridors in Swindon created and defended by generations of proper civic leaders of both parties. The space we need and enjoy is not up for negotiation with any developer even if they were prepared to pay the proper value of the land.

That is pretty much how I viewed it except for the Taxis I left before then.
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Offline Des Moffatt

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2012, 11:52:52 PM »
My message to the developer is simply we don't want to discuss the detail of your plan, we don't want any development on public open space.
The yellow cab does need a bit of explaining but I am afraid I can't explain. Why would a couple of people presumably living in vicinity of the public open space with to visible physical impediment arrive by yellow cab which waited for the occupants who engaged us in conversation on leaving the event singing the praises of the scheme. Is there a yellow cab company in Swindon?

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2012, 07:36:04 AM »
My message to the developer is simply we don't want to discuss the detail of your plan, we don't want any development on public open space.


Des

That is the sentiment from people I have spoken to in Gorsehill and here is a photo from Saturday



and a poster

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Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill? The 10 questions
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2012, 07:47:06 AM »
This is a copy of the 10 questions I referred to in the opening post on this thread

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Offline Rochelle

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2012, 08:12:19 AM »
Questions are just that - questions and people are entitled to ask them in a free country without being labelled malicious rumour - mongers.
As we all know, rumours often have a habit of turning into facts anyway... particularly in places where deals are done behind closed doors and where local authorities are not necessarily as open and transparent as they could be.
Long after developers and local politicians are gone, communities remain to live with the consequences and they have every right to stand up and fight for what's theirs without being smeared or slandered.
For the record, I have done a considerable amount of door knocking on this issue. I have neither lied, or spread malicious rumours, nor has anyone I have been canvassing with.
If anyone thinks they have evidence to the contrary I suggest they produce it, name me and take the consequences.
Not everything can be stage managed, sometimes real people get in the way of that and say sorry, we don't think so. Deal with it.
I was at the public consultation between 9.45am and 2.00pm last Saturday.
Not one person was coerced, harassed, intimidated or prevented from entering the consultation.
The only obstruction was caused by the police standing in the gateway who in my opinion were heavy- handed, certainly none was caused by the respectful, civilised group of legitimate protesters who engaged with representatives from Haboakus and members of the public in a wholly appropriate manner.

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2012, 08:33:27 AM »
Questions are just that - questions and people are entitled to ask them in a free country without being labelled malicious rumour - mongers.

As we all know, rumours often have a habit of turning into facts anyway... particularly in places where deals are done behind closed doors and where local authorities are not necessarily as open and transparent as they could be.
Long after developers and local politicians are gone, communities remain to live with the consequences and they have every right to stand up and fight for what's theirs without being smeared or slandered.

For the record, I have done a considerable amount of door knocking on this issue. I have neither lied, or spread malicious rumours, nor has anyone I have been canvassing with.

If anyone thinks they have evidence to the contrary I suggest they produce it, name me and take the consequences.
Not everything can be stage managed, sometimes real people get in the way of that and say sorry, we don't think so. Deal with it.

I was at the public consultation between 9.45am and 2.00pm last Saturday.
Not one person was coerced, harassed, intimidated or prevented from entering the consultation.
The only obstruction was caused by the police standing in the gateway who in my opinion were heavy- handed, certainly none was caused by the respectful, civilised group of legitimate protesters who engaged with representatives from Haboakus and members of the public in a wholly appropriate manner.

Rochelle good post by the way where did the yellow cabs come from? I left before then, what I can say is that during the time I was there a lot of people signed the petition and I note that another petition not from Gorsehill collected some signatures as well.

I did not do any door knocking, but the people who spoke to me were I have to say a long way from considering the very thought of their green open space being concreted over. 
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Rochelle

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2012, 09:00:17 AM »
The yellow cabs came from Chippenham Steve.
As for the "malicious rumours" The Bethesda church matter was originally brought to residents attention by Katie Scaife from Westlea Housing back in 2008 as a possible alternative access so it is little wonder that people are asking perfectly legitimate questions about it.
The matter of the football pitches was raised in scrutiny, again openly and legitimately so it can hardly be considered a malicious rumour.
It seems to me that the developers themselves have just created the impression that they have tried to spread a malicious rumour of their own, though of course they no doubt simply meant to set the record straight as they see it and level out the playing field ( no pun intended).
I'm sure residents would like to have a level playing field too, whenever these situations arise, wonder how many of them think they do?

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2012, 09:15:48 AM »
Rochelle

Thanks for that information good to see a Taxi or was it Taxis from Chippenham came to a consultation in Gorsehill so it looks like near the end  the consultation turned into an international draw? Perhaps that is a demonstration of how far and wide TS is read ;D
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline LimpGaribaldi

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 01:19:23 PM »
Until people started arriving by yellow taxi cab in last half hour no-one refused to sign our petition.
We have made no false statement

This is a statement of non truth - I attended the consultation at around 10.15, and left after a good look round and asking questions which took around half an hour or so

I was asked to sign the petition outside

I refused

Did I not exist? Or as someone who took an interest but did not agree, did I not count?

If Des ever comes a knocking I will take great pleasure ripping a strip from him - in the meantime i'll add my observations.

The signs outside are all from the same hand, hardly constitutes a widespread outcry when only one person bothers to buy the card and draw the signs.

The Policeman was friendly from my perspective.

I would rather live in this development than the arse ugly coach house arangement I walked past on the way to the school.


Offline Muggins

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 02:14:06 PM »
"The signs outside are all from the same hand, hardly constitutes a widespread outcry when only one person bothers to buy the card and draw the signs2

Not me on this occasion but as someone who does usually get given this sort of job - just because it looks like one person's work, does not mean that it is one persons idea to put signs up. Local groups don't have the cash to nip to the nearest print shop and have them done 'professionally'.   

So are you comparing one new development on a brown field site with another new development on a green field site?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Rochelle

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2012, 03:59:33 PM »
Sir,
As quite a few people were entering and leaving the building and more than one person was asking people if they wished to sign the petition is it possible you were asked by someone other than Des?
I consider having the police guarding the gate for four hours of a public consultation, ostensibly to protect Haboakus and the public from one man who had not even been charged with any offence to be heavy-handed. They did not respond to requests to move to one side to allow people to pass through unobstructed. I consider this to be heavy-handed.
The gentleman who did the boards volunteered to do so on behalf of a large group of people, because he had the materials to hand.

Offline Tobes

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2012, 04:01:49 PM »
I think the soggy end of his garibaldi just dropped off into his tea...

 :wink:
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline helen thompson

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2012, 06:18:19 PM »
i have just come back from Greensquare in westlea doing some training and there was a major meeting in the boardroom over gorse hill development all day
hot news or not!

Offline LimpGaribaldi

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2012, 09:52:21 PM »
Rochelle - it was myself, my husband and two children coming out, there were no others, there were three protestors who saw us approach and one asked us to sign a petition to which we both replied "no thank you". This is why I am angry, a tendency to speak in absolutes may get you a headline but I have lost all respect for your cause by a stupid lie. What makes you any different from bluh apart from I expect it from him.

Offline LimpGaribaldi

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2012, 10:12:54 PM »
Muggins - I honestly can't make up my mind about it, that's why I went to the consultation.

Offline Chav

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2012, 11:06:08 PM »
Muggins - I honestly can't make up my mind about it, that's why I went to the consultation.
If in doubt ask more questions. If i thought I was being blagged by some jammy dodger they would end up with a fig roll right in the Oreo.

Seriously though,, keep asking questions until you are saticfied that you have the answers you need.

Right I'm off for a party ring now
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Rochelle

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2012, 07:55:49 AM »
Sir,
It is not my cause, it is the community's cause. I am merely an elected representative supporting local residents who are unhappy that the decision to dispose of green space, to any developer, when there are brownfield sites available is an unsound one.
If you are a resident of my ward, Gorsehill and Pinehurst, then I also represent you and your family and if you tell me where you live ( privately of course) i am more than happy to record your support of the development.
Possibly, if Haboakus are persuasive enough, more people will come forward in support. Currently the vast majorlty of residents that I have spoken to are against, a smaller number have no opinion or have expressed a lack of interest as they don't feel it will affect them.
You are the first person I have had direct contact with (albeit via a pseudonym) who is in support of the development, though I am not sure if this is based on a positive reaction to the plan or a negative reaction to a post by Des.
You seem to have dismissed a large group of people and their concerns based on this one post, if you are genuinely interested in seeking answers, you may wish to reconsider and ask questions of both sides.
As your ward councillor I will meet up with you at your convenience and provide more information if you require it.
Currently, I have a mandate to represent the "against development campaign" as a petition set up to protect the Pickards Field area and have the issue debated in Council garnered 470 signatures, most of which were collected in one day. There is another, more general petition trying to protect green open spaces in Swindon, which is also garnering lots of signatures. This is the petition you will have been asked to sign.
Might I suggest that if you feel strongly enough that this development of green space should go ahead, you put together a petition yourself, it is a good way of testing local opinion.
Finally, I would like to stress that no-one is against the provision of affordable homes and it matters not a jot who the developer is, what is important to campaigners is the protection of urban open space which is dwindling alarmingly ( I can show you maps which proves this).
I am absolutely in favour of smaller developments, on brownfield sites which have less of an impact on the existing infrastructure and do not encroach on precious open space.
Kevin McCloud stated in a national newspaper that it should be "brownfield first" so I am at a loss as to why his company is so intent on pursuing this particular green space.

Offline Muggins

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2012, 08:32:50 AM »
It would be difficult to understand the effect of development in an already overcrowded area unless you've experienced it - not just the finished product but during development as well, so questions do need to be asked on both sides.

Too many people do still shrug their shoulders and think it won't effect them, or that they can't make a difference. The meek shall inherit the tarmac!

There are also people who just don't get the need for open spaces - especially developers, who's idea of open space is a highly manicured space, requiring high maintenance to keep it all under control. 

But one thing for sure is that the developers (from the highest boss to the bloke on the dumper on the day) are not there to make the world a better place, save us money or care for that matter!  To get the best out of it, when a development starts local people have to be in a position to be able either to stop it altogether or chip bits of the planned projects - or indeed, get bits put in - in the case of Pritchards Field it seemed to be a forced on issue from the start.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline LimpGaribaldi

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Re: false rumours in Gorsehill?
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2012, 09:15:12 AM »
I am in central ward - so yes I do have a sense of overcrowding and lack of greenspace. Given that a needed primary school is about to be built on either a park and nursery, a park and community centre or a maintenance depot in the county round park I have an appreciation of the pressures of development.

I went to see what may be put on the land - and I quite liked the development, it wasn't five story high blocks like by whsmith at greenbridge.

That doesn't mean I want open space built on

I would like to see that list of brownfield sites with a contaminated land survey completed though.