Author Topic: No Trick or Treat poster  (Read 8277 times)

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Offline Jean

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No Trick or Treat poster
« on: October 25, 2011, 07:31:34 AM »
If you can't abide 'Trick or Treat', you can download a poster to display from Wiltshire Police on the following page

http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3343:halloween&catid=46:campaigns&Itemid=412

That doesn't mean that you won't get disturbed!

 :knuppel2:


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Offline the gorgon

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2011, 09:04:11 AM »
Seeing as 'trick or treat' is largely an American invention people should follow the American convention of only 'trick or treating' houses with Halloween decorations and stuff outside.

I appreciate your post Jean but people really shouldn't have to opt-out of extortion with menaces - give us treats or we'll terrorise you.  :censored:

Offline Muggins

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2011, 09:23:40 AM »
I would rather they trick and treated than have that awful celebration with the fireworks!!

THE SOONER THAT's BANNED THE BETTER........... :knuppel2: :knuppel2: :knuppel2:

I mostly enjoyed the kids annual visit, until last year when I couldn't keep getting up and down, so I spoke to the parents beforehand (this also meant I had annual chat with my neighbours) and had no problem at all - blessums!
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Tobes

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 01:35:44 AM »
Quote
I would rather they trick and treated than have that awful celebration with the fireworks!!

THE SOONER THAT's BANNED THE BETTER........... :knuppel2: :knuppel2: :knuppel2:

What an old curmudgeon! Why spoil the enjoyment of the 98% of people who behave responsibly just because of the 1% who don't? (or the 1% who just don't like fireworks full stop)

Christ alive, enough things have already been banned by the world's kill-joys!!!  :'(
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Alex

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 07:52:58 AM »
Ahh Tobes- not necessarily "kill-joys" but "animal lovers".  :)

Its not good seeing a much loved pet in  state of trauma because of the sound of fireworks.

Trying to get a pill down a rescue cat to calm it causes even more  trauma.

It would be less bad  if it were just one day but it is repeated. Last night for instance. It didn't stop till 11 ish.

 :argh:

Offline Jean

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 08:28:54 AM »
The setting off of fireworks should be banned outside November 5th. 

I agree totally with what Alex and Muggins have written.

It is an extremely traumatic experience for animals. I have no idea what it does to wildlife and livestock but my experience with cats is that the majority are very frightened by the experience.

   
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Offline Muggins

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2011, 08:36:59 AM »
Even the 'responsible' ones can't keep it to one night, organised displays are every day all week end and every day all the next weekend.

We won't talk about many people hurt every year.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Tobes

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2011, 10:18:42 AM »
Well, I'm sorry my timorous three ladies (thats a joke btw, you're all 'redoubtable'!) - I like 'em. They're an expression of fun and freedom and ephemeral beauty. My cat seems to treat them with disdain so Jean's assertion that

Quote
It is an extremely traumatic experience for animals

... simply isn't true. It may be for some. Perhaps many animals pick up their fear based on the reaction of their owners?

I'd suggest more cats and dogs live lives of discomfort because their owners can't/won't feed or exercise them properly than those who suffer from bangs and whistles for a few weeks each year. Maybe we should ban pets entirely and eradicate 100% of their suffering?

If you're worried, surely you keep your animals inside? Its worked pretty well that way for the last 100 years.

Come on - there's room for all. I think its a little bit draconian to ban a tradition which has thrived for years and years and brings pleasure to millions because a few moggies hide under the bed.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline the gorgon

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 12:01:43 PM »
Tobes has a really good point about cats/dogs and fireworks.  If you think about it fireworks are just fancy multicoloured thunder and lightning. 

Guy Fawkes/Bonfire night is probably the single festival that us Brits can claim as being totally our own. It has been a shame to watch it decline over the years, when I was a kid Halloween was an also-ran. To be honest I think it's largely due to supermarkets going down the easy route of copying what the Americans do with their commercialisation of Halloween.

Offline Muggins

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 12:12:13 PM »
You are alright then, Tobes, that your animals are not disturbed by them, do you stop in every year with them whilst the fireworks are going off, if you do, what night do you choose, to either stay in or go out?  Do you also stay home of New Years with them, and/or any night inbetween, and then there's those nights after Bonfire bight when the supermarkets sell them off cheap leads to yet another barrage'

Keep the animals in?  mmm now what night shall we do that?  (Titter here, as there is NO chance they would go out anyway).

Over the years, I've had - lost count of cats I've had, about 13?  some were, some were not worried by them, of the dogs, none of them liked them but the last one trembled in fear and I was really scared he would peg out, so violent was his shaking.  And that happened EVERY night for weeks. So it couldn;t have been me, I wasn't frightened of them but i was flipping angry.

Unfortunately Fireworks are one of those pleasures in which people over indulge   And like someone said this morning, them that make them, them that sell them and them that buy them and them that let them off, don't give a damn.

Just one night in a lifetime have I enjhoyed them and that was when 1999 turned into 2000, and for one glorious once, everyone let their fireworks of in one magnificent half hour and it was a wonderful thing to see, from where I am , it was like being in the middle of a huge sparkling Catherine Wheel.

Apart from that ..... they are pain in the neck.   I have no animals now.

and there must be plenty of money around for people to waste.

Gorgon, I think you'll find that Halloween is a much, much older festival than Guy Fawkes night. 
   
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 12:47:37 PM »
The other night in Swindon there were lots of fireworks all to do with Diwali festival of light, is that what you are referring to?

Offline Jean

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 01:51:21 PM »
I've had 14 cats over the last 40 odd years. None have been scared by thunder and lightning - some have not been bothered by fireworks, others have been terrified.  It's nothing to do with the owner's reaction, Tobes.

I presume that the same is true for other domestic and wild species.

It is only in the last few years that fireworks have been let off over many days/weeks. Firework night was always held on November 5 even if it was a schoolday and pouring with rain. As Muggins said, you can't prepare for looking after your pet when it goes on for so long and what about wildlife?   
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Offline Muggins

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 02:23:05 PM »
Diwali just adds to the problems, you don't need fireworks for a festival of lights.

I blame Tony Blair, it was him that said 'get your fireworks out and celebrate the Millennium. 
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Tobes

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2011, 08:06:41 PM »
Quote
If you think about it fireworks are just fancy multicoloured thunder and lightning. 


Exactly - and animals will have no way of distinguishing between the two. Animals -like children - get spooked and scared by all sorts of things. How many times have we heard of horses bucking off a rider because a piece of paper has blown from under a hedgerow...! Its a bit like the old cry of 'will no one think of the children!'

 :wink:

If I was in a minority of killjoys regarding a particular tradition because it impinged upon me in some way, I'd like to hope that, whilst grumbling about it (and maybe campaigning about irresponsible behaviour) , I'd at least concede that I lived in a society which was liberal enough to let them get on with their own particular form of pleasure. I wouldn't be seeking to ban it entirely, just because it occasionally upset my cat or dog!?

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and there must be plenty of money around for people to waste.


Now you really are being selectively curmudgeonly! I suspect, if I were to use the same logic to suggest that other people claiming poverty were being disingenuous, you'd give me short shrift: Nevertheless, lots of people in certain areas of town described as impoverished seem to be able to afford more than the average number of Sky dishes per house - and according to health reports, also house more than the average number of smokers, heavy drinkers... and staffie-cross pet owners too! Freedom for people to spend their money for their own enjoyment is a two edged sword. I'd be very careful condemning one and defending the other.

Quote
I've had 14 cats over the last 40 odd years. None have been scared by thunder and lightning - some have not been bothered by fireworks, others have been terrified.  It's nothing to do with the owner's reaction, Tobes.


No Jean - if you think that, I'd respectfully suggest you know little about animal psychology or training. Dogs and horses are especially attuned to an owners reaction to things like loud noises. Cats can be more sensitive to their owners reactions than we give credit too. This is an extract from just one training site (there are dozens more giving the same advice - the RSPCA say pretty much the same thing too) - http://dogs.about.com/od/dogbehaviorproblems/a/fireworks-phobias-in-dogs.htm

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# Don't change your behavior. Many people feel compelled to baby their dogs when the dog is showing signs of fear. We pet them more than usual, cuddle them, and talk to them in soft voices. Rather than easing a dog's fears, however, this often reinforces the dog's fearful behaviors.
# Try not to react to the fireworks yourself. If you jump or tense up when you hear fireworks because you are anticipating your dog's fear, you may make his fear worse. Your body language can tell a dog that there is a reason to be afraid.


Note - many of the same sites refer to thunderstorms AND fireworks in the same sections - many cats and dogs at least can't distinguish between the two. To them its just a loud noise (unless their owners reaction provides the distinction, of course)

And as for wildlife: I grew up on Salisbury plain - an area where the bangs, whistles and huge flashes make November the 5th looks like a kids tea party. It carries on pretty much all year round. Those same military training areas contain some of the richest biodiversity in the UK. I lived there for 20 years - and never once did I hear of an issue with wildlife being effected by the noise (given that I was a local beekeeper, worked on several farms and knew the range wardens, I would have expected to). Animals, devoid of human interaction and fear, seem to get on just fine.

Come on ladies, ease off on others having fun! God knows, we all need some.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Jean

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2011, 07:47:45 AM »
We will just have to agree to disagree, Tobes. Your evidence points to dogs whilst I was talking about cats and my own experiences. I like fireworks, so I'm not passing on any fear to my pets. You still haven't addressed Muggins point complaining that fireworks are let off for weeks now - should pet owners lock up their pets for all this time? And has anyone done a study on the impact on livestock and wildlife?

In my experience fireworks produce a different response to thunder and lightning, whilst fireworks on the television provoke no reaction at all in a frightened cat. Explain that if you can.
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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2011, 08:22:25 AM »
Tobes has a point and I am always reminded how tolerant people in Britain are. I like Firewoks, I like seeing people enjoying themselves, I like to see people learning about health and safety I like to see communal bonfie events, 4th july, Diwali, turning on Swindon's Christmas lights, New Years celebration etc, even in the theatre.

Do I make myself clear people like to have fun and I tolerate it.  I love my animals and do all I can possible to care for them. I  believe Britain through my eyes is a tolerant country. Light up the sky and let's celebrate that!

Offline Muggins

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2011, 08:56:44 AM »
And was Tobes on Penhill (or environs) last night?  27th October

I say environs becasue when you live on a hil,l if anyone does anything noisy in the valleys surrounding it, you get that too.

11.10 pm. went to bed,  it was so hot opened the window a little, started reading, started dozing.   BANG!  started reading again, started dozing, BANG - BANG - BANG.  now flipping annoyed so now not dozing but alert. 5 minutes pass, reading again, dozing again - BANG,  BANG. 12 oclock all quiet but will it stay that way?  Wide awake, still reading.  Get's up, closes windows, fries. And all that for 5 bangs! 

Bad tempered and crotchety, this morning - funny, all neighbours look that way too. 

And we are being called selfish. Pah.

Tobes, bless you, I take it you haven't had that many pets, they can tell the difference.
they hear and smell (as in what they can smell!) a whole lot better than we do. By the way the street smelled of firework smell when I closed the window.

I'd be a whole lot more tolerant of it if it was kept to one day, or even maybe, so many days a year - and organised events.   

Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Jean

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2011, 10:06:31 AM »

I'd be a whole lot more tolerant of it if it was kept to one day, or even maybe, so many days a year - and organised events.

Exactly so. None of us have said that setting off fireworks should be banned.
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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2011, 10:24:32 AM »

11.10 pm. went to bed,  it was so hot opened the window a little, started reading, started dozing.   BANG!  started reading again, started dozing, BANG - BANG - BANG.  now flipping annoyed so now not dozing but alert. 5 minutes pass, reading again, dozing again - BANG,  BANG. 12 oclock all quiet but will it stay that way?  Wide awake, still reading.  Get's up, closes windows, fries. And all that for 5 bangs! 

Bad tempered and crotchety, this morning - funny, all neighbours look that way too. 

And we are being called selfish. Pah.

The selfish ones are the people letting off the fireworks at 11.10pm theses people are the ones that need to be dealt with. They are spoiling it for the majority of people and families. Do not reward their selfish behaviour the police can and do deal with it. Where are the Penhill Police, PSCOs that report to us their results? If they are doing such a good job they will be on top of this in no time.

If you have this happening to you, why not tell them? It might be a a good starting point that stops this public disorder and nuisance? 

Offline Mellon

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Re: No Trick or Treat poster
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2011, 12:49:38 PM »
Muggins why don't you buy some noise cancelling ear defs or earplugs?

Also this is a pointless argument.........Fireworks are going to be exploding regardless of pets or owners feelings.

Suck it up and get over it folks!
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