Author Topic: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear  (Read 563 times)

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Online Mart

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Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« on: October 07, 2011, 03:23:40 PM »

Is this what that nice Mr Heath had in mind?

Every British household was £299 worse off last year through contributions to the European Union budget.
his was more than double the cost of the previous year, according to Brussels accounts published yesterday.
Britain's contributions rose to £10.5 billion – up £3.8 billion or 56 per cent – following cuts to the EU rebate, agreed by Tony Blair in 2005.
The average family paid £672 towards the EU in 2010 but got back only £373, the difference between contributions to Brussels and the funding benefits.
The net loss for Britons is growing sharply, the payout more than doubled last year, up £171 from £128 in 2009. The increase is because Britain's rising share of EU expenses, is not matched by increases in farm subsidies or social funds. ]
In contrast, Poland paid out £2.9 billion in EU contributions but received £10.2 billion in return as regional funding flowed to the relatively poorer Eastern European country.
Britain is the fourth highest contributor to the EU behind France, Germany and Italy.
But French and Italian contributions are offset by larger returns.
A Government spokesman said: "At a time when governments are implementing tough measures to tackle their deficits, we think European public spending should also be restrained."


it would still make you wince even if it was spent making Europe A Better Place, however:

More than €1.8 billion in funds from the EU's 2010 budget are believed to have been wrongly spent, according to a European Commission report released today (29 September).
According to the report, 10,332 cases of irregularities, including potential fraud, were reported in 2010. By comparison, 7,769 cases, involving €1.4bn in EU funds, were reported in 2009.Nicolas Ilett, a director from OLAF, the EU's anti-fraud office, said that the greatest number of irregularities found in the review of the 2010 budget came from payments from the EU's cohesion policy.
The report, which compiled data sent by member state authorities and the Commission, found that 7,062 cases of irregularities were reported in cohesion policy payments, worth €1.6bn. Of that amount, €364 million is suspected to have been affected by fraud.
The second highest number of reported irregular payments were found in payments from the EU's agricultural funds. More than 1,800 cases of irregularities were reported to the Commission, involving €131m, of which €69m is suspected to have involved fraud.
Pre-accession aid to candidate countries, including funds which were paid to Bulgaria and Romania in 2010, was the third largest part of the EU's budget affected by irregularities.


and just in case you had any lingering causes for hope:

A group of European politicians is plotting to impose the financial transaction tax (FTT) in a way that Britain would be powerless to veto, a British MEP has warned.

She said a group led by Algirdas Semeta, the European tax commissioner, had "already started work" on presenting FTT as a valued added tax (VAT) - which could be imposed without being ratified by a vote and therefore strip Britain of its right to veto.
Under European rules, new taxes have to be agreed unanimously by all members but VAT can become law with a simple majority.
The move was criticised as a "tax on the City of London", where almost 80pc of Europe's financial services are based.
 

and Dave still won't give us a referendum.

Git.

As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

Online Muggins

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 03:55:46 PM »

This is not such a daft question as you might think, but do you think maybe, that we are not getting our fairshare of returns, because we aren't asking for them, or are unable to write suitable bids to get them?
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Online the gorgon

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 05:23:37 PM »

Every household might well be £299 worse off but...

How much worse off would every household if we weren't in the EU?
Don't forget why would the likes of Honda and BMW want to stay in a UK that isn't in the EU (when land and labour is so much cheaper in non EU countries like Turkey)?

As the saying goes better the devil you know (EU membership) than the devil you don't (non-membership).

Offline kohima

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 05:36:08 PM »

Gorgon, sorry for the name, how do the other members of europe do who are not in the EU, how does surely the biggest exporter to the EU do with not being in the eu, China, they all do very well, live and let live, its the same as when they say they'll put up the taxes for banks, they all say they'll run elsewhere, but do they no, the money we put into the EU could clear any debt we have and more to spend on ourselves, you only have to ask why they wont certify the accounts and havent done so for year now, because of the wangles going on, that cost us a fortune....

Online Mart

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 07:57:26 PM »

There's also the distinct possibility that we could reach accomodations with major employers without the restrictions placed on us by EU law, not saying it as fact, but it's a thought.

There is the possibilty that our calculated net loss, as calculated by the EU, includes the measurable benefits derived from companies like Honda. If that benefit is directly attributable to the EU I cannot imagine they would omit it from their own financial publications, no matter how tenuous the connection.

It is also possible that a unilateral withdrawal would bring a dollop of pain, infinitely preferable would be a structured dismantling of much of the machinery and a managed withdrawal until we reach the intended state of a loosely linked trading association, but then the net takers will never sign up to that and we'll continue pumping in £45m per day. Turkeys will never vote or Christmas.

Sticking to financial matters, tempting though straight bananas and the demise of the gallon might be, it is really irritating thatthe EU will cheerfully admit that £1.6m has efectively gone 'poof', I can almost imagine the gallic shrug that accompanied the pronouncement.

Final thought for this rantette is that the EU auditors have failed to balance the books for 15 successive years, there is a view that to open the books up to external indepedent auditors would not necessarily spell the end, but perhaps the beginning of the end.
As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

Online Mart

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 09:08:21 PM »

An annuver fing:

http://www.defencegreece.com/index.php/2011/10/the-u-s-approved-to-grant-400-m1a1-abrams-to-greece

So, how come we scrap all our kit cos we can't afford it. then give the money saved to the EU so they can give it to the Greeks so they can buy tanks.

To defend themselves against the Turks who are also are allies.

World's gone proper mad.

Someone did mention that if the Government pisses the Greek Army off enough they might regret buying them these nice big shinys.
As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

Offline kohima

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 09:26:25 PM »

Mart, I thought that those in the 'know', were looking at the situation, where we were in '75 and going back to that 'common market' union only and scrapping everthing else, and let the EU ites, go and play with themselves and then we could get our fishing boundaries back, get our farming rights back etc etc, which is one way out of the mess we are in the moment with the EU.

Offline Tobes

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2011, 12:29:21 PM »

The failures of the EU are becoming glaring and numerous - and too important for even those of a europhile tendency to ignore.

1. The famous inability of the EU to manage avoid accusations of corruption, to the extent that this body, which is supposed to manage the financial stability of its members, is discredited to the extent that its own accounts cannot be signed off - as Mart says, FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS!

2. The central management of the EU fails to realise the basic and deep-seated cultural incompatibility of its member nations. Ask a Greek and a German for their interpretation of a reasonable working week. Ask an Italian or a Scot what level of national taxation they think is acceptable - and where it ought to be spent. Tell a Frenchman that there's too much listeria in his cheese. Tell a Brit that he can't sell beer by the pint but by the half litre. Tell a Spaniard that working time directives interfere with his siesta. To attempt to force 'one size fits all' legislation upon people is ridiculous on the one hand, and utterly unfair on the other, when the countries which DO enforce it destroy nationally treasured institutions and put dozens of small companies out of business at cost to the local economy, and the countries which DON'T reap the rewards of fraud and corruption at everyone else's expense.

3. Its demonstrably failed. Its an ever increasing bureaucracy which devours ever more money - but which fails to deliver.

Time to scrap it. What the member nations need is a structure based on the easing and encouragement of trade, NOT a centralised and federal tax or legislative body - and one which seems to exist to fund lavish receptions, jollies abroad and junkets and kick-backs.

I love europe - I don't fear it at all. What I do fear is the heavy handed attempts of petty bureaucrats to erase the very differences which make europe and its member states work as dynamic and separate entities.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam... 'Sex alleviates tension. Love causes it.' - Woody Allen

Online Mart

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2011, 08:08:33 PM »

What he said, I am pro Europe and for that very reason extremely anti EU, I like them less than SBC sometimes!

In fact I wonder if SBC might be a more nimble operation without the EU. My logic is that there are estimates that put the volume of EU sourced legislation at about 75% of the total enacted in the course of a year.

This article is three years old, alomost to the day, and it is from the TPA who aren't exactly fans, but even even if you dial down the figures by an estimated hysteria factor of 50% it's still a mite cheeky:

There are currently 16,980 EU acts in force. Between 1998 and 2007 there has been a net gain of 9,415 EU laws.   
In 2007, 3,010 EU laws became UK law, while only 993 EU regulations were repealed – a net gain of 2,017 extra laws. 
The rate of new EU laws has increased to a record speed, with a net gain of over 2,000 new laws in each of the last two years, compared to an annual average net gain of only 942 new laws between 1998 and 2007. Almost half of the extra 9,415 EU laws created in the last ten years have been introduced in 2006 and 2007. Despite EU rhetoric about reducing regulation, it is growing at a record rate.
Whitehall also adds to the burden: at least 770 pages of UK Statutory Instruments will be needed to enact the 76 Directives passed by the EU in 2007.  Assuming this as an average per year, then EU directives alone have necessitated over 7,700 pages of UK law since 1997.
Despite the enormous amount of EU legislation, UK gold-plating and poor enforcement practices exaggerate the burden of regulation.


For those of you with time to burn I have filtered the 35,000,000 hits for EU law and legislation (I kid you not) down to this little gem.

I'd be interested to know how far you get before you start sobbing. I got to page 2 but I was reading the Bulgarian one.

http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/infringements/infringements_annual_report_28_en.htm

That's just the infringements bit, there's loads more.

The damn organisation is so big it's going to be quite something to dismantle. Personally I could tolerate it if it wound it's neck in and became a sort of Chamber of Commerce, no more, no less.
As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

Online Mart

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2011, 05:02:49 PM »

Kept this one quiet.

It may well have escaped your notice – probably because you have better things to do than to be looking for things to do in Brussels – but as of this week the Belgian capital has become home to a new “tourist attraction”.

On Friday the so-called Parliamentarium is opening – a brand new European Parliament visitor centre which has been paid for by the hard-pressed taxpayer at a cost of £15.5 million – nearly £5 million over budget and opening three years later than originally planned.

The official blurb about the exhibition – which aims to present the history of the EU to its citizens – could not make it sound more ludicrous:

“A highly varied presentation spread out over three floors holds the visitor’s attention. It consists of carefully harmonised narrative spaces, which lend three-dimensional expression to the contents of the exhibition… The Parliamentarium conveys the motto of the European Union, “United in Diversity”, in an emotional manner.”

And be in no doubt, it is propaganda central. The room entitled “United in Diversity” features “a walk-on map spread out over the floor, showing a Europe without borders” and enables visitors to “interactively acquire information on events that caused the European Parliament to draw up regulations that are valid and applicable throughout Europe”.

It includes a “light installation” entitled “Sky of Opinions”, while a special effort has been made to indoctrinate children of the need for the European Union to exist, with a mock-up of the Parliament chamber. Again, according to the official blurb, this will enable them to “learn what it means to actively participate in the idea of a united Europe”.


But that is only a taster

EP Bureau decides to set up a "House of European History"
On Monday evening the European Parliament's Bureau unanimously took the decision to set up a "House of European History".
The Bureau decided on the following initial steps for the practical work of the setting-up phase:
 
Endorsed the conceptual basis for the establishment of the House of European History on the basis already outlined by the committee of experts  and upon which the Bureau had already held a discussion on 19 November.
The report titled "Conceptual Basis for a House of European History" was drawn up by an expert committee of nine high-ranking European historians and museum experts chaired by Professor Hans Walter Hütter, President of the Foundation of the House of the History of the Federal Republic of Germany.
The establishment of a political oversight committee.
The establishment of a high-ranking experts' advisory board.
The President will work closely with the Secretary General and the chairman of the committee of experts in order to make proposals to the Bureau for the composition of these two bodies.
The establishment of a small administrative start-up team responsible for defining administrative structures of the House, making contact with the relevant public authorities, defining the infrastructural needs of the House, providing assistance to a high-level Academic Committee, and preparing the first compilation of original artefacts.
 
The Bureau also unanimously took note of a letter from the Chairwoman of the European Parliament's Committee on Education and Culture, Katerina Batzeli, which presented the support of the Committee for the project and laid out a series of proposals for its realisation.
 
Parliament's President Hans-Gert Pöttering welcomed the decision of the Bureau and said: "The House of European History will bring Europe's history alive for everyone, but especially young people, and will thereby help promote an awareness of European identity."
 
When outlining the programme for his presidency on 13 February 2007, Parliament's President Hans-Gert Pöttering called for a House of European History to be set up.  Parliament's Bureau unanimously welcomed this suggestion on 10 December 2007 following a wide-ranging debate and convened the committee of experts, who agreed on their project by consensus on 15 September 2008.
 
EP Vice-President Miguel Angel Martínez Martínez followed the work of the experts' committee as the representative of Parliament's Bureau. The concept was presented to Parliament's Bureau on 19 November 2008 by the chairman of the committee of experts, Professor Hans Walter Hütter.


And it's going really well.

Renovating and fitting out the Eastman Building in Brussels, earmarked to house the museum, will cost 52.4 million euros, the document reveals, while once open to the public the project will cost around 13.5 million euros per year to run.

Meanwhile, total cost estimates for the museum have more than doubled to almost 156 million euros before work has begun, according to the Daily Telegraph.

Estimates of initial costs, which relate to leasing premises to house the museum, carrying out renovations and starting the exhibition, have risen to 129 million euros from an earlier prediction of 58 million, the newspaper calculates.

Estimated running costs of 13.5 million euros per year are around 80% higher than originally foreseen
,


Wonder if there's a gift shop?
As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

Online Muggins

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2011, 05:29:43 PM »

Was just thinking as I read it, that we ought to organise a coach trip, I hear the beer's a bit nice, should get a coach full.
Remember that it was an ordinary family that built the Ark but a bunch of professionals built the Titanic.

Online Outoftowner

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2011, 05:42:31 PM »

The chips are supposed to be good as well Muggins! Can't wait. Will we be able to use our bus passes?

Online Muggins

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2011, 05:51:24 PM »

Don't know Outer, were they funded by Europe?  Originally?
Remember that it was an ordinary family that built the Ark but a bunch of professionals built the Titanic.

Online Mart

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2011, 05:53:39 PM »

They're not chips. They are pommes frites and the buggers will slather them with mayonnaise if you're not quick.

Also, their sausages taste funny.

As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

Online Muggins

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2011, 05:59:35 PM »

Do they do Big Mac's? Because we could go and have beer and burgers and then off the the museum for the ...............
Remember that it was an ordinary family that built the Ark but a bunch of professionals built the Titanic.

Online Mart

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2011, 06:17:00 PM »

You're in luck:

http://www.mcdonalds.be/fr/index_FR.php?page=restaurants:restaurant_page&id=46

Their burgers are 100% horse obviously. Yup, My Little Pony in a bun. S'true, I read it on the Interweb.

Do you know, I don't think you are taking this quite as seriously as I might have hoped. I'm sat here working meself up to a high dudgeon including the white spit at the corners of the mouth and a throbby vein with supplementary tic and all you seem to care about is stuffin yer chops.

I was rather hoping for more in the way of a shared sense of indignity and a longing for days of empire.

I had a ham roll at Brussels railway station once.
As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

Online Muggins

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2011, 06:55:35 PM »

In the immortal words of some politician : Calm down dear, Calm down!

Do they do Big Mac's? Because we could go and have beer and burgers and then off the the museum for the ...............


Fill in the dot's!!!!!

Needed a little light relief before my head explodes.

Been trying for an hour to send a 20.5MB document out on a circular email - it's too flipping big.
Remember that it was an ordinary family that built the Ark but a bunch of professionals built the Titanic.

Offline Alex

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2011, 07:11:05 PM »

I'm incandescent with rage Mart, if it helps? :argh:

Online Mart

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2011, 07:53:22 PM »

That's better, in fact that's quite impressive, I was only aiming for self righteous indignation with a soupcon of xenophobia.

Also, I have to confess there is mayonnaise in my fridge, but I only have it with chips, never pommes rites.

Oooh no.

I'm making ketchup now. Chilli or no chilli, what do you reckon.
As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

Offline Alex

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Re: Hobby Horse out for another Canter, Showing Signs of Wear
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2011, 10:03:03 AM »

Oooh definitely with chilli....even if it's a bit "foreign" - tastes soooo good! :)