Author Topic: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?  (Read 108351 times)

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Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« on: September 14, 2011, 05:26:24 PM »
It appears we are nearing the end of the first episode, but not without some last minute changes.  At the last Cabinet Meeting, Coun Bluh spoke about papers being released on the 13th and a Special Cabinet Meeting taking place on the 20th - i note the Special Meeting will now take place on Thursday 22 September at 3.45pm.

It should be a good meeting. Here's hoping we will hear some good news but somehow i doubt that £400k plus interest will be winging its way back into Council coffers any time soon.

Des

Oh ye of little faith! The council cannot make the same mistake twice.  :coffee:



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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 05:39:23 PM »
http://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=5255&T=10&J=42

Offline Muggins

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2011, 05:59:37 PM »
Can we all go and watch, or should I start making Des's pot plant disguise and dusting off the tape recorder?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2011, 07:33:42 PM »
I will be there  O0

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2011, 10:11:14 PM »
Is this 4G a wimax by another name or 3GPP? By the way I believe the 4G auctions dont start until next year?  The 4G has only been operating in small scale experimental areas  Slough and Helsinki. Unless of course there is an expert out there that can demonstrate I have that wrong?


All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline moley

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2011, 10:35:21 PM »
Is this 4G a wimax by another name or 3GPP? By the way I believe the 4G auctions dont start until next year?  The 4G has only been operating in small scale experimental areas  Slough and Helsinki. Unless of course there is an expert out there that can demonstrate I have that wrong?

There are 2 different 4G technologies: Wimax and LTE.

LTE's the most obvious next generation successor to UMTS etc;

There are some large commercial LTE deployments in the US... at the moment they are mainly accessed via dongles rather than phones but I believe that there are now handsets available.  Not sure about anywhere else.

Spectrum auction here is next year.

Moley

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 10:38:53 PM »
Moley

Thanks I appreciate the technical input. So the Spectrum has not even been auctioned, does that mean that only the biggest companies will be able to enter the auction? Or should I say win the auction. What is the difference between LTE and LTE advanced?

Des Morgan
Where is our £400K is it paid back or is it a dividend if the new deal works and sells?
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline komadori

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2011, 10:51:32 PM »
http://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=5255&T=10&J=42

Hmm... you could be forgiven for thinking that paper was written by a cabinet member rather than a council officer.... Oh, no actually, I see it's written by Mr H Patel. Isn't he employed by Capita, one of the partners to this new venture?

I also notice that there's no indication as to whether we the council is going to have to cough up yet more of our their money for this new venture.
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Offline moley

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2011, 11:03:41 PM »
Moley

Thanks I appreciate the technical input. So the Spectrum has not even been auctioned, does that mean that only the biggest companies will be able to enter the auction? Or should I say win the auction. What is the difference between LTE and LTE advanced?



http://www.totaltele.com/view.aspx?ID=467481

gives some background on the current state of play - looks like Ofcom are wading through submissions from a consultation.

I'm guessing that the government might be keen to make as much money as possible from any auction given the current state of the nation's finances...

Moley

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 11:10:36 PM »
Moley

Thank you appreciated.
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Chris Watts

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2011, 11:42:52 PM »
Is it just me or does this cabinet agenda item say that the £400k is lost, there was no cheque in the post in Jan 2011, aQovia has been kicked into touch in favour of Capita, there is no deal on the table, Digital City will be closed down and also the £400k is lost.

The cabinet agenda item also tries to say that the mystery partner are only interested in partnering due to the the councils commitment shown in investing in Highworth. Without Highworth they would not have been interested. I would argue that this mystery company could be interested in partnering with SBC as they know they have SBC over a political barrel and SBC are easily seen off by shrewd business people.  :-X

Oh yeah, did I say also that the £400k is lost. :-\
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Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 11:45:29 PM »
Is it just me or does this cabinet agenda item say that the £400k is lost, there was no cheque in the post in Jan 2011, aQovia has been kicked into touch in favour of Capita, there is no deal on the table, Digital City will be closed down and also the £400k is lost.

The cabinet agenda item also tries to say that the mystery partner are only interested in partnering due to the the councils commitment shown in investing in Highworth. Without Highworth they would not have been interested. I would argue that this mystery company could be interested in partnering with SBC as they know they have SBC over a political barrel and SBC are easily seen off by shrewd business people.  :-X

Oh yeah, did I say also that the £400k is lost. :-\

Yes you did and it is as Rod admitted on the radio its unlikely it will be recovered, but hey ho the council will have a dividend, if targets are reached etc etc yawn. It all sounds to good to be true, now where have I heard that about wifi before?
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Chris Watts

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 11:59:34 PM »
I do not see the "too good to be true" bit. There is no deal, no money and no credibility. They got naffink.

It will be interesting to see what they do about social inclusion. I doubt if the daily 2 hours will be on the table as that was always a business plan killer that would need public money to surmount. If I was a betting man I would put money on 15 mins free if at all if the negotiations get that far.
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Offline komadori

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2011, 12:03:09 AM »
Is it just me or does this cabinet agenda item say that the £400k is lost, there was no cheque in the post in Jan 2011, aQovia has been kicked into touch in favour of Capita, there is no deal on the table, Digital City will be closed down and also the £400k is lost.

The cabinet agenda item also tries to say that the mystery partner are only interested in partnering due to the the councils commitment shown in investing in Highworth. Without Highworth they would not have been interested. I would argue that this mystery company could be interested in partnering with SBC as they know they have SBC over a political barrel and SBC are easily seen off by shrewd business people.  :-X

Oh yeah, did I say also that the £400k is lost. :-\

 :agreed: That was my interpretation too. The papers try to make out that that investment was a success. How is a return of £10.5k a success when within a few months from now, under the loan agreement with Digital City (UK) Ltd, the full £450k should have been repaid?
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Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2011, 12:08:40 AM »
Is it just me or does this cabinet agenda item say that the £400k is lost, there was no cheque in the post in Jan 2011, aQovia has been kicked into touch in favour of Capita, there is no deal on the table, Digital City will be closed down and also the £400k is lost.

The cabinet agenda item also tries to say that the mystery partner are only interested in partnering due to the the councils commitment shown in investing in Highworth. Without Highworth they would not have been interested. I would argue that this mystery company could be interested in partnering with SBC as they know they have SBC over a political barrel and SBC are easily seen off by shrewd business people.  :-X

Oh yeah, did I say also that the £400k is lost. :-\

 :agreed: That was my interpretation too. The papers try to make out that that investment was a success. How is a return of £10.5k a success when within a few months from now, under the loan agreement with Digital City (UK) Ltd, the full £450k should have been repaid?


If I am not mistaken this looks like an attempt at rewriting wifi history? BTW a thought provoking  blog post.
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Offline Des Morgan

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2011, 08:43:42 AM »
Once again strong on words - short on detail, heavy on repetition and lacking in clarity. It also raises 'old' questions and some new ones.

Let's deal with the 'boasting' first. It is laughable that SBC can honestly claim that the loan of £400k proved advantageous in that they received £10.5 from DC as opposed to £6.9k if they had obtained interest at the Council's 'average rate of return'  We all know that SBC could have obtained more than 3.5% on £400k in the period they are talking about.

As for 'The new investor has made clear that the proposal would not have been offered without the Council's committment to the Highworth pilot' -let's treat that with the contempt it deserves.  In the March 2010 meeting it was made clear that DC had failed to attract any investment and that the second tranche loan of £250k would demonstrate SBC's committment and attract investors - it's just taken 18 months and the demise of DC to achieve this

What about 'It is the Council's intention to keep the current Highworth network running and operational' - as SBC doesn't own DC or the network etc it follwos they can't do anything to keep it running and operational - that's leaving aside the fact that it's not operational at present.

This made me laugh - 'In the meduium term SBC will need to make a decision on how best to deploy these assets (the Highworth Wi-Fi repeaters) based on any investment need to update them'

What a hope - 'The Council's intention will be to secure an orderly extraction of our interests fro Digital City' - what interests? According to Coun Bluh we have only ever been an investor

I am sure others would be happy to comment on the claim that 'potential insolvency would have reduced the value of the assets that could be extracted' - as i understand it that's not always a bad thing, in he case of DC the value of the 60 repeaters is minimal

Read the report carefully and you wil see that there is no promise of success or of the Council ever seeing £400k plus.  The words used are 'likely to be repaid'  and SBC has the 'potential' to receive significant return'

I am also bound to ask - what does Capita bring to the table - or is Mr Patel keeping his career options open


Offline Weebleman

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2011, 08:45:10 AM »
This is the first time I've seen Highworth described as a "pilot". I've always interpreted this term to mean a test installation to see if something works, or is viable. My memory recalls Highworth as being described as the first phase to bourough-wide coverage. Surely Rikki must have proved to this bunch of clowns that the system was viable before they handed over their our hard earned cash.

Offline Weebleman

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2011, 08:49:58 AM »
Once again strong on words - short on detail, heavy on repetition and lacking in clarity. It also raises 'old' questions and some new ones.

Let's deal with the 'boasting' first. It is laughable that SBC can honestly claim that the loan of £400k proved advantageous in that they received £10.5 from DC as opposed to £6.9k if they had obtained interest at the Council's 'average rate of return'  We all know that SBC could have obtained more than 3.5% on £400k in the period they are talking about.

As for 'The new investor has made clear that the proposal would not have been offered without the Council's committment to the Highworth pilot' -let's treat that with the contempt it deserves.  In the March 2010 meeting it was made clear that DC had failed to attract any investment and that the second tranche loan of £250k would demonstrate SBC's committment and attract investors - it's just taken 18 months and the demise of DC to achieve this

What about 'It is the Council's intention to keep the current Highworth network running and operational' - as SBC doesn't own DC or the network etc it follwos they can't do anything to keep it running and operational - that's leaving aside the fact that it's not operational at present.

This made me laugh - 'In the meduium term SBC will need to make a decision on how best to deploy these assets (the Highworth Wi-Fi repeaters) based on any investment need to update them'

What a hope - 'The Council's intention will be to secure an orderly extraction of our interests fro Digital City' - what interests? According to Coun Bluh we have only ever been an investor

I am sure others would be happy to comment on the claim that 'potential insolvency would have reduced the value of the assets that could be extracted' - as i understand it that's not always a bad thing, in he case of DC the value of the 60 repeaters is minimal

Read the report carefully and you wil see that there is no promise of success or of the Council ever seeing £400k plus.  The words used are 'likely to be repaid'  and SBC has the 'potential' to receive significant return'

I am also bound to ask - what does Capita bring to the table - or is Mr Patel keeping his career options open

Very good post Des.  :clap:  :clap:

Offline Chris Watts

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2011, 09:15:49 AM »
I do not see the "too good to be true" bit. There is no deal, no money and no credibility. They got naffink.

It will be interesting to see what they do about social inclusion. I doubt if the daily 2 hours will be on the table as that was always a business plan killer that would need public money to surmount. If I was a betting man I would put money on 15 mins free if at all if the negotiations get that far.

It seems I will have to eat my words on my comments on the social inclusion element as Rod has stated that there will be

NO FREE WIFI

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9251317.__3m_scheme_will_speed_up_internet/

Quote from: adver
"But unlike the plan put forward by Digital City, the wireless internet access will not be free for residents."
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Offline komadori

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Re: Has The First Chapter Of New Wifi 2 Deal Been Written?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2011, 09:31:52 AM »

http://www.totaltele.com/view.aspx?ID=467481

gives some background on the current state of play - looks like Ofcom are wading through submissions from a consultation.

I'm guessing that the government might be keen to make as much money as possible from any auction given the current state of the nation's finances...

To pick up on this point. The technology being proposed is one using wavelengths not yet made available by the regulator. So this is a proposal to enter negotiations with a company that cannot yet know whether it obtain a license in an auction yet to take place.

It seems I will have to eat my words on my comments on the social inclusion element as Rod has stated that there will be

NO FREE WIFI

So for the tax-payers of Swindon, in what way would it be distinguishable from the 4G services that any of the national networks might provide?
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