Author Topic: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow  (Read 4646 times)

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Offline the gorgon

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Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« on: September 07, 2011, 06:59:32 PM »
According to BBC Points West news this evening Wiltshire Council are planning on making Chief Executive Andrew Kerr (and one other management type I think) redundant! 

Andrew Kerr apparently earns c. £190,000 a year, yes more than Gavin Jones.

If SBC decide to implement a similar cut and save us £162,000 I doubt there will be many protesters (apart from the Jones family).

Can't find anything on the internet about this but as soon as it becomes available on iPlayer I'll post the link.



Offline itspavagain

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 07:52:39 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-14829346

It doesn't say who is going to be ultimately responsible for running the council.

Surely they cannot replace the chief executive if they let this guy go, as you are making the role, not the person redundant?

Offline bobwright

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2011, 01:31:42 AM »
I personally think this is a mistake, the officers on a council need a strong independent senior manager, no matter what the title is. There is a danger of an unhealthy council if the independence of officers is affected by the lack of independent leadership.

I believe the issue is about pay and what a role is worth. I support the principle of a fair days pay for a fair days work. It is clear many feel that some are overpaid however they took the pay that was offered. I don't think sharing a Chief Executive is correct either if the role has emerged from sufficient workload demand.

The public have been drawn into vilifying Civil Servants through the government’s inability to recover losses from investment bankers. I am not saying that services and structures should not be looked at but treating Civil Servants as scapegoats affects more than titles. It affects real people with real families living and purchasing in the local economy. I do not think there should be protection but I do think a sense of perspective is required. In some areas of the country they no longer have the support mechanisms in place for those in need or if they do they can be overstretched due to cuts.

The minimum flat effective management structure comprises of three levels however there is still a head/leader. Restructuring can reduce costs but won't work unless all who remain are moving in the same direction. Without a strong independent leader directing and enabling a co-operative culture to produce the best it can with the least resources services will suffer.

Offline Bassettina

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 08:31:22 AM »
since Wiltshire CC was formed, there have been selective cuts throughout the new organisation. a lot of small local centres have been amalgamated (although there's a plan to create local campuses). they've also stripped out many senior manager posts. to give credit, the impact on local areas has been fairly minimal.

if the council is shrinking, it makes sense for the ce's post to be revised - Wiltshire CC no longer needs a £190,000 ce. it may instead need a more community focuses £120,000 ce.

Offline the gorgon

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 10:11:00 AM »
Bob I think the problem is that someone somewhere at somepoint has forgotten about the Service aspect of Civil Service when it comes to the top jobs.

I don't think you can just apply private sector management salaries to the public sector (which is the big problem) as the funding mechanisms are different.  Local government funding comes from taxation of one sort or another and the public has to pay.  The management more or less just manage how the money is spent.

The private sector is different, income (turnover) isn't guaranteed. Management makes decisions that can make or break a company (remember Gerald Ratner?) because people can go elsewhere for their goods or services. 

According to figures I've seen presented by UNISON over 50% of local government employees earn less than 10% of what Gavin Jones earns (some will earn in a year what he does in month).  I think that's a massive disparity, one that might be acceptable in the private sector where the management can at least claim that decisions they've made have increased sales by 5% or increased turnover by 20%. 

It's a shame the civil service has been vilified but it's the fat cats at the top who've caused this with their "because I'm worth it" attitude to salaries and much like the bankers fail to see why there might be a problem.


Offline DavidPayne

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 11:24:07 AM »
According to figures I've seen presented by UNISON over 50% of local government employees earn less than 10% of what Gavin Jones earns (some will earn in a year what he does in month).  I think that's a massive disparity, one that might be acceptable in the private sector where the management can at least claim that decisions they've made have increased sales by 5% or increased turnover by 20%. 

It's a shame the civil service has been vilified but it's the fat cats at the top who've caused this with their "because I'm worth it" attitude to salaries and much like the bankers fail to see why there might be a problem.

Exactly.

£200K salaries are an absolute insult, in order to 1. everyone constrained to cope on minimum wage and 2. all local tax payers.

And while these hugely overpaid executives are ripping the security from family lives with lay-offs, has there been any hint that they might volunteer a proportionate reduction in their own remunerations, amounts of money that it would be difficult to spend without deliberately throwing it away?

Here's a gauntlet - I will accept the role of c.e.o. of Swindon Borough Council or any other for no pay. If a consensus appraisal after six months says that I can do it (at least) as well as my predecessor, I will accept half his exit salary to continue.

Offline bobwright

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2011, 11:59:07 AM »
Gorgon - fair comment, I have previously stated unless the culture is right it will be difficult to deliver the services aspired too.
I don't support disparity I do support fair reward.

Offline Mart

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2011, 04:44:01 PM »
Here's a gauntlet - I will accept the role of c.e.o. of Swindon Borough Council or any other for no pay. If a consensus appraisal after six months says that I can do it (at least) as well as my predecessor, I will accept half his exit salary to continue.

I'd do it for quarter pay, otherwise same deal.

I guarantee my bin would be emptied.

I'm no genius, but perhaps the problem is that there is a perception that genius is needed. I think any reasonably competent person could do a decent job, but would need rotating out at the first sign they are 'going native'.

Mr Payne can have first dibs and I've no doubt he'd pass his appraisal.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline MsD Meanor

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2011, 05:15:47 PM »
Agreed here too. No reason on earth why taxes should fund super-inflated salaries- ( I don't believe they should exist  in the private sector either for that matter).

Inequality causes major and negative  behaviour - from those with and those without. :agreed:


Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2011, 11:50:32 PM »
Here's a gauntlet - I will accept the role of c.e.o. of Swindon Borough Council or any other for no pay. If a consensus appraisal after six months says that I can do it (at least) as well as my predecessor, I will accept half his exit salary to continue.

Now there is a offer that should not be refused on economic grounds alone.

Question - do we actually need as well as can we actually afford a highly paid CE and a highly paid Deputy CE?
All my posts are my own opinion and do not represent any political organization or group

Got Signal

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2011, 07:32:46 AM »
 Wiltshire Council is three times the size of Swindon and its budget 5 times that of Swindon if Swindon followed its example.  it could probably get the Primeminister to do the job for less. From what is being reported in the medja another Senior at Wilts is to be deleted, is that the deputy? Two fat cats less at Wilts. We have  to admire Jane Scott OBE for taking the initiative and being the first leader ever to start reshaping council services from the top. In my book  that has got to be worth a Knighthood!

Offline the gorgon

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2011, 08:13:28 AM »
Wiltshire Council is three times the size of Swindon and its budget 5 times that of Swindon if Swindon followed its example.  it could probably get the Primeminister to do the job for less. From what is being reported in the medja another Senior at Wilts is to be deleted, is that the deputy? Two fat cats less at Wilts. We have  to admire Jane Scott OBE for taking the initiative and being the first leader ever to start reshaping council services from the top. In my book  that has got to be worth a Knighthood!

Ah yes the PM, his salary is £142,000.  Didn't realise that running SBC was such an important job that the salary had to be greater than that paid to Mr Cameron!  >:D

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2011, 09:56:59 AM »
Ah yes the PM, his salary is £142,000.  Didn't realise that running SBC was such an important job that the salary had to be greater than that paid to Mr Cameron!  >:D

Ah yes but wasn't the CHief Executive's Salary more to do with levels set by Sir Mike Pitt when he was CE?  His policies had far reaching consequences across the executive in terms of salaries, just look at the increase of and payment to 'Directors'.

and Nick Martin whilst enjoying himself at a post election party said to me he could have secured GJ's services for £40k less, but it was taken out of his hands.  So much for treating public service employees the same as in the private sector because anyone who could have delivered that type of promise would have received a bonus!!

This along with autocratic leadership says so much about what is wrong in Local Government does it not?

As Rod Bluh has said when he sought to justify the 'investment' in Digital City we cannot afford services as we know them.

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Offline DavidPayne

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Re: Wiltshire Council cut that SBC could borrow
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2011, 11:08:17 AM »

I'm no genius, but perhaps the problem is that there is a perception that genius is needed. I think any reasonably competent person could do a decent job, but would need rotating out at the first sign they are 'going native'.

On the Button Mart!