Topic: Community engagement

[Russell Holland]

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Mart - thank you for your suggestions which I have noted.

I am glad that we have at least some agreement on "statements that included key phrases like 'frontline feedback',  'grassroots grants project', Community asset transfer, strategic aspect, embedded into the commissioning process , strategically focused, democratic oversight, Officers, community assets, good intentioned policy"

[Richard Beale]

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Richard (Beale) One Swindon and Stronger Together is at the very beginning.  It is going to take time to develop I welcome the comments.  I do not understand the points you are making about staff.  Councils (like any other organisation) when they have financial pressures may have to have some redundancies.  I am sorry for the individuals whose lives are effected by this, but I am not going to apologise for making decisions which have to be made in the long term interest of the Borough. 

The choice is clear - we know there are going to be less resources available we can make savings or simply carry on as we are and see how high we can raise Council tax.

I can only keep repeating that One Swindon and Stronger Together were agreed by all 3 political parties - the 3 party leaders all signed the Stronger Together report.  If you have some specific recommendations please make them.

You can criticise the pace of change in the Town Centre as much as you like. We have an award winning central library and the manager of the Brunel recently won a national award because of the success in the Brunel and he specifically came to Cabinet and commended the Council for its car parking strategy.  We have a new Aldi about to open and there are other works going on in the Town Centre.  If just want to ignore all the good points and make emotive comments that Swindon is like Tripoli go ahead.  I am always going to promote the good work that is going on.

The basis of my gripe on this thread isn't with cuts, impending redundancies or any particular political party, its motives or ideology, it is with the lack of clear communication between the council, their staff and the public at large.

It is also, just a little bit, with the modern management speak that plagued SBC when I worked there.

Please stop dragging this back to being a political issue, it isn't. Point scoring only confirms what some already think, that you and your fellow cabinet members are without any actual answers.

Admittedly the Gadaffi comment was a cheap easy jibe (I think I'm allowed one ) , but come on, you don't really mean to say that the regeneration is full steam ahead, based on one award? I would expect the library to be good, we paid enough for it, I just hope that having such a great facility in town, means we can keep outlying libraries open.

Good to hear that the Brunel's manager has won an award he deserved it, having worked closely with him on a few projects I know what a good ambassador for SBC he is. Surely that's down to his proffesionalism, drive and enthusiasm, rather than an example of a successful town wide regeneration that is showing results?

There was more, but Mart pretty much beat me to it. So I can't be asked to post it no point in repetion.

Well put Mart.

[Mart]

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Russ, can I call you Russ? Mebbe's Dutch, no, you're right that's a bit familiar.

Emboldened by your endorsement of my move to remove the phrasing that has wasted more bloody printer ink than I did when I pressed print for a document when I meant selection, that's another story, I couldn't help noticing you'd made a blunder when you copied and pasted, fat fingers I expect, normally the case.

You pasted:

statements that included key phrases like 'frontline feedback',  'grassroots grants project', Community asset transfer, strategic aspect, embedded into the commissioning process , strategically focused, democratic oversight, Officers, community assets, good intentioned policy"

You missed:

empower, Hunt, Perkins, Bluh, vibrate, vision and regeneration.

Would this mean this mean that you thoroughly endorse the stewardship of Hunt, Perkins and Bluh and that this endorsement is based on an unassailable record of fiscal acumen, 'a proven track record of project delivery' and the fact that two of them could seriously hamper your chances of advancement if you stepped out of line?

Cos in my limited recall their track record would give Gordnon Broon a run for his our money relatively speaking.

Tell me it's pudgy digits.

[Got Signal]

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Mart

You forgot Whalebridge, the old paragon laundry, the station forecourt,  the Locarno, all that lovely 106money whatever that is? A waste to energy plant, a vikki  Pollard light switch off/on/off.. Shut up!

No voluntary grants for youth provision, no connexions. Is it any wonder young people feel bereft of belonging? Bus routes cut back and the old college standing there like some giant V sign, reminding us all that it survived 5 Bluh hunting seasons.

[Russell Holland]

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Mart - Russ is fine.  I have posted comments on wi-fi on another thread and I have made comments about my colleagues also on that thread.  Suffice it to say that all my colleagues have my full support. I also said Rikki Hunt was right to resign.

Richard, in respect of where we are now - there is agreement around the One Swindon and Stronger Together agenda.  I accept there is scepticism because of what has gone on in the past and I accept that there is criticisms about some of the decisions of the administration but what I don't understand is that I feel from some of the posts that there is this massive negativity.  I don't get it.  I know there are going to be political disagreements but I don't get the negativity.  Yes I accept that there are legitimate concerns about some things and of course people are going to feel upset about some decisions, but I do feel there is an underlying pessimism sometimes.

One Swindon is about people liking where they live, improving the economy and helping people in need by working with partner organisations the voluntary and business sector and promoting decision making by individuals, families and communities.  I think this is positive.  Is it going to be easy?  No - the economic situation and feelings of disappointment make it difficult.  I am not just going to give up on trying to do better.  I think we have potential here and I want to work on it.  To me the best thing about One Swindon is that there is a philosophical commitment to involve people more, to delegate and to empower.  If you have suggestions on how we can do this - I welcome them.  If you want to just dwell on the negative - fine with me - have your say take the occasional cheap shot if you like - but that is not for me. 

[Des Morgan]

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Hi Russell not sure why you feel my comments and observations should be labelled as criticisms.  I made some observations including one which made it clear that One Swindon is the child of SSP is spawned of the same stock, includes the same partners and is run by the same people.

My one criticism was as follows "But One Swindon isn't really about what's good for you and me, no it's about what's good for the organisations purporting to serve you and me"

I stand by that comment, but also recognise that the two issues are not neccessarily incompatible. In that if the organisations benefit then ultimately and hopefully, so will the residents.  I am also on record as being a supporter of the concept of One Swindon in terms of the good that can come out of people working together. My prime concern which i have made clear in private conversations with your colleagues and public forums such as Cabinet and Scrutiny, is that for One Swindon to be truly a life changing experience it needs to embrace the people it claims to 'want to be involved ' - the public.

Having another talking shop between publicly funded groups is all well and good - I am sure they love the idea of belonging to yet another cosy group and meeting to discuss 'thorny issues' before scheduling the date for the next meeting.  The CPCP programme has not been agreat success and One Swindon  can only be successful if it has the support of the people of Swindon

[Mart]

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Russ

Best add philosophical commitment to the list.

Nothing phiosphical about commitment.

The negativity is fed on a continuous diet of the same people, doing the same things, in the same way, for the same reasons and only the banner changes, the accompanying blurb has the same old trite phrases and it's all just so much porridge.

A man is a Director of a company. He is positioned to influence the allocation of public funds into that company because he is an elected representative to the body that has that money. He uses that influence after being instrumental in changing the agreed rules for obtaining that funding. said company then goes tits up having singularly failed in it's objectives, the primary recipient of public funds, having been lauded as visionary ,buggers off up a mountain, well a little way up a mountain, then comes back and announces he's potless. Our Director announces he never saw that coming.

No out in the normal world you'd have a bit of a drains up.

In your world of Council which is, and will forever be, seperate from ours the Director then crops up and announces he's spunked £15m on a car park we don't evidently need. Given his track record I'm expecting one of those car covers you see advertised in the Sunday supplements.

Until you grasp that this kind of behaviour causes lasting offence then this latest rebranding execise is doomed to failure.

[Tea Boy]

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One Swindon is about people liking where they live, improving the economy and helping people in need by working with partner organisations the voluntary and business sector and promoting decision making by individuals, families and communities.  I think this is positive.  Is it going to be easy?  No - the economic situation and feelings of disappointment make it difficult.  I am not just going to give up on trying to do better.  I think we have potential here and I want to work on it.  To me the best thing about One Swindon is that there is a philosophical commitment to involve people more, to delegate and to empower.  If you have suggestions on how we can do this - I welcome them.  If you want to just dwell on the negative - fine with me - have your say take the occasional cheap shot if you like - but that is not for me.

Its not about how the council will afford to empty the bins then? 

Have been watching your input with some interest, great to see a cabinet councillor fighting his corner, putting his arguments forward.

Problem is although Rich's comment wasn't constructive it describes how our town centre is percieved. As for cheap shot... No different to the same old party rhetoric repeated by yourself .... 13 years of labour blah blah blah.

The negativity you feel is borne out of the council's previous performance both past and present. As it seems business as usual from the same usual suspects I'm afraid that you find a lot of sceptism on this forum and elsewhere.

[Russell Holland]

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Des - I disagree with your view about what One Swindon is about.  I think that is a matter of perception so I don't think we will get very far discussing that point.  If you have suggestions about good ways of involving people then let me know.

Mart - I have expressed views on wi-fi elsewhere. 

Tea-Boy - I have attempted, admittedly with varying degrees of success, to avoid the typical party political arguments but if party attacks are made then I am going to point certain things out.

If people want to be sceptical fine.  I don't mind.  I am going to do my best to be positive about One Swindon and involve people in improving the town.  If people would rather constantly dwell on the past or become obsessed on where there have been problems, that's fine with me.  I will keep trying all the same.  Of course I could just give up and sit and diagnose in ever increasing detail problems of the past as a reason not to bother trying again in the future, but that is not for me.  I believe in Swindon and I believe we can do better through One Swindon.

Out of interest - I would be interested to know if any posters are school governors or involved in voluntary or community activity at the moment?

[bobwright]

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Russell - detailed below is a set of answers I gave in response to questions on 'One Swindon'. You can see it is generally  supportive however it also illustrates my misgivings.
What is your experience of One Swindon?
Not good, it has been a poor delivery of a vision which has been hard for people to conceive. There has been a failure to show the relationship between the change in the organisation and delivery of purpose. It is hard for people to conceive a shared purpose if each partner has a different objective which can work against or not fit the other. Funnily enough this feels like a backward step heading towards the old municipal councils.
Do you feel you’ve had enough information to help you communicate with residents around One Swindon?
No
How can we support you and your residents to feel more connected to One Swindon?
Provide a simple explanation of what One Swindon is and what it is meant to do. Why has it been adopted by the Administration over alternative ways of delivery.
How would you like to be kept up to date with developments in One Swindon?
Is this question referring to the creation, delivery, performance of One Swindon? On one level I think this question misses completely the point of One Swindon. It should not be seen as an isolated set of actions but as a way of doing things. I would like to compare things but what against? Will there be standards or past performance to compare against? Will there be growing pains and wait and see elapses? The vagueness that has surrounded Connecting People/Places and Clusters appears to have been compounded in this delivery.
Would you like to see more information on-line?
I am not looking for propaganda or aspirations, I am looking for behaviour which could have only come from the change in the way we do things.
As we move into delivery of One Swindon outcomes – do you feel you know enough about the One Swindon partners? No, I have just started to get to know the Police and Fire services.
Do you think you might benefit from a ‘placement’ or a ‘visit’ to help your understanding?
At some point I think this will be useful. I think the problem is no one seems to understand what One Swindon is so how can understanding be related. I am sure there will be allsorts of presentations which could have happened without One Swindon I want to see something that could only happen because of 'One Swindon'

[Alex]

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I think many of us were or are involved with either schools or voluntary groups- over many years. I certainly am and was. Well, until the funding stopped and the Well Woman Centre was closed, but still am involved with Artsite and other initiatives which people have come together to create.

[Russell Holland]

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Bob - thank you for the answers.  I have no issues with you making suggestions about how the implementation of One Swindon needs to develop.  I have asked Officers to contact all backbenchers individually because I want that feedback.

However, I do find some of your comments surprising given that all 3 political parties have signed up to One Swindon and Stronger Together.  As I say, questioning the implementation is fine but questioning some of the underlying rationale of the policy does strike me as strange.

Alex - thank you very much.

[Muggins]

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Russell: Out of interest - I would be interested to know if any posters are school governors or involved in voluntary or community activity at the moment

I think it's fairly obvious I am, seeing as how I use nearly as much of the jargon as anyone in SBC. In fact I must be brief, Saturday mornings are sacred to volunteering to one activity, probably to be instersperced this morning by signing cheques and a grant application for another (sometimes things get really busy!)  You can catch us at Penhill Orchard (next to Seven Fields School) if you want to see a grassroots group in action!  Tea-up about 11.45am weather permitting.  Bring a bag, there will be windfalls.

I had one bash, at one meeting of being a school governor, some years ago, it was appalling and put me off for life.  Basically if the governors get treated like children I suspect that why people are not queuing up. 

I'm not avoiding a meeting, holidays nearly over!  In fact hopefull we will meet anyway at the nest SSP OMG.

Mart - it's me that keeps on about Community Asset Transfer/policy and afterwards I wondered why I bothered to put that, because with a bit of common sense on both sides we could go straight for those leases without one.  The draft policy we saw, (was that really 3 years ago?) would have made it impossible for us to have one anyway.

[Russell Holland]

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Muggins - many thanks.  Is this activity at Penhill Orchard happening today?  I have Councillor's surgery but could probably leave a bit early?

[Bassettina]

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Out of interest - I would be interested to know if any posters are school governors or involved in voluntary or community activity at the moment?

yes, I volunteer weekly with a couple of local charities. i'm not sure (yet) if One Swindon will help me do this, encourage me to volunteer more, or just brand my volunteering as a political iniative (one swindon/big society).

volunteering is vital for keeping communities together, giving something back, loving where you live. it's a shame the the volunteering drive has coincided with the economic downturn and govt cuts. firstly, at the end of a 48 hr working week, some people understandably don't have the time or energy to go out and run a community football club. the rising prices of bus fares, etc, do preventa  lot of people travelling easily. secondly, for those who have volunteered for a long time, having 'big society' or 'one swindon' branding on what they do isn't great - you volunteer because you care about a cause, not because you want to make a political statement on the role of local government. 3rdly, there's so much cynicism towards one swindon from the voluntary sector, particularly those hitting the wall due to withdrawal of grants.


however, i did like the fact that mr buckland volunteered. i thought that showed him 'living his values', to use a naff phrase.

[Tobes]

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Russell, I'm involved with the Back Garden community forum, Artsite and I'm chairman of board of trustees for a local youth charity (all comments here are my own and do not represent the views of any of these groups).

Your continued engagement here in the face of some criticism ought to be really applauded. I hope it gives you a proper understanding of the way ordinary people (ie. those outside the council chamber) really perceived things. Ignoring the partisan elements for a minute, you've also got plenty of 'ordinary' posters on TS who are both engaged with the local community and who actively try to make a difference. It ought to be a mine of useful opinion sounding opportunities.

To me, given the huge scope of influence One Swindon claims, it looks like a selection of the usual suspects calling the shots. Until you change the faces at the top who've been responsible for doing things as they are done today and were done yesterday, I don't think anyone will believe that anything is going to change tomorrow.  Normal Swindon service (or lack of) will be resumed, but under a new brand. If you want more 'ordinary' swindon people to help paper the funding cracks, you're going to have to be brutally honest and then you're going to have to empower and listen to them. As soon as any of them are made to feel like the minions of someone with a politically motivated vibrant vision, they will be lost to you forever.

I think your party are in danger of making some potentially fatal mistakes. The finances of this country are stuffed. Many people voted conservative because they could clearly see that the profligacy of Labour exacerbated the problem (though they weren't to blamer for the economic triggers any more than anyone else) . Your party at a national level received the votes it did because many felt that we needed a bit of bitter medicine to avoid a much worse future. (The irony at a local level is the way the party here seems to have presided over so many questionable financial projects. )

I like the idea of Big Society. I like the idea of challenging people who whinge about things to stop blaming the mythical 'them' (as in 'why don't THEY sort out the rowdy youths at the bottom of the road' etc) to go and do something for their own communities. I hated the infantalisation of the populace under a party which thought the state should do everything. But you and your party HAVE to be honest about what is being done and why: there is far less money coming from central govt. Its either Big Society or NOTHING in some cases. Its a other bitter pill, but lets start being realistic about it.

Lets also start being realistic by cutting out certain elements of the decision making process who carry no credibility with anyone.

(PS,  Mart, may I worship you please? You've had me crying with laughter)

[Russell Holland]

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Bassetina and Tobes thank you very much.  I think I agree with the spirit of almost everything you both said.

We are very much at the start of the One Swindon process so to date a lot of the work has been on working with partner organisations around a shared vision.  The next big phase is the Stronger Together reorganisation.  After that there is going to be working out the community governance elements.  So that is the broad picture.

So in terms of how the voluntary sector and people would like to be involved now - any suggestions?

Particularly interested to get views on the voluntary sector aspect, if anyone would like to meet I am happy to do so.

[Muggins]

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Well, you could knock me down with a feather - thank you Russell for tunring up at the Orchard this morning, (well, afternoon really) and thanks for staying for a chat, you must come back for the guided tour around the LNR.

[Mart]

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(PS,  Mart, may I worship you please? You've had me crying with laughter)

Yeah, my wife does that, reasonably sure it's laughter, touch and go on the worship front though.

I don't volunteer for anything, I find by the end of the working week I am bolloxed and it's as much as I can do to keep on top of the allotment, get the side panel back on the bath now I've fixed the seal, stay on top of the garden, think some more about decorating the living room and kitchen, eat, sleep and try and get my sodding back sorted out so people will stop calling me Quasimodo. We're onto acupuncture now but apparently I'm a low reactor with a high pain threshold, which on the one hand proves I'm a proper man, but on the other means the NHS is confident I can wait just an ickle bit more.

I think Tobes is right (that's one for the diary).

First problem is the name, political types do have a habit of coming up with some right soppy names, I think it stems from the aversion to every day language, I'm not saying you should have called it Feckin Swindon, but One Swindon, and that's on top of C3PO and Touching Communities in Strange Ways, I mean it's a bit, well, limp. I bet the meeting where it was named was a cracker of a meeting when they dreamt that one up, wall covered with Post It notes, flip charts and all manner of high jinks.


Then there are the movers and shakers, I mean think about what might have caused some of Swindon's residents some mental chafing over the last 18 months, then consider the identities of those responsible for shovelling the sand into the crotch of my pants of life and yup, the usual suspects are all there.

And that's your problem.

Until you have a bit of a cull you are starting any initiative, no matter how worthy, from a position of distinct disadvantage. People look at the list, yawn, and think 'Here we go again', or in my case, 'There you go again'.

[Muggins]

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Mart, "I bet the meeting where it was named was a cracker of a meeting when they dreamt that one up, wall covered with Post It notes, flip charts and all manner of * high jinks" 

 

And in that one sentence Mart, you give yourself away, only someone who has been to one of those meetings would know how it goes.

* there might well have been a 'every table draw a diagram' too.

Only with CPCP and the clusteres were were assured that two people thought that up and were not for moving.