Author Topic: Trying to Understand the Riots - indymedia website and any Swindon relevant comments  (Read 16305 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
 
Kalamakooya has spoken !

Four Feather Falls was one of Gerry Andersons worst exports  :)

Anyway, ignoring your sarcasm again, let's nip back to this:


Boothill has previously claimed:

Again ...the strange thing is that in all this public insurrection (looting n rioting) there seems to be only ONE public building in each town and city that has apparently been  unattacked and left undamaged ....... Their Local Social Social Security Office...hmmmmm   wonder why that could be ?  (not)


To which I'd responded and enquired:

Given the number of public buildings that exist in cities, towns and civic administrative areas, I have considerable difficulty accepting that statement as being accurate.

Were you being humorous or can you supply links to sources which confirm the statement?


Which Boothill answered with:


Oh great one , somehow I thought you would ..but perhaps I'm a LIAR ....what say ??


Is Boothill now able to confirm that his statement is factually accurate or willing to admit it was just a bit of fanciful thinking?   

Personally speaking I think comments like Boothills original one have the potential to encourage prejudice unfairly, indeed, perhaps that is intentional.  If the authors aren't willing to discuss/explain/defend what they say then my view tends towards believing that the riots have given them an opportunity to display simple vexatiousness towards groups they dislike, fear or scorn, e.g the unemployed, the young and immigrants....and they're not really interested in open discussion about the underlying reasons/causes of the riots.

His responses so far have done nothing to persuade me otherwise.






Offline Muggins

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8535
"This one from a British expatriot living in Canada for the last 50 (?) years "

And his opinion should count for why?????

He's been out of the country for 50 years. Loved it so much he's never come back.  Obviously feeling righteous about having left.

When he left Teddy Boys were tearing up cinema seats, yet at that time there were plenty of jobs and for unqualified people - I should know I had a choice two (Office jobs) to go to on the day I left school.
the council estates had been hardly built then. 

I would like to see an enquiry - into exactly who and what and where from are the people they caught. Already one lad had a job as a primary school classroom helper. Another was a 47 year old man.

I was think - Geoffs "must have iPods, Nikes, Bling etc."  next time just get a big lorry full of it and show it to the crowd then drive just faster than they can run, until you reach Dover then do a sharp turn just before the white cliffs.  Or even send the lorry over the cliff on it's own. It would be a lot cheaper than the riots. Lemmings.


Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Muggins

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8535
I particularly like this quote from an open letter to Cameron:

"There is hope for this country. But we must stop looking upwards for it.   

The politicians are the ones leading the charge into the gutter."

Unfortunately for some reason I can't get the link to it.  But it didn;t take me long by just putting 'open letter to Cameron' in the search box.

Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline boothill

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 304
People are asking now..just who polices the police ?

Some are now asking...just who moderates the moderators ?
Old people believe everything...middle aged people suspect everything...young people know everything    3 2 1 back in the room !

Offline I Could Do That

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1960
  • Swindon Born & Bred & Gone
People are asking now..just who polices the police ?

Some are now asking...just who moderates the moderators ?

Are you sure?

What people?
Proud to be gone

Offline Chav

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2385
  • Gender: Female
  • INNIT!
People are asking now..just who polices the police ?

Some are now asking...just who moderates the moderators ?
Who & who ?
Asking you,  or in general?
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse

Bootsie can't mean TS, there are no moderators.  Difficult to tell though, he's rarely specific in such comments.

Offline poemogram

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 200
  • Hello !
Riot of Words in Progress

London’s burning. London’s burning
Draw conclusions. No illusions
Cameron fired. Clegg fired .
London’s burning. London’s burning
Pour on soundbites. Pour on soundbites

Nanny state is what we hate
Nanny state is in a state
I’ll steal from you. You were my mate
Underclass ? A total farce.

Summer of Love ?
Summer of Fist and Glove
We just want wide-screen tv
Smash shop window get it free
Smash shop window get it free
Kristallnacht lite

Carpet Right Set Alight
Poundland Poundland
Poundland Poundland
Hard to understand
Underclass ? Spot our underpants
It’s you wot stole our EMA Grants

As Facebook on Firefox fires up thugs
Masked Facebook fans flames of Red Top readers
Fuels commentaries from chattering classes
Perhaps we all need to get off our arses

After Winson Green
Three-man-muslim-murder-mow-down
Iqbal’s words calm
Enough of Chicken tonite
Where are your kids tonight

Starry starry night
You never listened so far
Fiery fiery night
Perhaps you’re listening now

Small, small Somalian local businesswoman
“They smashed my office
I’m inundated with offers of sorrow
I’ll work again tomorrow”

Youth on streets again tonight
Operation Volunteer Clear-up
Community cohesion
Glued together with the resin of riot

Riot of Summer colours
Here. Here and now

Tony Hillier


Offline boothill

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 304
People are asking now..just who polices the police ?

Some are now asking...just who moderates the moderators ?

Are you sure?

What people?


Posted 08 August 2011 - 04:12 AM
MetSpecialCW, on 08 August 2011 - 01:51 AM, said:
Who polices the police? Answer: The Independent Police Complaints Commission and the Courts.


Basically and where will this end? Next the will ask who police the Police who police the Police.

Can't win.


Their words not mine either !    Do try to keep up


But they could have been telling fibs too I guess
Old people believe everything...middle aged people suspect everything...young people know everything    3 2 1 back in the room !

Offline itspavagain

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 254
  • Hello !
I was think - Geoffs "must have iPods, Nikes, Bling etc."  next time just get a big lorry full of it and show it to the crowd then drive just faster than they can run, until you reach Dover then do a sharp turn just before the white cliffs.  Or even send the lorry over the cliff on it's own. It would be a lot cheaper than the riots. Lemmings.
But how do you get young people to aspire to a £25k a year office job, rather than to becoming a millionaire footballer or gangsta rapper?

Offline bobwright

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
 Hope I have not got any of the facts wrong that follow, I take no credit for the sources or claims, the final sentence and Cobra's remarks are mine.

20% Front loaded Police cuts and how they affect Wiltshire

Police Authority   Police Officers        Police Numbers at                       Officers           Percentage        Timescale
                           as at 31 March 2010     31 March 2015 (proposed)      Cut                   officers cut

Wiltshire       1181                             1056                                         125                 10.6%         To March 2015
Nationally                                                                                             16,222

Other Government actions

?   Opposed CCTV development/use
?   Opposed Gang legislation
?   Proposed reduced/weakened sentencing
?   Reduced Police experience through forcing over 4000 early retirements in 2010/11
?   Taking credit for Police work and Policing numbers in London since Tuesday

Other points - supporting ‘we are all in this together’ Britian.

?   Politicians treated as an irrelevance by Police when making decisions.
?   Police decide their own tactics without political interference
?   Water Cannons are declared by the police as not being suitable for this type of criminality
?   Praising how brave the Police are/were now will not change embarrassing claims that Cobra meetings were responsible for the Police taking control of the streets, that is now acknowledged as being a load of old Cobra’s.
?   Police claiming they already had nearly all the powers that the Prime Minister claimed he had authorised the use

Still we musn't have an enquiry on such a trivial matter as Riots on the Streets of Britain (sic)

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
I was think - Geoffs "must have iPods, Nikes, Bling etc."  next time just get a big lorry full of it and show it to the crowd then drive just faster than they can run, until you reach Dover then do a sharp turn just before the white cliffs.  Or even send the lorry over the cliff on it's own. It would be a lot cheaper than the riots. Lemmings.
But how do you get young people to aspire to a £25k a year office job, rather than to becoming a millionaire footballer or gangsta rapper?

Good point.  I think encouraging unrealistic aspirations in schoolchildren is a social/educational failure that lies squarely at the feet of Nu Labour.  The harsh truth is that everyone isn't a winner, not everyone will, (or should), expect to go to university, become a footballer, model or reality television star.

Communities need street cleaners, bin men, plumbers, gardeners etc, but the notion that 'society' looks down on such occupations doesn't encourage many to look upon them as worthwhile and necessary jobs and wage snobbery - 'why should a binman be paid the same the same as me, a council officer' - does little to bring the renumeration offered by 'menial' jobs up to a living wage.  And then we wonder why 'menial' workers are from other countries.

We've allowed our children to be educated into believing and expecting an unachievable, (for most of them), fairytale of rights and aspirations. Whether the teenage fairytale will be dispelled by truncheons, tear gas and water cannons will be up to David Cameron.

I suggest that whether future primary school children will learn to have more modest, yet realistic, aspirations should be very much up to us.

Offline bobwright

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
Geoff - the problem is none of us know what we can achieve in life if we had the right support. However the right support seems to come at a cost that most can not afford. I support bringing up standards, not bringing down standards  however to achieve this we will need a fairer share of the nations wealth.

A well known local Politician predicted people taking to the streets. His view based on years in the Police and experiencing the Thatcher Policies first hand. He could see a repeat of the same mistakes, the lack of empathy, the lack of humanity and the same self interests that only serve the few. We can try to politically condition society so that no one reacts however in this case it looks like some have taken advantage of the social tensions to carry out criminal acts.

I am glad the Home Secretary is now giving a supportive message to the Police. If it is a cynical move to mend fences with the Police it will soon be found out by the actions that follow.

Offline bobwright

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
Council House evictions now taking place in Wandsworth, not sure if it is right or wrong, depends on the circumstances. Some individuals can be a constant problem for an area and their neighbours however this type of action can also lead to a displacement of the problem. If handled right it can help a neighbourhood and lead to change in individuals due to the consequences leading to new behaviour. There are many complexities surrounding council house evictions, for instance the parents may be in care in the property.

If a secondary action on top of court action is supported by the Prime Minister how is he going to ensure the same for Private Households?

Offline Muggins

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8535
It's difficult when these days,  when everything is about the 'winner' and being a quick winner too. (especially on the tele. Do kids still watch it?) And it is always being pointed out that being the winner always mean having more money having more stuff than normal.  Also we can now see on a daily basis what the other have that we have not. And probably never will have.

It was difficult bringing up the kids even back in the 70s and 80s.
I did aspire for my children - not just about doing the usual, but being something 'added on' - I won't say 'better' we all havea part to play.   At least it was obvious that one of them had brains early on and by the time they all went to secondary they all showed potential.

I had found in my youth that the kids that got themselves into trouble were not necessarily thick, but had not been shown how to use brains to their own best advantage, sort of a brain that is not in control and geared to learning something useful, is the worst kind to find maximum mischief.

With that in mind, I tried to keep my little blessums on the straight and narrow.  I was home most of the time and I do wonder how successive governments expect mums to bring up children when they are not there.  I had the support of our extended family who set a good example of work and moral ethics, good male role models (although a teacher once pointed out how matriarchial was our family) not true really the blokes were all at work but they spent plenty of time with them.  They were not allowed to annoy neighbours and complaints against them were listened to and dealt with, with the kids always guilty until proved innocent.  And they never knew when I might appear around a corner.

The bad apple/s in the family proved a good example of how not to behave.  Anything on the tele which showed bad behaviour at any level was discussed and pointed to as an example of how not to behave and why.  That was the days when everything but everything had a car chase!

I may not have been at work, but I was blessed worn out at the end of every day! 

Maybe the best way to find out what casued these riots is to take everyone that has been arrested, give them all a thorough health check and an intelligence test. Let's see if is because they are thick or not - I bet they are not.  Mistaken but not thick.

Des Morgan said in his letter in the Adver today that the Police lost control of the streets, it's my belief that they didn't attempt to take control in the first place, so they didn't lose control. They were wrong footed, thinking it was a demo - and it wasn't, well not after the first minutes.   

There is a lot more to this than meets the eye, I am sure.

Well said Bob last but one posting!

As to the housing evictions, maybe those were already known to the police and councils and this was their last call (ASBO and rent arrears etc). Can't beleive that would happen so soon if not.  Or perhaps they have been ordered to set a few examples.



Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
Geoff - the problem is none of us know what we can achieve in life if we had the right support. However the right support seems to come at a cost that most can not afford. I support bringing up standards, not bringing down standards  however to achieve this we will need a fairer share of the nations wealth.

Oh, I don't want to bring standards of education down, far from it, but I would like to see society learn to appreciate instead of derogate people who do, (are sometimes forced to do), the jobs no one else wants because of their low status, wages etc.  Jobs are what we do, they should not define who we are in he eyes of others, but they often do. 

I once spent as year, by choice, working as a cleaner at a Panasonic factory.  It was an eye opening experience which taught me that people see the job, not the person, in almost exactly the same way that people see the disability and not the person sat in the wheelchair.  At present many people are seeing and describing 'doley-scum' without really seeing the person behind the label or recognising that almost all unemployed people did not riot.

My point really is that, for example, bin men are more socially useful than a Northern Rock investment banker or Big Brother 'star' and yet we look down on binmen in this country when we ought to be grateful to them for doing a job we don't want to do ourselves. We encourage our children to aim high, (and there's nothing wrong with that per se), but we should balance that by teaching them them that not-going-quite-as-high-as-we'd-hoped is not failure and those that don't fly-high should be valued and respected too.

I think we've placed too much value on providing high-end opportunities when what we should have been doing for the last 30 years is encouraging the right number and type of opportunities, at all aptitude levels, across the educational and social spectrum and working to show that social sterotyping based on occupation is as socially corrosive as the caste system in India.

Offline Bogomil

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Hello !
I was think - Geoffs "must have iPods, Nikes, Bling etc."  next time just get a big lorry full of it and show it to the crowd then drive just faster than they can run, until you reach Dover then do a sharp turn just before the white cliffs.  Or even send the lorry over the cliff on it's own. It would be a lot cheaper than the riots. Lemmings.
But how do you get young people to aspire to a £25k a year office job, rather than to becoming a millionaire footballer or gangsta rapper?

£25k for an OFFICE job….

Where?
Please post the details cos the ones I have been looking at you’ll be lucky to get £16-17k

Offline Muggins

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8535
Geoff "Oh, I don't want to bring standards of education down, far from it"

Giving more educational choices and realistic targets for kids is not bringing standards down, it's  making it more fit for purpose.

Even if kids are clever or academically bright, they don't all want to join the rat race.  Opening their minds up to education is not just about getting that £25k office job or any high flying job, it's about making their whole day better.  Finding things to do in their spare time - bring back stamp collecting and model making.

I blame it all on blessed targets.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Chav

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2385
  • Gender: Female
  • INNIT!
I was think - Geoffs "must have iPods, Nikes, Bling etc."  next time just get a big lorry full of it and show it to the crowd then drive just faster than they can run, until you reach Dover then do a sharp turn just before the white cliffs.  Or even send the lorry over the cliff on it's own. It would be a lot cheaper than the riots. Lemmings.
But how do you get young people to aspire to a £25k a year office job, rather than to becoming a millionaire footballer or gangsta rapper?

£25k for an OFFICE job….

Where?
Please post the details cos the ones I have been looking at you’ll be lucky to get £16-17k

Have you tried applying for an office job at SBC  ;D
What do you fancy office wise?
Housing
Transport
Highways
PA work!
Planning department

Working for Capita
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline boothill

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 304
Extremely Non Believable Excuses Purveyance and Distribution Department please !
Old people believe everything...middle aged people suspect everything...young people know everything    3 2 1 back in the room !