Author Topic: Trying to Understand the Riots - indymedia website and any Swindon relevant comments  (Read 15076 times)

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Offline Muggins

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And it would help no end Bob, if they could get a number other than that 0845 number, one that takes you immediately to a human being!

That's of course if it is secondary importance to 999 - but it so often is.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline bobwright

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Until recently Swindon based Police were working to get a local number of the type you require however as you know a decision was made to make 20% cuts and this is now on hold.

Offline boothill

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dear oh dear oh dear.........yet more people sticking their noses in where they definitely aren't wanted or needed !

1920: In a further Libyan response to unrest in the UK, Libya's official news agency Jana has published a report urging the UN to protect British "protesters" from "repression".

Source: BBC News.. on my PC... in my living room.
Old people believe everything...middle aged people suspect everything...young people know everything    3 2 1 back in the room !

Offline Ben Reid

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I got bored and decided to rip off Psalm 23, its on my blog (I got a new one coming along aswell)

Quote
In light of the riots I have thought of a small satirical piece.

The PM is my Destroyer; I shall not live
He taketh me to lie down in barren pastures:
He leadeth me to the tempest.
He killeth my soul and ambition:
He leadeth me in the paths of austerity for His name' sake.

 

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Clegg,
I will fear no evil: For not even Cameron himself;
Thy Jack Daniels and thy Kebab, they comfort me.
Thou preparest a battle before me in the presence of Parliament;
Thou annointest my head with Vomit; My cup runneth empty.

And now a personal message from the Prime Minister;

"Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the House's of the Parliament forever."

This is a piece of fiction.

I do not support of recommend any violence against anyone during these riots and this piece of satirical work is NOT to be used as propaganda in any riot of any sort!

I think its quite good

Offline Chav

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Well you certainly have many hidden talents Ben  O0

Have you got the pro DJ programme as that would sound brilliant to music.
I see an anthem coming on  :wink:
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Chav

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dear oh dear oh dear.........yet more people sticking their noses in where they definitely aren't wanted or needed !

1920: In a further Libyan response to unrest in the UK, Libya's official news agency Jana has published a report urging the UN to protect British "protesters" from "repression".

Source: BBC News.. on my PC... in my living room.
Hey Boots
Cheer up ol boy  O0
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Ben Reid

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Yeah I've got all the recording stuff, I tend to use Mixmeister, sound forge, Atomix VDJ and Wavepad.

Offline Chav

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I just came across this article/blog.

Interesting read.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/08/201189105816840954.html



"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Adina

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A picture speaks louder than words.
Found on Facebook
Adina feels informed about Council services and is working together with her friends and community to improve her local area.

Offline Chav

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We didnt have much when we were kids, and we certainly did not start riots.
Mind you I did protest once and lead a march to Sanford House with a load of students from Hreod Burna as it was known back then.

It was in 1981/1982 and it was because of something to do with the dinner ladies not doing a lunch time duty meaning we had to go home at lunch times.

We were peacefull though and they did let me in to Sanford House with two others to speak to people.
My mum went balistic when she found out and I was grounded for a fortnight. 
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Adina

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Well  kids or youths are not like they were years ago. Even with antisocial behaviour they have upped the anti.
What worries me is that some of these youths are the next generation. What will their children end up like?

Its almost like a 'no hope society.
Adina feels informed about Council services and is working together with her friends and community to improve her local area.

Offline Muggins

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Ok - I was not making any excuses for the rioters, and I'm still not -then Cameron came on pontificating about the ones that do it and I couldn't help thinking -

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!

Because his sort, not so long ago, all with a modicum of brains (one would hope) well heeled and educated, properly brought up, who didn't need what they were taking, still managed to dip their hands into the cheat pot.  And they did it underhand and surreptitous - at least we could see who was doing the rioting and looting. And they set an example in what way?

So if the government want the kids told - get someone who is above reproach to tell them.  Now that's a discussion,  who would that be exactly?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline poemogram

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Laurie Penny Article ... on Al Jazeera as mentioned above ... INVITE TO READ IT from Tony

I'm huddled in the front room with some shell-shocked friends, watching my city burn. The BBC is interchanging footage of blazing cars and running street battles in Hackney, of police horses lining up in Lewisham, of roiling infernos that were once shops and houses in Croydon and in Peckham. Last night, Enfield, Walthamstow, Brixton and Wood Green were looted; there have been hundreds of arrests and dozens of serious injuries, and it will be a miracle if nobody dies tonight.

This is the third consecutive night of rioting in London, and the disorder has now spread to Leeds, Liverpool, Bristol and Birmingham. Politicians and police officers who only hours ago were making stony-faced statements about criminality are now simply begging the young people of Britain's inner cities to go home.

Britain is a tinderbox, and on Friday, somebody lit a match. How the hell did this happen? And what are we going to do now?

Obvious denouncement

In the scramble to comprehend the riots, every single commentator has opened with a ritual condemnation of the violence, as if it were in any doubt that arson, muggings and lootings are ugly occurrences. That much should be obvious to anyone who is watching Croydon burn down on the BBC right now. David Lammy, MP for Tottenham, called the disorder "mindless, mindless". Nick Clegg denounced it as "needless, opportunistic theft and violence". Speaking from his Tuscan holiday villa, Prime Minister David Cameron - who has finally decided to return home to take charge - declared simply that the social unrest searing through the poorest boroughs in the country was "utterly unacceptable".

The violence on the streets is being dismissed as "pure criminality", as the work of a "violent minority", as "opportunism". This is madly insufficient. It is no way to talk about viral civil unrest. Angry young people with nothing to do and little to lose are turning on their own communities, and they cannot be stopped, and they know it. Tonight, in one of the greatest cities in the world, society is ripping itself apart.

Violence is rarely mindless. The politics of a burning building, a smashed-in shop or a young man shot by police may be obscured even to those who lit the rags or fired the gun, but the politics are there. Unquestionably there is far, far more to these riots than the death of Mark Duggan, whose shooting sparked off the unrest on Saturday when two police cars were set alight after a five-hour vigil at Tottenham police station.

A peaceful protest over the death of a man at police hands, in a community where locals have been given every reason to mistrust the forces of law and order, is one sort of political statement. Raiding shops for technology and trainers that cost ten times as much as the benefits you're no longer entitled to is another. A co-ordinated, viral wave of civil unrest across the poorest boroughs of Britain, with young people coming from across the capital and the country to battle the police, is another.

Speculation

Months of conjecture will follow these riots. Already, the internet is teeming with racist vitriol and wild speculation. The truth is that very few people know why this is happening. They don't know, because they were not watching these communities. Nobody has been watching Tottenham since the television cameras drifted away after the Broadwater Farm riots of 1985.

Most of the people who will be writing, speaking and pontificating about the disorder this weekend have absolutely no idea what it is like to grow up in a community where there are no jobs, no space to live or move, and the police are on the streets stopping-and-searching you as you come home from school. The people who do will be waking up this week in the sure and certain knowledge that after decades of being ignored and marginalised and harassed by the police, after months of not seeing any conceivable hope of a better future confiscated, they are finally on the news.

In one NBC report, a young man in Tottenham was asked if rioting really achieved anything:

"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?

Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night, a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."

Eavesdropping from among the onlookers, I looked around. A dozen TV crews and newspaper reporters interviewing the young men everywhere.

There are communities all over the country that nobody paid attention to unless there had recently been a riot or a murdered child. Well, they're paying attention now.

Tonight in London, social order and the rule of law have broken down entirely. The city has been brought to a standstill; it is not safe to go out onto the streets, and where I am in Holloway, the violence is coming closer. As I write, the looting and arson attacks have spread to at least fifty different areas across the UK, including dozens in London, and communities are now turning on each other, with the Guardian reporting on rival gangs forming battle lines. It has become clear to the disenfranchised young people of Britain, who feel that they have no stake in society and nothing to lose, that they can do what they like tonight, and the police are utterly unable to stop them. That is what riots are all about.

Power

Riots are about power, and they are about catharsis. They are not about poor parenting, or youth services being cut, or any of the other snap explanations that media pundits have been trotting out. Structural inequalities, as a friend of mine remarked today, are not solved by a few pool tables.

People riot because it makes them feel powerful, even if only for a night. People riot because they have spent their whole lives being told that they are good for nothing, and they realise that together they can do anything - literally, anything at all. People to whom respect has never been shown riot because they feel they have little reason to show respect themselves, and it spreads like fire on a warm summer night. And now people have lost their homes, and the country is tearing itself apart.

No one expected this. The so-called leaders who have taken three solid days to return from their foreign holidays to a country in flames did not anticipate this. The people running Britain had absolutely no clue how desperate things had become. They thought that after thirty years of soaring inequality, in the middle of a recession, they could take away the last little things that gave people hope, the benefits, the jobs, the possibility of higher education, the support structures, and nothing would happen. They were wrong. And now my city is burning, and it will continue to burn until we stop the blanket condemnations and blind conjecture and try to understand just what has brought viral civil unrest to Britain. Let me give you a hint: it ain't Twitter.

I'm stuck in the house, now, with rioting going on just down the road in Chalk Farm. Ealing and Clapham and Dalston are being trashed. Journalists are being mugged and beaten in the streets, and the riot cops are in retreat where they have appeared at all. Police stations are being set alight all over the country.

This morning, as the smoke begins to clear, those of us who can sleep will wake up to a country in chaos. We will wake up to fear, and to racism, and to condemnation on left and right, none of which will stop this happening again, as the prospect of a second stock market crash teeters terrifyingly at the bottom of the news reports. Now is the time when we make our choices. Now is the time when we decide whether to descend into hate, or to put prejudice aside and work together. Now is the time when we decide what sort of country it is that we want to live in. Follow the #riotcleanup hashtag on Twitter. And take care of one another.

Laurie Penny is a 24-year-old author and blogger from London, who writes for New Statesman, The Guardian and others.  This work, originally posted to her award-winning blog is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Non-Commercial 2.0 UK: England & Wales License.
 
The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily represent Al Jazeera's editorial policy.

Offline Steve Wakefield

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It was in 1981/1982 and it was because of something to do with the dinner ladies not doing a lunch time duty meaning we had to go home at lunch times.

We were peacefull though and they did let me in to Sanford House with two others to speak to people.
My mum went balistic when she found out and I was grounded for a fortnight.

Thanks Chav made me chuckle :2funny:

All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Chav

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I just came across this article/blog.

Interesting read.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/08/201189105816840954.html

I read it earlier Tony.
Definitely a very interesting and powerful take on the situation.

However what got to me on the news, was the image of the young injured man who appeared to be helped to his feet by good Samaritans, yet  they robbed him. That made me feel sick.
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Chav

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It was in 1981/1982 and it was because of something to do with the dinner ladies not doing a lunch time duty meaning we had to go home at lunch times.

We were peacefull though and they did let me in to Sanford House with two others to speak to people.
My mum went balistic when she found out and I was grounded for a fortnight.

Thanks Chav made me chuckle :2funny:

Its true!
I got a bloody 2hr detention as well, ut that didn't bother me as I enjoyed school  ;D >:D

Well apart from when I was bullied  for being different!
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Steve Wakefield

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It was in 1981/1982 and it was because of something to do with the dinner ladies not doing a lunch time duty meaning we had to go home at lunch times.

We were peacefull though and they did let me in to Sanford House with two others to speak to people.
My mum went balistic when she found out and I was grounded for a fortnight.

Thanks Chav made me chuckle :2funny:

Its true!
I got a bloody 2hr detention as well, ut that didn't bother me as I enjoyed school  ;D >:D

Well apart from when I was bullied  for being different!

You different...... never!   ::)
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline boothill

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Ok - I was not making any excuses for the rioters, and I'm still not -then Cameron came on pontificating about the ones that do it and I couldn't help thinking -

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!

Because his sort, not so long ago, all with a modicum of brains (one would hope) well heeled and educated, properly brought up, who didn't need what they were taking, still managed to dip their hands into the cheat pot.  And they did it underhand and surreptitous - at least we could see who was doing the rioting and looting. And they set an example in what way?

So if the government want the kids told - get someone who is above reproach to tell them.  Now that's a discussion,  who would that be exactly?


With permission from the author,  please spare a moment to read an ex pat's take on all this !

My wife and I were born in east London and a north east suburb of London respectively. We grew up in wartime and post-war London. Our families had a home and enough to eat, but there was never a thought of spare money or luxuries. Everyone worked hard for what they got. Family life was strong as was the code of conduct expected of everyone in the community. We emigrated to Canada in our early 20s.

The riots have shocked and disgusted us. We have been proud of our British heritage but disassociate ourselves from current British society. We feel it was a huge mistake to allow mass immigration to such a small, overcrowded country. It has changed society and the racial diversity has just compounded the problems. Cultures don't mix well, and probably never will !

We had hoped the government might act more forcefully to put down these mobs. The police were overwhelmed and perhaps the army should have been brought in ?

Why did it take four days for the PM and mayor to show up? What a total lack of effective leadership. King George VI and Queen Elizabeth stayed in London during the blitz. Cameron was more concerned with a few more days in the sun in Italy!                                 Brian: Vancouver, Canada
Old people believe everything...middle aged people suspect everything...young people know everything    3 2 1 back in the room !

Offline Geoff Reid

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This comment makes complete sense and rings true to me:

Quote
Months of conjecture will follow these riots. Already, the internet is teeming with racist vitriol and wild speculation. The truth is that very few people know why this is happening. They don't know, because they were not watching these communities. Nobody has been watching Tottenham since the television cameras drifted away after the Broadwater Farm riots of 1985.


This one from a British expatriot living in Canada for the last 50 (?) years

Quote
The riots have shocked and disgusted us. We have been proud of our British heritage but disassociate ourselves from current British society. We feel it was a huge mistake to allow mass immigration to such a small, overcrowded country. It has changed society and the racial diversity has just compounded the problems. Cultures don't mix well, and probably never will !

...says the man who arrived in Canada as an immigrant. Perhaps white immigrants are more 'acceptable' in his opinion or it's just a case of 'It's alright as long as it's me doing it'.

Anyhow, the first commentator makes a series of reasonable points from an observation point which is right at the heart of the trouble.  The second commentator is several thousand miles and 50'ish years away from it. 


The reasons for the present troubles are going to be vastly more complex than 'It's cos they is black/immigrant/young', and although it's easy to retreat to familiar day to day prejudices which allow us to explain them away in a manner which makes comfortable sense to us, without taking any responsibility for it - Someone else is always to blame.

I think we're seeing the product of our own failures which began when we ended corporal punishment in schools and policemen stopped living in the areas they policed every day or night of their working week.

We gave our children too many rights and too few responsibilities and they have no idea who to respect, let alone how to respect them.  They are not given or experiencing enough cogent examples to enable them to understand why they should respect anyone.

We taught them that their actions, however bad they might be, will not have serious consequences and now they have learned that they can take without permission and without payment.

We allowed corporate advertising to teach them that they must have iPods, Nikes, Bling etc, if they want to be accepted by their peers - and if they don't have these things they are below standard or poverty stricken.  And the sad possibility of this is that many of them probably are poverty stricken.

I could go on listing these, but I think readers get my drift.....

And, on the other hand  I don't think it's coincidental that the worst, and most widespread violence we have seen for many decades is happening amidst a global economy which is tottering, (if not already starting to free fall), bad income distribution, political and business sectors which have been engaging  in corporate and political larceny, a weak banking structure and a serious import/export imbalance.

In 2011 Britain is less equal, in wages, wealth and life chances, than at any time since the Great Depression of the 1920's and in 2010 the fortunes of the richest 1,000  people in Britain rose by 30 per cent to more than £330,000,000,000 (£330 billion).  The rich really do get richer and the poor really do get poorer.  If the poorest parts of society feel the 'pinch' caused by people who are perceived to be 'rich bankers', is it really surprising that it is within the poorest, shittiest areas that unrest bubbles up first?

Blind faith in 'The Markets' is blind stupidity in my opinion. Market failures always cause human blight and I believe market failures are often, if not always caused by the greedy, idiotic and reckless few that have climbed to the top of the heap. Northern Rock anyone?

And yes, it is very true that Social Democracy is fecking expensive.  Safety nets, education, welfare and healthcare all cost a tremendously large amount of money and the current view of right wing politicians is that they are 'unsustainable'.  Britain endured the great crash of the 1920's, shook itself, looked at itself and saw what needed to be done and got on with it.   Differentials between incomes fell, the welfare state was created, economic growth and skills increased, education became universal and we've done quite well for the last 90 odd years.

It's time to have another good long and hard look at ourselves.


Offline boothill

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Kalamakooya has spoken !

but then again, the chap in Vancouver might also have been guilty of terminological inexactitudes !
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 04:04:44 PM by boothill »
Old people believe everything...middle aged people suspect everything...young people know everything    3 2 1 back in the room !