Author Topic: Trying to Understand the Riots - indymedia website and any Swindon relevant comments  (Read 16833 times)

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Offline poemogram

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http://london.indymedia.org/

This website provides a non-mainstream media input to the news coverage .



Offline poemogram

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Welcome to the Big Society
one post from above website is below :

August 09, 2011 02:39 by streetsabeach | Cuts Reporting | More ?


Last night saw an incredible spread of what some call "rioting", "looting", "mindless thuggery", or simply "anarchy in the UK." What is certain is no-one quite knows what it actually is or means. Even experienced political activists are not quite sure how to respond, but as more and more analysis begins to filter through the non-stop social and hysterical corporate media, where now for UKPLC? Just because rioters do not express overtly political aims does not mean the riots aren't political in origin. How else can disenfranchised, un-politicised youth make their voices  heard by the bourgeois middle and ruling classes?


Offline poemogram

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This statement on indymedia to Hackney Youth is from an umbrella group of hackney Community Organisations "


In the aftermath of the riot in Tottenham, and with the violence on the Narrow Way, we call on the youth of Hackney to show restraint and urge you not to get caught up in rioting.

We ask this because a riot is not good for you and it is not good for our community.

We know your anger:
• at the lack of education, training or jobs in the borough
• at the slim life chances that are afforded you;
• at the police who so often fail to protect young people, but who appear relentless in their determination to ensure that you ‘know your place’.

In a society that chooses not to respect you, participating in a riot can appear like an act of rebellion and a response to a complex series of problems: giving the police a hard time for once, and adopting the stereotypes of recklessness, criminality and brutality with which you are so often labelled.

However, a riot destroys what little we have in terms of our community assets, it also places the rioters, as well as bystanders at great risk.

The use of petrol bombs and the burning of buildings is not only devastatingly destructive to the institutions and businesses in our community. It puts peoples lives at risk. In Handsworth in 1985, two people died when trapped in their flat above a shop, in 2005 a similar tragedy occurred in the Lozells district of Birmingham. On Saturday night in Tottenham families with children had to flee through a burning building to escape.

Burning, destruction, and putting the lives of members of our community at risk is not the way to express your legitimate anger at being left behind in the boom years and expected to pay with your future when the economy crashed. You are capable of more imaginative and more effective ways of demanding economic and social justice.

You may feel that in the aftermath of a number of high profile deaths particularly from the black community in police custody, a riot is inevitable. But a riot is the response of those who have no alternative channel for their anger. In America, following the assassination of Martin Luther King, the black ghettos erupted. Yet, where the Black Panther Party organised, the most militant of black radical organisations, they called on the community not to riot, but to organise for justice. We urge you to do the same.

Finally, please consider the risks you are exposing yourself to. The police are sophisticated in tracking down rioters. CCTV cameras mean that you can be tracked; covering your face simply won’t protect you. The maximum prison terms for rioting is ten years and it is unusual for sentences for riot to be any less than five years. Even lesser offences of violent disorder receive very stiff penalties from the courts.

It is not just the risk of imprisonment: in 1981 during the Toxteth riot the police used vehicles driven at high speed into crowds to disperse them. One young man, not even involved in the disturbance, was killed when he did not move fast enough.

In this statement we have not joined the long list of politicians and police officers who race to condemn rioters, as if their own policies and failings were not a major ingredient in the toxic mix that creates the context in which riots occur. We have not pretended that you are ‘outsiders’ but have spoken to you as members of our community, who we want to remain in our community. Please do not let your anger blind you to the madness that is rioting.

 

Offline boothill

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One possible explanation ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424
Old people believe everything...middle aged people suspect everything...young people know everything    3 2 1 back in the room !

Offline Ben Reid

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The beginning of a revolution?

I've received various reports of things happening in swindon, all by word of mouth so unfortunately I can't confirm anything I've been told,  if I hear anything solid. Ill post it here

Also Robert Buckland has been in contact with the police force all day organising some extra muscle and has an extra "30 available" specially trained riot officers.....oh and there's extra vans out tonight.

Offline poemogram

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I passed through town and surrounds in the early evening and all was quiet on the Great Western Front - thankfully 

Offline boothill

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                                   "Never Underestimate the Predictability of Stupidity"
Old people believe everything...middle aged people suspect everything...young people know everything    3 2 1 back in the room !

Offline Mart

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Thought I would amble over to epetitions to see what the latest expression of disaffected yoof had inspired by way of riot related petitions:

Sorry if you're experiencing problems accessing e-petitons. There is currently a much higher level of demand than we expected

Mmm, bet there is a big queue of people waiting to call for more social workers or skateboad parks for the boisterous little scamps. Or it's been discontinued in order to maintain, um, order.

I've had a crappy day meself and my future is looking somewhat peaky, I flicked some gravel disconsolately against my own windscreen, didn't help.

Went down Currys to do some looting, turns out the 5 burner gas range is more than one man can comfortably lift.

Expect I'll swallow down my frustrations and trudge on doing the right thing.

Policing by consent my arse, looks more like feckin looting by consent and if I see/hear any more of Theresa Bloody May whittering on about how I don't want water cannon or baton rounds deployed I may go and make my sock draw untidy.

Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline boothill

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Again ...the strange thing is that in all this public insurrection (looting n rioting) there seems to be only ONE public building in each town and city that has apparently been  unattacked and left undamaged .......

                           Their Local Social Social Security Office...hmmmmm   wonder why that could be ?  (not)
Old people believe everything...middle aged people suspect everything...young people know everything    3 2 1 back in the room !

Offline Muggins

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Usually I'd be looking for possible reasons for this sort of thing (but if my kids had been involved I'd have ...well you can imagine)  but I can't find any here.

No placards. No chants and No noble cause.

So a new type of youth activity that brought nothing for any of them except even more contempt than before.  And anything they could pillage of course.

Of course one reason is that we've had a run of hot weather.  Honestly, they just don't know how to cope with that.  Might be worth doing some research into why it makes some kids go dolally.

And all that nonsense scaremongering and unfounded gossip about what was going on in Swindon yesterday, well that doesn't help at all.

Although one wit poster on Facebook said that they had burned down the college at a cost to Swindon of 43p!




Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Muggins

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Just had another thought. And listened to even more debate about the 'why' on the radio and it came to me that there is one thing the youngsters will have in common, they would all have had the dubious benefit of being taught 'Citizenship' at school.

When Citizenship came on to the curriculum I did wonder why/how that could be 'taught' especially in school.   

Were there properly trained teachers? Who decided what would be taught?   I wasn't particularly impressed when the first thing most of them did was go out litter picking. 

I anticipated that having learned how to be a good Citizen (of course  learning the right way always gives massive clues on how to do it the wrong way!) we should have had kids more switched on as to how to fight for their rights in the correct way. Was that embedded in their brains? Or were they not guided at all in to taking up their rights?

Or was the litter picking aspect so embedded to the exclusion of anything else that they ahve become frustrated in not having enough of it do do to prove themsleves good citizens that they have collectivelly and without any forethought - created a whole pile of litter to enable themsleves to prove it and it's gone drastically wrong?

The looting? and I do keep banging about this point, every time I have heard that the kids have been out doing something good, litter picking, planting ect, this is followed by a treat, a party, balloons, freebies to encourage? Bribe? them to turn up in the first place.

To give and not to count the cost, to labour and not to seek reward, just being a good citizen because it's the right thing to do, is not taughtas far as I can see!

And as my old Mum always used to say, you can't put an old head on young shoulders. Which is a very good reason why we should think carefully about lowering the voting age.

Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline DarkAuror

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One of the "youth" that was interviewed by the media mentioned that "they don't get respect, so why should they respect the police".

I was taught that respect is earnt not given. No wonder that some of the today's "youth" are delusional when they think opportunities, jobs, money and material things are supposed to be handed to them on a plate.

Offline Outoftowner

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Your inbuilt Oxford Dictionary misheard the comment, your Darkship,

She said, "The police disrespeck me so if you disrespeck me I disrespeck you."

Strange, a Jamaican "Yardy" gang accent, from a blonde girl. Unless the Beeb cut the rest of her meaningful comments, that was her sole reason for looting.

Personaly my favorite comment was from the femaale owner of a looted shop who said that, "They are feral rats."

In my garden, any rats that I find are put on a retraining course about why they shouldn't eat my vegetables and I then subsidise their diet with high velocity protein seed.
What's it all about?

Offline DarkAuror

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Your inbuilt Oxford Dictionary misheard the comment, your Darkship,

She said, "The police disrespeck me so if you disrespeck me I disrespeck you."

Strange, a Jamaican "Yardy" gang accent, from a blonde girl. Unless the Beeb cut the rest of her meaningful comments, that was her sole reason for looting.

Personaly my favorite comment was from the femaale owner of a looted shop who said that, "They are feral rats."

In my garden, any rats that I find are put on a retraining course about why they shouldn't eat my vegetables and I then subsidise their diet with high velocity protein seed.

You're absolutely right, I should have put I was paraphrasing.  ))))

It does make you think how this generation of "youth" (or is it "yuff") can actually find a job when they don't speak the queen's english. I appreciate that I speak with a broad west country accent but it doesn't stop me from speaking correctly.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Again ...the strange thing is that in all this public insurrection (looting n rioting) there seems to be only ONE public building in each town and city that has apparently been  unattacked and left undamaged .......

                           Their Local Social Social Security Office...hmmmmm   wonder why that could be ?  (not)

Given the number of public buildings that exist in cities, towns and civic administrative areas, I have considerable difficulty accepting that statement as being accurate.

Were you being humorous or can you supply links to sources which confirm the statement?

Offline Muggins

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Adver - Barrie Hudsons column - worth a read.

People are assuming that this is done to highlight problems - the youth have not chosen to do that, there has been no organised protest.  There is also an assumption that they are jobless although many of them don't look young enough anyway. 

Any excuses I have heard so far have been words put into their mouths by others - mostly via tele interviews. (Do you suppose they watch the news?)

Having said that it makes me wonder what they are thinking (if they are thinking at all) that being underpriviledged, illiterate, black or whatever they think keeps them out of a job - how is a criminal record going to help that.   Sort of giving themselves another hobble.

This is different slant on youth rioting - but remember the Teddy Boys tearing up Cinema seats and wielding flick knives and the Mod and rocker riots in Brighton and other seasides. 

I'm telling ya, it's all this hot weather. 
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline boothill

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Again ...the strange thing is that in all this public insurrection (looting n rioting) there seems to be only ONE public building in each town and city that has apparently been  unattacked and left undamaged .......

                           Their Local Social Social Security Office...hmmmmm   wonder why that could be ?  (not)

Given the number of public buildings that exist in cities, towns and civic administrative areas, I have considerable difficulty accepting that statement as being accurate.

Were you being humorous or can you supply links to sources which confirm the statement?

Oh great one , somehow I thought you would ..but perhaps I'm a LIAR ....what say ??
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 05:25:19 PM by boothill »
Old people believe everything...middle aged people suspect everything...young people know everything    3 2 1 back in the room !

Offline Muggins

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Now now lads, don't want a riot on here! good words coming up:-

Community Matters bulletin excerpt:

"We urge you to remain positive, calm and remember the impact each of you make on the community especially as your contribution and support has never been more important. It has been inspiring to watch communities coming together to form a stronger union and to show that we will not waver when it comes to maintaining our communities as decent places to live.

A lot of emphasis is being put on the young people participating in the riots but we would encourage you to make clear to local people and agencies that there are many more young people that condemn this activity and that want to be part of the solution. We need to show that we support the majority who are not taking part in the riots and who are actually making a difference by participating in the post-riot clear up. Our colleagues at National Council for Voluntary Youth Services have set up a campaign called Notinmyname which highlights those young people who do not wish to be associated with the violent activity.

To show your support please tweet with the hashtag #notinmyname or visit their Facebook page."

It's for the youngsters - you might be Ok Ben - Chav you are too old!
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Geoff Reid

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Boothill: You made an explicit claim of:

Quote from: Boothill
"the strange thing is that in all this public insurrection (looting n rioting) there seems to be only ONE public building in each town and city that has apparently been  unattacked and left undamaged ....... Their Local Social Social Security Office

And I asked whether you were being humorous or could back up your claim with sources. 

It's your claim, defend it or not as you wish but does replying with sarcasm, (and no facts), make it less, or more credible?

Offline bobwright

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 I am sure people will look at this in many ways and indeed some will shrink from giving an opinion in case they get it wrong. Within my Councillor and Community role I work with Wiltshire Police and whilst we will have to try to find a way of stopping this re-occurring again I have been advised by them of the following:

•   Wiltshire Police will continue to maintain an active presence on the streets and in our communities to enforce the law

•   Wiltshire Police will take decisive action against any criminality or disorder in our communities

•   Wiltshire Police has good relationships with all our communities and we have the support of the public to maintain order and people’s safety

•   The public can help us too by being vigilant and reporting any issues to us immediately

•   Wiltshire Police has plans in place to respond and deal with any outbreaks of disorder

•   Our partner agencies are supporting us as part of a coordinated approach to managing crime and disorder in our communities

If you do hear of anything, no matter how insignificant you feel it may be, please report it to Wiltshire Police.  Whatever occurs we will make sure that we maintain a dialogue with you and pass anything of relevance on.