Author Topic: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!  (Read 43385 times)

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Offline Mart

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #80 on: August 18, 2011, 08:11:32 PM »
there's always ear defs

Or def ears.

I live in Coleview, would the silly buggers hurling themselves out of aircraft be flying from the airfield in question? If so I find vicarious parachuting quite entertaining, I suppose if you live a bit closer it could be a pain, but no more than a railway or that soddin bloody Police helicopter weebling about while the co-pilot presumably shouts 'Get some, get some!'It's like a demented, flatulent short sighted sparrowhawk that can never quite see anything to plummet on.

I notice the hum of the A419 much more, don't suppose we can get that closed.......

My Dad lives about 12 miles from Gatport Airwick as the crow flies, or 747 come to that, and their definition of no night flights is straight out of the polticians' dictionary. 03:00 being a good example.

Where I am an infrequent visitor I do notice but only when it's mentioned, what I have noticed is that when it is mentioned you end up listening for the bloody things. My mum has just moved into the same village and reckons she doesn't even notice them.

I reckon if you moved there after the airfield was in operation you are on a bit of a sticky wicket and it has been there 20 years.

Makes you wonder if there is a minority, or indeed majority, watching Lyneham close and quietly muttering 'Thank Gawd for that'.

Airports and airfields, bit like power stations and landfill sites, sort of need them, but don't want to live next door to one.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Chris Watts

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #81 on: August 18, 2011, 10:48:58 PM »
I live in Coleview, would the silly buggers hurling themselves out of aircraft be flying from the airfield in question? If so I find vicarious parachuting quite entertaining, I suppose if you live a bit closer it could be a pain, but no more than a railway or that soddin bloody Police helicopter weebling about while the co-pilot presumably shouts 'Get some, get some!'It's like a demented, flatulent short sighted sparrowhawk that can never quite see anything to plummet on.

I notice the hum of the A419 much more, don't suppose we can get that closed.......


You've got a Councillor who is hot to trot on this sort of thing.

Maybe he could have a go at Gablecross as well and stop the noisy late night nee-naws.
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Offline Muggins

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #82 on: August 19, 2011, 09:03:04 AM »
I think maybe, that if youb buy a house in the vicinity of anything annoying, (I include trees in this) then that's your fault.

It's different matter when you already live there and said nuisance turns up on your doorstep.
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Offline Chris Watts

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #83 on: August 22, 2011, 03:37:31 PM »
I think Dales been on hols so I thought I would lob this one back into the mix.

Perhaps I can ask the question myself, what [would] everyone here do on this issue if you were a Councillor in the same situation?

I would have sought information from both sides and presented this to the Officers and the Borough Solicitor. I would trust that they would inform me that Redlands have not broken any of their planning restrictions and that it was out of the council's authority, therefore there are no grounds to bring this to planning. I would have then informed the complaining residents that they should contact their MP and that there was nothing the council could do as it was not within their jurisdiction. (Not a vote winner though, is it Dale?)

So, were you badly advised by the Officers and Borough Solicitor, or did you ignore their advice and bring this to planning off your own back?


Questions: If Redlands do not want to sell, what would be the councils options?
Hypothetically speaking, If the business is forced to close, would this affect the amount paid out in a compulsory purchase?
What affect will an operating airfield have on the value and sale price to developers of Bordering EDA land?
Also, when you declared an interest and stood down as chair for this agenda item, did you remain as a voting member of the committee?

Sent from my iPhone

Dale, I would like to put forward these questions again, keeping in mind at the planning meeting you posed the question as to who would buy any of the 1600 houses located next to an operating airfield.

1. If Redlands do not want to sell, what would be the councils options?
2. Hypothetically speaking, If the business is forced to close prior to the commencements of the EDA, would this affect the amount paid out in a compulsory purchase?
3. What affect will an operating airfield have on the value and sale price to developers of bordering EDA land?
4. When you declared an interest and stood down as chair for this agenda item, did you remain as a voting member of the committee?
Sorry to be a pain Dale, just wondered if you have had a chance to look at the above questions?
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Offline Emma Faramarzi

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #84 on: August 22, 2011, 04:32:49 PM »
Hi Chris

Dale is not on holiday so I am sure he will respond when he is not so busy at work.

Emma

Offline Chris Watts

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #85 on: September 06, 2011, 05:26:29 PM »
Perhaps I can ask the question myself, what [would] everyone here do on this issue if you were a Councillor in the same situation?

I would have sought information from both sides and presented this to the Officers and the Borough Solicitor. I would trust that they would inform me that Redlands have not broken any of their planning restrictions and that it was out of the council's authority, therefore there are no grounds to bring this to planning. I would have then informed the complaining residents that they should contact their MP and that there was nothing the council could do as it was not within their jurisdiction. (Not a vote winner though, is it Dale?)

So, were you badly advised by the Officers and Borough Solicitor, or did you ignore their advice and bring this to planning off your own back?




Questions: If Redlands do not want to sell, what would be the councils options?
Hypothetically speaking, If the business is forced to close, would this affect the amount paid out in a compulsory purchase?
What affect will an operating airfield have on the value and sale price to developers of Bordering EDA land?
Also, when you declared an interest and stood down as chair for this agenda item, did you remain as a voting member of the committee?

Sent from my iPhone

Dale, I would like to put forward these questions again, keeping in mind at the planning meeting you posed the question as to who would buy any of the 1600 houses located next to an operating airfield.

1. If Redlands do not want to sell, what would be the councils options?
2. Hypothetically speaking, If the business is forced to close prior to the commencements of the EDA, would this affect the amount paid out in a compulsory purchase?
3. What affect will an operating airfield have on the value and sale price to developers of bordering EDA land?
4. When you declared an interest and stood down as chair for this agenda item, did you remain as a voting member of the committee?


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Offline Tobes

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #86 on: September 06, 2011, 06:43:18 PM »
I spy a terrier on to something here....!

 :azn:

Time to go down to the council and ask this from the public gallery?
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Offline Dale Heenan

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #87 on: September 06, 2011, 07:26:57 PM »
Hi Chris, thanks for letting everyone know I was on holiday. Thankfully my house was intact when I returned, I do after all publish my home address, home phone and mobile number for residents to contact me  :banana:

I don't know why you continue to try and make this report about a decision I have made, either on the "poor advice of officers", or "off my own back" to garner votes.

The week after the May election, and one week before I was reappointed as Chairman, this report was public knowledge. In fact the owners of Redlands are quoted as saying

"With regards to the planning committee meeting in July we understand this is to report on monitoring which Swindon Council do on a regular basis and have done for many years as part of their policy.” and SBC was also quite clear in the CAA remit.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/9026086.Row_rumbles_on_over_Redlands_Airfield/

It was absolutely the right decision to have this report at the Planning Committee.


As for the questions, I've already answered them or I'm not going to get into hypothetical's about situations that I wouldn't know about.

And of the declaration, it was personal and not prejudicial. This is very clear in the minutes and as someone who has been to many council meetings you'll be aware of the difference and that I retain voting rights. However as Chairman of the Committee I normally vote only on split decisions since its the casting vote. I stood down as Chairman for this agenda item and took part as an ordinary member of the Planning Committee and ward Councillor speaking on behalf of local residents.


Offline Chris Watts

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #88 on: September 06, 2011, 09:17:42 PM »
Hi Chris, thanks for letting everyone know I was on holiday. Thankfully my house was intact when I returned, I do after all publish my home address, home phone and mobile number for residents to contact me  :banana:


Dismount Dale. I had stated that you had been on your Holiday not that you were on Holiday.

I don't know why you continue to try and make this report about a decision I have made, either on the "poor advice of officers", or "off my own back" to garner votes.

Maybe because of:
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/9060406.Airfield_s_future_under_review/
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/9182554.Noisy_aircraft_need_controls/

(I think that we agree that it was not poor advice from officers)

Quote from: Dale Heenan
“If we find there has been a breach, we could revoke their planning permission, and they wouldn’t be able to operate.


There was no breach and going through the motions of bringing this to the committee does not change that.

Quote from: Dale Heenan
“We can change their hours of operation and there are all sorts of things in between we could do.


No you can't. You have no power to do that as they had not breached their planning permission. We had the ludicrous situation in the committee meeting when a motion was put forward, and seconded, to do exactly this. Luckily Cllr Bob Wright was on hand as an observer to warn you that you had overstepped your authority and the motion was duly withdrawn after legal clarification.

It was absolutely the right decision to have this report at the Planning Committee.


No it wasn't. It was absolutely the wrong decision to bring this to the committee. Redlands had absolutely nothing to answer as the report made absolutely clear. Officers had absolutely concluded that they had absolutely not breached there planning permission. I wonder what could have been gained by doing so  ::).

As for the questions, I've already answered them or I'm not going to get into hypothetical's about situations that I wouldn't know about.


In retrospect I think that the questions are rhetorical, so don't worry yourself about them.

And of the declaration, it was personal and not prejudicial. This is very clear in the minutes and as someone who has been to many council meetings you'll be aware of the difference and that I retain voting rights. However as Chairman of the Committee I normally vote only on split decisions since its the casting vote. I stood down as Chairman for this agenda item and took part as an ordinary member of the Planning Committee and ward Councillor speaking on behalf of local residents.


It was my understanding that members of the planning committee must be unfettered from personal prejudice and leave their political hats outside. They must only look to the material facts. You expressed that you were personally affect by the operations at Redland and I will not repeat Cllr Darker complaint regarding her sunbathing  :o . Surely this was a personal prejudice and you should have stood down as a voting member for this Item. This would not have stopped you speaking on behalf of local residents as a ward councillor.




« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 10:07:01 PM by Chris Watts »
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Offline Tobes

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #89 on: September 06, 2011, 10:09:09 PM »
  :fence:

 :popcorn:
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Offline Chris Watts

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #90 on: September 06, 2011, 10:28:36 PM »
I spy a terrier on to something here....!

 :azn:

Time to go down to the council and ask this from the public gallery?

I think that a letter to the Borough Solicitor may be more in order for this. I have been concerned for sometime about the conduct of the Planning Committee on several fronts.

To name but one, there was the wilful disregard of legal advice by several committee members during the Coate Water planning submission with the chair failing to reign in the offending members . This could have been catastrophic for the council had the vote gone the other way with regards to legal challenges.
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #91 on: September 06, 2011, 10:30:06 PM »

 :fence: indeed :)

Offline Dale Heenan

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #92 on: September 06, 2011, 10:34:54 PM »
I can see that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this topic, because no amount of information or explanation will matter.

You're also now cherry picking quotes about the possible options that the report will consider, with the results of the report and the agreed actions.
 
On your point about no powers, Cllr Wright and discontinuance etc, actually it was an option but the advice from officers was the evidence isn't there to support the action - the report also said that.

Discontinuance is not just about breach of conditions but that is the most common example. It was the borough solicitor who highlighted this to Cllr Parry and Cllr Wren and it was withdrawn. But then we've already gone over this point earlier in the thread. 

Normally when residents wish to get into detail like this I normally offer to talk to them personally because planning is a very complex area, and I'm happy to make the same suggestion with you.

Offline Dale Heenan

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #93 on: September 06, 2011, 10:45:00 PM »
I spy a terrier on to something here....!

 :azn:

Time to go down to the council and ask this from the public gallery?

I think that a letter to the Borough Solicitor may be more in order for this. I have been concerned for sometime about the conduct of the Planning Committee on several fronts.

To name but one, there was the wilful disregard of legal advice by several committee members during the Coate Water planning submission with the chair failing to reign in the offending members . This could have been catastrophic for the council had the vote gone the other way with regards to legal challenges.
By all means. And seeing as you've mentioned Coate and apparently how I've "failed to reign in the offending members", Councillors are entitled to their opinions and how much weight they give to the advice they are given is for them to decide. Where comments are put forward that are not material considerations, you will find I often either say so myself or I ask the solicitor to clarify and confirm the position.

This was also a point made during the Coate meeting because otherwise there would be no point in having a Planning Committee. On Coate the officers provided their opinion of grant, a QC gave his opinion and Councillors took a different view to both and refused permission. Had the vote gone the other way Councillors would have granted.

Offline Chris Watts

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #94 on: September 06, 2011, 11:18:16 PM »
Discontinuance is not just about breach of conditions but that is the most common example. It was the borough solicitor who highlighted this to Cllr Parry and Cllr Wren and it was withdrawn. But then we've already gone over this point earlier in the thread. 

Planning permission can be reviewed / modified / withdrawn if an unforseen circumstance becomes apparent that has not been taken into consideration within the initial proposal.  After 25 years of operation this will not and can not apply.

As Redlands have not breached planning the only recourse would be for residents to petition the home secretary via MPs.

Dale, what do you think of the new plane that is in operation since planning? Redlands should be congratulated for putting into operation an aircraft with prop technology that reduces the noice level by nearly 50%. They have gone the extra mile and should be supported.

Quote from: Coun Peter Greenhalgh (Con, Freshbrook and Grange Park)
“I am astonished and appalled we are still talking about disrupting a legitimate business in Swindon. There are always going to be some people who will make a noise but they don’t reflect the views of most people who are very happy. In this current climate we cannot be looking to take action against a legitimate local business.”


This is a nice story:

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/9231066.Beauty_queen_to_jump_10_000ft_for_hospice/

and this:

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/9163662.Receptionist_raises___700_for_charity_with_skydive/

I see that you fund raise for the British Heart Foundation. Have you thought about jumping out of a plane. :)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 12:14:49 AM by Chris Watts »
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Offline Dale Heenan

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #95 on: September 07, 2011, 01:32:48 AM »
My reply on the 12th August covered this and elsewhere so we going into circles now.

I've commented on my points, but I'm not going to reply on Cllr Greenhalgh's views. We are all entitled to our opinions.

Yes I have jumped from a plane but before I moved to Swindon, and I know several people who have used Redlands for charity.

Offline the gorgon

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #96 on: May 06, 2012, 11:28:42 PM »
First nice weekend for several weeks and what do we get blasted low flying aircraft.

Just what you need when you want to relax in your back garden on a nice Sunday - these small planes flying about.  I counted three of them up at one time on Saturday  :tickedoff: :knuppel2:

I like planes, but the drone from these horrid little things has, this weekend, pee'd off people I know from Walcot to Liden and everywhere in between :argh:

Rant over

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #97 on: May 06, 2012, 11:41:02 PM »
 
I hear Cllr Heenan, (the remaining one), has one of these on his Xmas wish list :)

Offline I Could Do That

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #98 on: May 07, 2012, 01:44:36 AM »
I'm still happy to swap houses with anyone living in Wanborough.
The noise of aircraft is more musical to my ears than the crap
that comes out of my neighbours car/stereo
Proud to be gone

Offline jennyb

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #99 on: May 07, 2012, 07:37:52 AM »
Well, this is the 1st time I've read this thread...and how interesting it is.

Councillor Heenan, Planning Chair as was, has a lot to say... and some of the things he does say... made my eyebrows raise.

Having experienced his command of the subject and chairmanship of said Planning Committee I would hazard that 'consistency' is not his middle name.

Interesting behaviours at play here methinks..

I wonder what role he may have as the new and reduced administration takes place?

Kareen
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.