Author Topic: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!  (Read 43417 times)

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Offline the gorgon

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #100 on: May 07, 2012, 10:01:20 AM »

I hear Cllr Heenan, (the remaining one), has one of these on his Xmas wish list :)


If he goes round the estates of East Swindon with a collecting tin he'd probably get enough for one of these (there might be a few going cheap after the olympics) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier_%28missile%29

If he went to Wanborough he'd probably get enough for two.

I Could Do That - the mentality of those that play their music too loud is similar to that of the people flying around in the little planes.  It makes them happy and stuff anyone else (in the case of the planes 100's if not 1000's of people in E. Swindon).  I don't know anyone in Wanborough for you to swap houses with, do know some council tenants in Parks though  :azn:

Seems nice and quiet at the moment (apart from the odd jet but I don't mind them and the noise soon goes unlike the mosquito buzz) but it's difficult to enjoy the garden when it raining.  >:(

Offline I Could Do That

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #101 on: May 07, 2012, 10:22:11 AM »
Hardly a fair comparison, as the noisy aircraft is full of people raising money for charity.

The smaller microlights are very quiet compared to most aircraft.

Loud music is played purely for selfish reasons, but aircraft are transport and having the engine running is pretty essential.

There are usually other noises. Like strimmers and lawn mowers too

I guess if nobody in Wanborough wants to swap houses, it can't be so bad.

Dale Heenan probably has been "consistant" because the criteria of a licensed airfield is a hindrance to over-developing the area with housing
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Offline Outoftowner

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #102 on: May 07, 2012, 10:38:07 AM »
Being of the aviation ilk and spending most of my working life mending them, something has always puzzled me about aircraft noise.

1.Military aircraft make a noise. That's life. Part of keeping us free requires powerful aircraft that have high performance and are therefore noisy.

2. In order to restrict noise, Civil transports take-off at the thrust level that will get them safely airborne for their weight at that time. They do not necessarily use maximum power. They reduce power after safely getting airborne and then follow a route out over an agreed area. This is their noise reduction plan. Once they are quite high up and away from people on the ground, they then use a higher power setting to climb to altitude. The engines and airframe have noise reducing features designed in.

3. Light aircraft usually fly at quite low altitude and can be heard by people on the ground. They have no particular need for high performance but they NEVER have a silencer in the exhaust as far as I know. The exhaust pipes are straight through, exactly the same as a WWII Supermarine Spitfire. We are not allowed to drive cars that do not have a silencer but it is OK to fly a slow private aircraft around built-up areas goofing at people in their back-gardens while the gases from combustion, complete with noise and flames come straight out of the engine into the atmosphere.
Perhaps fitting a silencer would reduce power, so be it, get a bigger engine or eat less pies. Any reduction in power can be engineered out.
It's always confused me this!

Nothing personal ICDT. I'm pro aviation but this is an anomaly that annoys many people but is so easily fixed. I suppose the first manufacturer to do it will produce an aircraft with less power and more running costs than his competitors so no one makes the first move. It requires legislation I think. So rather than trying to close airfields, our politicians should be asking the European Union to get the Joint Airworthiness Authority to require silencers fitted to light aircraft. Simples!
What's it all about?

Offline Mart

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #103 on: May 07, 2012, 01:20:47 PM »
Simple innit?

Electric aeroplanes, electric cars have saved the planet as evidenced by the complete lack of global warming of late, so electric planes are the next obvious choice. General Electric built the Lightning for flip's sake and that thing went like stink. Bit more flamey and noisy than you'd expect for an electric plane but I expect the technology was in it's infancy or something or Government cost cutting compromised the engine design,

I heard rumours it was in fact more of a hybrid or a bit of a dodge in anticipation of congestion charging.

Mind you, if you played your radio loud enough you couldn't hear the aeroplanes overhead and when in the garden I always leave a petrol lawnmower ticking over at about 12,000 revs to act as an additional external noise banishing measure. I can confirm this is particularly efficaceous during the night. Evidently last time I did this my neighbour was banging on my front door for hours, do you know, we didn't hear him once!

A nice smoky bonfire is something else I would urge you to consider, if you keep one burning at all times the ogling pilots will not be able to see you, an added bonus being that you hamper their navigation thus inclining them to avoid your airspace.

My usual fee of 82k  for these top tips has been waived seeing as how it is a Bank Holiday and all.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #104 on: May 07, 2012, 01:39:40 PM »
Mart

Was it the English Electric Lightning I think General Electric is an American company.  It was claimed by some that it was a  far better aeroplane than the Starfighter. I expect you can remember Starfighters flying overhead at Luneberg Heath or Munster? They had a poor accident record I think Gunther Rall had them fitted with the same ejector seat as those fitted in the Lightning to help save the lives of Starfighter pilots?
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Mart

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #105 on: May 07, 2012, 01:55:21 PM »
I dunno.

General Electric build a plane it must be electric, standstoreasondunnit?

I do remember Starfighters, I seem to recall prevailing opinion was that only Israeli's could fly the things and it had accounted for more Luftwaffe pilots than the RAF.

A Kelly Johnson, he of Lockheed Skunkworks fame, production I think. Some of the stories about him are fascinating, tolerances on, I think, the U2, were so fine he told the Navy if they painted theirs it would crash. They thought he was a pedantic loon and painted it. It promptly crashed.

Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Mart

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #106 on: May 07, 2012, 01:57:15 PM »
Just checked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Lightning

Swot.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #107 on: May 07, 2012, 02:38:30 PM »
Just checked.

Swot.

Mart

No not a Swot, but like you I was confused as a young lad when steam was being replaced by other traction on the railways. English Electric built Diesel Locomotives. So not surprised their planes belched out smoke and heat!

All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #108 on: May 07, 2012, 03:37:06 PM »

I used to live directly under the flight path into Greenham Common and was, from an early age, almost birth I suppose, well used to the comings and goings of aircraft into the base.  I even remember a soviet marked aircraft arriving once, which I think was carrying an observer team to ratify the numbers of nukes held on base.

I also have vivid memories of the Greenham air tatoos when, (pre cruise missile days), believe this or not - but it is true, the base perimeter fence was only maintained where it bordered the road and public footpaths.  In other areas, if you knew where to go, it was possible to walk onto the base at the runway ends and, by scampering on all fours between bushes, get within 10 feet of the Western end of the runway without being discovered or turfed out.

On one such incursion, very early in the 1970's - I think it may have actually been 1970, meaning I was 5 years old - Patrick, one of my elder brothers, had taken me into the base with a couple of his mates.  Naturally they were trusted adults as far as I was concerned, but even 42 years later I can remember that they planned the operation with almost military precision and I have formed a sneaking suspicion that I had been taken along as the official decoy, afterall, would security service leave a 5 year old to wander around on an active runway during an airshow whilst they pursued several nimble and athletic teenagers through the woods, or grab the sticky child first, (and smelly as it later turned out)?

Anyway, getting back to the point, I remember the Electric Lightening particularly well because, as it turns out, I have observed one moving at high speed less than 50 feet above my 5 year old head.  It caused me to, quite literally, shit my pants.

All of our group were huddled in some bushes, almost perfectly centralised under the flight line just a few feet short of a line of landing lights embedded in the very end of the runway. All of us were facing down the runway when, virtually silent at this point in time, a Lightening streaked above our heads.  A fraction of a second later a pressure wave, heat and smell of burnt jet fuel struck us, and a few milliseconds later the sound arrived, all at once with no build up or warning.

"What's that effing smell?" shouted Harry Hawkins, "Jet fuel!" screamed someone else.  "I think it's Pats little brother" said someone else, and he was right, when that awful crash of sound arrived without warning my youthful bowels had decided to take a holiday from active duty.

That year, the delights of seeing a pair of Harriers bow to the crowd, the red arrows, F111's and suchlike were lost to me, as I'd been deemed suddenly old enough to take 'the walk of shame' home alone.

First time I remember seeing Starfighters was, I think, 1977 when the Canadian air force sent a pair over.   I was 12 then, and attending the tattoo legally.  I asked a military colleague of my Father about the Starfighters.  He described them as 'Flying coffins'.  I didn't really take him seriously because I knew he was a Navy bloke, what did he know about planes? I reasoned.  Much later I learned to take everything he said seriously because, as it turned out, the bloke was a genuine James Bond.

And, another thing...., I also remember Starfighters because the first year I saw on was the same year George Lucas revealed Star Wars to my fragile and impressionable mind. Starfighters, I thought, were the nearest I was ever going to get to flying an X wing fighter.  These days I couldn't be squeezed into the cockpit of one with 2 Lbs of lard and a sausage rammer.....

Offline Mart

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #109 on: May 07, 2012, 03:38:57 PM »
but like you I was confused as a young lad when steam was being replaced by other traction on the railways

Ahem.

That was before my time, only the blink of an eye perhaps, but definitely before. I'll take issue with anyone who says otherwise.

I didn't inhale either if that comes up again.

Oooh, diesel aeroplanes.....

There's a thought, the Massey Ferguson of the skies, imagine the contrails off them puppies.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Mart

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #110 on: May 07, 2012, 03:48:31 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Johnson_(engineer)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2

James Baker developed the optics for a large-format camera to be used in the U-2 while working for Perkin-Elmer. These new cameras had a resolution of 2.5 feet (76 cm) from an altitude of 60,000 feet (18,000 m).[5] Balancing is so critical on the U-2 that the camera had to use a split film, with reels on one side feeding forward while those on the other side feed backward, thus maintaining a balanced weight distribution through the whole flight

Not scary at all. Oooh no.

Mnd you, at least you couldn't hear them.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #111 on: May 07, 2012, 04:34:19 PM »
Mnd you, at least you couldn't hear them.

We heard about Garry Powers though :)

I reckon, if the U2 was/is as unstable as I've heard,  the Divina missile which hit Powers's U2 probably just cruised up to it and said: "Boo!", leaving Powers and aircraft tumbling earthward :)

Offline the gorgon

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #112 on: May 07, 2012, 04:48:09 PM »
Hardly a fair comparison, as the noisy aircraft is full of people raising money for charity.

The smaller microlights are very quiet compared to most aircraft.

Loud music is played purely for selfish reasons, but aircraft are transport and having the engine running is pretty essential.

There are usually other noises. Like strimmers and lawn mowers too

I guess if nobody in Wanborough wants to swap houses, it can't be so bad.

Dale Heenan probably has been "consistant" because the criteria of a licensed airfield is a hindrance to over-developing the area with housing

Oddly it's probably not the level of noise that is the problem, it's the actual sound/noise and the fact it goes on and on and on that is the real problem.

I live comparatively far away, but friends in Liden, Covingham, Eldene etc. complain about it and they even say the noise can even be heard above the lawn mower. 

Imagine hearing nothing but lawns being mowed all day, that's what these small planes are like.

Charity... that might a reasonable excuse to disturb people once or twice a year.  I bet the good people of Wootton Bassett would soon get annoyed if there were charity motorbike rides organised by different groups going through the town every weekend.

Offline Mart

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #113 on: May 07, 2012, 04:49:12 PM »
Oh no.

According to a book wot I read on my Kindle, (OK, it was called Area 51, but it was more the Groom Lake stuff) there was a very bloody determined Russkie.

They were aware the buggers were wafting about, and were actually expecting a flight, but they wafted at a height that was right on the limits of what they could fire at them. So, shooting down Powers involved a lot of slide rules and working out of stuff like vectors (Vauxhall Vector?) velocities, heights and all kinds of other tricky stuff. Probably involved algebra.

Oh, and brand spanking new missiles and stripped down interceptor aircraft. Lunatics the lot of them, brave undoubtedly, but probably certifiable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident

Powers died when he crashed a news helicopter evidently, faulty fuel gauge or pilot error.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Mart

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #114 on: May 07, 2012, 04:58:25 PM »
I quite like the planes out of Wanborough, I'm at Coleview, is that far enough away I wouldn't know?

Not a lead into a punchline, I'm properly curious.

My Mum and Dad live 12 miles from Gatwick as the crow flies, me Dad grumbles sometimes, but then other times he doesn't, takes us a while to get used to it when we go up there but it sort of fades away after a while.

Their definition of 'no night flights' is a bit of a mickey take though. If you are struggling to get to kip you end up in a bit of a vicious cycle.

I speak as one who slept through Mr Fish's Great Storm with the windows open as my Dad manically scampered around nailing things down in his jammies.

No, he was not nailing things down that were in his jammies, he was wearing his jammies while nailing things down that were mainly in flight. Like greenhouses and ridge tiles.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Richard Beale

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #115 on: May 07, 2012, 05:07:35 PM »
I speak as one who slept through Mr Fish's Great Storm with the windows open as my Dad manically scampered around nailing things down in his jammies.

No, he was not nailing things down that were in his jammies, he was wearing his jammies while nailing things down that were mainly in flight. Like greenhouses and ridge tiles.

Spent that night cutting a tree out of an old ladies bathroom in Cypress Grove, Pinehurst. She reckoned that as it crashed through her roof, it sound just like her old man relieving himself of trapped wind first thing in the morning (when he was alive).

Quite an amazing, stioc 'old dear' as I remember. Brewed a good cuppa as well, as we freed her cast iron bath of a few ton of fallen lombardy popular.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #116 on: May 07, 2012, 05:32:27 PM »
I quite like the planes out of Wanborough

So do I. I live nowhere near Wanborough either.

Acutely aware that the continuation of flying from Redlands is what makes the airfield viable, and the airfield remaining viable and used is probably all that stands between Rod Bluh and his merry band of Henchtwits getting to grips with delivering their '3 Villages Plan', a.k.a, developing the Eastern Development Area, what we currently call 'Wanborough'.

Doubtless the land around Wanborough will shortly be renamed to something utterly, (deliberately so), disconnected from the area itself.  The new name will of course be visionary & vibrant, probably 'Commonhead Phase II', 'Commonhead East' or even 'East Commonhead' to begin with name metamorphosis finally stabilising at Bluhville, Hurleyburg and  Dalestown for the 3 villages.

I would gladly trade some airplane noise for the daily traffic misery of Mead Way, Whitehill Way etc, etc, all of which are clogged by too many cars, from too many houses, using too few roads, in too short a space of time.  Problems topbe replicated across the EDA after Redlands has been 'dealt with' by Cllr Heenan, (the remaining one), & colleagues.

I think every point on the Swindon compass will, within a few short years, be feeling the affects of planning blight.   


   

Offline I Could Do That

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #117 on: May 07, 2012, 05:37:54 PM »
but like you I was confused as a young lad when steam was being replaced by other traction on the railways

Ahem.

That was before my time, only the blink of an eye perhaps, but definitely before. I'll take issue with anyone who says otherwise.

I didn't inhale either if that comes up again.

Oooh, diesel aeroplanes.....

There's a thought, the Massey Ferguson of the skies, imagine the contrails off them puppies.

Thielert / Centurion did produce diesel engines for light aircraft.
The engines ran on jet fuel and were fitted in classic general aviation craft such as Cessna 172s.

Not sure if they still exist or went bankrupt.
Problem was that the money saved in fuel would take 20 years to recoup the cost of engine conversion.

Regarding noise, it is true that most aircraft exhausts are little more than a tube to take the smoke out of the engine compartment.
All due to getting maximum power and minimum weight in order to break the surly bonds of gravity.

I can't imagine many pilots spending (huge sums of) money just to loiter over someones garden.
The mission is to go somewhere and take in scenery etc

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Offline Terry Reynolds

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #118 on: May 07, 2012, 05:49:21 PM »
Geoff,
who was in power, when the planning permission was given for those roads? :wink:

Offline Mart

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Re: Redlands Airfield Wanborough- BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!
« Reply #119 on: May 07, 2012, 05:58:57 PM »
I did see the USAF have an alternative fuel development site.

There's something offputting about the thought you could be assaulted by a righteously powered and ethically sound aircraft.

I've always thought aircraft had to be powered by engines that revved like buggery, I'm no engineer and just associated huge revs with the equally huge amount of whirling stuff that goes on to get a plane off the ground. Are there aircraft with the equivalent of a gearbox or is it all just revving?

Silly question I suppose because a missed gear change would be catastrophic.

I just had a look at the bits and bobs for atomic engined aircraft, bit of a worry.

Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.