Author Topic: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice  (Read 4833 times)

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Offline 20Eyes

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Looks like it's been a very low turnout for the AV referendum vote:

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The first provisional figures for turnout at the AV referendum have been released and reveal low turnouts across the country. Turnout was lowest in London, which did not hold local elections today, where only 35.4 per cent of the electorate voted. In Scotland, which held concurrent national elections, turnout was better at 50.7 per cent. Elsewhere in the country, turnout averaged out at approximately 40 per cent.

Source: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/05/turnout-electorate-vote


Barely a third of the population of London even voted. In a way, it just shows how badly suited the AV system is for this country.


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Offline Muggins

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 05:44:57 PM »
One reason why we should all be promoting Local Democracy and an awareness of what it means to the common man - whoops! and woman.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Stretch Armstrong

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2011, 07:48:10 PM »
Do you know, I'd vote for an hour a week politics studies at school.
admittedly I'd also vote for 2 hours a week personal and national economics as part of the curriculum.

Offline Stretch Armstrong

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2011, 07:52:04 PM »
South West: 1.80m, 44.6 per cent

we should be proud.
(and that was the bes thing john prescott did in his career - first rule of fight club..) :clap: :knuppel2:

Offline Mellon

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 08:37:45 PM »
looks like were keeping first past the post....i am truly chuffed, its been a good day for me  :)
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Offline 20Eyes

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 08:53:46 PM »
Interesting stuff. Seems that apathy was also the order of the day for the council elections in the town:

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Local Elections: Apathy is the winner in election

The highest turn-out for the local elections was in Highworth ward where 46.08 per cent of the electorate voted.

The lowest was in Parks, where the figure was just 29.62 per cent.

Seem to remember I was rather snidely dismissed for suggesting that the overall mood was one of apathy. Oh well.
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Offline 20Eyes

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 09:05:23 PM »
looks like were keeping first past the post....i am truly chuffed, its been a good day for me  :)

Happy days, indeed.

Both my votes were winners this time around.

What now for Ed Miliband? Somehow managed to allow the Tories to actually gain some Council seats nationally and was very vocal in his support for the failed 'Yes to AV' campaign.

Given the latest government tracker figures, the Labour party must be getting somewhat worried about the man they disastrously chose as their leader barely six months ago. Oh dear.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2011, 10:01:28 PM »

No surprise you voted Lib Dem then :)

Did the conservatives gain council seats at the expense of the lib dems?

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2011, 10:22:43 PM »
No surprise you voted Lib Dem then :)

Had no choice. Only they could keep Labour out in the area I live in. Them's the breaks I guess.

Did the conservatives gain council seats at the expense of the lib dems?

No idea. Who cares? All I do know is that Labour must be smarting over how well the Tories did. That, for me, means yesterday was a roaring success.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Simon

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2011, 10:40:13 PM »
I voted for the slightly less rubbish system over the one which has made my vote count for nothing ever since I've been eligible to vote.

Not that my vote counted for anything.

Again.  :tickedoff:
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Offline Mellon

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2011, 10:44:33 PM »
Feel free to blame me simon, I voted no
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Offline Simon

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2011, 11:32:05 PM »
Feel free to blame me simon, I voted no

Ah! I have a scapegoat now  >:D


But seriously, there were 3 camps in this referendum - the ones who want to keep FPTP, the ones who wanted AV as a step towards a fairer voting system, and the ones who rejected AV because it doesn't go far enough.
We are all in this together, but some of us are more in it than others (with apologies to George Orwell)

Offline Karsten

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2011, 03:55:25 AM »
I think the focus in the AV /PR  campaign is misdirected.. it's not really the system that is wrong but the fact that people ain't bothered.

More should be done to allow smaller parties and independents to explain what they stand for, but also I think politics should be discussed a lot more in schools.
were there any election hustings this year?
Perhap bill boards in town/ shopping centres could be set up during elections displaying candidates leaflets/views.

it is interesting that Derique Montaut  Labour had such a lot of votes in Central
  1829 Majority = 1358  (+929 since 2007)
that means he was elected in with just 429 votes in 2007.
also suggests the gap between Cons and Lab has widened and Cons/LibDem voters didn't vote in protest?

Offline Muggins

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2011, 07:55:34 AM »
"I think the focus in the AV /PR  campaign is misdirected.. it's not really the system that is wrong but the fact that people ain't bothered."

The worry fact is not so much that people aren't bothered, so much as why they think it's Ok not to be bothered, or what is enabling them to use that as an excuse for non action.

Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2011, 08:43:00 AM »
Quote
I think the focus in the AV /PR  campaign is misdirected.. it's not really the system that is wrong but the fact that people ain't bothered

And the reason people 'ain't bothered' is?

1. Apart from pre-election their 'representatives' are remote figures, in my ward the sitting Conservative Councillor can't even find the time to respond to emails in which i describe local issues.

2. Their representatives are actually funtionaries of the party machine. 'Whipped' to vote a particular way.

3. Their representatives are often ill prepared to enter into any debate on a subject and as in say Wi-Fi they are unable to understand even the most simple of arguments or see the issues which concern others

4. Their representatives are neutered by a political system which ensures power is centralised into the hands of a strong leader and cabinet. A dictatorial system at times.

5. Their representatives are happy with a cushy billet and the £7,500 a year 'pension' top up

6. The opinions of the electorate are ignored at best, traduced at worst

7. Officers are defended in the face of incompetence and ineptitude

8. Public money is squandered on vanity projects

9. Acceptance of blame or responsibility is non existent. Instead the mantra is 'we will learn from this' Of course when something good occurs (and there are good things) politicinas are to the fore in claiming credit.

10. Whatever we say will make no difference

What makes matters worse is that I could have written this list 10 or even 20 years ago and even worse that that is i predict someone will say the same in 10 or 20 years time

Offline Alex

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2011, 08:58:52 AM »
Exactly, many people seem genuinely to feel disempowered which makes them feel like victims so then "why bother"? 

It's hard for many people to find the time to engage with "politics" in their already busy lives because it is perceived as complex, devious and all about parties, which many are fed up with.

While there is no radical change to the nature of democracy, while people feel angry about not having people who genuinely represent them regardless of their party, while the legal system is bonkers and money is being taken out of the system to try and manage the crime and culture of the country, I don't see any way that people will ever be likely to re-engage.

....Unless they are threatened with not being entitled to vote...   

Offline Muggins

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2011, 09:14:01 AM »
Des, And you wrote it and others of us in similar vein BEFORE this last election and yet people still went out and voted them in AGAIN. 

I think I said somewhere back there in the archives that although TS reached plenty, it doesn't reach my relations and friends in the areas that re-elect some of them. And I suggested that perhaps it needs some independent (and I don't mean candidates, just independent)  leaflets put out before elections (or indeed it wouldn't hurt to have that done now) "You have just voted in......." then they can spend the next year seeing if that is true or not. Scrutiny we could call it.

Community Orgs can't do that, mostly they are charities/have charitable aims and same as they cannot support a candidate 'Vote for....' neither can they say 'Don't vote for..........' 

The trouble is to really see what going on, you have to be an active citizen. You know, Des, that there is nothing quite like being at a council or any other meeting to know what was really said, the manner in which it was said, the shrugs, the development of eye tic's, the little asides and nuances outside the meetings who is talking to who on the steps before and who went with who to the pub afterwards.  That adds loads to your armoury of information that enables you see things the way you do. Reading it on here (and certainly not in the Adver) does not give that depth of understanding to others.

There must be some way to form a campaign group that becomes an Open Scrutiny Forum thingy that could put out the factual information we get on TS, to a much broader audience.

As to your comment about your local councillor that doesn't have the time to answer your questions. I'm sure they do, but it's the name on the bottom of the letter that stops the response and that's downright ignore -ance.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Alex

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2011, 09:51:40 AM »
I was thinking a similar thing Muggins, people have no idea what is really going on- how can they be expected to when the only independant forum for scrutinising anything is Talkswindon.

Word of mouth is a good way to raise awareness of TS but maybe there is something else that could be done   to engage the apathetic even electronically? I wonder if anyone has any ideas?

The only feedback I've ever had which people give for not reading it is that it looks too complicated when they look at the threads- because people simply skim read & often don't engage unless they can see what they are looking for within 3 clicks.   I wonder what other feedback anyone else may have had as reasons for not reading TS and wheterh there is any scope for it to be addressed?


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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2011, 10:04:59 AM »
Exactly, many people seem genuinely to feel disempowered which makes them feel like victims so then "why bother"? 

It's hard for many people to find the time to engage with "politics" in their already busy lives because it is perceived as complex, devious and all about parties, which many are fed up with.
 

Which suggests two commonly held beliefs:

1. My vote won't really change anything.

2. If things do change, it won't really affect me

People in this country tend to get most politically engaged when they realise that  a change will affect them - their income will be cut, a well-loved hospital will be closed, thie job is at risk. Outside those issues, there is a complacency that things won't really change, at least not for the worse, and that if they do, an individual vote won't have changed the outcome.

Voters and potential voters end up in a situation of passivity and complacency, which FPTP does nothing to improve.

Offline Muggins

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2011, 10:15:12 AM »
Yes Drone - when their backs are up against the wall and the worst time to make rational decisions - maybe? And when they have least time and energy to give to campaigning about it.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Drone

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2011, 10:24:22 AM »
Unfortunately, yes. Or when there's no democratic outlet to challenge a policy change, and then people protest. And of course, that's wrong too, as you'll probably get kettled.

Britain has a very, very stable democratic system, but the downside of that is it's so bloody hard to change anything or challenge anything. It's really demoralising. And I ALWAYS vote.  :-\

Offline Muggins

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Re: AV Apathy: 6 out of 10 couldn't be arsed to make one choice
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2011, 10:38:32 AM »
Actually Drone, you've hit the nail right on the head there, I've been kettled for a long time now!   No no regulars, that doesn;t mean puddled.  :idiot2:
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)