Author Topic: Eastcott Ward - Swindon Lib Democrat Pajak Plays Pinnochio Politics  (Read 35111 times)

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Offline DaveWood

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Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2011, 10:32:44 PM »
Sorry for my absence from TS for some time.  Most of the time it's just been Icky and I doing the election fighting this time (oh what I'd give for a Labour rent-a-mob!) so I've been a little pre-occupied.  But I've taken a little time to acquaint myself with the comings and goings on here, now.

The broad theme seems to be the Lib Dems being called liars.  Which is demonstrably false.

A number of non-partisan residents stopped me in the street in the last month and asked me why we weren't "setting the record straight" on these "lies".  One even pleading with us to do so.  Despite what may have been said elsewhere on here, the residents of Eastcott make their own minds up. They do research, they keep track of pledges, they keep copies of leaflets, they hold us to account and enough of them attend key meetings.

They knew the claims of the Labour leaflets and various online outlets were nonsense.  They wanted to know why we weren't hammering Labour with them.  I asked them to trust us and hoped the community would, too.  And they did.  And the community did (well, at least the same number that previously have).

During an election campaign wasn't the time to set the record straight.  Now is.  Well, not now.  As soon as I get the time I will be back.

To those residents of Eastcott who gave valid constructive criticism on TS over the last month: thank you.  Any group of people can always do better, especially part-time councillors.  I have been collecting these points and will raise them at a group meeting in the next week.

Offline Mellon

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2011, 10:36:44 PM »
I've heard there's something strange in the neighbourhood.......(Couldn't resist)
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Offline DaveWood

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2011, 10:38:11 PM »
I've heard there's something strange in the neighbourhood.......(Couldn't resist)

I've been satirised by national political journals on this subject, so I'm not going to mind the odd side-comment here  :wink:

Offline Mellon

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #63 on: May 09, 2011, 10:41:07 PM »
Got to laugh though, I'd be very interested to hear what happens at the meeting, is it open invitation or is it eastcott residents only? If it is just residents will you guys be keeping notes?
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Offline DaveWood

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2011, 10:42:41 PM »
Got to laugh though, I'd be very interested to hear what happens at the meeting, is it open invitation or is it eastcott residents only? If it is just residents will you guys be keeping notes?

Sorry, by group meeting I meant 'Council Group Meeting'.  Each party on the council has regular meetings of its councillors.

Offline Mellon

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #65 on: May 09, 2011, 10:45:39 PM »
Oh right that's a shame, I'd thought it would be a residents meeting, never mind just another quick question, why make it publicly known your setting the record straight when its only going to be discussed with council members?
"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the world together."

Offline DaveWood

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #66 on: May 09, 2011, 10:47:56 PM »
Oh right that's a shame, I'd thought it would be a residents meeting, never mind just another quick question, why make it publicly known your setting the record straight when its only going to be discussed with council members?

Sorry, my wording problems again!

The Truth - will be posted on here.

The Feedback - will be taken to the council group.

Offline Mellon

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #67 on: May 09, 2011, 10:50:50 PM »
Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up, be interesting to see what's in it!
"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the world together."

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2011, 06:44:43 AM »
Sorry for my absence from TS for some time.  Most of the time it's just been Icky and I doing the election fighting this time (oh what I'd give for a Labour rent-a-mob!) so I've been a little pre-occupied.  But I've taken a little time to acquaint myself with the comings and goings on here, now.

The broad theme seems to be the Lib Dems being called liars.  Which is demonstrably false.

A number of non-partisan residents stopped me in the street in the last month and asked me why we weren't "setting the record straight" on these "lies".  One even pleading with us to do so.  Despite what may have been said elsewhere on here, the residents of Eastcott make their own minds up. They do research, they keep track of pledges, they keep copies of leaflets, they hold us to account and enough of them attend key meetings.

They knew the claims of the Labour leaflets and various online outlets were nonsense.  They wanted to know why we weren't hammering Labour with them.  I asked them to trust us and hoped the community would, too.  And they did.  And the community did (well, at least the same number that previously have).

During an election campaign wasn't the time to set the record straight.  Now is.  Well, not now.  As soon as I get the time I will be back.

To those residents of Eastcott who gave valid constructive criticism on TS over the last month: thank you.  Any group of people can always do better, especially part-time councillors.  I have been collecting these points and will raise them at a group meeting in the next week.



The above reads like another focus leaflet Dave :)

I'm tickled by the idea that Swindon's 5 Lib Dems are going to hold a group meeting to agree what the 'truth' is, before any of them will discuss it publicly.  I'm certainly looking forward to learning why Cllr Pajak recently denied he'd ever he'd made comments about Wattsy in Eastcott Lib Dem election leaflets.

If we're going to have a electoral post-mortem for Eastcott could we start with the basics of establishing who said x, y and z?  There's no doubt what I authored, obvious what Chris Watts distributed, but we have yet to learn who wrote the Liberal Democrat Focus leaflets which Cllr's Wood and Sewell distributed in Eastcott?


Incidentally Dave, why does Cllr Sewll's SBC contact page show a Bowood Close address, whereas your page shows C/o the Civic offices? - are you no longer cohabiting or are you worried Eastcott residents will assume yours is a house of multiple occupation?

As I've previously noted in the Eastcott Ward - Swindon Lib Democrat Pajak Plays Pinnochio Politics thread:


.....'ward councillor' present at this meeting was none other than Nicky's boyfriend - Cllr Dave Wood.   Their relationship is never mentioned in lib dem leaflets, which shouldn't be an issue in itself, except that they seem to go to particular trouble to omit ever mentioning it in their printed literature or on the doorstep and, readers of Lib Dem leaflets will notice, how Nicky is described varies between leaflets - sometimes she is Nicky Sewell Chair of KARA and sometimes Nicky Sewell is a 'Local campaigner' - it all depends what 'image' they hope to project to residents.  Just to be clear here though,  Nicky Sewell is the Chair of KARA and her boyfriend is Cllr Dave Wood


Why do you take pains to avoid being associated with her?


:popcorn:






Offline Tobes

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2011, 07:39:45 AM »
I have to say Dave, I think that was a mistake. Its much better to be up-front and utterly clear about such issues, otherwise surely people are going to be suspicious about apparent subterfuge? What was the rationale for taking that appraoch?
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Outoftowner

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2011, 08:11:07 AM »
Quote for Geoff:
Quote
I'm tickled by the idea that Swindon's 5 Lib Dems are going to hold a group meeting to agree what the 'truth' is, before any of them will discuss it publicly. 
;D  ;D

The "truth" will be worth waiting for. Now where's my dual-party Perkian calendar?
What's it all about?

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2011, 08:28:07 AM »
This seems like an ill-advised move. Whatever the 'truth' may be, it won't be accepted or believed by those who wish not to, which will mean just about everyone you're trying to convince otherwise.

The LibDems did very well in Eastcott, comfortably seeing off the Labour challenge and bucking the national trend. Now is the time to sit back, enjoy the success and get on with the job - not to wade in and inevitably end up achieving the opposite of what you hope to.
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2011, 08:33:29 AM »

I meant 4 Lib Dems.

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2011, 08:41:13 AM »

I meant 4 Lib Dems.

Clickety-click.

Offline Des Moffatt

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2011, 08:57:48 AM »
Cllr Woods need to have a care in what he publishes purporting to be the truth.
Chris Watts checked his facts with me and others before publishing.
I was there as was Kevin Small, not only do we remember; we know where to find the evidence. Don’t just take Stan’s word for it Dave or rely on a collective false memory, we actually know. I really don’t think you are a liar Dave but you like any of us can unwittingly tell lies. All politicians spin the story to put ourselves in the best light. The trouble comes when we start believing our own spin.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2011, 09:01:19 AM »

Cllr Woods need to have a care in what he publishes purporting to be the truth.

Chris Watts checked his facts with me and others before publishing.

I was there as was Kevin Small, not only do we remember; we know where to find the evidence. Don’t just take Stan’s word for it Dave or rely on a collective false memory, we actually know. I really don’t think you are a liar Dave but you like any of us can unwittingly tell lies. All politicians spin the story to put ourselves in the best light. The trouble comes when we start believing our own spin.

Is Cllr Woods the author of the Eastcott focus leaflets then Des ?

Offline DaveWood

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #76 on: May 10, 2011, 10:49:28 AM »
I'm tickled by the idea that Swindon's 5 Lib Dems are going to hold a group meeting to agree what the 'truth' is, before any of them will discuss it publicly.

As my posts make clear the truth will be posted here as soon as I've written it.  Nothing to do with group.

I have to say Dave, I think that was a mistake. Its much better to be up-front and utterly clear about such issues, otherwise surely people are going to be suspicious about apparent subterfuge? What was the rationale for taking that appraoch?

As said above, I'm not taking the truth to anyone before posting it here.

Cllr Woods need to have a care in what he publishes purporting to be the truth.
Chris Watts checked his facts with me and others before publishing.
I was there as was Kevin Small, not only do we remember; we know where to find the evidence. Don’t just take Stan’s word for it Dave or rely on a collective false memory, we actually know. I really don’t think you are a liar Dave but you like any of us can unwittingly tell lies. All politicians spin the story to put ourselves in the best light. The trouble comes when we start believing our own spin.

Now this is interesting.  So you and Cllr Small are the source of this?

Do you take responsibly for what Labour leaflets and websites printed?

Do you also take responsibility for what Labour supporters like Geoff have written in their articles?

If so, this changes everything.

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #77 on: May 10, 2011, 10:51:01 AM »
If so, this changes everything.

Eh? How so? The truth can only ever be the truth. Nothing changes it.
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2011, 11:12:35 AM »
Do you take responsibly for what Labour leaflets and websites printed?

Do you also take responsibility for what Labour supporters like Geoff have written in their articles?

If so, this changes everything.

Changes nothing.  The truth is a fairly robust thing and, despite recent attempts by the focus team to distort it badly, it remains inconveniently and stubbornly robust.


That looks like Dave's flirting with making implicit challenges/potential legal threats so, if we're going to be discussing sources and editorial responsibility we'll be needing to invite the past editors of the Swindon Advertiser, the Standards Board for England, other still serving councillors and Father Leslie Pinfield*

By the way, who authored your focus leaflets Dave, and who is going to take responsibility for what was written within them? - Cllr Pajak is already denying he made some of the comments published within them....


*Unless he's currently enjoying breakfast dinner and tea with Jesus.

Offline Des Moffatt

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Re: Coming Soon: The Truth about Eastcott 2011
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2011, 12:29:10 PM »
Yes Dave I do stand by what has been published.
We have a system of approval by agents and while not personally aware of most publications, those carrying our P&P I have complete faith in them.
I have never met Geoff Reid nor talked to him on the phone, I need to put that right me thinks. Since I have been aware of TS I have not noted any time that Geoff Reid has got it factually wrong. Indeed it was his take on a publication over Kevin Small’s name about four years ago that make us tighten up on the agent signing off all publications.
It now an open secret that Kevin did not himself write or approve the thing but had to take the lumps anyway. Something similar happened to Stan did it not? Seems to me that your lot did not learn the lesson.