Author Topic: 10 Census Lies  (Read 5079 times)

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Offline ph1lc

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2011, 09:06:03 AM »
NO2ID is a company Limited by Guarantee - this differs from a standard Ltd Co or Plc.
It is a vehicle frequently used by not for profit organisations that need a legal identity.

There are by definition no shareholders, and profits cannot be distributed to members.


Offline Muggins

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2011, 09:40:34 AM »
Usually they are also a Charity - are they?
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Offline Tobes

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2011, 09:52:05 AM »
Hmmm - I've been checking their website and much of the information there would seem to be out of date. Wikipedia is a bit more useful. A cooler head after the beer of last night means I'm less likely to shred my No2id t-shirt, but its still more than a bit disappointing to see the way the organisation seems to be heading. I personally started to lose faith with them when they tried to discourage local groups from making ID cards an election issue. Ho hum.

Margie - what's your feeling on their direction and strategy going forwards?
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2011, 10:29:47 AM »
It reeks, to me, of a little taste of 'power' and success starting to be a bit corrosive.

I was fully behind the NO2ID group's original aims and believe that they helped achieve the end of the ID Card scheme, although, it's probably more likely the recession/financial crisis was what really finished it off.

Regardless, there's something a bit distasteful and, well, just wrong, about uniting people under a single, simple cause and then suddenly dreaming up new ones once you're achieved your initial aim.

Even the link between ID Cards and the census is tenuous, at most.
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2011, 01:27:18 PM »
NO2ID is a company Limited by Guarantee - this differs from a standard Ltd Co or Plc.
It is a vehicle frequently used by not for profit organisations that need a legal identity.

There are by definition no shareholders, and profits cannot be distributed to members.

Forgive me if I'm wrong about this, but Companies Limited By Guarantee can still employ & pay salaries/wages?

Somewhere I have 100's of emails which almost chart the move from a mass single-issue campaigning body into an employment vehicle for the few at the top.

As Tobes said, it was an interesting moment when the campaign leadership instructed NO2ID'ers not to electorally attack Labour members of Parliament.  I took the view that they didn't really want the campaign to end until another 'cause' could be found to replace Identity Cards.

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2011, 02:02:42 PM »
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Why be so stupid as to not be honest?
 

That's what differentiates the honest from the dishonest, honestly.

Seriously, can you imagine an illegal immigrant filling in a census form?

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2011, 02:04:44 PM »
 
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Liberty looks like the way to go (besides which, I have this odd attraction to Ms Chakrabarti)

I would think she is far too busy wondering how to explain her links to the LSE and the part she played in taking £15 million from Saif Ghadaffi.

Offline Tobes

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2011, 02:07:58 PM »
Links please Des...
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Tobes

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2011, 02:12:20 PM »
OK i'll DIY
Quote
She was on the governing board of the London School of Economics which accepted a £1.5 million donation from Saif Gaddafi, the son of Libyan dictator, Colonel Gaddafi. She has expressed regret at the board's decision although it is unclear how much knowledge she and much of the board had of the donation. Howard Davies, the Director at the time, resigned over the scandal citing 'personal error of judgement'

Not exactly a case to have her condemned to be burnt at the stake.

Nope. Still has my attention and support.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2011, 02:51:11 PM »
Quote
Liberty looks like the way to go (besides which, I have this odd attraction to Ms Chakrabarti)

I would think she is far too busy wondering how to explain her links to the LSE and the part she played in taking £15 million from Saif Ghadaffi.

Links to the LSE?  Didn't Shami Chakrabarti graduate from the LSE ?

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2011, 02:56:22 PM »
Good old Shami:

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Problems for her arose earlier this year after she did not appear to implement her principles of upholding human rights when it came to her alma mater, LSE, where she is both a member of the council and the court of governors.

In both roles she was part of the decision to accept a large donation from Colonel Gaddafi, some student activists describe it as ‘blood money’, to train 400 of what one newspaper describes as his “stooges” to “administer his vicious totalitarian regime.”

Chakrabarti said and did nothing about the rights and wrongs of accepting the donation, said to be upwards of £2 million, although Amnesty and other human rights groups have had no qualms about reporting how ordinary Libyans under Gaddafi have never had an opportunity to vote, far less enjoy freedom of speech, conscience or assembly.

When the scandal first broke, Chakrabarti was quoted as saying she had ‘bucketfuls’ of embarrassment and regret about what had happened. Speaking about the reaction of the LSE ruling council, she added, “The council has been completely united in its regret. As a human rights campaigner, I can only share bucketfuls of both.”

Such belated expressions of regret are, however, not enough for Chakrabarti’s critics who say she should at the very least resign from both the LSE council and her job as Director of Liberty.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110309/main5.htm
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Offline Tobes

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2011, 04:12:25 PM »
...If someone had to resign every-time an organisation they were associated with took a donation from someone connected with a dictator, there wouldn't be a Tory politician left in the country (or many members of the Royal family serving in a diplomatic capacity, either)
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2011, 04:25:50 PM »
...If someone had to resign every-time an organisation they were associated with took a donation from someone connected with a dictator, there wouldn't be a Tory politician left in the country (or many members of the Royal family serving in a diplomatic capacity, either)

Agreed, but it's a slightly different kettle of fish when it relates to somebody like Chakrabarti. She goes out of her way to elevate self-righteousness to almost Olympic sport levels and appears to think even the mildest transgressions of others are life-endingly appalling... yet when she's involved in something truly suspect and overtly hypocritical she seems to think that saying she's a bit embarrassed makes it all OK.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2011, 04:31:20 PM »
I don't recall saying she should be burned at the stake.

As for whether she should resign from the LSE, that's for her to decide.  Incidentally she isn't like a politician or a member of the Royal Family she represents an organisation which campaigns against countries such as Libya and people like Ghadaffi which have reprehensible human rights reacords.

I am sorry that you seem to have ignored Labour politicians in respect of dealing with dictators. Is that because they don't or is it that they are not expected to have any principles?

By the way, this all started because of your admission of an 'attraction to Ms Chakrabarti' which I thought was humorous

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2011, 04:45:36 PM »
As for whether she should resign from the LSE, that's for her to decide.

Twitter's been full of rumours (originating from the BBC) that she's offered to resign today. She'd still have about 6 different jobs, though, so probably doesn't really care.

I don't recall saying she should be burned at the stake.

That would no doubt be against her Human Rights, *sigh*
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Offline Mart

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2011, 08:23:28 PM »
It's a well known fact the Labour Party and CND were bankrolled by the Soviets, oh yes.

Just trying to sort out the linkies, back in a minute.

Probably still are, if I can't find the linkies that will be evidence of a cover up by the way.

Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Tobes

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2011, 10:26:04 PM »
ROFL! Again Des, with the tit for tat 'He criticise the tories, ergo, he must be a leftie'  :censored:  which passes for intelligent comment on TS these days.  ;D

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I don't recall saying she should be burned at the stake.

Perhaps not, but 20's here in his role as liberal witch finder general. I'm sure he'll have a Daily Mail handy to use as kindling  :coolsmiley:

I'll spell it out for you, so that neither you or 20 are under any misapprehension, I HATE LABOUR FOR 13 YEARS OF ILLIBERAL, ILLOGICAL, HYPOCRITICAL AND NEAR FACIST MEDDLINGS WITH THE CORE INSTITUTIONS AND CULTURAL VALUES WHICH USED TO GIVE ME A MEASURE OF PRIDE FOR BEING BRITISH.  :wink: (In caps, so Kohima likes it too!)

Mind you, the shenanigans habitually undertaken by their pin-striped opposition are the stuff of *some* infamy, to put it mildly, so those looking to remove the mote from Ms Chakrabati's eye regarding a supposed moral indiscretion might find their moral high ground somewhat obscured by the veritable tree sticking out from their own political orbits...

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It's a well known fact the Labour Party and CND were bankrolled by the Soviets, oh yes.

Yup - almost indisputable. Try Googling 'The Peace of The Dead' by Paul Mercer. I have a copy if you want to borrow it.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2011, 09:07:53 AM »
Perhaps not, but 20's here in his role as liberal witch finder general.

Nah, I just don't think it's impressive when so-say uber-liberals stand back and allow organisations they hold top roles in to accept massive financial backing from tyrannical oppressors such as Gaddafi, and then stand back and assume it's somehow OK because they stick up for the rights of terrorists in the UK.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2011, 09:28:38 AM »
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ROFL! Again Des, with the tit for tat


Ugh no - just asking whether you had a reason for omitting a group?

I am well aware of your views on the Labour government's handling of the nation during its 13 years

I also know you 'fancy' the delectable Shami - which was the catalyst for my 'humour' which seems to have been lost in the morass of other stuff - sorry

Offline Ringer

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Re: 10 Census Lies
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2011, 09:34:20 AM »
Des

You do manage to bring out the best in a debate  :popcorn:
To qualify for inclusion there is only one rule - something described must have been said to have happened. `If the facts don`t fit the legend, print