Author Topic: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.  (Read 54492 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Steve Wakefield

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2566
  • Gender: Male
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2012, 10:07:44 AM »
MrG

I will continue to make representations   campaign for a Purton Iffley Road link and mitigate the traffic on Mead Way.
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Candide7

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • All is for the best in the best of all worlds
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2012, 10:35:50 AM »
"Have been reading the document..what a beast and what an attitude being set out by Officers. Localism is a meglomaniac's dream.... is it not..

In point 113 it states that the primary school will be built in phase 2 when 950 homes have been completed.

This equates to 219 primary children and 177 secondary children.

Where are they supposed to go to school in the interim? "


Kareen, spot on. Before one brick is put on the ground there are already 40 primary school age children in Oakhurst who could not get into Oakhurst Primary School this year and the northern sector is presently 8 forms of entry short of secondary places so there is an acute issue already. This development will compound the issue as these kids will have to go to schools outside of the locality which means more car trips for the schoo runs in the morning and evening.

The new NPPF says that sustainable development must be quality built environments "providing local services that meet the communitys needs"! :'(





Francois-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) - I hate what you say but I defend your right to say it

The opinions and views expressed are my own and are not those of any organisation I belong to

Offline jennyb

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1813
  • Gender: Female
  • Kareen
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2012, 02:14:44 PM »
Children's services refuse to release the detail of the Sep 2012 School admissions which will demonstrate in graphic detail the primary situation across Swindon.

It will prove whether Old Town is overcapacity.

It will prove whether North Swindon is undercapacity.

It will probably show whether there will be a new school in the Town Centre in 2014.

Officers must be able to explain why they state 2 x 420 pupil schools can be built in Old Town in 2 years and sit underutilised for years  but this cannot or does not need to happen in Tadpole Farm.

Could it be that the developers are calling the shots?

Or maybe Officers are nervous that the quality of their planning will be apparent to all?

This planning application should be deferred until Officers do the work they are paid to do.
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Candide7

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • All is for the best in the best of all worlds
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2012, 04:26:52 PM »
"Could it be that the developers are calling the shots? "

The correspondence I have seen between SKTransport (Crest's consultant on transport for Tadpole Farm) and Swindon Borough Council's Planning Dept leads me to believe that the relationship is closer than it should be.

Basically SK (Crest) said to Swindon Council if you don't take out the Purton-Iffley road link then we cannot build Tadpole Farm. To which the Council obliged.

My fear with this application is the same will happen with the Northern Link road that is in the current application. All three access/egress points into the development, including the Northern LInk road, are down as "unreserved" matters.

This means they are not guaranteed.

If Crest sell on the land after building Phase 1 - as many believe - there will be new developers negotiating with the Council What's to stop them sending a similar letter to the Council as they did with Purton-Iffley road expansion saying we won't build the remaining phases if the new Northern Link road is required?
Francois-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) - I hate what you say but I defend your right to say it

The opinions and views expressed are my own and are not those of any organisation I belong to

Offline Jean

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • Gender: Female
    • Jefferies Land Conservation Trust
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2012, 06:31:21 PM »


My fear with this application is the same will happen with the Northern Link road that is in the current application. All three access/egress points into the development, including the Northern LInk road, are down as "unreserved" matters.

This means they are not guaranteed.


The planning application is in outline. Reserved matters relate to the detail of design - further planning applications need to be submitted for this should outline planning permission be granted.  If outline planning permission is granted, I suspect that the road layout will have full planning permission - that is why they are not "reserved matters".
Live simply so that others might simply live

Offline Candide7

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • All is for the best in the best of all worlds
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2012, 12:06:12 AM »
The more I read the Planning Officers report the more it reads like the developer wrote it!

This is one of many examples of spin I picked up which did not stack up with the original source document referred to by the Planning Officer.

Policy DP10B in Wilts & Structure Plan 2016 calls for 1000 dwellings to be built at the western edge of Swindon. The Planning Officer states that cells G&H were the recommended sites for these - Purton & Lydiards (G) and River Ray (H) from the Swindon Principal Urban Area Study - and on that basis Tadpole Farm is the preferred site for the west of Swindon development. When I looked at the PUA it actually says H should not be taken forward because of impact on Blunsdon and that actually the preferred site was a site straddling cells G & H. Not quite the same thing.

Tadpole Farm is H.

Furthermore the PUA study assumes that the Purton-Iffley Road link happens - which it has not - so much of the comparative analyses of pros and cons between the various sites for urban extension is not valid anyway! :WTF:

Francois-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) - I hate what you say but I defend your right to say it

The opinions and views expressed are my own and are not those of any organisation I belong to

Offline Candide7

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • All is for the best in the best of all worlds
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2012, 12:26:49 AM »
Secretary of State's decision on Commonhead Appeal - March 2012.

"8. The Core Strategy and Development Management Policies 2026 Development
Plan document (DPD) is a material consideration. However this is some way from
adoption so it has been afforded limited weight."


Please contrast the above from SOS letter on Commonhead Appeal regarding weight that should be attached to Swindon Draft Core Strategy in planning decisions to what SBC Planning Officer says in Tadpole Farm report on same subject quoting Commonhead Appeal decision as evidence that Draft Core Strategy is at such an advanced stage that it is almost equivalent to an adopted development plan. Who is right the SBC Planning Officer or the Secretary of State?
Francois-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) - I hate what you say but I defend your right to say it

The opinions and views expressed are my own and are not those of any organisation I belong to

Offline Jean

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • Gender: Female
    • Jefferies Land Conservation Trust
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #67 on: June 07, 2012, 07:29:56 AM »
Secretary of State's decision on Commonhead Appeal - March 2012.

"8. The Core Strategy and Development Management Policies 2026 Development
Plan document (DPD) is a material consideration. However this is some way from
adoption so it has been afforded limited weight."


Please contrast the above from SOS letter on Commonhead Appeal regarding weight that should be attached to Swindon Draft Core Strategy in planning decisions to what SBC Planning Officer says in Tadpole Farm report on same subject quoting Commonhead Appeal decision as evidence that Draft Core Strategy is at such an advanced stage that it is almost equivalent to an adopted development plan. Who is right the SBC Planning Officer or the Secretary of State?

As it happens, the SOS letter might have said that the draft Swindon Core Strategy should be given little weight in the decision making process, the fact is that "Commonhead" was identified in it way back in SBC's Preferred Options document in 2008 (as was Tadpole Farm) and this meant that we didn't stand a chance at appeal.

At the Lydiard appeal, that was turned down by the SOS, SBC provided evidence that the housing element wasn't needed because "Commonhead" and Tadpole Farm would meet the housing requirement need!!  We were stitched up again...

The Swindon Principal Urban Area Study is a piece of sh*t. It was never subject to public consultation and was completely skewed in favour of the outcome that SBC wanted. I won't take over this thread listing all the faults with the "Commonhead" findings.

   
Live simply so that others might simply live

Offline jennyb

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1813
  • Gender: Female
  • Kareen
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #68 on: June 07, 2012, 07:51:32 AM »
I can't find the specific details at the moment... and can't remember the link on TS...and don't have all the technical wording.. but here goes..   

In 2003? the Wichelstowe plan included the Southern Relief road which would have joined Croft Road via Wichelstowe to the M4) .

Part of this has been built and was opened to great fanfare some months ago.I believe that it cost a fortune.

It was I believe planned for completion during the Middle and West Wichel Phases.

On May 24th 2012 in a public meeting, SBC showed 'proposals' that this road would no longer be a 'relief' road because it would be going through the proposed district centre in Middle Wichel.. 'the shops'.

SBC could offer no rational explanation for this change... but actually said... we didn't need to go through this hassle... the existing planning conditions allow us to vary the design.

In my experience ,even when the public pay for expert advice to scrutinise Officers' advice, Officers advise Elected members to ignore it..

Who is accountable for the quality of infrastructure across Swindon and can they be relied upon?
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Richard Beale

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 494
  • Hello !
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2012, 10:50:40 PM »
oh aren't they kind... Crest offer us a park if we let them build at Tadpole Farm

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9748403.Plan_for_new_nature_park/

but wait a second, isn't Moulden Hill country park just round the corner....

Its all houses and parks in North Swindon and I just love this quote...

Quote
In a letter to members of Wiltshire Wildlife Trust, director Dr Gary Mantle, said: “Having an area of open space so close to where people live will be a good opportunity for residents to simply step outside and be close to nature.


But residents there can do that NOW :bash: :bash: :bash:, Mr Mantle is obviously trying to get WW Trust 'on side'.


And this Gem is just too rich to ignore

Quote
The developer has applied to Swindon Council to build 1,695 homes on the site at Blunsdon St Andrew, as well as other facilities, including a community centre, pub and primary school.


Perhaps that's the same promises that were given in Redhouse then. where years after leaving site the developers have single handedly FAILED to deliver... a pub and a comunity centre. Perhaps Justin Tomlinson MP should have a word with them BEFORE they start building, I know he's very keen on holding developers to their promises.


Quote
During the first round of public consultation, the council received 470 letters of objection or concern, and nine in support.


Will the 470 be heard?
 
Quote
Swindon Council’s planning committee will be asked on Tuesday, June 12 to authorise the planning department to grant outline permission.


 We'll know how effective he and the councillors for the affected wards are on Tuesday then.

Offline Candide7

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • All is for the best in the best of all worlds
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #70 on: June 08, 2012, 01:21:27 AM »
@Jean

The reason Commonhead appeal was lost was because development at Commonhead was in the Wiltshire + Swindon Structure Plan 2016 and local. Pplan 2011 - both adopted development plans for Swindon. The commonhead appeal was always going to lose because of that fact. Tadpole Farm is not in any adopted plan for Swindon. It only exists in draft core strategy which is not adopted and the SOS has already confirmed only limited weight should be attached to draft core strategy.

In legal planning terms the justifications for Commonhead and Tadpole Farm are quite different.

Francois-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) - I hate what you say but I defend your right to say it

The opinions and views expressed are my own and are not those of any organisation I belong to

Offline Candide7

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • All is for the best in the best of all worlds
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2012, 01:34:44 AM »
@Richard Beale

The park Crest is offering is actually the land in the flood plain they can't build on. It was going to be grass and the river ray anyway. All Crest is doing is buying off the some of the consultees on their application by chucking a few grand and calling the grass and river ray a park.
Francois-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) - I hate what you say but I defend your right to say it

The opinions and views expressed are my own and are not those of any organisation I belong to

Offline Jean

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • Gender: Female
    • Jefferies Land Conservation Trust
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #72 on: June 08, 2012, 07:28:55 AM »
@Jean

The reason Commonhead appeal was lost was because development at Commonhead was in the Wiltshire + Swindon Structure Plan 2016 and local. Pplan 2011 - both adopted development plans for Swindon. The commonhead appeal was always going to lose because of that fact. Tadpole Farm is not in any adopted plan for Swindon. It only exists in draft core strategy which is not adopted and the SOS has already confirmed only limited weight should be attached to draft core strategy.

In legal planning terms the justifications for Commonhead and Tadpole Farm are quite different.

Agreed - that didn't help! However the Structure and Local Plan requirement was for a university (plus the rest) at Commonhead. The Swindon Principal Urban Area Study was undertaken after the Local Plan and Structure Pan were adopted. It was this document that has been used as justification to promote Commonhead and Tadpole Farm as development areas in the emerging Swindon Core Strategy.
Live simply so that others might simply live

Offline Muggins

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8535
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #73 on: June 08, 2012, 09:30:58 AM »
@Richard Beale

The park Crest is offering is actually the land in the flood plain they can't build on. It was going to be grass and the river ray anyway. All Crest is doing is buying off the some of the consultees on their application by chucking a few grand and calling the grass and river ray a park.

Much the same as all the new developments then, Northern Development was sold on how much green space it had, but that green space is under pylons or on steep banks, it is indeed pleasant enough but the amount of green space that kids can actually play on is not a lot.   

I wonder if the green space at Witchelstowe is likewise?

I've already said my piece about the WWT and my disappointment at how they are carrying on. They depend on Members though (even if they no longer depend on their money) and there are AGM's!
I would prefer to see a smaller, nearer the ground WWT, that's sticks to it's principal of protecting wildlife, than the business model we have at present. Wonder if it's members realise and uinderstand the actions?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Jean

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • Gender: Female
    • Jefferies Land Conservation Trust
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #74 on: June 08, 2012, 09:36:35 AM »
@Jean

The reason Commonhead appeal was lost was because development at Commonhead was in the Wiltshire + Swindon Structure Plan 2016 and local. Pplan 2011 - both adopted development plans for Swindon. The commonhead appeal was always going to lose because of that fact. Tadpole Farm is not in any adopted plan for Swindon. It only exists in draft core strategy which is not adopted and the SOS has already confirmed only limited weight should be attached to draft core strategy.

In legal planning terms the justifications for Commonhead and Tadpole Farm are quite different.

Agreed - that didn't help! However the Structure and Local Plan requirement was for a university (plus the rest) at Commonhead. The Swindon Principal Urban Area Study was undertaken after the Local Plan and Structure Pan were adopted. It was this document that has been used as justification to promote Commonhead and Tadpole Farm as development areas in the emerging Swindon Core Strategy.

Sorry - I'm mixing up the Swindon Small Scale Extensions Study with the earlier Swindon Principal Urban Extension Study. Both were equally biased in their conclusions.
Live simply so that others might simply live

Offline Jean

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • Gender: Female
    • Jefferies Land Conservation Trust
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #75 on: June 08, 2012, 10:22:40 AM »
@Richard Beale

The park Crest is offering is actually the land in the flood plain they can't build on. It was going to be grass and the river ray anyway. All Crest is doing is buying off the some of the consultees on their application by chucking a few grand and calling the grass and river ray a park.

Much the same as all the new developments then, Northern Development was sold on how much green space it had, but that green space is under pylons or on steep banks, it is indeed pleasant enough but the amount of green space that kids can actually play on is not a lot.   

I wonder if the green space at Witchelstowe is likewise?



The same is definitely true at Coate. The green- spaces protected in the planning application contain significant archaeological finds (and Scheduled Ancient Monuments) ranging from Neolithic to Roman to Medieval whilst Dayhouse Copse (an ancient oak local nature reserve) is "protected" by a 10m strip of green. 
Live simply so that others might simply live

Offline Muggins

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8535
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #76 on: June 08, 2012, 12:04:57 PM »
10 metre aye, that will be just right for a 3m wide cycle path tarmac and lit. By the time they cut the grass both sides (as they do) that will be no buffer for the Copse at all. Can show you examples of like-wise done to an Ancient woodland and Ancient Edge and Parish Boundary Hedgerow, and that was planned back in the good old days.

We learned quickly to beware the buffer and what it meant.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Candide7

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • All is for the best in the best of all worlds
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #77 on: June 08, 2012, 12:54:56 PM »

@Jean
"Sorry - I'm mixing up the Swindon Small Scale Extensions Study with the earlier Swindon Principal Urban Extension Study. Both were equally biased in their conclusions."

Neither of the above documents are adopted development plans. They can inform the development of local plans but that's it.

The fact - unpalatable to SBC as it is - is that Tadpole Farm is not referenced in any current adopted local development plan for Swindon - and under planning law that is what counts. Under the new NPPF if existing local development plans are "silent" on a particular application (e.g. Tadpole Farm) then it comes down to whether the benefits outweight the negatives in terms of impact. This is the "infrastructure" argument.

In the Wilts & Swindon Structure Plan 2016 it refers to Policy DP10B the need to have 1000 dwellings to the west of swindon and it references cells G&H from Swindon Principal Urban Area Study. As mentioned before, Cell H (the River Ray - effectively Tadpole Farm) is not recommended to be taken forward because of impact on Blunsdon. The recommendation of the PUA study was a site straddling cells G & H. This could be Ridgeway or Pry Farm. Reason why SBC does not want those is that they are in Wilts jurisdiction not SBC - thats why SBC wants Tadpole Farm. All about money in the end!
Francois-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) - I hate what you say but I defend your right to say it

The opinions and views expressed are my own and are not those of any organisation I belong to

Offline swindonlinkman

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
  • Gender: Male
  • The best read publication in town
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #78 on: June 08, 2012, 01:38:17 PM »
Oakhurst Residents’ Association chair Paul Exell says report to Swindon Council's planning committee on 12 June covers up too much and decision should be delayed until Ridgeway Farm judgement comes through http://www.swindonlink.com/news/tadpole-farm-plans-just-not-ready-for-consideration

Offline swindonlinkman

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
  • Gender: Male
  • The best read publication in town
Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2012, 01:40:33 PM »
@RichardBeale - see also:
Crest Strategic Planning to give Tadpole Farm land to Wiltshire Wildlife Trust if Swindon Council agree planning application on 12 June
http://www.swindonlink.com/news/north-swindon-could-have-100-acre-nature-park-in-return-for-1700-houses

Wiltshire Wildlife Trust accused of accepting land and money at the expense of long term implications for North Swindon residents
http://www.swindonlink.com/news/wilts-wildlife-trust-condemned-for-crest-deal