Author Topic: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.  (Read 54497 times)

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Offline swindonlinkman

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2012, 02:25:42 PM »
Crest Strategic Planning to give Tadpole Farm land to Wiltshire Wildlife Trust if Swindon Council agree planning application on 12 June

http://www.swindonlink.com/news/north-swindon-could-have-100-acre-nature-park-in-return-for-1700-houses

Wiltshire Wildlife Trust accused of accepting land and money at the expense of long term implications for North Swindon residents

http://www.swindonlink.com/news/wilts-wildlife-trust-condemned-for-crest-deal

Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2012, 04:16:42 PM »
From Swindon Borough Council Children's services annals... 

Jan 2009 : East Wichel Primary school was delayed due to the recession.

Nov 2009 : East Wichel Primary school was needed... but the East Wichel site was too dangerous therefore it had to be built on the Croft.

Dec 2009: The Government was told that a temporary 60 pupil school was needed. SBC's own data showed 96 spaces in the schools included in the submission.

Dec 2009: £6.374m primary school provision allocated to SBC based on need of 275 in North Swindon, 173 in Central and 13 in Old Town all allocated to the Croft. 

Feb 2010: 3 Parents were offered places at the Temp School. No residents had been notified of the building and no planning application had been submitted.

Sep 2010 :60 place Temp school opened on Croft to 3 pupils and closed in Jul 2011 with 16.

Jul 2011: East Wichel permanent 2fe/420 pupil school opens for all year groups.

Feb 2012: Temp School finally removed having been empty for around 7 months.

East Wichel has approval for approx 838 houses which = 193 primary school children.

East Wichel catchment only covers East Wichel.

East Wichel is still being built...occupancy is, I believe,  around 500 homes.

East Wichel school has , I believe, less than 150 pupils.

The Croft School is about 1000 yards from East Wichel. Won't bore you with all the details...

Compare and constrast ... Primary place provision for ...East Wichel.. Croft...Northern Sector...Tadpole Farm...

Children's Services is responsible for all of this.

They will advise the planners. The planners will advise the planning committee.

Cllr Martin has already stated his position re Tadpole Farm infrastructure. Perhaps he knows where the children would have to go to school? Or is this as secret as the Primary School Admissions for Sep 2012?


 
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Muggins

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2012, 04:55:31 PM »
"Wiltshire Wildlife Trust accused of accepting land and money at the expense of long term implications for North Swindon residents"

I and others have been disturbed for some time about the survival methods like this.  They don't fight the fight to the end, but get 'the best deal they can' in case they can't make a deal  later in the process. 

I really don't want to think it, but I can't come to any other conclusion, that they now survive to look after their own specialist sites (important though they are) and this all came about when we were told that charities had to be more businesslike (not to be a business) but this is what happens, this is the result - smaller sites get 'sold out'. 

I phoned our local officer a couple of weeks ago, only to find that WWT has retrenched back to Devizes, so no Swindon office.  We're doomed, Wiltshire wildlife can't trust the Wiltshire Wildlife Trust.  Especially if it live in Swindon Borough.

They simply don't have the money and I think now that they don't even have the will to put up a fight.

He who pays the piper calls the tune.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2012, 07:38:33 PM »
"Cllr Martin has already stated his position re Tadpole Farm infrastructure. Perhaps he knows where the children would have to go to school? Or is this as secret as the Primary School Admissions for Sep 2012?"

Taylor Wimpey have got a nice big surprise lined up for Cllr Martin! If he's worried about 700 houses at Ridgeway then I have two words for him...Pry Farm. Watch this space.
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Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2012, 08:15:41 PM »
I want to now turn to the troublesome issue of "5 year housing land supply". The current administrations figures are based on historical build rates in Swindon. This is how they ended up with their figure of 25,000 houses (reduced from 36,000) being needed to 2026 which comes down to 19,000 after houses already built during period in question.

Does this number really reflect housing demand going forward? Well the answer is no, not really.

The fact is after the 2007/2008 global credit crunch crisis housing starts in this country fell to their  lowest numbers since the 1930s. The recovery from this is predicted to be slow and protracted, but nobody knows when it will recover to pre-crisis levels. The numbers the councils are working to are almost certainly too high.
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Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2012, 08:49:43 PM »
Will "presumption in favour of sustainable development" kick-start the economy?

It is a fallacy to think that building more houses is a solution to our present economic difficulties. When you build houses yes you create work. But that work will not be sustainable if you can't sell those houses so that you need to build more houses and so on.

In fact building houses that nobody wants to buy can cause severe problems for the economy as a whole as oversupply can be just as damaging as undersupply. The housing markets collapsed in both Spain and Ireland due to this very problem of building too many houses. Houses prices collapsed, people were forced into negative equity jamming up the house market.

Why we are being forced to build houses in the north and the west of Swindon when we can't shift houses in the south of Swindon?
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Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2012, 09:02:36 AM »
After a busy day topped and tailed by meetings and a drive coast to coast in between I have just caught up with TS and this thread. Still surprised that in this day and age you cannot get a mobile phone service everywhere!

Back on topic this is the agenda for planning http://ww5.swindon.gov.uk/moderngov/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=281&MId=5771&Ver=4&J=3 it is worth a read ploughing on through it in bite sized chucks. A mammoth report there must be lots of questions people have. When I have finished scrutinising it I shall comment in more detail.

By any stretch of the imagination it is massive, but if you have a super fast broadband 100 megy thingy it takes no time at all. I don't know if people know this, but the phone mast is already in place on Tadpole Farm is that a first?
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Offline Steve Wakefield

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Please Note: The Following New Guideline To Speak At Planning.
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2012, 10:14:30 AM »
If you want to speak at the meeting please note the following new guidelines:

Quote

WELCOME TO THE PLANNING COMMITTEE
OF SWINDON BOROUGH COUNCIL

NEW GUIDELINES - PLEASE READ

IF YOU HAVE COME TO SPEAK ABOUT AN APPLICATION THAT INTERESTS YOU PLEASE
READ THE FOLLOWING GUIDELINES. THEY EXPLAIN HOW THE COMMITTEE DEALS WITH
EACH ITEM. THESE GUIDELINES ONLY APPLY TO APPLICATIONS LISTED ON THE MAIN
SCHEDULE IN THE AGENDA

1. THE COMMITTEE CHAIR CALLS THE ITEM
2. PLANNING OFFICER PRESENTS THE APPLICATION

3. WARD COUNCILLORS MAY SPEAK

4. APPLICANTS AND/OR AGENT (5 MINUTES MAXIMUM IN TOTAL) WHO HAVE
NOTIFIED THEIR INTENTION TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM TO THE COMMITTEE CLERK
BY 12 NOON THE DAY BEFORE THE MEETING.

5. PUBLIC SPEAKERS (INCLUDING PARISH COUNCIL )- WHO HAVE NOTIFIED THEIR
INTENTION TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM TO THE COMMITTEE CLERK BY 12 NOON THE
DAY BEFORE THE MEETING.

(MAXIMUM 5 MINUTES EACH UP TO 2 SPEAKERS, IF MORE THAN 2 THEN MAXIMUM
10 MINUTES TOTAL SPEAKING TIME FOR ALL SPEAKERS)

6. COUNCILLORS WHO HAVE DECLARED PERSONAL OR PREJUDICIAL INTERESTS
MAY SPEAK

7. MEMBER ONLY DISCUSSION, INCLUDING ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS TO OFFICERS
OR ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS SPOKEN

8. A PLANNING OFFICER WILL CLOSE THE ITEM BY COMMENTING ON ISSUES RAISED
BY MEMBERS
9. VOTE
10. CHAIR BRIEFLY EXPLAINS DECISION IF NECESSARY
11. NEXT BUSINESS

THE 10 MINUTE MAXIMUM PUBLIC SPEAKING PERIOD WILL BE YOUR ONLY OPPORTUNITY
TO SPEAK, UNLESS MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE WISH TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS UNDER
GUIDELINE 7.

SPEAKERS WHO MERELY REPEAT POINTS ALREADY MADE BY OTHERS MAY BE ASKED TO
STAND DOWN.

IF THERE IS MORE THAN ONE PERSON WISHING TO ADDRESS THE COMMITTEE EITHER AS
AN OBJECTOR OR SUPPORTER, THEY ARE EXPECTED TO NOMINATE A REPRESENTATIVE
FROM THE SPEAKERS LISTED TO REPRESENT THEIR COLLECTIVE VIEWS.

THE CHAIR AND THE COMMITTEE HAVE THE DISCRETION TO DEPART FROM THESE
GUIDELINES, BUT WILL IN MOST CASES EXPECT ALL PARTIES TO ABIDE BY THEM.
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline I Could Do That

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2012, 10:34:42 AM »
Seems like they're all in a bit of a rush.

Re the phone signal-

Porthcurno.
Birthplace of international telecommunication........
No signal
Proud to be gone

MrGrumpy

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2012, 12:53:32 PM »
Quote
5. PUBLIC SPEAKERS (INCLUDING PARISH COUNCIL )- WHO HAVE NOTIFIED THEIR
INTENTION TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM TO THE COMMITTEE CLERK BY 12 NOON THE
DAY BEFORE THE MEETING.

(MAXIMUM 5 MINUTES EACH UP TO 2 SPEAKERS, IF MORE THAN 2 THEN MAXIMUM
10 MINUTES TOTAL SPEAKING TIME FOR ALL SPEAKERS)

There's democracy in action - the public and Parish Councils get a total of just 10 minutes between them to make their views known!

This is a major proposed development of 1,695 houses, not someone trying to add a porch to their house - it deserves proper open, transparent debate and not a ten minute time limit!  The planning committee report runs to well over 100 pages and ten minutes will not allow even a fraction of that to be challenged.

Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2012, 01:34:29 PM »
Quote
5. PUBLIC SPEAKERS (INCLUDING PARISH COUNCIL )- WHO HAVE NOTIFIED THEIR
INTENTION TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM TO THE COMMITTEE CLERK BY 12 NOON THE
DAY BEFORE THE MEETING.

(MAXIMUM 5 MINUTES EACH UP TO 2 SPEAKERS, IF MORE THAN 2 THEN MAXIMUM
10 MINUTES TOTAL SPEAKING TIME FOR ALL SPEAKERS)

There's democracy in action - the public and Parish Councils get a total of just 10 minutes between them to make their views known!

This is a major proposed development of 1,695 houses, not someone trying to add a porch to their house - it deserves proper open, transparent debate and not a ten minute time limit!  The planning committee report runs to well over 100 pages and ten minutes will not allow even a fraction of that to be challenged.

Do not be fooled or bullied by this.

Anyone who wishes to speak either for or against a planning application has the democratic right to do so. It is up to the Chairman to manage the meeting agenda and timing and he has no authority to determine that one member of the public has any more or less right to speak than any other.

Look at the Honda Wind Turbines in Oct 2011... over 30 people spoke , on the Croft in Nov 2011 over 20 people spoke.

At the Nov 2011 Croft planning meeting the Chair Cllr Heenan actually suggested that the public take 5 mins to go out and determine who should speak. The public advised him to not waste his or our time and get on with it.  We each had 2 mins to speak.

All you have to do is to write to the Committee Clerk itucker@swindon.gov.uk to register your intent to speak. You do not have to provide your words...but I would advise that you contact him the day before.

The planning committee minutes are pretty limited therefore I would strongly advise that you make your own arrangements.

Interestingly at a recent Council meeting in Wroughton, Cllr Ford stated that there was no issue if anyone wished to record the meeting. A bit of a precedent here?

Kareen 
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2012, 01:41:45 PM »
Taylor Wimpey have got a nice big surprise lined up for Cllr Martin! If he's worried about 700 houses at Ridgeway then I have two words for him...Pry Farm. Watch this space.
 :banana:

Are you sure he is even interested Candidate?

He wasn't interested in the state of his ward when he had responsibility as Lead Member for Street Smart!!
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Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2012, 01:46:37 PM »
And ...

'Ward Councillors may speak'.

Using Mr Taylor's logic this application will include the need for school provision and for mitigations to roads which are services there to support people from many wards.

Therefore you are not restricted to your 3 ward councillors in terms of representation.

For reference, at the Croft Planning Committee Cllr Bawden was allowed to speak for over 7mins unchecked by the Chair.



Kareen
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2012, 01:56:10 PM »
For reference, at the Croft Planning Committee Cllr Bawden was allowed to speak for over 7mins unchecked by the Chair.
Kareen

Yes that may be true kareen, but now you have Colin Lovell in the Chair and he is not there without reason.  You and I both witnessed him in action when Steve Rozier was speaking on the Locarno proposals!  I thought his intervention was both rude and unecessary.

People are going to have be very determined, as you have been, to record their disaproval of what is being done in their name and there may well be some blood on the carpet.

Unfortunately, we got the administration we deserve through 'not interested' ruling ok.  Otherwise this lot would be history and we could have avoided all this unecessary and unpleasant nonsense!
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Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2012, 02:35:46 PM »
For reference, at the Croft Planning Committee Cllr Bawden was allowed to speak for over 7mins unchecked by the Chair.
Kareen

Yes that may be true kareen, but now you have Colin Lovell in the Chair and he is not there without reason.  You and I both witnessed him in action when Steve Rozier was speaking on the Locarno proposals!  I thought his intervention was both rude and unecessary.

People are going to have be very determined, as you have been, to record their disaproval of what is being done in their name and there may well be some blood on the carpet.

Unfortunately, we got the administration we deserve through 'not interested' ruling ok.  Otherwise this lot would be history and we could have avoided all this unecessary and unpleasant nonsense!

Steve Rosier is not a councillor.

Being rude to the public is fairly common behaviour. It is there to discourage and dishearten. It is a playground tactic and reflects badly on the perpetrator but it is a tactic which is not very effective.

Swindon is where it is and it is up to the public to show all elected members and officers that we now have a fairly good grasp of how the rules work in spirit and in practice.

Kareen

 
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2012, 03:11:00 PM »
This is Great Britain not Soviet Russia... The peoples voice must be heard.

Having now read the Planning Officer's report in detail I can say that there are some terribly biased and frankly untrue assertions in that report.
I came to the conclusion that the Planning Officer is either incompetent or completely content to give up any sense of objective impartiality. I checked varios comments against original source documents and the report is full of spin and special pleading!
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The opinions and views expressed are my own and are not those of any organisation I belong to

Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2012, 03:35:23 PM »
This is Great Britain not Soviet Russia... The peoples voice must be heard.

Having now read the Planning Officer's report in detail I can say that there are some terribly biased and frankly untrue assertions in that report.
I came to the conclusion that the Planning Officer is either incompetent or completely content to give up any sense of objective impartiality. I checked varios comments against original source documents and the report is full of spin and special pleading!

This administration and the officer class who support them have operated as a dictatorship and appear to intend to carry on in this way.

They don't appear to realise that the genie is out of the bottle.. we know what they are up to..

Officers appear to believe that their advice is unassailable.  From what I have seen of a lot of it, it would not last a week in the real world.

As an example.. Officers said the Croft School was desperately needed... they are now being asked to prove it and are stretching the FOI act to the point at which it might just be broken in a ridiculous attempt to avoid coming clean.

If elected members are willing to take Officers at their word and not challenge their recommendations then, in my opinion,  they are being led up the garden path.

Time for elected members to do the job they are elected and paid to do..
It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2012, 07:20:06 PM »
Well what do you expect?

Given all of the strong public feeling about Tadpole Farm, how many of our elected representatives actually made representations about the plans?  According to the planning committee report (link in earlier post of this thread) a total of just one....good on you Steve W!

Obviously the Councillors in the Northern wards (Priory Vale, St Andrews etc) did not feel there were any issues with the plans for Tadpole Farm and that all of their residents were happy...or maybe they just don't care what the electorate think?

Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2012, 08:19:40 PM »
Well what do you expect?

Given all of the strong public feeling about Tadpole Farm, how many of our elected representatives actually made representations about the plans?  According to the planning committee report (link in earlier post of this thread) a total of just one....good on you Steve W!

Obviously the Councillors in the Northern wards (Priory Vale, St Andrews etc) did not feel there were any issues with the plans for Tadpole Farm and that all of their residents were happy...or maybe they just don't care what the electorate think?

Have been reading the document..what a beast and what an attitude being set out by Officers. Localism is a meglomaniac's dream.... is it not..

In point 113 it states that the primary school will be built in phase 2 when 950 homes have been completed.

This equates to 219 primary children and 177 secondary children.

Where are they supposed to go to school in the interim?

Maybe the North Swindon Councillors who approved the movement of £6,374m DFE primary school funding from North and Central to Old Town would care to explain?

It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

Smiler

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2012, 09:14:01 PM »
Did someone say meglomaniacs?  Isn't that encouraging self-important people to get a trumped up opinion of themselves?

I don't know who wrote the report or which one of the back room characters felt the need to get involved but you really have to feel a little sorry for this officer.  Talk about trying to hide the bad news.  Have you ever tried to hide your wedding tackle behind a very small figleaf?  It's all hanging out the sides! :spin: