Author Topic: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.  (Read 61560 times)

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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2012, 02:51:50 AM »
Cllr Bluh has been to meetings in Oakhurst and given an undertaking to do a traffic survey.  Where is it?

Anecdotal: I have been told more than once that Councillor Bluh has denied ever making that promise.

Balancing probabilities with my own experience of the 'worth' of his promises, I could easily believe that he did make that promise, and made it unambiguously and in such a manner as to make it undeserving of any other interpretation than the one reached by those to whom he made that promise.

Put bluntly: I don't accept a damn word that politician says as being true until I've verified it really is true.  He's big on lecturing others for what he opportunely perceives as attacks on his 'integrity, but does his political behaviour and dealings with the general public suggest that he is intimately familiar with the meaning of integrity or veracity?

The truth is not open to interpretation. You cannot be 'a little bit pregnant', 'partly catholic' or 'mostly male'. You either are, or you are not, and Cllr Bluh either did, or did not make that promise.  I believe those that said he did make that promise because I cannot see any good reason for them to lie about it.

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2012, 09:29:39 AM »
In the main I agree with you Steve but do you really believe that many of the Borough Councillors have a reciprocal relationship with the Parishes?  Are you speaking as a Councillor whose ward is Parished?  I believe that the Parishes are useful if there is something the Borough Councillors want.  Look at the S.106 issue – was there any consultation with the Parishes about how the money was spent?  Which side believes it holds the balance of power in this relationship?
 
I have heard that Cllrs Renard and Barnett paid a visit to Haydon Wick Parish Council on 30th May 2012 for an informal discussion on matters of local importance to them. As I’m sure you already know, the Parishes don’t do informal discussion and they are very strict on governance.  That’s why they employ clerks who are efficient and provide detailed minutes of all Parish proceedings.

I have reason to believe that the discussions were about the construction of a new indoor bowls club, traffic calming on Thames Avenue and the Tadpole Farm planning application.  The Borough Councillors, I hear, mentioned the likely loss on appeal if this application was turned down by the Borough Planning Committee.  I think there has already been a front page article about this subject in the Adver concerning the cost of the Coate appeal.

My understanding is the Parish Councillors will be returning the compliment and attending the Borough Planning Committee on 12th June on matters of local importance to them.  However, will they receive such a friendly reception or be so efficiently minuted?

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2012, 10:20:51 AM »
In the main I agree with you Steve but do you really believe that many of the Borough Councillors have a reciprocal relationship with the Parishes?  Are you speaking as a Councillor whose ward is Parished?


No, but if it was parished I would work with them, as parishes appear to provide well run allotments and introduced dog poo bins years before some Unitaries/District council's did. As mentioned on another thread cutting the grass, but not to forget street lighting recreation and playgrounds etc. All are well maintained, I don't know if it is the case, but I was told that Stratton PC used to collect the household refuse in its area.

I believe that the Parishes are useful if there is something the Borough Councillors want.  Look at the S.106 issue – was there any consultation with the Parishes about how the money was spent?  Which side believes it holds the balance of power in this relationship?


I believe the scrutiny of Haydon S106 is still someway off being done and dusted.

I have heard that Cllrs Renard and Barnett paid a visit to Haydon Wick Parish Council on 30th May 2012 for an informal discussion on matters of local importance to them. As I’m sure you already know, the Parishes don’t do informal discussion and they are very strict on governance.  That’s why they employ clerks who are efficient and provide detailed minutes of all Parish proceedings.


I agree parish minutes and records are comprehensive and informative, for example athey are easily found on the Haydonwick website.  :clap:

I have reason to believe that the discussions were about the construction of a new indoor bowls club, 
Do you know if that a parish council provided club? Will the people of Haydonwick be paying for it? Please tell us more have parish councillors voted on the matter? [/quote]

 
traffic calming on Thames Avenue

Labour knocked some doors during the election and people belived the Parish has been poor in including them in this change why do the parish want to change it? BTW if you get a petition up for SBC this may be a multi ward issue as I shop there and visit the community centre, friends and Parish Offices ther, so check it out first, whether it is a single ward issue.

and the Tadpole Farm planning application. The Borough Councillors, I hear, mentioned the likely loss on appeal if this application was turned down by the Borough Planning Committee.  I think there has already been a front page article about this subject in the Adver concerning the cost of the Coate appeal.


Is this what you are talking about? http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/9729672.Coate_battle_cost_council___226_000/

My understanding is the Parish Councillors will be returning the compliment and attending the Borough Planning Committee on 12th June on matters of local importance to them.  However, will they receive such a friendly reception or be so efficiently minuted?


I look forward to seeing them as Mannington Western, Shaw will be affected by this development. If they can object to Ridgeway Farm that is only going to be about 25% of the size of Tadpole then more hands to the pump will be welcomed.
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

MrGrumpy

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2012, 10:57:04 AM »
Geoff, no doubt people have told you what Cllr Rod Bluh said that night as there were over 100 members of the public present.  On the panel with him were Justin Tomlinson MP, Cllrs Tomlinson, Stoddart, Peter Heaton-Jones, Mark Dempsey, Mark Viner (Labour candidate for Abbey Meads) and senior officers from SBC.  The meeting was chaired by Graham Mack from the BBC, who also recorded it, and there were several Borough Councillors (Moffatt, Russell and Wakefield), Chairmen from Blunsdon St Andrew and Haydon Wick Parish Councils and committee members from local Residents' Associations in the audience who contributed to the discussion.  I believe as well that ORA minuted the evening and took a list of attendees.  It was a well organised meeting after which you can assume that ORA almost certainly followed up “the promise”.

George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2012, 12:30:04 PM »
Let me see if I have grasped this Cllr Rod Bluh is in a room with over a hundred people, councillors, an MP and the BBC and he believes he is right and they are wrong?

Offline Mart

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2012, 12:46:29 PM »
Let me see if I have grasped this Cllr Rod Bluh is in a room with over a hundred people, councillors, an MP and the BBC and he believes he is right and they are wrong?

Fervently.

In my limited experience he has a highly individual belief set.

WiFi is good and the catalyst for the latest IT / Comms investment in Swindon.

The College was absolutely going to be demolished years ago.

Mr Reid is a Nazi.

We need a car park with fins on.

All services are being maintained at their previous levels.

Fervently. Oh yes.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2012, 01:17:55 PM »
I am not as expert as some Borough councillors but for your information Steve you can learn a lot from the minutes of Haydon Wick Parish Council.  From what I have read there is a little confusion about whether Cllr Barnett approached the Parish as a Borough councillor, a Haydon Wick Bowls Club member or as a resident as some of the minutes have been confidential.  I think that the Chairman, Cllr Hailstone, is a member of Haydon Wick bowls club as is the Vice-Chairman, Cllr Fuller.  Perhaps someone could tell me who should have declared what interest in this matter?

The ex-Borough indoor bowls facility at the Oasis will not be continued as part of the privately-financed improvements.  One of the biggest reasons appears to have been that it was not cost-effective.  The proposal is to build an extension to the leisure facility in Haydon Wick and let the Parish pay the running costs.  This would mean passing on a potentially loss-making project to the parishioners.

HWPC has put this through all their committees and through Full Council and the answer has been no.  The main reason given is that the indoor bowls facility is a Borough responsibility and should not be transferred to the Parish.  Also the play area is popular and the Parish is seen to have more services for its older parishioners.  The Parish councillors are keen to serve all of their parishioners equally to use the precept wisely.

The Parish has not been consulted about changes to the traffic calming in Thames Avenue either.  This is a Haydon Wick Borough Councillors initiative  (please see 1.1 of 10th April HWPC Policy Committee)

Quote
1.1   Removal of Speed Tables

Haydon Wick Ward Councillors have responded to the comments the Parish Council made about the poll on their website with regard to the proposal to remove the speed tables adjacent to Morrison’s and the Haydon Centre:

"We conduct polls on our web site all year round and this issue has never been raised before.  Is the Parish Council suggesting we should let them have sight of every poll before we put it up? This is ridiculous. We’re not asking residents to make a decision, we’re just asking them whether they think it merits further investigation.

So if we had consulted the Parish Council first and they didn’t like it, is the suggestion that we should have ignored the issue even though residents are raising it with us? Hardly democratic is it?
"


 


George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2012, 02:14:49 PM »
Declare an interest who the borough councillor or the Chairman  that depend on the meeting surely.

I like the minute you have put up as it gives an impression that to question them is ridiculous unless you agree that their course of action merits further investigation. That is borough councillor democracy in action surely. As they say they are not asking residents to make a decision. Libdems  would not act that way surely.

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2012, 05:25:47 PM »
Back on topic, the matter that is causing families personal concern in North Swindon is school places. I have spoken to people who are finding it difficult to have their preferences met. Some are having to take their children on long journeys As they have no transport and public transport is a bit erratic or non existent between the schools offered it is causing anxiety and strain.

All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Bobby Bingo

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2012, 06:42:02 PM »
The clerk to Covingham Parish Council is now Mrs. Tomlinson - No not our Vera she is Justins Mum - this Mrs Tomlinson has just become Justins wife.
Will this mean that Covingham Parish Council will now have a direct lead into Parliament?
Bobby

Offline Muggins

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2012, 07:24:21 PM »
How come Covingham is a Parish all on it's own?

That will be a bit uncomfortable for them, as she is their employee, or to put it another way, they are her employers.

Will that mean that she may have to leave the meetings often, declaring an interest or anything?
 
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Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2012, 07:33:50 AM »
Back on topic, the matter that is causing families personal concern in North Swindon is school places. I have spoken to people who are finding it difficult to have their preferences met. Some are having to take their children on long journeys As they have no transport and public transport is a bit erratic or non existent between the schools offered it is causing anxiety and strain.

Tadpole Farm is due to go to planning on June 12th 2012.

Using SBC’s calculations, Tadpole Farm’s 1700 homes will generate 391 Primary Children and 317 Secondary Children who will need to be schooled.

Based on what I have read, The Tadpole Farm traffic assessments assume all primary children will travel to school inside the development but Crest/SBC offer no plan for a primary school on the development.

For the Northern Sector (the closest area to Tadpole Farm), based on Sep 2012 numbers
·         School Capacity of 540  –  PCT of  592  =  52 reception space shortfall . 


Crest state that building the primary school too early could mean it fills up with Children from other areas. As any new school must be an Academy they may draw their own catchment. Officers know this.

The Croft was presented to the Planning Committee with a 1km traffic assessment which the Officers knew was invalidated as the school was to be an Academy.

If SBC could build East Wichel and Croft and fund them to fill up over up to 7 years why is this same logic not applicable for Tadpole Farm?

There is also the small matter of the 2009 DfE primary school funding received based on a need in North( 295) and Central Swindon(173) but allocated to Old Town (13) for the Croft.

If children have to travel to primary school, traffic will increase as a result. This applies to both the Croft and Tadpole Farm. In the case of Tadpole Farm, where would the primary children have to travel to?

A planning application for 1700 homes with no clear education provision and an invalid traffic assessment cannot be viable and should be deferred until the appropriate information can be provided. In the case of schools information, according to Officers, that would mean Sep 2012.

If approval is recommended, in my opinion ,this is a very serious matter.

Cllr Martin , a member of the planning committee, stated in the 16/3/2012 Swindon Link that Tadpole Farm has all the necessary infrastructure in place. Perhaps he has seen other information?

It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.

George Elliot

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2012, 08:31:35 AM »
Back on topic, the matter that is causing families personal concern in North Swindon is school places. I have spoken to people who are finding it difficult to have their preferences met. Some are having to take their children on long journeys As they have no transport and public transport is a bit erratic or non existent between the schools offered it is causing anxiety and strain.

Tadpole Farm is due to go to planning on June 12th 2012.

Using SBC’s calculations, Tadpole Farm’s 1700 homes will generate 391 Primary Children and 317 Secondary Children who will need to be schooled.

Based on what I have read, The Tadpole Farm traffic assessments assume all primary children will travel to school inside the development but Crest/SBC offer no plan for a primary school on the development.

For the Northern Sector (the closest area to Tadpole Farm), based on Sep 2012 numbers
·         School Capacity of 540  –  PCT of  592  =  52 reception space shortfall . 


Crest state that building the primary school too early could mean it fills up with Children from other areas. As any new school must be an Academy they may draw their own catchment. Officers know this.

The Croft was presented to the Planning Committee with a 1km traffic assessment which the Officers knew was invalidated as the school was to be an Academy.

If SBC could build East Wichel and Croft and fund them to fill up over up to 7 years why is this same logic not applicable for Tadpole Farm?

There is also the small matter of the 2009 DfE primary school funding received based on a need in North( 295) and Central Swindon(173) but allocated to Old Town (13) for the Croft.

If children have to travel to primary school, traffic will increase as a result. This applies to both the Croft and Tadpole Farm. In the case of Tadpole Farm, where would the primary children have to travel to?

A planning application for 1700 homes with no clear education provision and an invalid traffic assessment cannot be viable and should be deferred until the appropriate information can be provided. In the case of schools information, according to Officers, that would mean Sep 2012.

If approval is recommended, in my opinion ,this is a very serious matter.

Cllr Martin , a member of the planning committee, stated in the 16/3/2012 Swindon Link that Tadpole Farm has all the necessary infrastructure in place. Perhaps he has seen other information?

Your post makes a good point about the principle of if it is good for East Whichel and Croft why is it not good enough for Tadpole. Is it anything to do with what has happened in recent years as one of the contributing factors is the local Tory MP Justin Tomlinson was a Tory on SBC in Abeymeads for 10 years. Coincidentialy the period  during which the building of North Swindon was going full speed.

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2012, 09:56:47 AM »
Thanks for highlighting the education and highways issues at Tadpole jennyb but I strongly recommend that you read the officers report for Tadpole.  If you think that the situation was dire before then the report makes gruesome reading for the residents up in the NDA.  Have the MP and councillors heard the expression hang your head in shame?

pg. 86 of the report
Quote
Primary Education (unless provided by developer) £5,077,986, Secondary Education (directed to Isambard Community and Highworth Warneford Schools) £2,725,352, Special Education Needs (SEN) £25,000, Leisure £275,000, Combined Transport Package (see transport tables 7 & 8) £2,229,500....Community Facility (to be provided by developer at a cost up to) £275,384, Administrative Fee £75,000

Infrastructure items delivered at additional developer cost

Delivery of two Form of Entry Primary School (if not delivered as a financial payment);


The recommendation at pg. 15 of the report
Quote
that the Head of Planning be authorised to GRANT outline planning permission under delegated authority and approve the reserved matters in respect of the means of access subject to:
i Completion of a legal agreement to secure the planning obligations that are material to the decision; and,
ii The conditions set out this report, with delegated authority to make reasonable amendments to those conditions before issuing formal consent as may be necessary

On a quick glance it looks like the administrative fee is more than the mitigation of one of the local roads which gets £60,000 for two crossings and the benefit of 45% of the traffic from the new development.

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2012, 10:33:01 AM »
The College was absolutely going to be demolished years ago.

It may have started but when will it be finished?  A friend commented that it was the slowest demolition he could remember, so now that the elections are over and Rod is re established in Euclid Street and the Liberals are returned in Eastcott will we still be talking about this in two years time?
All my posts are my own opinion and do not represent any political organization or group

MrGrumpy

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2012, 11:01:48 AM »
Sticking to the issue of development at Tadpole Farm, it seems that yet again the existing communities are getting a very raw deal.

Effectively no school places, no traffic mitigation and councilors who are happy to hide behind the skirts of officers when there is a decision to be made!

Offline Candide7

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2012, 12:12:44 PM »
Is it just me but one cannot fail to see the irony in the Officers recommendation that the decision on Tadpole Farm should be taken by delegated authority by the Head of Planning! What is the planning committee's job then? If it's not to make planning decisions then we can quickly identify another public spending cut for Mr Bluh!

The first real test of Localism in the borough on a huge and controversial development and the recommendation of an unelected official is that the decision should not be taken by democratically elected representatives but by another unelected apparatchik (his boss!).

We are not talking about a decision on an extension to Joe Blogg's house here but a huge expansion of housing into the countryside to the north of the town with massive impacts on both the north and west of the town.

This has Rhod Bluh's fingerprints all over it. That man should be working for the EU - they appreciate politicians with his partcular "skill set" there - ability to break promises and ignore democratic process :wakeup:. Quicker he goes the better.
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Offline I Could Do That

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2012, 01:07:38 PM »
The first real test of Localism in the borough on a huge and controversial development

I would say that "honour" went to Coate.

I asked at the Coate planning meeting " if SBC and the planning committee have no authority, what is the point of having a town council? Why are we here?"

Somebody else then made the suggestion  "If you can't stop this development, get out. Get some officers in who can"



Proud to be gone

Offline Techie

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2012, 01:12:07 PM »
Dear Sirs

?
Re: Planning application for Tadpole Farm

There has to be a completely separate road/estate system for the house owners to travel to and from Swindon - Oakhurst is already congested during the rush hour periods.

We already have a style of Milton Keynes in the northern sector - a mass of personality-less’ housing with no heart.

Similarly, any such new estate should be carefully constructed to ensure that existing occasional flooding in Tadpole Lane is not exacerbated.


?
Kindest regards

Offline jennyb

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Re: North Swindon Expands Westwards and North Towards Chapel Farm.
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2012, 02:13:12 PM »
In my experience, the public, our opinions and concerns are of no interest whatsoever to those who run Swindon.

Unelected public servants already have too much power vested in them and use these powers in a draconian fashion to push through developments of whatever quality across the length and breadth of Swindon.

All they need to do is to say the magic words 'condition' or 'mitigation money' to the planning committee and they will nod their heads in approval and say that this can be dealt with later.  If later ever comes...

In my experience over the last 2 years the only topics which appear to affect the level of attention shown to momentous decisions which affect large swathes of the population ... is the months of March and April ...or the lack of S106 money.

As to who influences the unelected public servants ..... all you need to know is that it isn't you..

The Swindon we live in and see developing before of us is a result of the quality and consideration shown by those in post to serve us.

It takes wisdom to know what you know and wisdom to know what you don't know and when to call in those who do. Often the people who do know will advise that evidence and research are very helpful when making decisions. Who knows it might even save a bit of money.