Topic: Should ASBO teenagers be named

[Richard Symonds]

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I believe that immigrants who commit crimes in our Country should be repatriated immediately and banned from our shores for life.  Why should we tolerate other countries' criminals?

This guy should be removed today before he costs us another penny in money or further grief to the law abiding majority who live here.

I do not apologise if this offends anyone because for the life of me I don't understand why it should.

[20Eyes]

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EU law prevents us from employing this kind of policy for criminals from the EU states.

And the way in which our judges have decided to deliberately misinterpret the Human Rights Act means criminals from other areas of the world are also largely protected and can remain in the UK after having committed their crimes.

Indeed, evidence has been found of the 'info packs' given to immigrants from abroad that point out that the best way of  quickly securing a right to remain in the UK is to be convicted of a crime here.

[Richard Symonds]

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Years ago I knew a group of immigration officers at Heathrow and they regularly gave back people they bounced back to the airlines to return them from whence they came.  These guys used to make the majority of their decisions within thirty minutes.

Sadly these are only memories but if action were taken quickly it could save us all a fortune.   

Did I hear yesterday that Yarl'swood in Bedfordshire was closing down.  I know a very happy lady who looks at it accross a field and has campaigned for years to achieve this after she witnessed it going up in flames costing £40m after being open for a mere six weeks.  It was alleged that two known terrorists escaped that night never to be recaptured but as you know that was always denied. 

[20Eyes]

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Did I hear yesterday that Yarl'swood in Bedfordshire was closing down.

Sort of.

Another misguided LibDem policy that they seem eerily pleased about imposing. Expect every would-be illegal immigrant/asylum seeker to now arrive with children in tow. Some of them may even be theirs.

[20Eyes]

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Oh well, that didn't last long:

A NOTORIOUS troublemaker has reappeared in Swindon.

A long-term ban is now being sought on troubled Somali man Abdi Muse, after he pleaded guilty to breaching his interim Anti-Social Behaviour Order by returning to Broadgreen, a district he is barred from.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/8919990.Troublemaker_reappears_in_Swindon/

The police appear 'happy' that he's broken his interim ASBO, by entering Broadgreen, because they now have a better case to arrange a full ASBO to stop him entering Broadgreen. They don't seem to notice that he clearly doesn't give a monkeys about ASBOs or their deluded belief that he might not simply do as he pleases.

[Mart]

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Yeah, but he's troubled.

Thorny subject culpability if you are troubled, I often wonder about the insanity defence, should you be punished as much as the sane man? The effect of your crime is the same, the suffering you inflict is the same.

I suppose if I went a bit doolally and did something stupid I would expect understanding, but if I was the victim of some herbert who had skipped their medication I might come over all Old Testament.

Genuinely vexed by the subject.

Back to the point, if he is'troubled' does an ASBO even register?

[20Eyes]

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Back to the point, if he is'troubled' does an ASBO even register?

Given the so-called consequences he's thus far faced for breaching the law and the various pointless bits of paper they've then waved in his face, I'd argue, 'no' - why would it?

I don't doubt that this man is 'troubled', but I also don't doubt he knows full well what he isn't supposed to being doing. He just knows full well that it doesn't make any difference what he does.

Surely this guy must be a prime example of an individual who should be deported? We know exactly where he's from and he's done nothing but be a law-breaking blight on the community that welcomed him since he arrived here.

[Muggins]

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Are you getting muddled between being a 'trouble maker' and being 'troubled'. I'm a bit troubled at present.  But I don't walk the streets at night trying to make a nuisance of myself.

As to the interim and full ASBO, it's not the Police fault that that is the way the law is written.  We all should be given a chance to stop what we are doing before the full force of the law comes down on us.

An interim ASBO has probably been used in the past to take a problem past it's juvenile stage into an adult one when the law kicks in in a grown up criminal way.  I.e. better that it going on to a full ASBO, they get done for grown up stuff with longer, harsher sentences etc.

There is quite a lot of difference between the interim, and the full ASBO  they soon find out that difference, a few of them have tried it out and found out.  Not that many! 

[20Eyes]

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We all should be given a chance to stop what we are doing before the full force of the law comes down on us.

I agree. I reckon 3 chances is fair.

But 31 chances in less than a year seems, how can I put it...  ridiculous.

He had 31 arrests to his name in just 11 months, until he was jailed in December for common assault and abusive behaviour.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/8891587.Crime_falls_by_47_per_cent_in_man___s_absence/

Why the system allows this man to continually and repeatedly blight other people's lives is beyond me. He needs to be put in prison for a significant number of years.

Everyone seems collectively over the moon that he'd left to go and live in Bristol (nice way to simply move the problem elsewhere) but, as I suspected, he's obviously not been tolerated quite so accommodatingly down there, so within three weeks he's back in Swindon causing problems and breaking the pointless interim ASBO (which has obviously failed).

[Muggins]

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Quite right 20, why if he is a grown up and into big boy crime, is he being given an ASBO?  seems to me that as he was arrested and apparently ot charged then he is also wasting Police time.

[20Eyes]

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What an absolute farce. Watching this video is like a Monty Python sketch or something:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12813963

A man who has spent eight years in and out of prison for repeatedly defying an anti-social behaviour order (Asbo) is seeking to have it overturned.

Simon Frodsham made his 44th appearance in court on Monday for breaching the order, which has banned him from the Lytham St Annes area since 2003.

But he says the Asbo breaches his civil rights and is applying to Blackpool Magistrates' Court to have it lifted.

His solicitor estimates that enforcing the Asbo has cost taxpayers about £2m.

[Muggins]

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Something wrong here, farily sure that ASBO's have not been about as long as 2003.

[Alligator]

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Something wrong here, farily sure that ASBO's have not been about as long as 2003.

Muggins, according to Wikipedia, "ASBOs were first introduced in England, Scotland and Wales by the Crime and Disorder Act 1998."  but later legislation (2003) strengthened them further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Social_Behaviour_Order

[20Eyes]

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Something wrong here, farily sure that ASBO's have not been about as long as 2003.

That was the only part you found a bit questionable??

[Muggins]

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20, No 'course not,  just wondered how he had got an ASBO so long ago.   Just had a quick swat up and had forgotten what small but totally annoying actions you could get an ASBO for. I thought I must have nodded off for a few years.

I think they really began to bite here

http://www.csas.org.uk/Respect%20Agenda

Certainly it was after this time that we attended conferences and meetings about ASBO's and we actually saw them start to work around here.

I know we felt that there was a lot of work that had to be done between the then new Crime and Disorder Act and the mind set of the Police and the other partnerships they had to forge to be effective.  If I remember rightly a few things were tested out and found to be wanting before  they became more routine.  I can't account for every one, but they certainly seem to do the trick around here after 2005, although it's not a quick procedure by any means. 

[Muggins]

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A reminder of ASBO's

The Purpose of an ASBO
According to the United Kingdom's Home Office web site, ASBOs are issued against an individual for a minimum of two years. The order can be extended if need be. The purpose of the order is "to protect specific victims, neighbours, or even whole communities from behaviour that has frightened or intimidated them, or damaged their quality of life."

Because anti-social behaviour as the law is written is a violation of civil order, not a violation of a criminal statute, there is no criminal record for those who obey the order. Disobeying the restrictions set out in the order is a crime. Individuals over 10 years old who violate an anti-social behaviour order can face a fine and/or a penalty of up to five years in prison.

Behaviours Deemed Anti-Social
Anti-social behaviour orders can be issued for a wide range of behaviours. The behaviour itself may not be illegal. An order is issued if the behaviour is deemed to have a significant negative impact on another person or on the community. ASBOs can be issued for spitting, intimidation, fare jumping, begging, stealing, mugging or shoplifting, abandoning cars in public places, drunken behavior in public, illegal trash dumping, not cleaning up after your pet, vandalism, noise pollution or performing in a public place for tips without a license.

How Orders Are Issued
Before an order is issued victims of anti-social behaviour must contact their local anti-social behaviour team, neighborhood policing team or local police station directly and file a complaint. Evidence has to show the behaviour is occurring and is having a negative impact. Police sometimes ask a complainant to keep a diary recording specifies of the accused person's behavior. All complaints are kept confidential.

The evidence is presented in civil court. If the presiding judge issues the order there are a variety of avenues open to the police to persuade the offending individual to cease the anti-social behaviour



Read more: Introduction to ASBO | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5465207_introduction-asbo.html#ixzz1HL2S9AJU

[20Eyes]

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Disobeying the restrictions set out in the order is a crime. Individuals over 10 years old who violate an anti-social behaviour order can face a fine and/or a penalty of up to five years in prison.

And according to official figures, a pathetic 2% of those who break their ASBOs actually face a prison sentence and yet over half of all ASBOs issued are broken, usually repeatedly.

It brings to mind the knife crime statistics that were issued a few weeks ago - the coalition is as bad as Labour on this, they must reform the judiciary, urgently. As far as I'm concerned, judges/magistrates who flout sentencing guidelines are really no different to criminals who break the law:

Only one in five people caught carrying a knife is being jailed, figures show.

The number of offenders put behind bars fell from almost 1,600 two years ago to a little over 1,000 in the final three months of last year, despite guidelines saying the starting point for the lowest level of knife possession should be 12 weeks in jail.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5h11JMl5I_Y9Cab6f46i16BCSXVrg?docId=N0277991299158584195A

[Muggins]

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I would have thought that anyone carrying a knife was well out of the range of ASBO's and well into grown up crime.
We would all agree that knife carrying is bad, but using is a whole lot worse.

[20Eyes]

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I would have thought that anyone carrying a knife was well out of the range of ASBO's and well into grown up crime.
We would all agree that knife carrying is bad, but using is a whole lot worse.

And you'd be right. The Sentencing Guidelines are very clear... it's just that magistrates and judges routinely ignore their own rules, with impunity.

[Muggins]

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I can't say that, on account of I have never studied the subject, nor have I any experience of it.  I proabably wouldn't make sweeping statement if I had.  Surely they are not all bad?

Who is it that judges the judges?  Wher eis the scrutiny?  When and to whom do you make a complaint?  there must be some sort of Ofjudge.