Poll

Do you think people handed an ASBO should be named

Yes
7 (43.8%)
No
2 (12.5%)
I think anyone convicted of a crime should expect to be named
7 (43.8%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: January 08, 2011, 10:54:13 AM

Author Topic: Should ASBO teenagers be named  (Read 22979 times)

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Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #100 on: March 22, 2011, 05:07:21 PM »
I can't say that, on account of I have never studied the subject, nor have I any experience of it.  I proabably wouldn't make sweeping statement if I had.  Surely they are not all bad?

I'm sure they're not all bad, just a large percentage of them who ignore their own guidelines.

Who is it that judges the judges?  Wher eis the scrutiny? 

Precisely. Basically, they're not monitored and there is no scrutiny unless somebody demands a decision is looked into - which, of course, hardly ever happens - mainly because hardly anyone ever knows about the majority of them.

When and to whom do you make a complaint?  there must be some sort of Ofjudge.

All anyone can do is make a representation that a judge has made an unduly lenient, or harsh, sentence. It then may or may not be looked into.

Basically, they are virtually unaccountable. The only people who ever do judge judges are, other judges. It's a terrible system that is set up to protect itself.
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Offline Chav

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #101 on: March 22, 2011, 06:41:57 PM »
Breaches of ASBO's, Injuctions and Undertakings are usually dealt with if enough people come forward and are prepared to give evidence concerning the breach.

Most ASBO's, injunctions and undertakings come with conditions.
ASBO's and injuctions if breached - usually with power of arrest and undertakings if breached would literally be a breach of Court and come with a hefty fine or prison sentence.

I do understand why people are worried about coming forward and giving evidence in court as it is not a nice experience and can be very intimidating especially if you are just one witness on your own giving evidence against a group of Anti- Social people be they youths or adults, male or female because no one else will come forward for being too petrified to do so.
I know this because I have experienced it.
It was not not nice, but I would do it again if I had to.

I bear no animosity or grudges and I believe in second chances, and some people do learn by it. However there are those who do not and sometimes people do cross a line where it is difficult to do anything to pull them back from taking the wrong path for most of their lives.
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #102 on: March 22, 2011, 07:00:20 PM »
ASBO's and injuctions if breached - usually with power of arrest and undertakings if breached would literally be a breach of Court and come with a hefty fine or prison sentence.

Why do people keep saying this when the factual, documented evidence show it's simply not the case?

Only 2% of those who breach their ASBOs ever receive a custodial sentence. That percentage is so low as to make such 'threats' completely laughable, hence the reason the majority of ASBOs are broken.

Hardly anyone who breaches an ASBO gets a 'hefty fine' because the people concerned rarely have any money with which to pay any fine they might receive.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Chav

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #103 on: March 22, 2011, 07:16:45 PM »
ASBO's and injuctions if breached - usually with power of arrest and undertakings if breached would literally be a breach of Court and come with a hefty fine or prison sentence.

Why do people keep saying this when the factual, documented evidence show it's simply not the case?

Only 2% of those who breach their ASBOs ever receive a custodial sentence. That percentage is so low as to make such 'threats' completely laughable, hence the reason the majority of ASBOs are broken.

Hardly anyone who breaches an ASBO gets a 'hefty fine' because the people concerned rarely have any money with which to pay any fine they might receive.

I hear what you are saying 20 and yes sometimes it may not be the case, but then again sometimes it is the case !

Would you give evidence in court 20' against an ASBO breacher ?
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #104 on: March 22, 2011, 07:36:06 PM »
I hear what you are saying 20 and yes sometimes it may not be the case, but then again sometimes it is the case !

A 98% chance of not going to prison is pretty good odds, especially for those who've already shown they're more than happy to simply do as they please.

Would you give evidence in court 20' against an ASBO breacher ?

I don't see why not, other than that the evidence shows it's almost pointless because the judges always come down on the side of the criminal in any case. If Mr Field was hearing the case, I really don't think I'd bother wasting my time as he'd have already made up his mind not to do anything about the breach.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Chav

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #105 on: March 22, 2011, 08:10:43 PM »
I hear what you are saying 20 and yes sometimes it may not be the case, but then again sometimes it is the case !

A 98% chance of not going to prison is pretty good odds, especially for those who've already shown they're more than happy to simply do as they please.

Would you give evidence in court 20' against an ASBO breacher ?

I don't see why not, other than that the evidence shows it's almost pointless because the judges always come down on the side of the criminal in any case. If Mr Field was hearing the case, I really don't think I'd bother wasting my time as he'd have already made up his mind not to do anything about the breach.

Not all Judges are the same 20  :)

If you are having trouble where you live - have you:
* contacted your neighbourhood policing team ?
* Emailed the ASB team at the Borough ?
* Emailed your local ward Cllr(s)
* Emailed the Borough Solicitor
Copy everyone in stating facts, the date, the time of the ASB etc.
Keep a folder with all the emails that you send and recieve re: ASB , keeping a paper trail is vitally important.

Have you heard of Street Watch ?  www.street-watch.org.uk



I would suggest
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #106 on: March 22, 2011, 08:39:43 PM »
Not all Judges are the same 20  :)

Maybe not, but, unfortunately, the judge who oversees the majority of cases in Swindon is a problem. His peers in the town really aren't much better at all.

If you are having trouble where you live - have you:

There's always trouble where I live, it's par for the course. I don't have a problem with the police, who almost always do a fine job. My problem is with the judges who then allow the arrested and convicted criminals to walk free to reoffend. Until that stops, all other crime prevention measures are simply playing around the edges.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Chav

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #107 on: March 22, 2011, 08:52:02 PM »
Not all Judges are the same 20  :)

Maybe not, but, unfortunately, the judge who oversees the majority of cases in Swindon is a problem. His peers in the town really aren't much better at all.

If you are having trouble where you live - have you:

There's always trouble where I live, it's par for the course. I don't have a problem with the police, who almost always do a fine job. My problem is with the judges who then allow the arrested and convicted criminals to walk free to reoffend. Until that stops, all other crime prevention measures are simply playing around the edges.

20' have you written to the 'said Judge', to say how you feel and how this is affecting you ?
I would - a Judge will have a snap shot of the offender , but if you are living a life of hell everyday because of a serial offender/ASBO'er then you need to show them the impact it is having on your life.

This is where being a witness is important and giving evidence in front of the offender and the Judge as this is an opportunity to show exactly how the behaviour of the offender is affecting not only your life, but that of your family.

Right - off to bed now 20', but I do understand how you feel and believe me the frustration it causes also has an impact on ones well-being.

Chav  :wink:
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #108 on: March 23, 2011, 09:08:12 AM »
20 "Only 2% of those who breach their ASBOs ever receive a custodial sentence."

Thats because mostly (not always) what the ASBO offender does is not grown up crime, it's just a  blasted nuisance.  Sometimes the ultimate punishment is that the family of the offender lose their home, with no chance of getting another rented from any authority.  Having deemed to behave in a way that they deliberately made themsleves homeless.

I didn't expect that the kids outside my house throwing mud at my house and sitting on my front wall swearing and catcalling and generally making a nuisance of themselves, would get a custodial sentence, neither would I have wanted them to. I just wanted them to stop.

Luckily for me the street was 'all in it together' and the combined proof of harassment and aggravation built up and after them ignoring several methods to bring them into the 'decent human being' sector, the inevitable happened and their family lost their home and were banned from the area.   

ASBO's are to tackle that low level crime which intruded into our daily lifes, not to tackle real grown up crime that would get them custodial sentences, that was already in place, not covering the really young ages of some of the pests. 

At first the youths did try to push the boundaries, less so now, when they realised that there is no long term hiding place.  It's getting into the youth culture (and theri families) that they might as well stump up sooner into the process.  Telling them that ASBO's don't work is encouraging them to kick against them, when eventually the ASBO will stop their behaviour. Unless of course they get into the big boy crime before then.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #109 on: March 23, 2011, 10:10:43 AM »
20 "Only 2% of those who breach their ASBOs ever receive a custodial sentence."

Thats because mostly (not always) what the ASBO offender does is not grown up crime, it's just a  blasted nuisance.

The behaviour that generates the ASBO may just be 'annoying', but the behaviour that breaches that ASBO becomes a criminal offence in that breaching the ASBO is a criminal offence - and one that is supposed to attract either a significant fine or a custodial sentence.

If you are aware that 98% of breaches don't result in a custodial sentence, where's the incentive not to breach it? Get another ASBO on top of the one you've already got and then breached? It reminds me of when judges hand people who've been found guilty of driving while banned another driving ban... er, hello?
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Dougal

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #110 on: March 26, 2011, 07:59:55 AM »

Admittedly, I don't know what Talk Swindon's site visitor statistics are


According to the more stats page, just over 100 thousand page views so far this month and just shy of 160 thousand page views last month. I know some of those will be search engine bots and the like, but I think it still indicates a fairly substantial readership.


Administrator Comment Site visits by bots and spiders are routinely excluded from those statistics although every once in a while a new type of bot or spider is released into the wild and TS will be briefly deluged.

We're quite good at keeping them under control usually.
www.talkswindon.org is a venue, not a person or political entity. As such, it hopes to encourage input and discussion on any topic, from all walks of Swindon life.   

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #111 on: June 07, 2011, 12:35:18 PM »
Here's dear old Abdi Muse again. Getting an ASBO again. For the same thing again. Only, this time, the ASBO banning him from entering Broad Green contains a specific clause allowing him to enter Broad Green:

Quote
Abdi Muse, 45, has been barred from possessing any alcohol in any public place in Swindon, and from entering the Broadgreen area at all.

But after hearing all the arguments, magistrate David Rogers agreed to grant the order – but amended it so Muse can access the drop-in facility in Carfax Street and the bus station, both of which are in Broad Green.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9068557.Man_banned_from_Broadgreen_area/


The word 'farce' just isn't good enough anymore.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Muggins

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #112 on: June 07, 2011, 03:49:47 PM »
What else would you expect to happen to him 20? - it looks like he's a blessed nuisance.

Should he be slapped in jail at Her Majesty's pleasure?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2011, 04:02:29 PM »
What else would you expect to happen to him 20? - it looks like he's a blessed nuisance.


So much of a nuisance that they've again issued an ASBO to stop him entering Broadgreen, just like the last ASBO they gave him in December 2010 - which he broke, apart from the fact that, this time, his ASBO specifically allows him to enter Broadgreen.

Should he be slapped in jail at Her Majesty's pleasure?


As he clearly very much intends to continue hanging around Broadgreen (and will definitely do so seeing as he's allowed to go into Broadgreen under his ASBO of not going into Broadgreen) and that this is the result of him not being in Broadgreen:

Quote
Crime falls by 47 per cent in man’s absence
9:40pm Friday 4th March 2011

ANTI-SOCIAL behaviour has halved in one part of the town centre – thanks to the departure of a single man

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/8891587.Crime_falls_by_47_per_cent_in_man___s_absence/


I would have thought the answer to that particular question would be obvious.

Given activities of late, in that area, it really wouldn't surprise me to pick up the Adver one day to find this chap's been killed by someone who's simply had enough of him. And then it'll be the usual "How could we have known?" hand-wringing by the authorities.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline itspavagain

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Re: Should ASBO teenagers be named
« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2011, 04:23:49 PM »
If he now lives in Bristol can't we ban him from entering Swindon?